Author Topic: Tentmaker Friends  (Read 975 times)

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Paul Hazelwood

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Tentmaker Friends
« on: October 27, 2008, 05:09:26 PM »


We are all in this journey together and I hate seeing a topic get locked because of bad feelings and I am not concerned with anyone specifically, you must trust this.

It happens and I can go down that path myself at times and it is never something I like, even the times when I am so sure I am right. 


I am not even sure how this post will come across, but I will not mention names because at time I myself have to stand and realize that something I did was not in the spirit of the Love I want to share with others.

No one needs to reply to this to defend anything,  just hear me out.

 Lets remember where we have been and where we are going.  Lets realize that we all have different paths and come from different backgrounds and no matter what, we all have been shaped differently by the life we have. 

Lets see the Good Shepherd before us, lets discuss and even challenge one anothers points in the spirit of Growth knowing that we are to sharpen one another as iron, but it is God who ultimatly grinds the edge sharp. 

Lets watch one another grow and when we disagree realize that we ALL primarily want to seek the depths of our LORD and Savior, because folks, we have been given a gift and that is the insight that Jesus really will accomplish his promise.  Lets explore the depths of that gift together and shine the light.



Offline Taffy

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Re: Tentmaker Friends
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2008, 05:19:22 PM »
Hi Paul.

It was I who locked the thread JUST for now....Martin can decide what happens from therein.

Taffy

Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Tentmaker Friends
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2008, 05:29:08 PM »
Hi Paul.

It was I who locked the thread JUST for now....Martin can decide what happens from therein.

Taffy




Hi taffy,  I understand, and really the thread being locked is not what burdened my heart.  I did not want to come across as if I was harsh either, I am sort of emotional today I guess from some personal things this weekend.

I guess I was just sad to see the bad feelings and it reminded me of somethings that I have been burdened with.   I hope I did not hurt anyone feelings by posting that.

Offline Taffy

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Re: Tentmaker Friends
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2008, 05:38:03 PM »
Hi Paul.

It was I who locked the thread JUST for now....Martin can decide what happens from therein.

Taffy





Hi taffy,  I understand, and really the thread being locked is not what burdened my heart.  I did not want to come across as if I was harsh either, I am sort of emotional today I guess from some personal things this weekend.

I guess I was just sad to see the bad feelings and it reminded me of somethings that I have been burdened with.   I hope I did not hurt anyone feelings by posting that.


No worries Paul...Hoping things your end improve somewhat for you. :icon_flower:

Blessings
Taffy
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline studier

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Re: Tentmaker Friends
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2008, 07:33:00 PM »
Sometimes I get fed up with certain reasonings and unfortunately, my patience is thin with much of what I see these days being discussed as truth but much of it just opinion. I am probably jaded to the forum experience after years of dealing with it and hurting people instead of helping them.  As a result of this bitterness I realize I am nothing. My levels of patience for foolishness is gone and now I am the fool instead of walking away, making note of what most probably is only a small indiscretion and make it a mountain. UR has been the most frustrating of any point of my walk, personally and spiritually.

The revelation of such doctrine, has destroyed my friends, and my family, and on top of this, isolated us from everything. We cannot even walk into a church to make new friends, because we cannot stand the religious nature of their doctrine which really has no hope. At the same time, I cannot walk into a Unitarian Church and find anything of value in worshiping a new age philosophy next to a Egyptian Pharaoh worshiper next to a Christian, the anything goes church. What good has this UR movement actually done? There are just as many church splits, personality conflicts, podium wars among those who claim to be UR as there are ET and annihilationist denominations. The biggest issue I find with UR is the lack of standards and structure, which brings into confusion our actual hope for anything in this life God has given us.

So my hurt and desperation in my personal life concerning the above issue, has turned into bitterness which does need criticism to remove, but much prayer. I am sorry to those who I have hurt, and do hurt, who I offended and do offend. In truth, I don't know what to do. I end up hurting those I much love the most and I am broken. I guess I am very emotional this weekend also over a few things I don't want to share with the public of this forum, I am wrong to react the way I did and do to certain individuals because there is a familiarity there and still a hurt that has not yet been healed.

Sorry Paul, if my actions caused you burden. Sorry WillieH, for jumping over you for critisizing my lack of patience (after I did say I was short on it though), Pneuma and Molly for jumping down you both for not listening when it is obvious that though I disagree with your positions, I should not be so quick to evil myself.

