willieH: Hi Lego...
Cool thread! Sorry if my portion is too long, read what you will, it is my personal journey to the SALVATION of ALL (ur) ...which actually could be a book not just a post... (after all, I AM 63 years old --
So here it is --
My journey began in the SDA church, ...moved out of it after a few years because God revealed to me His ONENESS (SDA's believe in the "trinity")... It marked that even though I didn't know it at the time, ...I was willing to leave fallacy behind as I sought the truth...
After which I wandered in and out of 7th Day churches for a while...
Went to the Seventh Day Church of God for a few months, and though it had many sweet people, it was more like a funeral service than a Celebration...
soon we left there,
Had affiliations for a short time, with Assembly of God... and grew weary of the "tongues" thing which appeared to be their central attention... and (I don't "judge" them, just was uncomfortable with them), but IMO -- distracted from CHRIST
and brought attention to themselves --
My mom & sis attended the Salvation Army, and my wife and I began attending their services, and were well recieved in spite of the knowledge that we played music in "bars"... and stayed there for close to 20 years, until we grew so VERY tired of the "trinity" and distasteful "Hell" teachings... (never could get it in my heart that GOD would DO such a thing to His precious and created beings)
One day... through all this, alone and by myself (wife was at work) I came to God amidst His nature (overlooking the Spokane River), and tearfully confessing my weaknesses, and lack, I asked what this vagabond journey of mine was all about... No answer came out of the sky... but one DID occur in my heart...
Without really knowing why, ...I placed my Bible on the ground, opened up to 2 Peter 3:9
and said to Him... "If I had ONE WISH
Lord, it would be that YOU get YOUR WISH
, as it is WRITTEN here... that when all is said & done, that NONE perish... and that ALL come to Repentence... including me..."
To this day, I believe that the ALIGNMENT of the HEART with the TRUTH of UR, is that which CALLS one OUT
... for it SEPARATES us from ALL other believers... regardless of denomination, and resultingly, ...we become the objects of PERSECUTION and REJECTION ...BY
... the PEOPLE of GOD, just as the JEWS (CHRIST's
own PEOPLE) persecuted and REJECTED Him... continuing...
I went home, and almost INSTANTLY, different verses began to "pop out" at me, as if they had never been there before (which of course, they were!
I went on the internet and began to discuss this with others at a discussion site called "the Mars Hill Forum"... Suggesting to them, that Hell was not a truth, and that ALL would be saved eventually in the Masterful Plan of the Almighty, which is PERFECT... to which, immediately (by these "so-called friends") I was promptly entitled a heretic... and began to be shunned by them...
Afterwards sentimentally, touching the first base that my wife and I had touched, we went back to the very same SDA church in which we began (in spite of their postional teachings of Annhilation, trinity, and their "prophetess" -- EG White)
After a short time, again we moved on... and have now been "unchurched" for many years... I do not forsee involvement with any more "churches", even though I love all those within them, dearly...
My beliefs having expanded in many ways, and the unlearning of several things occuring with that as well as new revelations along the way...
I never swallowed the "millennium"
thing... even in the churches I went to... And as I said, have been riding on the "YHVH
is God alone train", almost since my walk's beginning.
