Author Topic: Unbelief=Sin of the world  (Read 3746 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jabcat

  • Admin
  • *
  • Posts: 9080
  • SINNER SAVED BY GRACE
Re: Unbelief=Sin of the world
« Reply #50 on: October 24, 2012, 08:55:25 AM »
You hit on a lot of points I'd been thinking about John.   :thumbsup:

Fully accomplished outside of time, still being walked out within time.

The Lamb was slain from the foundation "outside time", 2000 years ago within time.

Salvation accomplished from the foundation outside time, only when the Holy Spirit draws each one and God provides faith to believe unto salvation within time.

When God visited me, it wasn't to tell me I was saved.  It was to tell me I needed the Savior.  He then gave me faith to believe in Him already slain and risen, and the strength to call on Him at that time He had so graciously appointed for me (nothing of myself).

It's a mystery.  Thank God for His mercy.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 09:22:27 AM by jabcat »

Offline Ross

  • Est
  • *
  • Posts: 214
  • Gender: Male
  • Gal2;20
Re: Unbelief=Sin of the world
« Reply #51 on: October 24, 2012, 03:51:13 PM »
Amen!

We are constantly being pushed for time by this age. This seems to cause much confusion and stress  under the push to finish things ahead of schedule or on time.
I recall a few of the disasters that have undergone closer examination that have revealed a few "time saving" risks that have caused serious damage.
This time consuming life seems to distract from the eternal coming age.

How does this sound;
Col 1;26 " The sacred secret which HAD BEEN HIDDEN away from the ages and from the generations,
BUT NOW has been made manifest to His saints, to whom God has been pleased to make known what is the glorious wealth of this sacred secret among the nations,
which is Christ IN YOU,
THE HOPE OF GLORY."
Fellow brother in Christ

Online WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 13052
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: Unbelief=Sin of the world
« Reply #52 on: October 24, 2012, 04:20:52 PM »
The Lamb was slain from the foundation "outside time", 2000 years ago within time.
The foundation of the world was far more than 2000 years ago. That's my usual view.

Just thought of another interpretation.

Rev 13:8 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast--all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world.


What if "from" isn't about time but location?
Meaning Jesus was killed at the same spot Adam was created?
Bit problematic because clearly the universe was created before Adam so technically Adam can't be teh foundation of the world. Unless world can also mean mankind.

 :dontknow: :dontknow:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline ded2daworld

  • Silver
  • *
  • Posts: 2099
  • Gender: Male
  • What if today we were just grateful for everything
Re: Unbelief=Sin of the world
« Reply #53 on: October 24, 2012, 04:31:13 PM »
How about the lamb was slain before their were humans. Spiritually, for an omnipotent God foresaw mankinds need for a saviour and that Jesus would successfully be the saviour of the world. His substitutionary, voluntary death fulfilled the righteous demands of the Father. It was "finished" physically at the cross. "God speaks of future things as though they had already come to pass" because nothing and no one can thwart God's will which is "for ALL men to be saved"
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11305
Re: Unbelief=Sin of the world
« Reply #54 on: October 24, 2012, 04:34:29 PM »
Quote from: ww
The foundation of the world was far more than 2000 years ago. That's my usual view


The 'foundation' [casting down] of the world was 6000 years ago.  Foundation/katabole means to cast or throw down, which is what happened when Adam was thrown out of the garden.

The lamb was slain at this time--from/at the foundation of the world--the casting down of the kosmos. 


the lamb slain from

"the foundation"

G2602
καταβολή
katabolē
kat-ab-ol-ay'
From G2598; a deposition, that is, founding; figuratively conception: - conceive, foundation.


The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon

Strong's Number: 2598 
Original Word Word Origin
kataballo from (2596) and (906)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Kataballo None
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
kat-ab-al'-lo  Verb 
 
Definition
to cast down
to throw to the ground, prostate
to put in a lower place
to lay (down) a foundation

 


Online WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 13052
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: Unbelief=Sin of the world
« Reply #55 on: October 24, 2012, 05:05:52 PM »
Quote from: ww
The foundation of the world was far more than 2000 years ago. That's my usual view
The 'foundation' [casting down] of the world was 6000 years ago.
Or 14 billion years. But that wasn't my point.
Quote
Foundation/katabole means to cast or throw down, which is what happened when Adam was thrown out of the garden.
You assume that means kicked out of Eden. It just as well can mean the moment God blew the breath of life into Adam. (pre-existance)
And that wasn't my point either.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline dajomaco

  • Bronze
  • *
  • Posts: 1032
Re: Unbelief=Sin of the world
« Reply #56 on: October 24, 2012, 06:52:42 PM »
Today, if you hear his voice,
 do not harden your hearts.

IMO Today is the day we were saved for.
Today we are reconciled to God and can enter into a joy filled intimate relationship.
He saved us for today.

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11305
Re: Unbelief=Sin of the world
« Reply #57 on: October 24, 2012, 07:10:06 PM »
Today, if you hear his voice,
 do not harden your hearts.

IMO Today is the day we were saved for.
Today we are reconciled to God and can enter into a joy filled intimate relationship.
He saved us for today.

Amen!


"Now listen! Today I am giving you a choice between life and death, between prosperity and disaster.


19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;

--Deut 30

Offline dajomaco

  • Bronze
  • *
  • Posts: 1032
Re: Unbelief=Sin of the world
« Reply #58 on: October 24, 2012, 07:38:20 PM »
Today, if you hear his voice,
 do not harden your hearts.

IMO Today is the day we were saved for.
Today we are reconciled to God and can enter into a joy filled intimate relationship.
He saved us for today.

Amen!


"Now listen! Today I am giving you a choice between life and death, between prosperity and disaster.


19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;

--Deut 30


 :friendstu::popout:

Offline eaglesway

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 4432
  • Gender: Male
  • Grace & Peace be multiplied unto you, in Jesus
    • Hell is a Myth.com
Re: Unbelief=Sin of the world
« Reply #59 on: October 25, 2012, 03:18:15 AM »
The Lamb was slain from the foundation "outside time", 2000 years ago within time.
The foundation of the world was far more than 2000 years ago. That's my usual view.

Just thought of another interpretation.

Rev 13:8 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast--all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world(kosmos).

This is a very creditable direction of thought IMO. Jesus said, "restore me to the glory I had with you before the world was"(jn 17:5).

If the location of Christ's eternal glory is outside the bubble of time, then the conception of the kosmos(world) began with the Lamb slain. Conceivably, the first thought of creation was, in God's mind, about loving fellowship between creatures. Therefore He conceives everything from the seed(logos) of the cross- a communication of ultimate sacrificial love at the center of all things.

God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.
(Heb 1:1-4)

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.
(Col 1:15-20)

Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
(1Pe 1:20)

Since eternity transcends time, the throne of Christ exists in a location outside of time, where the cross, the throne, the creation, the restoration of the world all co-exist like the petals of a flower that has blossomed, from the bud of God's plan of the ages- a revelation of divine love in a creation bound to pass through time in futility and then emerge in a location outside of time where all is gloriously restored in Christ and God is all in all.







What if "from" isn't about time but location?
Meaning Jesus was killed at the same spot Adam was created?
Bit problematic because clearly the universe was created before Adam so technically Adam can't be teh foundation of the world. Unless world can also mean mankind.

 :dontknow: :dontknow:
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com