Author Topic: Punishment/correction lasts 1 day?  (Read 5939 times)

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Offline WhiteWings

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Punishment/correction lasts 1 day?
« on: November 07, 2008, 09:00:18 PM »
Quote
Isaiah 10:16-22 
Therefore shall the Lord, the Lord of hosts, send among his fat ones leanness; and under his glory he shall kindle a burning like the burning of a fire.
And the light of Israel shall be for a fire, and his Holy One for a flame: and it shall burn and devour his thorns and his briers in one day;
And shall consume the glory of his forest, and of his fruitful field, both soul and body: and they shall be as when a standardbearer fainteth.
And the rest of the trees of his forest shall be few, that a child may write them.
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.
The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God.
For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness.


Is the above signifying 'hell' ?
Is it a 'normal' 24-hour day or just a period of undefined length?
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Tony N

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Re: Punishment/correction lasts 1 day?
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2008, 09:21:01 PM »
It's not concerning 'Hell'

His hot burning anger will be poured out upon them and reduce them to few in number. Then the remnant will lean on Yahweh.
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline Nathan

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Re: Punishment/correction lasts 1 day?
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2008, 09:27:39 PM »
Anger?  Why would God be mad at us after he already sent a remedy through Christ?

To me, this is proclaiming the coming of Christ to purge and purify.  "in one day" Is Christ.  John received the vision of Revelation on "the Lord's Day" and traditional thinking says it was on Sunday . . .or Saturday, depending on your culture as to when you're to worship.  But for me, John was seeing the day of the Lord.   It is the realm of Truth.  Jesus stated that he was the DAY of the Sabbath, the day of rest.  The seventh day of creation in Genesis is also the same thing, it is the "in Christ" message.

To those who rejected Christ, it is in the form of a day of judgment . . .to purge their carnality from them.  To those who accepted him, it is the day of celebration and fulfillment.  Same day, different affects.  God is a consuming fire . .he consumes the briars, the thorns . .these are symbols of the curses of our flesh . .the irritants of our flesh are being consumed by the purifying and refining fire of the Father through Christ.

That is a "good" thing, not a bad one.

Here's a thinker for ya . . . "if" the lake of fire, (God) is designed to remove the flesh, the carnality from us, does this not also match up with what the Word of God is and does then?

Hebrews 4
12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Sounds a lot like the workings of the lake of fire to me.

Offline Tony N

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Re: Punishment/correction lasts 1 day?
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2008, 09:38:09 PM »
Dear Nathan, if God is the lake of fire then He is an enemy.

Christ died to save mankind from sin and death, not from needful loving correction.

There are still judgments looming on the horizon for mankind but not for us who are in Christ.
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline Nathan

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Re: Punishment/correction lasts 1 day?
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2008, 09:40:34 PM »
Really?  The enemy?  How can a consuming fire that purges the sin out of you be your enemy?  Considering that the lake of fire is not for eternal torment, right?
« Last Edit: November 07, 2008, 09:55:51 PM by Nathan »

Offline Tony N

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Re: Punishment/correction lasts 1 day?
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2008, 10:17:26 PM »
Really?  The enemy?  How can a consuming fire that purges the sin out of you be your enemy?  Considering that the lake of fire is not for eternal torment, right?

Dear Nathan,
All sin is dealt with through the cross of Christ. To the degree that sin is purged out of a person by fire is to the degree that that person does not need Christ.

Right, the lake of fire is not for eternal torment. It is death. Death is an enemy. The Bible says so.
Concerning God being a consuming fire:
"In  (Acts 5:11) we have the effect of this judgment upon the ecclesia and the people, "And great fear came on the whole ecclesia and on all hearing these things." In this kingdom era, through this judgment, all were made to realize that God "is also a consuming fire" (Heb.12:29), and that "it is fearful to be falling into the hands of the living God!" (Heb. 10:31). Shall we not praise God that He has saved us for grace (Eph.2:5), and that He "did not appoint us to indignation, but to the procuring of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thess.5:9)? " (H.W. Martin Unsearchable Riches, vol.16, p.41)
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Punishment/correction lasts 1 day?
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2008, 10:20:30 PM »
Mark 9:49-50  or every one shall be salted with fire .... Salt is good ....
Hebrews 12:29  For our God is a consuming fire

No idea why; but I more and more get the feeling everyone is going to "hell"
We all have our thorns/weed/sins.
Before we can enter heaven our robes need to be pure white.
None of our robes are pure white.
Malachi 3:2  But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
Our sins are going to be burned up. Read teached away with spiritual knowledge.
Our robes get cleaned with the fullers' soap.