Take care guys, I am not doing well.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2008, 07:37:34 PM by SOtW »

Offline Taffy

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Re: Tentmaker Friends
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2008, 07:50:08 PM »
Hi Craig,

It was only a few moments back ,I was discussing with a Fellow member you sound VERY MUCH at the END of your Tether...and this post clarifies why...

 I went throu similar experiences some yrs back...then realised the UNDERSTANDING of UR is not a PRE-requiste to salvation, UR can become just another Religion , if you allow it....It took me BACK to the CORE,..and thats where I know stay Bro,....Blessed are THOSE who UNDERSTAND  salvation for all, but its NOT for all to see it.

Share IN HIM who is salvation ..suffer those who are yet to understand the Areas which see ,and Blame them NOT.

Knowledge ,Ive learnt DOESNT come for free , it does cause us to suffer.......

Maybe Take a Break and Refocus Craig..and see where that LEADS YOU.....

mY Prayers be with you.
Taffy


Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Tentmaker Friends
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2008, 07:56:43 PM »


Craig,  its not an ok thing when your not doing well,  but it is ok when we come together as friends and in love and put the things aside that can cause more things to snowball and go wrong and pray for each other in the spirit of growth and hope.

I accept the apology that you have made towards me, but I do want to make it clear that it is exactly your words that you have spoken that have caused me to be "GLAD" that I was burdened bro.

Quote

Take care guys, I am not doing well.


Craig, I love ya man, and I love everyone else here and we can love one another and still things like this can happen.  We can love and disagree and we can come back together and work on sorting out those wounds when that happens.

I don't always know how to do that, nor can I do that for anyone else as much as I wish I could, but I do know that I used to remain silent and things crumbled around in my sight and I will no longer do that.   So, I was never upset "at" anyone over this.  I felt a burden that we have people here that need prayer and answers and we cannot always do it alone.

I'm praying for you Craig, I pray for everyone.  not that anyone does any certain thing in the forum,  but that our broken hearts are healed.



pneuma

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Re: Tentmaker Friends
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2008, 08:01:22 PM »
Hi Craig,

It was only a few moments back ,I was discussing with a Fellow member you sound VERY MUCH at the END of your Tether...and this post clarifies why...

 I went throu similar experiences some yrs back...then realised the UNDERSTANDING of UR is not a PRE-requiste to salvation, UR can become just another Religion , if you allow it....It took me BACK to the CORE,..and thats where I know stay Bro,....Blessed are THOSE who UNDERSTAND  salvation for all, but its NOT for all to see it.

Share IN HIM who is salvation ..suffer those who are yet to understand the Areas which see ,and Blame them NOT.

Knowledge ,Ive learnt DOESNT come for free , it does cause us to suffer.......

Maybe Take a Break and Refocus Craig..and see where that LEADS YOU.....

mY Prayers be with you.
Taffy





 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

pneuma

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Re: Tentmaker Friends
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2008, 08:35:16 PM »

Quote
I am wrong to react the way I did and do to certain individuals because there is a familiarity there and still a hurt that has not yet been healed.


70 times 7, we are to forgive 70 times 7

Not only must we forgive others that much we must forgive ourselves that much also

Hard to do sometimes ain't it bro?




Offline Molly

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Re: Tentmaker Friends
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2008, 10:42:50 PM »
Quote from: Craig
The revelation of such doctrine, has destroyed my friends, and my family, and on top of this, isolated us from everything. We cannot even walk into a church to make new friends, ...


Hey, Craig--similar things are happening in my life, too,--maybe for different reasons on the surface--but I am becoming increasingly more isolated from people as I get closer to God.  That really sort of seems like a contradiction, but, I interprete it as God setting us apart for himself.  I know for me, he won't let me rely on one other person, family or friends, just himself.  I enjoy this board and the people on it, but, even here, God won't allow me to get too cozy. 

I think it's an end time thing, Craig.  I think he is in the process of creating a bride without spot.  But, I understand how difficult it can be.  Hang in there.



27That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

--Eph 5

« Last Edit: October 27, 2008, 10:54:12 PM by Molly »

Offline rosered

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Re: Tentmaker Friends
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2008, 11:59:18 PM »
 

  Wow  :HeartThrob:, good words Paul and Taffy 
 thanks ,  Tffy  we do suffer with Knowledge  dont we?!! 
 great point taken  :icon_flower:
 
  I  do struggle with communicating
  God knows this is true  ... :msealed:
  and Graham    has been a  big help for me in this area 
 I so hope that we will come together in the Love of God , and   glorify God in  this place
   thanks love rose
« Last Edit: October 28, 2008, 12:00:51 AM by rosered »

Offline jabcat

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Re: Tentmaker Friends
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2008, 12:52:00 AM »
Guilty myself, so I'll say it.  It's reminders for me, and if anyone else gets anything out of it, great.

