Reincarnation

[t35lac0il]

Are there a lot of Christians who believe in reincarnation? Because I do, and I always have. The way I see it, being saved does not mean saved from hell, but saved from the endless cycle of rebirths. I know that this will most likely be a controversial opinion in a Christian forum, but my beliefs are influenced by Eastern philosophy, and I would like to know if anybody here shares this belief.

[jabcat]

Here's a thread that may be helpful to give some views of various members, and some folks will probably comment as well.

My brief comment;  "it is appointed unto man once to die"

http://tentmaker.org/forum/christian-life/reincarnation-a-devil's-lie-is-it-acceptable-from-a-christian-point-of-view/msg112338/#msg112338

[Lazarus Short]

Reincarnation, aka, re-incarceration.  It literally means, being made flesh again.

I recall the most telling thing from the New Testament on this subject comes from the Gospel of John, where Nicodemus came to Jesus, who told him that a man needed to be "born again" to see the kingdom of God.  Nicodemus brought up reincarnation, and here Jesus had a perfect opportunity to expound on the subject, but He did not speak of physical re-birth, but of being reborn spiritually.  I see that spiritual re-birth as resurrection, followed by glorification.

[WhiteWings]

The fact that Jesus did't mention it, isn't much proof of anything.
Jesus was focussed on the spiritual.

[Nancy]

Hi t35lacoil,

I too am coming round to the idea of reincarnation. Maybe that is what the second death is, coming back in another body.

When christians say that this teaching is from the devil, i feel that is a bit condescending to faiths that believe in this doctrine.  In other words if you don't understand something, just say it's from the devil and that solves it, question solved.

Godbless
Nancy

[lomarah]

Hi Nancy (and others). I think in some cases you are certainly right about Christians attributing things they do not understand to the devil. I have personally been told that I'm speaking under the power of satan many times by the religious. (I'm starting to get used to it lol...) In this case though I believe with all my heart that the doctrine of reincarnation really IS a lie. The reason I believe this is because my friend has had much experience with evil spirits, of which the Lord told her reincarnation is one. And in her words "a particularly nasty one". I'm telling you this because I'm concerned and I don't want you to be in bondage to this spirit. I'm pretty sure  her testimoney is in that other thread if you want to read it. Her name is Cardinal. Blessings.

[Lazarus Short]

The fact that Jesus did't mention it, isn't much proof of anything.
Jesus was focussed on the spiritual.

Remember these words of Jesus, and I take them as a key in the New Testament:  "If it were not so, I would have told you."  I note that Nicodemus brought up the subject, and Jesus brushed it aside as (presumably) irrelevant, and yes, went on to other spiritual matters.

[WhiteWings]

The fact that Jesus did't mention it, isn't much proof of anything.
Jesus was focussed on the spiritual.

Remember these words of Jesus, and I take them as a key in the New Testament:  "If it were not so, I would have told you."

That's just a reference to His own reborn  words.
That reference doesn't prove or disprove anything.

[jabcat]

I like what Nathan said in Feb. 2011 in the linked thread.

" I believe the idea of reincarnation is man's conclusion to God's spiirtual purposes.  I do believe that we "become" a new creation.  But I don't believe that we'll become a different form, that comes back as a different form, that comes back as a different form.  and I definitely don't agree that we'll come back anything less than human.  We were created in God's image . . .animals, objects are not God's image . . .

I don't see how reincarnation magnifies the cross.  I see it turn more into a distraction from the cross than anything.  What it seems to do mostly is raise more questions.  Questions often lead to distractions.  By pursuing all the knowledge that's out there on reincarnation, does it lead me closer to, further from or no change at all with my relationship with the Father?"

I say a hearty AMEN! 

[Nancy]

Hi there,
You mention that the Lord said that reincarnation is a lie.  The trouble i have with this is that there is a well known catholic lady who received the marks of stigmata and she said that Jesus gave her a vision in which people were being tormented in hell. 
Now i'm not saying the Cardinal didn't receive a revelation from God but what do you believe when people start saying the God told them this or that and especially when people say to us who believe in UR that it is the devil who is giving us this message.

Godbless
Nancy

[onlytruth]

Hi Nancy...what are the benefits to reincarnation?If there is no blessing for today,what is the use of this knowledge.Does it build up and edify, there has to be some gain to it????
just asking(cause we all are asking new challenging questions)
blessings

[lomarah]

Hey Nancy. :) I'm going to give you my reasons but I think it requires a bit of my life story so bear with me a bit here lol.