Then what the use of Jesus?
I think that by following the guidelines of Jesus you end up in "hell" with a cleaner robe. Then the teaching will be shorter and less 'painful'
Although I don't see "hell" as a BBQ I still see it as something that is best avoided.
So that's one 'use' of Jesus.

The ones 'use' is that without "His ransom for all" we can't pay for the above mentioned soap...

 :URWelcome:

1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline willieH

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Re: Punishment/correction lasts 1 day?
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2008, 12:50:18 AM »
Quote
Isaiah 10:16-22 
Therefore shall the Lord, the Lord of hosts, send among his fat ones leanness; and under his glory he shall kindle a burning like the burning of a fire.
And the light of Israel shall be for a fire, and his Holy One for a flame: and it shall burn and devour his thorns and his briers in one day;
And shall consume the glory of his forest, and of his fruitful field, both soul and body: and they shall be as when a standardbearer fainteth.
And the rest of the trees of his forest shall be few, that a child may write them.
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.
The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God.
For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness.


Is the above signifying 'hell' ?
Is it a 'normal' 24-hour day or just a period of undefined length?

My  :2c: .......

It is GOD's "time" (if there is such a thing!  :laughing7:)... for ALL things are taking place in the DAY of YHVH...

Gen 2:4  These are the GENERATIONS [all generations] of the heavens and of the earth WHEN they were created, in the ...DAY that YHVH made the earth and the heavens...

The "WHEN", that ALL GENERATIONS are made, is in the DAY of YHVH,  ...WITHIN which occur... ALL, the total DAYS of MEN... from its FIRST DAY (of TIME) (Gen 1:5 ) unto its LAST DAY (John 6:44)!!! 

Which total is found to be COMPLETELY encased in "NOW"... 

As is everything else, NOW is the Judgment, NOW is the DAY of Salvation, NOW is the suffering taking place, NOW is DEATH a fact, ...etc

NOW

ALL GENERATIONS take place in the DAY that YHVH makes the earth and the heavens... which is "NOW"

The words Heavens and Earth in Gen 2:4 are in part, applicable not only to the physical heavens and earth, but to ...the "spiritual" heavens and earth... of ALL MEN, throughout history...

Which EACH are being MADE in the IMAGE of YHVH... as CHRIST is REVEALED in ALL to be presented to YHVH by that IMAGE.. which is JESUS CHRIST... that YHVH be ALL in ALL...

Our sufferings and judgment is NOW (John 12:32 - judgment is NOW / Heb 5:8 - JESUS suffered in His life ON EARTH - NOW, as do we - NOW)...

GOD is NOT putting His BELOVED Children, through all this pain, sorrow, suffering and loss, just to give us more of the same afterwards...  :thumbdown:

Certainly NOT, in one (presumed, and "GOD--enacted") "HELL" or another...

Which only amount to FALLEN MAN, visualizing ALMIGHTY YHVH GOD to be as is HE... Judgmental, Unforgiving, Seeking revenge, Unmerciful, etc...  ALL of which are found, absent in the description of LOVE... (1 Cor 13)

Forgive me for naming just a few, ...The COMPLETE list of man's CARNAL and UNSPIRITUAL shortcomings and VENGENT demeanor, is FAR too EXTENSIVE to name in this post...  :sigh:

It is NOT about how much punishment and suffering can be administered ["HELL"], ...it is about the wonderful and ETERNAL IMAGE of GOD, being manifest in EACH of us...  :bowing:  JESUS CHRIST :cloud9:

peacE...
willieH    :angel5:

Offline Nathan

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Re: Punishment/correction lasts 1 day?
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2008, 01:14:57 AM »
Dear Nathan,
All sin is dealt with through the cross of Christ. To the degree that sin is purged out of a person by fire is to the degree that that person does not need Christ.

