Author Topic: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All  (Read 5831 times)

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Gab

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #125 on: November 24, 2009, 03:08:24 PM »
You seem to forget about the people who WERE drawn to Jesus, Molly - the throngs who followed him and all the good works he did going about healing the sick everywhere he went.  Just because there were thugs along the way doesn't mean that everyone rejected his goodness. 

And, for that matter, the people who were drawn to Jesus were not exactly the sort one would expect.  Matthew was a tax collector; Paul was a Pharisee.  The ones with the most faith included in their ranks lepers and Roman soldiers.  Meanwhile, the ones receiving the lion's share of Jesus' criticism and rebukes, and the ones depicted as having the most evil hearts, were the most religious members of society.

I have often remarked about the striking similarities that I see between modern-day Christians and the Pharisees in Jesus' time.  The outcasts are now the "in" crowd.  If Jesus were here on Earth today, I do not believe that those he would rebuke are those who most think he would rebuke.

natcat86

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #126 on: November 24, 2009, 03:17:49 PM »
Those who persecuted Jesus the most were the "religious" ones. Maybe they weren't jealous, just worried they would be shown up by Jesus? Or maybe they were jealous but not of His relationship with Father but rather His relationship with people?


Offline Molly

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #127 on: November 24, 2009, 03:18:43 PM »
But in the end, they all turned on him--those he helped, the crowds who followed him through dusty streets hoping to see a miracle or hear a word, the high, the low, his friends, even Peter denied knowing him.


66And as Peter was beneath in the palace, there cometh one of the maids of the high priest:

 67And when she saw Peter warming himself, she looked upon him, and said, And thou also wast with Jesus of Nazareth.

 68But he denied, saying, I know not, neither understand I what thou sayest. And he went out into the porch; and the cock crew.


--Mark 14


noname

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #128 on: November 24, 2009, 03:19:57 PM »
I have often remarked about the striking similarities that I see between modern-day Christians and the Pharisees in Jesus' time.  The outcasts are now the "in" crowd.  If Jesus were here on Earth today, I do not believe that those he would rebuke are those who most think he would rebuke.

...and He would be a Palestinian from Gaza...

"Modern genetics testing has demonstrated that modern-day Palestinians have a direct genetic trail back to the biblical Israelites.

So here is the deal. Some of the people walking around Palestine, Gaza, and the West Bank are blood relatives of Jesus. Distant blood relatives, but still blood relatives. Given 2000 years, it is possible that the vast majority of present day Palestinians are remote relatives of Jesus."


full article here:
http://palestinian.ning.com/video/palestine-jesus-of-nazareth
« Last Edit: November 24, 2009, 03:34:28 PM by noname »

natcat86

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #129 on: November 24, 2009, 03:35:46 PM »
But in the end, they all turned on him--those he helped, the crowds who followed him through dusty streets hoping to see a miracle or hear a word, the high, the low, his friends, even Peter denied knowing him.


66And as Peter was beneath in the palace, there cometh one of the maids of the high priest:

 67And when she saw Peter warming himself, she looked upon him, and said, And thou also wast with Jesus of Nazareth.

 68But he denied, saying, I know not, neither understand I what thou sayest. And he went out into the porch; and the cock crew.


--Mark 14



I'd always just assumed it was the mob mentality that they turned against him, with all the fear of the Roman occupation I imagine that it would be easy to turn Him into an enemy. The Romans didn't hate Him because of Him being the Christ, but becuase they were following orders. But I haven't really thought about it before in much detail so will look back over all the scripture you have posted Molly!  :happygrin:

Offline Molly

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #130 on: November 24, 2009, 03:40:16 PM »
Quote from: Nat
I'd always just assumed it was the mob mentality that they turned against him,..

But isn't the mob mentality the flesh in action?  Or at least, our basest qualities?

Offline Taffy

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #131 on: November 24, 2009, 03:41:52 PM »
But in the end, they all turned on him--those he helped, the crowds who followed him through dusty streets hoping to see a miracle or hear a word, the high, the low, his friends, even Peter denied knowing him.


66And as Peter was beneath in the palace, there cometh one of the maids of the high priest:

 67And when she saw Peter warming himself, she looked upon him, and said, And thou also wast with Jesus of Nazareth.

 68But he denied, saying, I know not, neither understand I what thou sayest. And he went out into the porch; and the cock crew.


--Mark 14



I'd always just assumed it was the mob mentality that they turned against him, with all the fear of the Roman occupation I imagine that it would be easy to turn Him into an enemy. The Romans didn't hate Him because of Him being the Christ, but becuase they were following orders. But I haven't really thought about it before in much detail so will look back over all the scripture you have posted Molly!  :happygrin:
Hi Nat ..Im From Ross-On Wye In Gloucestershire..I dnt think we met :icon_flower:

These Scrips Testify , that Flesh is Willing BUT weak Indeed, For we are NOTHING, lest  we are Born of Him. :icon_flower:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

natcat86

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #132 on: November 24, 2009, 03:51:31 PM »
Hi Taffy!


