Author Topic: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All  (Read 5790 times)

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Offline sparrow

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #75 on: November 24, 2009, 02:36:57 AM »
So you guys....
Is what molly is saying...Is that what you all are saying too?

I'm not quite so sure I understand what it is you all are sayingm now!
Provoking others to murderous jealousy..??

Guys? help me out here...
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline Taffy

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #76 on: November 24, 2009, 03:23:57 AM »
sparrow  :icon_flower:

The Spirit rules\is the head  of the Soul , as Man  rules\is the head of the wife, AS Christ is HEAD of the Church [woman].... the very thing Adam Failed to Do by submitting to the Soul [woman]EVE

Christ In us is the Spirit and the Flesh is the soul

WHEN the flesh\soul Rules the SPIRIT ,it Puts to death the SPIRIT within...its what the pharisees did with Christ , they persisted to sit in Moses seat and refused to relinquish their Being to be Ruled within..CLEAN the INSIDE of the CUP....


its This Flesh which is RAISED to Jealousy....
« Last Edit: November 24, 2009, 03:33:30 AM by Taffy »
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Molly

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #77 on: November 24, 2009, 03:29:37 AM »

27"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

--Mat 23

Offline sparrow

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #78 on: November 24, 2009, 04:24:14 AM »
sparrow  :icon_flower:

The Spirit rules\is the head  of the Soul , as Man  rules\is the head of the wife, AS Christ is HEAD of the Church [woman].... the very thing Adam Failed to Do by submitting to the Soul [woman]EVE

Christ In us is the Spirit and the Flesh is the soul

WHEN the flesh\soul Rules the SPIRIT ,it Puts to death the SPIRIT within...its what the pharisees did with Christ , they persisted to sit in Moses seat and refused to relinquish their Being to be Ruled within..CLEAN the INSIDE of the CUP....


its This Flesh which is RAISED to Jealousy....

Taffy what does all of this have to do with provoking others to murderous jealousy?
This all sounds bizarre, no offense.  :dontknow:
I don't think it's people with the love in their hearts that are provoking others to murderous jealousy.
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline Taffy

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #79 on: November 24, 2009, 04:31:00 AM »
sparrow  :icon_flower:

The Spirit rules\is the head  of the Soul , as Man  rules\is the head of the wife, AS Christ is HEAD of the Church [woman].... the very thing Adam Failed to Do by submitting to the Soul [woman]EVE

Christ In us is the Spirit and the Flesh is the soul

WHEN the flesh\soul Rules the SPIRIT ,it Puts to death the SPIRIT within...its what the pharisees did with Christ , they persisted to sit in Moses seat and refused to relinquish their Being to be Ruled within..CLEAN the INSIDE of the CUP....


its This Flesh which is RAISED to Jealousy....

Taffy what does all of this have to do with provoking others to murderous jealousy?
This all sounds bizarre, no offense.  :dontknow:
I don't think it's people with the love in their hearts that are provoking others to murderous jealousy.


Sparrow  non taken  :icon_flower:

All I was doing was putting into context that which Molly mentioned in  her post and what has been mentioned previously..I really dont know a more simple way of putting it :mblush:

But Just Maybe ya missing the point Sparrow...NO ones suggesting provoking Folk to Jealousy.... :icon_flower:


« Last Edit: November 24, 2009, 04:36:49 AM by Taffy »
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Molly

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #80 on: November 24, 2009, 04:42:56 AM »
Quote from: Taffy
NO ones suggesting provoking Folk to Jealousy

LOL thanks.  I guess I need a translator for 'they are being provoked by God."


11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

--Rom 11


Offline Taffy

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Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #82 on: November 24, 2009, 04:47:50 AM »
I really felt power coming from that post Taf.  Now, whether I understand it all or not is another question (hint-I don't  :laughing7:) but I'm gonna re-read it and think about it some more. 
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline sparrow

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #83 on: November 24, 2009, 04:50:43 AM »
sparrow  :icon_flower:

The Spirit rules\is the head  of the Soul , as Man  rules\is the head of the wife, AS Christ is HEAD of the Church [woman].... the very thing Adam Failed to Do by submitting to the Soul [woman]EVE

Christ In us is the Spirit and the Flesh is the soul

WHEN the flesh\soul Rules the SPIRIT ,it Puts to death the SPIRIT within...its what the pharisees did with Christ , they persisted to sit in Moses seat and refused to relinquish their Being to be Ruled within..CLEAN the INSIDE of the CUP....


its This Flesh which is RAISED to Jealousy....

Taffy what does all of this have to do with provoking others to murderous jealousy?
This all sounds bizarre, no offense.  :dontknow:
I don't think it's people with the love in their hearts that are provoking others to murderous jealousy.