Right, the lake of fire is not for eternal torment. It is death. Death is an enemy. The Bible says so.
Concerning God being a consuming fire:
"In  (Acts 5:11) we have the effect of this judgment upon the ecclesia and the people, "And great fear came on the whole ecclesia and on all hearing these things." In this kingdom era, through this judgment, all were made to realize that God "is also a consuming fire" (Heb.12:29), and that "it is fearful to be falling into the hands of the living God!" (Heb. 10:31). Shall we not praise God that He has saved us for grace (Eph.2:5), and that He "did not appoint us to indignation, but to the procuring of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thess.5:9)? " (H.W. Martin Unsearchable Riches, vol.16, p.41)



First, God and Christ are ONE . . .the lake of Fire is God . . Christ is a dimension of that.  From his mouth a sword will come that will strike the nations . . .the word of God is a refining fire . .the lake of fire is not just from God . .it "is" God.  And God is also Love . . .the purpose of the lake is to refine the carnality of man into righteousness of God.  If your name (identity) is written in the book of Christ (life) the lake of fire is not experienced by you.  It can't be death . .read Revelation 20:14, death is thrown into the lake of fire . . .death can't be thrown into death.  Even separation from God is consumed by God.

Whitewings, you're continuing to focus on the shadows rather than the light.  Of course we all have sin, because we are all still living in these limited and weak fleshly states.  But these things are not as big a problem to God as they are to us.  If they were, God would have immediately removed Paul's thorn.  And the parable of the wheat and tares would have been about the workers going out into the fields and pulling weeds.  

It's the church that has added that you need to follow a code before you can be accepted.  "If" the planter of life is truly in you, then there will be more wheat planted in you than tares.  And it's not the farmers or workers that are to even separate the wheat from tares at the harvest either.  It's the angels . . .or . . .the messengers/message of the gospel.  Hows that work?

If my message brings life, you know it's of God.  If my message brings anything else . .conformity, limitations, warnings, disciplines . .on and on, then you know it's coming from carnality, not God.  

The beauty about God orchestrating from both trees, life and knowledge of good and evil . .is, when you're in the spirit, you can discern what is good and evil, but you're not going to exercise that discernment.  Spiritually, you can see who's mature and who isn't, but just how much would you accomplish if you went to the spiritually immature person and explained to him how immature he was?  God obviously knew nakedness isn't appropriate, yet he never forced Adam to live by that.  It was Adam who chose to live in that realm and as such, God was then separated because Adam chose to use the sword to divide spirit and soul rather than leave that to the Lord.  How in the world did I get into that . . .

Oh . . .dealing with focusing on where my wrongs are versus my rights.  If God is returning us to our origin in the garden, then we should also relinquish this attempt to weld a sword that wasn't really ours in the first place.  Let the Word of God do the dividing without my natural reasoning to pervert the propper way of dividing flesh from spirit.

What's the use of Jesus?  God has a destiny for everyone of us to manifest His glory on this earth.  Until wel come to the cross, this destiny will never be realized.  There is a place that is so far beyond our comprehension that even when you enter it, you still can't grasp it's vastness, let alone explain it to anyone else.  But the door of grace still has already prepared to receive us into it, but without acknowledging Christ is my Messiah, I will never be able to know what it's like to go through tribulation with a glow on my face.  I'll never have sustaining peace of mind.  I'll never stop worrying about the next catastrophy that may or may not happen.  I'll have no hope, period.

The church has used the threat of hell to try to build a relationship with Love . . . I still can't say that without smirking.  Oh . .that reminds me, this thought struck me a little earlier today.  In Acts 26 Paul is presented before a king . . .including all of the pomp and circumstance that goes along with that.  And he had the floor to testify to this king his beliefs.  And as important of a meeting as this was . . .NOT ONCE did Paul even HINT at the idea that it's either Jesus or hell.  Not once.

