Author Topic: Shadow, shadow and image.  (Read 1471 times)

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Offline WhiteWings

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Shadow, shadow and image.
« on: November 05, 2009, 08:01:24 PM »
Taffy pointed out in another thread the word shadow is used 7 times in the NT.
I counted them and found 7+1.

Matthew 4:16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.

Mark 4:32 But when it is sown, it groweth up, and becometh greater than all herbs, and shooteth out great branches; so that the fowls of the air may lodge under the shadow of it.

Luke 1:79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.

Acts 5:15 Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.

Colossians 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Hebrews 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

4639 skia, skia {skee'-ah}
Meaning:  1) shadow 1a) shade caused by the interception of light 1b) an image cast by an object and representing the form of that object 1c) a sketch, outline, adumbration
Origin:  apparently a primary word; TDNT - 7:394,1044; n f
Usage:  AV - shadow 7; 7


James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

644 avposki,asma aposkiasma {ap-os-kee'-as-mah}
Meaning:  1) a shade cast be one object on another, a shadow
Origin:  from a compound of 575 and a derivative of 4639; TDNT - 7:399,1044; n n
Usage:  AV - shadow 1; 1

In the OT the word shadow is used many times. I just list the first verse.
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

According to (some) Jewish scholars the word 'mage' in this verse should be 'shadow'
I'm sure I've read such an article in the past but just Googled a bit and couldn't find it.
If anyone has an article on it please post.

Even the defenition of the word shadow in the NT look quite similar but just because 2 diferent words are used they could be a deeper meaning in it.
Your opinion?

1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Shadow, shadow and image.
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2009, 03:54:29 AM »
The Hebrew of shadow in Gen 1:27 is interesting.
Some read it as an outline (of light)
That outline was filled and that was Adam.
It's often said we a cretaed in Jesus. Could that mean in the outline of Jesus? Then Jesus really was the shadow of things to come. Even before the first man.

Just a thought I wanted to write down. I'm aware most (all?) translations say it's in the image of God (=Father)
That ofcourse totally debunks my thought. (image of the Son) Anyway I've just put it here. Perhaps someone can add to the thought (in relation to the other verses)
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Shadow, shadow and image.
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2009, 04:26:30 AM »
 :cloud9: That's an interesting thought, WW........I once had a night vision of looking out in the darkness of night, and seeing all that was made in the creation, outlined in red, the color of His blood, and the color of rubies, as it is said wisdom is of more value than rubies, and that the world was framed with wisdom. So, you might be onto something there.  :thumbsup: Blessings.....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Shadow, shadow and image.
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2009, 10:35:30 AM »
I'm aware most (all?) translations say it's in the image of God (=Father)
That ofcourse totally debunks my thought. (image of the Son)
After some sleep I had an additional thought. I think it's fair to assume that the Son is also an image of the Father.
So if we are an image of the Son we are indirectly an image of Father too.
 :2c:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Shadow, shadow and image.
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2009, 10:46:02 AM »
:cloud9: That's an interesting thought, WW........I once had a night vision of looking out in the darkness of night, and seeing all that was made in the creation, outlined in red, the color of His blood, and the color of rubies, as it is said wisdom is of more value than rubies, and that the world was framed with wisdom. So, you might be onto something there.  :thumbsup: Blessings.....
I was planning to no further push my Adam=earth topic to keep a little peace on the forum (and because I already said my thing). But now you speak of blood I "must" bring it up again.
All Jewish (and western?) scholars agree Adam also means earth. It also means red. Makes me think of the clay of the big master Potter. Anyway. The Hebrew word for Adam/soil/earth/red is possibly rooted in the Hebrew word for blood.
I wrote possibly because (several) Hebrew scholars feel that way but admit their studies don't show a stong enough proof to present it as a fact. I just thought it was good to mention after you mentioned "His blood"


In case this thread gets of the ground... people please try to keep the spiritual stuff out for say 3 pages.
I'm just a level 1  bottom dweller and if things jump to level 10 I'm forced to leave the thread without learning anything.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2009, 10:49:35 AM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Shadow, shadow and image.
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2009, 11:34:25 AM »
the world was framed with wisdom
Wisdom=words. The Word=Jesus. Frame=outline. Outline=Image/shadow.
It seems to fit. Certainly not contradict
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Shadow, shadow and image.
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2009, 05:23:00 PM »
 :cloud9: I think what you suggested fits as well, because iron is what makes the blood red, and iron in scripture speaks of judgment. So all are born in this flesh realm have "bad blood" so to speak, which is why we need to be covered in His. My  :2c: Blessings...
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Shadow, shadow and image.
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2012, 11:53:03 PM »
צלם
tselem
BDB Definition:
1) image
1a) images (of tumours, mice, heathen gods)
1b) image, likeness (of resemblance)
1c) mere, empty, image, semblance (figuratively)
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: from an unused root meaning to shade
Same Word by TWOT Number: 1923a