When I just

1.)"KNOW" that I'm the one that's right and unwilling to bend or yield,   ("Fail")
2.) State it in those terms to others, and without gentleness and love,   ("Fail")
3.) It just follows that it will sound and feel like criticizing, judging, being puffed up, "thinking more of myself than I ought"...    ("Fail")   and I
4.) Think of the scripture that states "take heed, lest you fall".   

I believe that's how God teaches me, by humbling me sometimes with my own faults and failures.  He wants me to see those, not just gloss them over and move on, having learned nothing.  Paul was sent "a messenger of the Lord to buffet' him.  It was to teach him he was nothing without God and that only God's grace was sufficient.  Only God's grace.  And that is humbling.

I fail, I get angry, I can be extremely sarcastic, and I have to fight all that.  I often fail, and I will fail again.  But hopefully I will learn from it and continue to grow in my ability to love others, treat them with gentleness and respect, accept that they may have a point for ME to think about, not just blatantly, blindly insist that I'm right.  I'm very good at doing that.  Very slowly (hopefully, without too many more "knock-downs") God is working a little more patience, and hopefully love and respect for others...but I'm still bad at it.  However, in us all He is working a work, He disciplines us as sons, and CHRIST IN YOU/ME THE HOPE OF GLORY.

God's blessing, James.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2008, 01:01:05 AM by jabcat »
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline studier

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Re: Tentmaker Friends
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2008, 01:39:19 AM »
Regardless of everything, speaking lies with gentleness and love is does not make the lies true.

Offline rosered

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Re: Tentmaker Friends
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2008, 01:50:53 AM »
     
 
  please tell us what the lie is Craig ?, I am all ears 
 thanks  bro 

Offline studier

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Re: Tentmaker Friends
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2008, 04:29:56 AM »
  please tell us what the lie is Craig ?, I am all ears 
 thanks  bro 

The lie is that something spoke in love and gentleness is truth. A lie spoke in love, is still a lie.

Offline rosered

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Re: Tentmaker Friends
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2008, 05:02:06 AM »
  please tell us what the lie is Craig ?, I am all ears 
 thanks  bro 

The lie is that something spoke in love and gentleness is truth. A lie spoke in love, is still a lie.

 yep thats true , no one wants to be a liar    Craig , no one
 
  we want to  be Truthful with one another   :thumbsup:
and not decive our own hearts  , I think  some folks get burned out  and   the WORD OF GOD does not seem to hold the value  that it first did at one time when it was new
    Sort of  do your first works over  because  you have left your first love [HIM THE LORD ] ......

 
   18There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear.
 
 For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
 
 
19 We love because he first loved us.

  20 If anyone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar;

 
  for he who does not love his brother

  whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.

 
 21And this commandment we have from him:

 whoever loves God must also love his brother
 
 GOD BLESS ...

Offline willieH

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Re: Tentmaker Friends
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2008, 05:26:39 AM »
willieH: Hi Craig... :hithere:

Sometimes I get fed up with certain reasonings and unfortunately, my patience is thin with much of what I see these days being discussed as truth but much of it just opinion. I am probably jaded to the forum experience after years of dealing with it and hurting people instead of helping them.  As a result of this bitterness I realize I am nothing. My levels of patience for foolishness is gone and now I am the fool instead of walking away, making note of what most probably is only a small indiscretion and make it a mountain. UR has been the most frustrating of any point of my walk, personally and spiritually.

The revelation of such doctrine, has destroyed my friends, and my family, and on top of this, isolated us from everything. We cannot even walk into a church to make new friends, because we cannot stand the religious nature of their doctrine which really has no hope. At the same time, I cannot walk into a Unitarian Church and find anything of value in worshiping a new age philosophy next to a Egyptian Pharaoh worshiper next to a Christian, the anything goes church. What good has this UR movement actually done? There are just as many church splits, personality conflicts, podium wars among those who claim to be UR as there are ET and annihilationist denominations. The biggest issue I find with UR is the lack of standards and structure, which brings into confusion our actual hope for anything in this life God has given us.