I hear what you're saying for sure. I struggled for a long time trying to figure out who was telling the truth, who was lying, and who was being deceived of those who claimed to have revelations from God. The thing is before church doctrine such as calvinism started being driven into my head, I could hear Him quite well. I knew His voice and His nature and I was learning from Him. But I started listening to the preachers and teachers instead of His voice. I have no idea why... thinking back it's like, DUH, that was stupid lol! So instead of believing in His loving voice, I started to believe what the preachers said: He "chose" me to go to heaven and most of my family to go to hell. (None of my immediate family were Christians at that time.) I stopped being able to discern His voice very well because I had such a skewed view of His nature. Anyhow, I got to the point where I just couldn't bear the thought of hell anymore, it was after my daughter was born, I just couldn't imagine God ever letting her burn forever (or even for a short amount of time), I knew in my heart it wasn't right, I knew that it wasn't love, yet there were all these books and NDE's and visions that people claimed to have had about this horrible, fiery, tormenting place where God supposedly either throws or allows mankind to be thrown into. So I cried out to Him, "Lord what is the truth??? If hell is somehow good please show me!" I hadn't even thought about Universal Reconciliation, it had never occurred to me that was even an option. But I went to the library shortly after that prayer and randomly picked up three books. Each of those books either openly taught or hinted at Universal Reconciliation. There was nothing on the cover or description that would suggest any of those books even had anything about UR in them. I was like, OOOOOKAY I get it Lord lol!

Shortly after that there was a link on the side of my email to a website by a man who claimed to hear from the Lord. One of the things he claimed was that God wanted him to share that all people would eventually be saved, no matter how much persecution he had to get over that doctrine. (And as I'm sure you can guess, he likely gets a lot.) His website said "From the Voice of the Lord". At first I was VERY hesitant, I almost didn't read it because I had read so many people who claimed to hear from God who were very obviously crazy or worse... But I gave it a go and what he had to say really resonated with my spirit. It was like I had FINALLY found what I was looking for. (His website is hallvworthington.com in case you're wondering.)

Anyhow, at that time I was also reading here on TM. I started paying close attention to what Cardinal had to say because even though most of it went completely over my head, a lot of it also resonated with my spirit. I started searching her posts and realized, WOW, she is saying the exact same things as Hall is saying on his site, and she also claims to hear from God directly! Not only did Card have the same revelations from God that Hall had, she also had the signs and wonders to go with it. (God has healed people through her, given her words of prophecy, words of knowledge, discerning others thoughts, etc, etc.) But more than that, as I got to know the both of them, one thing REALLY stood out and that was that they both had the love that Christians are supposed to have! (By the way, they have never met, never talked, never emailed, nothing. Yet they both hear the same things from the Lord.) I started realizing that there are many more people who hear from God and they also teach the same things. It was like a major lightbulb moment for me and I was so excited lol.

The major thing for me is, both Hall and Cardinal taught that we need to go to Him ourselves to be taught of Him ourselves. HE is the teacher, and HE will lead us into all truth! It was like "OOOOHHHHHH YEAHHHHH!!!" LOL. Because that is what I had been doing at the start of my Christian walk. Once I left the church and started going to God again for truth, He started to show me the same things He has shown Cardinal and Hall, and He is beginning to free me from things that are holding me in bondage, which Hall and Card said He could do.

I now know Cardinal very well, she is one of my dearest friends and I believe every word of what she says, because a) she has the experiences to back up what she is saying, b) she has the love that Christ said His true followers would have, c) she has been shown the exact same things as Hall and others, and d) because God has shown me many of the same things He has shown her.

As for the stigmata woman; I have no idea what sort of a sign that is... I mean in the Bible His disciples signs were healing people, casting out demons, those sorts of things, not things such as stigmata marks, you know what I mean? To me now, it is fairly easy to see who is real and who is fake. The Lord will show us all of these things. :)

God bless you as well!

 

[thinktank]

The fact that a unclean spirit is referenced as reincarnation, doesn't mean the end of the whole concept.

e.g a curse is usually evil, but Christ himself cursed the fig tree.

A unclean spirit of reincarnation is probably tied to other stuff like paganism etc.


But the concept of reincarnation can be biblical, just that we don't not see that word in the bible, so there are no "christian" words considered pure, like trinity devised.