If Paul never felt impressed to influence the king to repent or go to hell . . .how is it that the church we have now can't think about anything else "but" that?

Offline studier

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Re: Punishment/correction lasts 1 day?
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2008, 01:42:46 AM »
Mark 9:49-50  or every one shall be salted with fire .... Salt is good ....
Hebrews 12:29  For our God is a consuming fire
No idea why; but I more and more get the feeling everyone is going to "hell"

Nope not everyone is going to hell. You need to read more Scripture than to make your conclusion based on two Scriptures taken out of context. Salted with fire, versus being thrown into fire is two different things. Everyone is salted with fire, but some are saved being thrown to the fire.

martincisneros

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Re: Punishment/correction lasts 1 day?
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2008, 03:22:21 AM »
Mark 9:49-50  or every one shall be salted with fire .... Salt is good ....
Hebrews 12:29  For our God is a consuming fire
No idea why; but I more and more get the feeling everyone is going to "hell"

Nope not everyone is going to hell. You need to read more Scripture than to make your conclusion based on two Scriptures taken out of context. Salted with fire, versus being thrown into fire is two different things. Everyone is salted with fire, but some are saved being thrown to the fire.

Hi WhiteWings,

I think it's a stage that many Christian Universalists go through.  I was definitely there for a while.  Elhanan Winchester is even accused of having taught that, although I've never read where he's supposed to have ever said it in print, if he ever did.  But there's still a couple of things that he wrote that I haven't read yet.  I haven't found very many copies in exceptional condition of his Lectures on the Prophecies that Remain to be Fulfilled that have been less than $1200 although we're only talking about a two book set.  I really want to read those, though, because I'm having doubts that he was Premillenial from what I have read of his stuff, although there's a website or two that'll dogmatically assert that he was Premillenial.

All have the threat hanging over their heads of going to Hell if they blow off His commands to diligence, fruitfulness, and some other things.  St. Paul's writings even include a step by step plan for not inheriting the Kingdom (1Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21).  J. Preston Eby's writings put the guy who buried his talent in the Lake of Fire.  Not sure if there's a translational "out" from that.  The passage that he bases that on does seem to say that!  *gulp!* :icon_jokercolor:  I'm personally trying to avoid doing all of the things that the New Testament even remotely implies could involve being shoved into the Apocalyptic Volcano.  Salvation is by grace through faith, but at the same time the New Testament says not to jack around with those things, so I'm not going to tempt fate.  If it's nothing more than unanswered prayer in this life and the gifts of the spirit failing to fully produce when I stretch my faith as far as it'll go expecting the Holy Spirit to add His to the end and complete the transaction if mine's not enough, then that's more than enough Hell for me to dodge because I need my prayers answered, I need the devil cast out when I rebuke him in the Name of Jesus, and I need the infirmed well when I lay my hands on them.

Offline willieH

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Re: Punishment/correction lasts 1 day?
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2008, 05:50:51 AM »
No idea why; but I more and more get the feeling everyone is going to "hell"

Everyone is "tried" in fire (which is going on NOW)... and ALL are destined for the DIRT NAP, which is what "HADES" actually means... (GRAVE - for you sophisticates)...

So in the "GRAVE" sense, ...ALL are headed there per GOD's WORDS...dust thou art and unto dust shalt thou return...

No FIREY torture of any kind to come...  :thumbdown:

HELL of ANY KIND, for ANY DURATION, ...is nothing but a FEAR doctrine which does not have a place in the GOSPEL of LOVE...

Only the "FIRE" of the SHAME of NAKEDNESS (Rev 3:18), which those shall appear in which do not have the GARMENT of CHRIST, concerning the report of their lives...  :dontknow:

Adam & Eve endeavored to HIDE their OPEN SHAME, unsuccessfully...  but GOD made clothing GARMENT (Gen 3:21) for them, which removed their anxieties of NAKEDNESS... and DOES so for ALL humans to this day!   :laughing7:

peacE...
willieH    :angel5:
« Last Edit: November 08, 2008, 09:25:22 PM by willieH »

Offline studier

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Re: Punishment/correction lasts 1 day?
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2008, 07:17:23 AM »
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HELL of ANY KIND, for ANY DURATION, ...is nothing a FEAR doctrine which does not have a place in the GOSPEL of LOVE...