So my hurt and desperation in my personal life concerning the above issue, has turned into bitterness which does need criticism to remove, but much prayer. I am sorry to those who I have hurt, and do hurt, who I offended and do offend. In truth, I don't know what to do. I end up hurting those I much love the most and I am broken. I guess I am very emotional this weekend also over a few things I don't want to share with the public of this forum, I am wrong to react the way I did and do to certain individuals because there is a familiarity there and still a hurt that has not yet been healed.

Sorry Paul, if my actions caused you burden. Sorry WillieH, for jumping over you for critisizing my lack of patience (after I did say I was short on it though), Pneuma and Molly for jumping down you both for not listening when it is obvious that though I disagree with your positions, I should not be so quick to evil myself.

Take care guys, I am not doing well.

We all LOVE you brother... that is what LIFE is all about!  We shall bump heads here & there... but YOU are a PRECIOUS and VERY IMPORTANT Son of YHVH... Keep that in mind in your present trials...

Not only that, but YOU are of the most SPIRITUALLY educated members on this forum!  :teaching:

I commend you MUCH, for your humility in this post bro...  :friendstu:  MUCH!

And I can certainly relate to the isolations that knowing the truth of UR brings...

In that isolation though, we join our Savior... and His Disciples... in the individual isolations they endured within their lifetimes!  :grouppray:

Hang in there brother... You are needed amongst us...


peacE...
willieH  :icon_king:

Offline rosered

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Re: Tentmaker Friends
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2008, 05:40:10 AM »
5   Apologetics - Universal Reconciliation / Apologetic Support / Re: Did "Holy Angels" ever fall apology. 
 
  Hi Willie
  We do love  Craig and thats no lie ..... 
 :ilu:
  He even made a  post of  apology .it is very thoughtful
  Did  ya see it yet WillieH ?
 
   Cheerio  :angel5:   
 
« Last Edit: October 28, 2008, 05:42:12 AM by rosered »

Offline Pierac

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Re: Tentmaker Friends
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2008, 06:16:30 AM »
Sometimes I get fed up with certain reasonings and unfortunately, my patience is thin with much of what I see these days being discussed as truth but much of it just opinion. I am probably jaded to the forum experience after years of dealing with it and hurting people instead of helping them.  As a result of this bitterness I realize I am nothing. My levels of patience for foolishness is gone and now I am the fool instead of walking away, making note of what most probably is only a small indiscretion and make it a mountain. UR has been the most frustrating of any point of my walk, personally and spiritually.

The revelation of such doctrine, has destroyed my friends, and my family, and on top of this, isolated us from everything. We cannot even walk into a church to make new friends, because we cannot stand the religious nature of their doctrine which really has no hope. At the same time, I cannot walk into a Unitarian Church and find anything of value in worshiping a new age philosophy next to a Egyptian Pharaoh worshiper next to a Christian, the anything goes church. What good has this UR movement actually done? There are just as many church splits, personality conflicts, podium wars among those who claim to be UR as there are ET and annihilationist denominations. The biggest issue I find with UR is the lack of standards and structure, which brings into confusion our actual hope for anything in this life God has given us.

So my hurt and desperation in my personal life concerning the above issue, has turned into bitterness which does need criticism to remove, but much prayer. I am sorry to those who I have hurt, and do hurt, who I offended and do offend. In truth, I don't know what to do. I end up hurting those I much love the most and I am broken. I guess I am very emotional this weekend also over a few things I don't want to share with the public of this forum, I am wrong to react the way I did and do to certain individuals because there is a familiarity there and still a hurt that has not yet been healed.

Sorry Paul, if my actions caused you burden. Sorry WillieH, for jumping over you for critisizing my lack of patience (after I did say I was short on it though), Pneuma and Molly for jumping down you both for not listening when it is obvious that though I disagree with your positions, I should not be so quick to evil myself.

Take care guys, I am not doing well.

Amen

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Tentmaker Friends
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2008, 10:25:24 AM »
Sometimes I get fed up with certain reasonings and unfortunately, my patience is thin with much of what I see these days being discussed as truth but much of it just opinion. I am probably jaded to the forum experience after years of dealing with it and hurting people instead of helping them. 

I for one would hate to see you leave.
I always liked your direct to-the-point style of writing.

I think head on collisions are a good sign. It means there are real discussions. The forum lives. People think about their views.
Yeah, personally I prefer such clashes above sneaky attacks and answering with a cut and paste on some word that not really had any relavance in a discussion but happens to be part of the pet doctrine of the replier.

Craig, put on your running shoes. Start running until it gets black before your eyes and run a few extra miles.
Great way of flushing your body. (Great to kill flue and other little illness too...)

 :Urock:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...