Hi Nat ..Im From Ross-On Wye In Gloucestershire..I dnt think we met :icon_flower:

These Scrips Testify , that Flesh is Willing BUT weak Indeed, For we are NOTHING, lest  we are Born of Him. :icon_flower:

Hi Taffy! I'm from Coventry! Do you attend a UR church? I havent been able to find any!  :sigh:

Sorry thats off topic!

I was wondering if like anger and sexual desire, Jealousy is another emotion that can be righteous but can be mutated into a carnal emotion unless you are born of Him??

Offline Taffy

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #133 on: November 24, 2009, 04:33:24 PM »
Hi Taffy!


Hi Nat ..Im From Ross-On Wye In Gloucestershire..I dnt think we met :icon_flower:

These Scrips Testify , that Flesh is Willing BUT weak Indeed, For we are NOTHING, lest  we are Born of Him. :icon_flower:

Hi Taffy! I'm from Coventry! Do you attend a UR church? I havent been able to find any!  :sigh:

Sorry thats off topic!

I was wondering if like anger and sexual desire, Jealousy is another emotion that can be righteous but can be mutated into a carnal emotion unless you are born of Him??

Hi Nat

yeah saw you were from Coventry..not tooooooooo many miles away.

as for the later..we are given authority \ power to cast out Spirits[ those that Give Life too] such as envy, hatred, fear etc... and all those which dont align to HIS Will

A bird [spirit]may Nest in your Hair[thoughts] , but you dont have to keep it there :icon_flower:
« Last Edit: November 24, 2009, 04:36:33 PM by Taffy »
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline sparrow

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #134 on: November 25, 2009, 03:29:21 AM »
Quote from: Molly
First, it doesn't have to be literally murderous.  It just turns out that way a lot in the Bible.  For instance, Jesus on the cross--remember?  Also, Jesus tells us if you think it, it's as good as doing it.  So if you are thinking hateful, murderous thoughts about someone, it's as good as carrying out the act.


Finally, something I agree on Molly with.   A good example of this is those who are seething with hatred for President Obama and are praying for God or man or anyone to literally kill him.   Such people are walking in darkness, whether or not they are using the name of Jesus at the very same time.  In fact, to be doing such things while naming the name of Christ makes it even worse.

I've never been seriously persecuted for being a Christian.   However, if I went around trying to poke my beliefs down others throats, they very well might get sick of me in a hurry and if I were to think of that as being persecuted, I'd just be being dishonest with myself.   No one has the right to try to force with a hateful spirit the teachings of Christ on others.   People should be drawn to you because of goodness, not because of your railing against their sin.   It is astonishing how many "Christians" do that and then cry that they are being persecuted.

My two cents......

Anne


AMEN!!
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Gab

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #135 on: November 25, 2009, 03:36:02 AM »
But in the end, they all turned on him--those he helped, the crowds who followed him through dusty streets hoping to see a miracle or hear a word, the high, the low, his friends, even Peter denied knowing him.


66And as Peter was beneath in the palace, there cometh one of the maids of the high priest:

 67And when she saw Peter warming himself, she looked upon him, and said, And thou also wast with Jesus of Nazareth.

 68But he denied, saying, I know not, neither understand I what thou sayest. And he went out into the porch; and the cock crew.


--Mark 14

And yet, even as he was dying on the cross at Calvary, a criminal sentenced to death for his crimes had faith in him to the end:

"'Don't you fear God,' he said, 'since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.'

"Then he said, 'Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.'

"Jesus answered him, 'I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.'" (Luke 23:40-43)

For as we are told, "the first will be last, and the last will be first."

Offline sparrow

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #136 on: November 25, 2009, 03:53:53 AM »
You seem to forget about the people who WERE drawn to Jesus, Molly - the throngs who followed him and all the good works he did going about healing the sick everywhere he went.  Just because there were thugs along the way doesn't mean that everyone rejected his goodness.  

And, for that matter, the people who were drawn to Jesus were not exactly the sort one would expect.  Matthew was a tax collector; Paul was a Pharisee.  The ones with the most faith included in their ranks lepers and Roman soldiers.  Meanwhile, the ones receiving the lion's share of Jesus' criticism and rebukes, and the ones depicted as having the most evil hearts, were the most religious members of society.

I have often remarked about the striking similarities that I see between modern-day Christians and the Pharisees in Jesus' time.  The outcasts are now the "in" crowd.  If Jesus were here on Earth today, I do not believe that those he would rebuke are those who most think he would rebuke.

Exactly! I couldn't have said this better myself.


"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline sparrow

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #137 on: November 25, 2009, 03:59:50 AM »
Speaking of rooster's crowing...
I read this quote not too long ago and it stuck with me:
"The nearer beings are to God, the more humble they are;the further from Him, the prouder." Well, just something to ponder.  :HeartThrob:

"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline peacemaker

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #138 on: November 26, 2009, 08:22:46 AM »
Speaking of rooster's crowing...

"The nearer beings are to God, the more humble they are; the further from Him, the prouder."