ֶצֶלם
ṣelem: A masculine noun meaning an image, a likeness, a statue, a model, a drawing, a shadow. The word means image or likeness; its most celebrated theological and anthropological use was to depict human beings as made in God's own image (Gen 1:26-27; Gen 5:3). People continue to be in His image even after the fall, although the image is marred (Gen 9:6), and still serves as the basis of the prohibition not to kill human beings.
It is used metaphorically to depict persons as shadows, phantoms, or unknowing, senseless, fleeting beings carrying out the motions of life (Psa 39:6 [7]); unless they have hope in God (see Psa 39:7 [8]). In a similar vein, the wicked before the Lord are considered as mere dreams or fantasies (Psa 73:20).
The word is also used in a concrete sense to depict images cut out of or molded from various materials. The word describes the images or idols of foreign or strange gods (2Ki 11:18; Amo 5:26). The people of Israel produced images used as idols from their own jewelry (Eze 7:20; Eze 16:17). Israel was, on its entrance into Canaan, to destroy all the molten images of the heathen (Num 33:52). In Eze 23:14, this word refers to pictures of Babylonians that enticed the people of Israel into apostasy when they saw them (Eze 23:14).
1923 צלם (ṣlm). Assumed root of the following.
1923a צֶלֶם (ṣelem) image.
Used sixteen times. The Aramaic is used similarly in Dan 2 and 3. The word basically refers to a representation, a likeness. Five times it is used of man as created in the image of God. Twice it is used of the golden copies of the mice and swellings that afflicted the Philistines (I Sam 6:5, 11 and see 'ōpel). Mostly it refers to an idol.
There are a number of words used for idol (see under gillűl and 'āṣāb). Some, like gillűl, refer to their shape; others, like hebel, (KJV vanity) may be just a derogatory substitute (Deut 32:21; Jer 8:19 NIV). ṣelem refers to the image as a representation of the deity. As such, images were strictly forbidden. Notice, not all sculpture was forbidden (cf. the golden cherubim), only the idols.
Man was made in God's image (ṣelem) and likeness (dĕműt) which is then explained as his having dominion over God's creation as vice-regent. Ps 8:5–8 [H 6-9] is similar citing man's God-given glory, honor and rule. God's image obviously does not consist in man's body which was formed from earthly matter, but in his spiritual, intellectual, moral likeness to God from whom his animating breath came. The emphasis of the prohibition of idols is that they are all material created things. God is non-material, the creator (Deut 4:15–19). This spiritual aspect of man has been damaged by the fall and is daily tarnished by sin. But it was seen in perfection in Christ and will be made perfect in us when salvation is complete (Heb 2:6–15).
Bibliography: Girdlestone, SOT, pp. 303–308; on God's image in man: Buswell, J. O., Systematic Theology of the Christian Religion, vol. I, Zondervan, 1962, pp. 232–238. Miller, J. M. "In the 'Image' and 'Likeness' of God," JBL 91:289–304. THAT, II, pp. 556–62.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Shadow, shadow and image.
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2012, 11:57:26 PM »
       ●      God is sovereign, we have volition
       ●      God is omniscient, we have intelligence
       ●      God is immaterial and cannot be seen; our greatest part is our unseen person
       ●      God has a physical manifestation; we have a body
       ●      God is love, we have an emotional love capacity (or, better, the ability to love)
       ●      God is eternal life, we had perpetuated life
       ●      God is completely aware of His Own character; we possess self-consciousness
       ●      God is omniscient; we can perceive through our five senses the world around us

So that image is a watered down version of God at best.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline lomarah

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Re: Shadow, shadow and image.
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2012, 12:01:13 AM »
Quote
So that image is a watered down version of God at best.

For now. :)
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Shadow, shadow and image.
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2012, 12:18:38 AM »
All verses using tselem/image as used in Gen 1:26
Does the meaning leans toward real likenes or just a bad reprensatation?
Many verse are about idol figures. They may look 100% exactly like the pagan gods they represent but are missing all the 'qualities' of the those gods. Just dead powerless material.
So the images only have 'the looks' of those gods. And even that can be questioned.


(Gen 1:26) And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

(Gen 1:27) So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

(Gen 5:3) And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

(Gen 9:6) Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

(Num 33:52) Then ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures, and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places:

(1Sam 6:5) Wherefore ye shall make images of your emerods, and images of your mice that mar the land; and ye shall give glory unto the God of Israel: peradventure he will lighten his hand from off you, and from off your gods, and from off your land.