Never believed in the "Rapture"
either... Unlearned "Hell"
Here are some of the revelations I have had since gaining the revelation of UR, (which probably most will disagree with -- oh-well): (1)
God's Foreknowledge is
His Sovereignty, which reveals His Children IN the Knowledge of G & E -- and progresses as the History of Mankind as noted BY HIM -- BEFORE it BEGAN -- ALL "choices" of men are predetermined to BE made as they are made. We are about HIS AGENDA and REACTIVE to Him, not the opposite which the church proposes... Him dealing with OUR AGENDA and REACTIVE to Us
GOD "foreknows" ALL... therefore ALL occurs according to HIS FOREKNOWLEDGE of those events and choices -- Rom 9:11 -- Isaiah 46:10-11 -- Matt 26:24 --(2)
That GOD's "reward" is the Service He ordains in us -- Matt 25:23 -- Luke 22:26 --(3)
That Salvation is HIS calling and work ALONE, and is NOT ASSISTED by us in any way -- He deals out the Faith, which is AUTHORED by Him, which is then nurtured by His WORD
, which encloses the child in His Loving and Saving arms -- Heb 12:2 -- Rom 12:3 --(4)
That it is in hearing TRUTH
that His [called] "Sheep" are KNOWN by Him -- John 10:27 -- Matt 7:23 --(5)
That HE is working ALL THINGS both negative and positive -- Jer 18:4 --
as He "creates" the knowledge in His Children which are MADE in His image (that image, along with all other things, also REFLECTS the "knowledge") -- Gen 3:22 --(6)
That ETERNITY is not a "from NOW-ON" proposition, rather that it ALWAYS IS -- (7)
That TIME is a "classroom" of sorts... in which we gain YHVH's
"Knowledge of G & E" --(8)
That the current forms of Christianity compose BABYLON, from which God calls His PEOPLE (called
ones) OUT -- Rev 18:4 --(9)
That NO WORK of GOOD
is authored by ANYONE but CHRIST
) -- 1 Cor 3:11-15 --(10)
That FREEDOM is created in men, by the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST
-- In them... and that the WILL of man is that which ENSLAVES him to sin -- Gen 2:16-17 -- Gen 3:6 -- James 1:14 --(11)
That the Children of God have ALWAYS BEEN, for He IS
ALL in ALL -- (not needing or requiring "TIME" and it's manifestations, in order to BE WHO
) -- Job 38:7 -- Luke 15:11-32 --(12)
That the book of "Revelation [revealing] of JESUS CHRIST
" is symbolic and Spiritual (NOT at all literal) as it so names itself -- Rev 1:1
-- and that it speaks of CHRIST
as revealed to HUMANITY in general as well as to each INDIVIDUAL. (In other words -- the 7 "churches" are in the course of each human being, as well as present in the course of the History of man.) -- (13)
That "satan" as proposed as a "BEING" is the creation of the imagination of MEN... and in fact is nothing but the ADVERSITY which translates to the ability IN MEN to DISOBEY the COMMAND of GOD, and thereby exposing EVIL as a reality, and part of the KNOWLEDGE of YHVH
That THIS LIFE
is the Lake of FIRE in which we are each IMMERSED (baptism), and in which CHRIST
was tried -- Rev 3:18 -- (15)
That The GOSPEL
when it is presented IN TRUTH, is exclusively PEACE
for it is named to be such... which contains ABSOLUTLY NO
"news" which is NEGATIVE... For PERFECT LOVE, "casts out" FEAR and TORMENT -- 1 John 4:18 --(16)
That "CONTEXT" is the demand of Theological and RELIGIOUS men, and though it does have value, the WORD of GOD is NOT enclosed by this demand... it is FREE to teach, and its PRINCIPLES can stand IN and
OUT of CONTEXT... NO command concerning the THEOLOGICAL demand of "CONTEXT" is found in the WORD
That there is NO COMMAND
to teach "HELL"
in the Bible -- and there are NO EXAMPLES of it being taught by the Apostles whom CHRIST
instructed to teach "whatsoever He COMMANDED
":Matt 28:20 TEACHING them to OBSERVE all things whatsoever -- I HAVE COMMANDED YOU...
If in fact they were "commanded
" to teach HELL
, ...where are the accounts of the "TEACHINGS" they did?
None in the book of Acts
which is the "Early" account of GOSPEL
going out to the world, nor is there ANY mention of HELL
in the writings of Paul & John, nor is there SPECIFIC teaching of HELL
in ANY of the other letters written to the Christian community by the Apostles...
(who HEARD Him first-hand) did not "teach it", ...why should we? (18)
is about PEACE
... it is named so -- Rom 10:15 -- Eph 6:15
-- and GOD
is named so as well -- Rom 15:33 -- Heb 13:20 -- 1 Cor 14:33 -- Phil 4:9 -- 1 thess 5:23 -- 2 Thess 3:16 -- Heb 7:2
-- not to mention the entire PLAN and its result is PEACE
-- Col 1:20
-- so WHERE does all the communication of NEGATIVITY within the spreading of the "GOSPEL"
find its birth? Torment, Fear, Dread, ...what GOOD NEWS
is in these?
is in these?