Sparrow  non taken  :icon_flower:

All I was doing was putting into context that which Molly mentioned in  her post and what has been mentioned previously..I really dont know a more simple way of putting it :mblush:

But Just Maybe ya missing the point Sparrow...NO ones suggesting provoking Folk to Jealousy.... :icon_flower:





Yeah, but it SEEMS like you all are saying... that GOD will use US to provoke others to murderous jealousy. That is a pretty harsh statment.

Are you saying actual people will be so jealous of those that have love and peace in their heart (due to God) that people are actually going to become murderous? Literally?
Is this what you are saying? That God will use His children to provoke his other children (who are still in darkness) to murderous jealousy?

This is what I am trying to establish.

 

"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline jfraysse

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #84 on: November 24, 2009, 04:56:45 AM »

I guess I need a translator for 'they are being provoked by God."

This makes it worse!  Now God is evil.

Here is the Fruit of Jealousy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTBx-hHf4BE&feature=related

The God that changed my life 34 years ago does NOT violate his own rules, no matter WHO says so and no matter WHERE it is written that He does.

In His Love, John :HeartThrob:
I'm smart enough to know that I'm not always smart enough!

Offline Molly

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #85 on: November 24, 2009, 05:03:36 AM »
First, it doesn't have to be literally murderous.  It just turns out that way a lot in the Bible.  For instance, Jesus on the cross--remember?  Also, Jesus tells us if you think it, it's as good as doing it.  So if you are thinking hateful, murderous thoughts about someone, it's as good as carrying out the act.

Secondly, this is happening as the result of who God is. And, who Christ is.  Christ in us is what is provoking those in darkness.  Just who he is.  Nothing more is needed.  The darkness hates the light.   As Taffy put it, the flesh wants to kill the spirit.  The first son wants to kll the second son.  These are themes all through the Bible.

But the second son [Spirit/Jesus] shall rule the first [flesh/Adam]--which evidently the first is not too happy about.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #86 on: November 24, 2009, 05:06:12 AM »
First, it doesn't have to be literally murderous.  It just turns out that way a lot in the Bible.  For instance, Jesus on the cross--remember?  Also, Jesus tells us if you think it, it's as good as doing it.  So if you are thinking hateful, murderous thoughts about someone, it's as good as carrying out the act.

Secondly, this is happening as the result of who God is. And, who Christ is.  Christ in us is what is provoking those in darkness.  Just who he is.  Nothing more is needed.  The darkness hates the light.   As Taffy put it, the flesh wants to kill the spirit.  The first son wants to kll the second son.  These are themes all through the Bible.

But the second son [Spirit/Jesus] shall rule the first [flesh/Adam]--which evidently the first is not too happy about.

Good insight Molly.  Much to see there for sure.
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline Taffy

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #87 on: November 24, 2009, 05:09:37 AM »

I guess I need a translator for 'they are being provoked by God."

This makes it worse!  Now God is evil.

Here is the Fruit of Jealousy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTBx-hHf4BE&feature=related

The God that changed my life 34 years ago does NOT violate his own rules, no matter WHO says so and no matter WHERE it is written that He does.

In His Love, John :HeartThrob:

No John
The Flesh Is EVIL....that which profits NOTHING..when Christ tore at the Pharisees in Math 23...by the use of Sarcasm..which in the Greek means to Tear at the FLESH...  do we Now say Christ IS EVIL..God Forbid ... :thumbdown:

Until we realise the FLESH\soul  profits Nothing, we will continue to support it...

the Flesh is ENMITY to the SPIRIT....WE OVERCOME EVIL with GOOD ..Christ OVERCOMES the very Nature of our SOUL\flesh...through HIS enabling Grace through our obedience

So John GOD IS NOT EVIL..
« Last Edit: November 24, 2009, 05:19:28 AM by Taffy »
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline sparrow

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #88 on: November 24, 2009, 05:10:53 AM »
So how exactly is all of this giving glory to God? By saying that the love and peace in our heart because of HIM will provoke others to murderous jealousy?
How is any of this "good news" that we are to be spreading..?

Just not following any of you guys.
I really don't think that I need an "interpretor"  :mblush:.
Just basic answers would be nice.

 :dontknow:
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline Molly

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #89 on: November 24, 2009, 05:15:57 AM »
Sparrow--

19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

--John 3

Zeek

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #90 on: November 24, 2009, 05:17:33 AM »


Yeah, but it SEEMS like you all are saying... that GOD will use US to provoke others to murderous jealousy. That is a pretty harsh statment.

Are you saying actual people will be so jealous of those that have love and peace in their heart (due to God) that people are actually going to become murderous? Literally?
Is this what you are saying? That God will use His children to provoke his other children (who are still in darkness) to murderous jealousy?

This is what I am trying to establish.

 



Sparrow,

in a different thread you were excited about Barry's post re: us being benefactors of the new covenant.  IMO, stick with that joy.  The transition of covenants imo is what the "provoke to jealousy is about"; which involved gentiles being grafted in, and Israel (old covenant) world being provoked to jealousy through this grafting.  It was a pride issue, and the prideful fall.  