[jabcat]

But the concept of reincarnation can be biblical

Bob Marley, I was afraid you were going to say that 

Where's the evidence it's Biblical?  IMO, the cross takes care of that, through the work of the Holy Spirit.  If it's appointed unto man once to die, and since it's the blood of Jesus through being given faith to believe on Him that cleanses and saves, why would coming back and coming back as something else be a necessity or even useful?  How does that fit with the finished redemptive work of the cross?

Blessings, James.

[WhiteWings]

Depends on the interpretation of several verses.

If we all preexisted a in heaven doesn't that mean we are reincarnated right now?
What about John Baptist being Elijah.

[jabcat]

Depends on the interpretation of several verses.

If we all preexisted a in heaven doesn't that mean we are reincarnated right now?
What about John Baptist being Elijah.

I don't think so.  I believe it would mean we are incarnated [taking bodily form for the first time], not reincarnated [returning again to a bodily form]. 

I don't believe John the Baptist was Elijah.  According to Luke 1:13-17, he came in the spirit of Elijah - he was a type of, not the Elijah.   When they asked him in John 1:19-21 if he was Elijah, and again, if he was the prophet, he answered them "no".

[jabcat]

Reincarnation is the religious or philosophical concept that the soul or spirit, after biological death, begins a new life in a new body that may be human, animal or spiritual depending on the moral quality of the previous life's actions.  This doctrine is a central tenet of the Indian religions…The word "reincarnation" derives from Latin, literally meaning, "entering the flesh again".  The Greek equivalent metempsychosis roughly corresponds to the common English phrase "transmigration of the soul" and also usually connotes reincarnation after death.   Many Christians regard Jesus as a divine incarnation. Most Christians believe that Jesus will come again in the Second Coming, although this is not a reincarnation.   wikipedia 

re•in•car•na•tion
 
1.
the belief that the soul, upon death of the body, comes back to earth in another body or form.
2.
rebirth of the soul in a new body.
3.
a new incarnation or embodiment, as of a person.  Dictionary.com

[Lazarus Short]

Given what I said earlier about Jesus, who declined to confirm reincarnation, I did remember this morning Ezekiel's vision of the valley of dry bones (Ezekiel, chapter 37).  The bones came together and acquired, sinew, flesh, skin, and finally breath.  This happened under the direction of YHVH, (Behold the Hand, Behold the Nail) that is to say, Jesus, so there should be no contradiction between dem bones and the conversation with Nicodemus.  If we take Ezekiel's vision literally, it is a form of reincarnation, or becoming flesh again.  The difference between this and Hinduism lies in whether immortality of the soul is true or not.  I take Hinduism's version of reincarnation as implying that we are always alive, but Ezekiel's version of reincarnation of reincarnation implies that we are quite dead between one set of flesh and the next.  Of course, resurrection comes under the latter, I think, and what is resurrection but being made flesh again, admittedly in a Mark II version of the flesh?

[jabcat]

Given what I said earlier about Jesus, who declined to confirm reincarnation, I did remember this morning Ezekiel's vision of the valley of dry bones (Ezekiel, chapter 37).  The bones came together and acquired, sinew, flesh, skin, and finally breath.  This happened under the direction of YHVH, (Behold the Hand, Behold the Nail) that is to say, Jesus, so there should be no contradiction between dem bones and the conversation with Nicodemus.  If we take Ezekiel's vision literally, it is a form of reincarnation, or becoming flesh again.  The difference between this and Hinduism lies in whether immortality of the soul is true or not.  I take Hinduism's version of reincarnation as implying that we are always alive, but Ezekiel's version of reincarnation of reincarnation implies that we are quite dead between one set of flesh and the next.  Of course, resurrection comes under the latter, I think, and what is resurrection but being made flesh again, admittedly in a Mark II version of the flesh?

I've never studied the valley of dry bones in detail.  Were those literally the same people?  Could it have been symbolic/metaphoric language describing a renaissance, a renewal?  Whether or not, yes, there is still the issue of resurrection in general.  I personally see that as very specific, i.e., YHWH working a specific, direct miracle - transforming something, renewing something.  Not some general plan of God that involves coming back, coming back, "to get it right".  IMO, that occurring means the cross and Jesus' finished work there was insufficient.  That's why I believe the cross takes care of the [generally understood] concept of reincarnation. 