:omg: Men (Christians) who are FORGIVEN their sins (in which they did NOTHING, other than to confess themselves and CHRIST
) Are bringing a program (they call the "GOSPEL"
) which ASSIGNS other
to other men! (torment, fear, dread) Whattupwidat? When Scripture says that LOVE in its PERFECT way, CASTS AWAY such things, and those who FEAR are not made PERFECT! When will "Christians" wake up?(19)
of THIS WORLD is NOW
plainly noted this, yet His "followers" have designed a different observation than these stated WORDS
of the Savior... proposing it to be AFTERWARD... As if JESUS
"didn't MEAN what He said"...
What part of NOW
is so hard to understand?
Do we not accept that NOW
-- in THIS DAY
-- is the "DAY of SALVATION" ...or that NOW
is the "ACCEPTED TIME" in which we shall be "ACCEPTED"? IMO
this is just more observation which is blocked by RELIGIOUS items, still remaining in the "closet" of the mind/heart!
stepped OUT of the TOMB... from DEATH to LIFE... did we all not ALL step out WITH HIM? Why teach the things of DEATH -- which include FEAR and TORMENT?
If I am pointing a GUN at you, thereby THREATENING YOU... are you not held in FEAR's grasp by my act? Is LOVE
present in MY ACT? Is it PEACEFUL?
Is it GOOD NEWS?
Teaching MORE (severe) FEAR and/or TORMENT to come, ...is different in WHAT WAY
? In WHAT WAY is PEACE
found in this "teaching"? In WHAT WAY is LOVE
present in this "teaching"?
And if PEACE
is NOT FOUND
... WHEREIN is the GOSPEL
...at least, please THINK
about it... (20)
-- Now here is an Unbiblical demand OFTEN made by "theologians" and students of the WORD
That GOD's COMMANDS and INSTRUCTION are certainly valuable
WITHIN its particular CONTEXT and the applications OF that CONTEXT are in part dictated by the presence of that COMMAND or INSTRUCTION, certainly does not BIND
that teaching TO
MAN has developed by RELIGIOUS THEOLOGY, the FALSE demand of "CONTEXT"... God's WORD
-- Whom shall He teach KNOWLEDGE? and whom shall He make to UNDERSTAND DOCTRINE? them that are weaned form the MILK and drawn from the breasts... For precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, HERE a LITTLE, ...and THERE a LITTLE.
This verse is suggesting there are PRECEPTS embedded in various
parts of His WORD
which are PIVOTAL and which are PROFITABLE and which are found in DIFFERENT
AREAS of it... If GOD's WORD
were meant to have STRICT CONFINEMENT of these PRECEPTS, then why do they appear in other areas? And in different "CONTEXTS"?
The Apostle Peter SPOKE the WORD
, and created a NEW CONTEXT using information found in TWO DIFFERENT
"CONTEXTS", and COMBINED the 2 ideas TOGETHER
... Acts 1:20
quotation of Ps 69:25
from Ps 109:8
-- For it is written in the book of PSALMS, -- (1) --Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein -- (2) -- and his bishopric let another take(1) Psalms 69:25
-- Let their habitation be desolated and let none dwell in thier tents(2) Psalms 109:8
-- Let his days be few, and let another take his office
Why did PETER's words appear as a WHOLE NEW portion and "CONTEXT" of GOD's WORD
-- Acts 1:20
-- which was gleaned from TWO completely DIFFERENT chapters and CONTEXTS, if we are to STRICTLY keep "in CONTEXT" that which we "quote"?
I'll tell you why! Because TRUTH is FREE... it is NOT imprisoned by the demands of MEN who study it... It has value and stands IN and OUT of the CONTEXT it is found within. "Thou shalt NOT KILL" is not CONFINED to Ex 20:13
or Deut 5:17
-- it can be applied and quoted as TRUTH in Any case, scenario or application.
I do not advocate that the CONTEXT in which a TRUTH appears does not incorporate that TRUTH... I say that the "TRUTH" is not IMPRISONED by that context...
When it comes "down to it", the GOSPEL
is simple -- GOOD NEWS!
That's it for now... as I might recall them, ...I'll add other observations to this list... there IS more, just can't bring everything to the "top of my head" at the moment...