(1Sam 6:11) And they laid the ark of the LORD upon the cart, and the coffer with the mice of gold and the images of their emerods.

(2Kgs 11:18) And all the people of the land went into the house of Baal, and brake it down; his altars and his images brake they in pieces thoroughly, and slew Mattan the priest of Baal before the altars. And the priest appointed officers over the house of the LORD.

(2Chr 23:17) Then all the people went to the house of Baal, and brake it down, and brake his altars and his images in pieces, and slew Mattan the priest of Baal before the altars.

(Ps 39:6) Surely every man walketh in a vain shew: surely they are disquieted in vain: he heapeth up riches, and knoweth not who shall gather them.

(Ps 73:20) As a dream when one awaketh; so, O Lord, when thou awakest, thou shalt despise their image.

(Ezek 7:20) As for the beauty of his ornament, he set it in majesty: but they made the images of their abominations and of their detestable things therein: therefore have I set it far from them.

(Ezek 16:17) Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them,

(Ezek 23:14) And that she increased her whoredoms: for when she saw men pourtrayed upon the wall, the images of the Chaldeans pourtrayed with vermilion,

(Amos 5:26) But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves.

1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

anna274

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Re: Shadow, shadow and image.
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2012, 02:34:56 PM »
All verses using tselem/image as used in Gen 1:26
Does the meaning leans toward real likenes or just a bad reprensatation?
Many verse are about idol figures. They may look 100% exactly like the pagan gods they represent but are missing all the 'qualities' of the those gods. Just dead powerless material.
So the images only have 'the looks' of those gods. And even that can be questioned.


(Gen 1:26) And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

(Gen 1:27) So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

(Gen 5:3) And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

(Gen 9:6) Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

(Num 33:52) Then ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures, and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places:

(1Sam 6:5) Wherefore ye shall make images of your emerods, and images of your mice that mar the land; and ye shall give glory unto the God of Israel: peradventure he will lighten his hand from off you, and from off your gods, and from off your land.

(1Sam 6:11) And they laid the ark of the LORD upon the cart, and the coffer with the mice of gold and the images of their emerods.

(2Kgs 11:18) And all the people of the land went into the house of Baal, and brake it down; his altars and his images brake they in pieces thoroughly, and slew Mattan the priest of Baal before the altars. And the priest appointed officers over the house of the LORD.

(2Chr 23:17) Then all the people went to the house of Baal, and brake it down, and brake his altars and his images in pieces, and slew Mattan the priest of Baal before the altars.

(Ps 39:6) Surely every man walketh in a vain shew: surely they are disquieted in vain: he heapeth up riches, and knoweth not who shall gather them.

(Ps 73:20) As a dream when one awaketh; so, O Lord, when thou awakest, thou shalt despise their image.

(Ezek 7:20) As for the beauty of his ornament, he set it in majesty: but they made the images of their abominations and of their detestable things therein: therefore have I set it far from them.

(Ezek 16:17) Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them,

(Ezek 23:14) And that she increased her whoredoms: for when she saw men pourtrayed upon the wall, the images of the Chaldeans pourtrayed with vermilion,

(Amos 5:26) But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves.



Thanks WW,   I'm convinced that we very probably don't have a full understanding of just what is involved in being created in the image and likeness of God.  Currently, I see a great difference between Adam, the only CREATED son of God, and Jesus Christ, the only BEGOTTEN son of God and  that difference had to be reconciled (made compatible)... so much to ponder... again thanks for your graciousness and generousity, anna

Offline redhotmagma

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Re: Shadow, shadow and image.
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2012, 06:06:44 PM »
In Gen 1:26 the LXX has icon G1504 as the word for image.  That is the same word used of Christ being the image of the invisible God.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Shadow, shadow and image.
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2012, 06:21:08 PM »
All G1504's in the NT
Clearly it's not always about God or spiritual things.
The image of the beast.
And Ceasars image on a coin



(Matt 22:20) And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?

(Mark 12:16) And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar's.

(Luke 20:24) Shew me a penny. Whose image and superscription hath it? They answered and said, Caesar's.

(Rom 1:23) And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

(Rom 8:29) For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

(1Cor 11:7) For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

(1Cor 15:49) And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

(2Cor 3:18) But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

(2Cor 4:4) In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

(Col 1:15) Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

(Col 3:10) And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

(Heb 10:1) For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

(Rev 13:14) And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

(Rev 13:15) And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

(Rev 14:9) And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

(Rev 14:11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

(Rev 15:2) And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

(Rev 16:2) And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

(Rev 19:20) And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

(Rev 20:4) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...