Self preservation leads to denial.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #139 on: November 26, 2009, 05:55:34 PM »
Hey jab, I just have an issue with the whole idea of provoking others to jealousy.
That is something that needs to be ERADICATED from us, not nurtured.
Despite what verses say, I just can't go along with it.
In my heart, it is wrong.

It is not love.

Let people wonder and be curious about the peace in my heart, and let people wonder how I may be making it through a hard time without getting angry or resentful or full of rage. Let people wonder about my PEACE and be drawn to God's love that is INSIDE of me. But I just cannot nurture the idea of "provoking others to jealousy". Maybe this is something for others. But not for me. Jealousy is ugly.
YEARNING to have peace. YEARNING to have love. I can understand.
Jealousy is ugly resentment.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this topic, because apparently I feel very strongly.
Unless someone wants to try to explain it in another way that makes sense to my heart and my spirt.

peace.

Sparrow,
We need faith to follow the Lord wherever He leads, even up the mountainside to sacrifice our own child, through faith we please God.

Offline sparrow

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #140 on: November 27, 2009, 04:35:12 AM »
Hey jab, I just have an issue with the whole idea of provoking others to jealousy.
That is something that needs to be ERADICATED from us, not nurtured.
Despite what verses say, I just can't go along with it.
In my heart, it is wrong.

It is not love.

Let people wonder and be curious about the peace in my heart, and let people wonder how I may be making it through a hard time without getting angry or resentful or full of rage. Let people wonder about my PEACE and be drawn to God's love that is INSIDE of me. But I just cannot nurture the idea of "provoking others to jealousy". Maybe this is something for others. But not for me. Jealousy is ugly.
YEARNING to have peace. YEARNING to have love. I can understand.
Jealousy is ugly resentment.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this topic, because apparently I feel very strongly.
Unless someone wants to try to explain it in another way that makes sense to my heart and my spirt.

peace.

Sparrow,
We need faith to follow the Lord wherever He leads, even up the mountainside to sacrifice our own child, through faith we please God.

I have faith. And I follow God wherever HE leads.
Does it occur to you that God has never, ever, not once LED me to provoke others to jealousy so this is why I have an issue with it...???

Think about that, beloved.
Blindly follow words in the bible, or follow HIS spirit.

I choose to read the words in the bible, but wait for HIM to move me.
I have a feeling I'm going to be waiting a really long time for my Father to lead me to provoke others to murderous jealousy. I don't see where it would ever happen. Not from what I know of my beautiful Father.

Just my  :2c:

 :HeartThrob:

peace.


"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #141 on: November 27, 2009, 05:03:44 AM »

Abraham probably thought the same thing.
Yet the beautiful Father did it, none the less.
I pray you do not be asked to follow Abraham in his faith.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #142 on: November 27, 2009, 05:46:52 AM »
I've been thinking for awhile about this aspect of this thread.  The gospel isn't necessarily pretty, or always warm and fuzzy to where people will be drawn by its surface attractiveness.

God does the drawing and choosing.

Jesus' crucifixion wasn't pretty;  "...the LORD was pleased to crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring..."  Is 53:10

For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. I  Cor. 1:18

  
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline sparrow

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #143 on: November 27, 2009, 07:22:52 AM »

Abraham probably thought the same thing.
Yet the beautiful Father did it, none the less.
I pray you do not be asked to follow Abraham in his faith.


Did God actually have Abraham murder his own son? No.
Perhaps his testing Abraham's faith isn't quite what you think.
There are other ways of looking at it.

I may see things in a different way, I suppose.
And that's fine.

But as far as questioning my faith, I answer to Him. Not mankind.

"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #144 on: November 27, 2009, 07:47:13 AM »
I've been thinking for awhile about this aspect of this thread.  The gospel isn't necessarily pretty, or always warm and fuzzy to where people will be drawn by its surface attractiveness.

God does the drawing and choosing.

Jesus' crucifixion wasn't pretty;  "...the LORD was pleased to crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring..."  Is 53:10

For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. I  Cor. 1:18

 :cloud9: For sure it's not pretty.....there is a "honeymoon" stage (which some never come out of) but there also comes a time where we are expected to lay down everything and get serious about the "family business". Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline sparrow

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #145 on: November 28, 2009, 01:56:54 AM »
I've been thinking for awhile about this aspect of this thread.  The gospel isn't necessarily pretty, or always warm and fuzzy to where people will be drawn by its surface attractiveness.

God does the drawing and choosing.

Jesus' crucifixion wasn't pretty;  "...the LORD was pleased to crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring..."  Is 53:10

For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. I  Cor. 1:18

 :cloud9: For sure it's not pretty.....there is a "honeymoon" stage (which some never come out of) but there also comes a time where we are expected to lay down everything and get serious about the "family business". Blessings....



Hmmm.  :thumbsup:
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline Molly

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #146 on: November 28, 2009, 01:59:33 AM »
I like the way Cardinal puts that, 'the family business.'  lol