[thinktank]

Given what I said earlier about Jesus, who declined to confirm reincarnation, I did remember this morning Ezekiel's vision of the valley of dry bones (Ezekiel, chapter 37).  The bones came together and acquired, sinew, flesh, skin, and finally breath.  This happened under the direction of YHVH, (Behold the Hand, Behold the Nail) that is to say, Jesus, so there should be no contradiction between dem bones and the conversation with Nicodemus.  If we take Ezekiel's vision literally, it is a form of reincarnation, or becoming flesh again.  The difference between this and Hinduism lies in whether immortality of the soul is true or not.  I take Hinduism's version of reincarnation as implying that we are always alive, but Ezekiel's version of reincarnation of reincarnation implies that we are quite dead between one set of flesh and the next.  Of course, resurrection comes under the latter, I think, and what is resurrection but being made flesh again, admittedly in a Mark II version of the flesh?

I see this ision as the resurection, which kind of mutes reincarnation.

[sheila]

the resurrection is the putting on of Christ's glory. we are hidden in him,from wrath/death.

   DO NOT BE AFRAID  I AM THE FIRST AND THE LAST    I AM THE LIVING ONE       I WAS DEAD AND BEHOLD I AM ALIVE FOR EVER AND EVER

   AND I HOLD THE KEYS OF DEATH AND HADES

[jugghead]

Hi there,
You mention that the Lord said that reincarnation is a lie.  The trouble i have with this is that there is a well known catholic lady who received the marks of stigmata and she said that Jesus gave her a vision in which people were being tormented in hell. 
Now i'm not saying the Cardinal didn't receive a revelation from God but what do you believe when people start saying the God told them this or that and especially when people say to us who believe in UR that it is the devil who is giving us this message.

Godbless
Nancy

For me, IMO, this could just be a misinterpretation of the vision, it could be just a graphic image in what religion does to those who do not understand the ways of God.

As for the other part, again IMO, we all have the capability of having the spirit of the devil (a false accuser) in us and if we have all been chosen to come to the knowledge of the truth, do we not become a false accuser if we say to another that does not understand "yet"(but will in due time) that they will be punished forever because of their own lack of understanding?

This is why I believe we all have to continually examine ourselves and watch what we say and to who we say it, and that is because since the definition of words varies from person to person, it is in that, that division is caused and the separation continues.

[ded2daworld]

Most Americans don't realize it but a true hindu from India does NOT see re-incarnation as a good thing.
To them it is a penalty for not doing everything right. Only when they have led a "wonderful" life are they freed from the penalty of reincarnation.
More problems with reincarnation:
1. We could not be reincarnated as animals and be true to the bible (made in the image of God)
2. Less than even 1% of humans even imagine or think or remember anything at all of a previous life.
(Do you think someone like Hitler could come back as a cockroach and think, "Oh yeah, I'm a cockroach now because I was a terrible person my last life) (time to work my way back up again.
3. No matter how many times we are re-incarnated (if true) we are still helpless sinners in need of a saviour. Since we all sin, we never "do better"
And as I think Jabcat mentioned, "It is appointed unto men once to die, then the judgment."

[jabcat]

Most Americans don't realize it but a true hindu from India does NOT see re-incarnation as a good thing.
To them it is a penalty for not doing everything right. Only when they have led a "wonderful" life are they freed from the penalty of reincarnation.

We could not be reincarnated as animals and be true to the bible (made in the image of God)

No matter how many times we are re-incarnated (if true) we are still helpless sinners in need of a saviour. Since we all sin, we never "do better"
"It is appointed unto men once to die, then the judgment."

 

[sheila]

satan serpents sentence was to eat dust all the days of his life...and that is what he does until he and all his offspring is cast into lof.

  these spirits have possessed many men's bodies over time...they have knowledge of that person they  entered flesh of and possessed......

  and as far as that lying stigmata sign of satan..he can cause seizures too,epeileptic fits,blindness...and lying visions on anyone....

you will know a tree by it's fruit...follow demoney..follow those who rule now...the falling away of christendom happened long ago...

 appointed to man once to die...but demons are chained under the earth awaiting execution...they devour our flesh/dust and do not rise

  but return to the dust of another fleshly body.....the abyss...when a star of heaven falls to earth and satan posseses it..it comes up out of the abyss

 [under the earth] and is set free to  deceive that man and it does..it wars against the truth of the camp of the Holy city