 :HeartThrob:

Offline Taffy

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #91 on: November 24, 2009, 05:18:17 AM »
So how exactly is all of this giving glory to God? By saying that the love and peace in our heart because of HIM will provoke others to murderous jealousy?
How is any of this "good news" that we are to be spreading..?

Just not following any of you guys.
I really don't think that I need an "interpretor"  :mblush:.
Just basic answers would be nice.

 :dontknow:
these are as Basic as they Come Sparrow..  :icon_flower:

haVE a great day  :icon_flower:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline sparrow

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #92 on: November 24, 2009, 05:21:11 AM »
Perhaps you all are saying that some people who are in darkness are in SUCH darkness that seeing others with peace and love in their hearts will become jealous. And through that jealousy they will rage. But that it is their OWN carnality that is making them have these feelings, their own turning away from God that is causing the jealousy. God HIMSELF is not causing these people to do this, they are doing it TO THEIRSELVES. But it's the peace and love that people have that is provoking them. NOT GOD. NOT US.

Is THIS what you are saying?
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline sparrow

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #93 on: November 24, 2009, 05:22:00 AM »
So how exactly is all of this giving glory to God? By saying that the love and peace in our heart because of HIM will provoke others to murderous jealousy?
How is any of this "good news" that we are to be spreading..?

Just not following any of you guys.
I really don't think that I need an "interpretor"  :mblush:.
Just basic answers would be nice.

 :dontknow:
these are as Basic as they Come Sparrow..  :icon_flower:

haVE a great day  :icon_flower:

well gee thanks. :sigh:
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #94 on: November 24, 2009, 05:26:19 AM »
Maybe some of us are just "basic", Taf.  Count me in  :laughing7:.

I've tried to address this in different ways.  I'll try to explain my understanding of it this way.

How God, in His sovereignty, chooses to do things is not up to me.  It's not about whether I understand it, agree with it, or like it.  He may choose to handle things in certain ways that I personally (my flesh, my carnal mind) cannot fathom, and from my perspective I might say "God's not playing nice".  I probably struggle with that EVERY single day, and sometimes MANY times throughout the day.  My flesh and mind sometimes "scream out" against the things of God.  It's the spiritual battle against the flesh.  But what God chooses to do and how He chooses to do them isn't up to me - and guess who needs to change?   :mblush:  

What's up to me is to bow my will before Him, take Him at His Word, believe everything He has to say to me, both in my heart and spirit and what is written in the scriptures, and let that change me - my feelings, my perspective, my view, my very being (Taf, is that what you were getting at about "clean the inside of the cup"?).

I'll be the first (or second, I imagine somebody already has  :bigGrin:) to say that I'm lousy at doing the above.  That's why I need His grace, his patience, his forgiveness, to slowly bring me along - because I am literally lost without Him.

So if God's Word says that God brings people to jealousy, then what does He mean?  Not "did He say it", because He obviously did.  But what does it mean, what does that look like, how am I supposed to live while God is working HIS plan?   The fruit of the Spirit is (not directly quoting) righteousness, peace, joy...and there remains faith, hope, and love, and the greatest of these is love.

 :HeartThrob:  
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline jfraysse

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #95 on: November 24, 2009, 05:27:05 AM »
So John, GOD IS NOT EVIL..

I agree, Brother Taffy! Just in case you were wondering :thumbsup: :bigGrin:
I'm smart enough to know that I'm not always smart enough!

Zeek

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #96 on: November 24, 2009, 05:27:35 AM »
Rom 10:21  But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

Rom 11:1  I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Rom 11:2  God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the Scripture saith of Elijah? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

Rom 11:3  Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

Rom 11:7  What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Rom 11:8  (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

Rom 11:9  And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompense unto them:

Rom 11:10  Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back always.

Rom 11:11  I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

Rom 11:12  Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fullness?

Rom 11:15  For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

Rom 11:16  For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
 
Rom 11:17  And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Rom 11:18  Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Rom 11:19  Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

Rom 11:20  Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Rom 11:21  For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Rom 11:22  Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Rom 11:23  And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

Rom 11:24  For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

Rom 11:25  For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.

Rom 11:26  And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Rom 11:27  For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Rom 11:33  O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

Offline Molly

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #97 on: November 24, 2009, 05:27:48 AM »
Men want the lights turned off so they can continue on their merry, wicked ways.

Turn off the lights!!!

Zeek

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #98 on: November 24, 2009, 05:32:07 AM »
Rom 10:19  But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

Rom 10:20  But Isaiah is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

Rom 11:31  Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

Rom 11:32  For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Mat 1:21  And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All
« Reply #99 on: November 24, 2009, 05:32:33 AM »
One of my favorite passages, Mol (and Zekester).  Sooo much in there.  Quite a good summary of God's plan of ultimate reconciliation, actually.  :thumbsup:  Them's shoutin' scriptures!
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23