Traveling at 50 miles an hour on the highway, you pass by a large bright yellow-black checkered sign says, 'Dead End'. A thought passes your mind, this highway looks great and I cannot see the end, even though you pass by a large orange sign with white letters, "Warning, this road ends in One mile, please take detour."

You scoff at the sign, "I am not afraid, I am too smart for that." You may even think, "This is nothing but fear propaganda, I am not afraid of any dead end. Why would there be a highway if there was danger. It is just some government bulls**t trying to keep me in submission and fear so they can control me and my actions."

One mile later, your car flies into the air into a sharp ravine and for 5 seconds you see your end and think, "Why didn't I listen to the warning? That warning was not to cause fear, but to save me from this end." Your car crashes head first, you are whipped so hard that all the tendons in your neck rip from your bones and just as instant, the car steering wheel along with the entire engine pushes through your rib cage and your heart bursts open. You go into instant shock, but small conscience remains unable to speak or express itself, and for twelve seconds, you sit in horror watching your blood flow around you. It is the longest twelve seconds you ever experience, it lasts for what seems like eternity but then it finishes.

Warnings, and consequences of ignoring warnings is not 'FEAR' doctrine, they are INDEED out of LOVE because LOVE ALWAYS PROTECTS! Warnings do not come out of "FEAR", they come out of wisdom and protection concerning the things that do harm us, or the actions that will end with undesirable consequence.

If you believe that warnings are out of fear, then that thought is out YOUR insecurity and YOUR denial that there are actually dangers in our life that we have been warned against. If this is you, it is you who is UNABLE in distinguish between reality and your belief system, fact versus imagination, truth versus denial.

We all reap what we sow, there is a warning of the consequence and if it is not heeded, you WILL experience it in full force not experiencing any salvation from it. Though you endure such consequence but such consequence is not infinite in duration and will end and that end is the salvation for one who endures such consequence, a salvation assured by our Lord Jesus Christ. Then there are people who adhere to the warning and are saved such consequence because they never experience it, their salvation was found in their obedience. Like you, they will be with the Lord in the end, though unlike you instead of experiencing that consequence you must endure, they reigned with Him for a time working with the Lord to deliver you from your ignorance and disobedience.

NOTE TO EVERYONE:

1 Timothy 5:20
Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning.

Warning of what? The warning that those who continue to sin, will be broken off just from the blessings of God.

1 Corinthians 6:9
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived....

Ephesians 5:5
For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

If anyone teaches you to ignore warnings, do not listen! Warnings are not to cause fear they are statements of the fact there is danger to those who don't listen to them. You must run from those who teach you to ignore warnings, because it is their conscience has been seared and they have lost their sense unable to distinguish between good and evil. The blind leading the blind and they will not only fall but bring many down with them.

Hell is not a perpetual torture pit, nor is it inflicted by God. It is self-induced and birthed through the man who continues to live in disobedience. Even if there is no 'hell', there most certainly is the knowledge and understanding that you missed out and did not inherit the kingdom of God due to your disobedience. This part, can be called hell, is most definitely not a desired outcome. Though your salvation is to experience the Kingdom of God, you experience it as one with no inheritance in the outer courts of the Kingdom of heaven never able to enter into the inner courts and the Holy of Holies where those who have kept themselves clean may enter.

It is still an amazement to me how the revelation of Universal Redemption has brought an ignorance to the things which are without question have have severe warnings to stay away from. It is a befuddlement how the message of Universal Salvation has brought the stupid into people to forget everything that they were taught previously throwing the baby out with the bathwater. For those ignorant and stupid people, I pray that their eyes may be opened to the evil that they have exposed themselves to and have snared other to follow and repent and renew their clean their minds and accept a new heart.

Craig
« Last Edit: November 08, 2008, 09:46:10 AM by SOtW »

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Punishment/correction lasts 1 day?
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2008, 08:41:07 AM »
Fear and wisdom of things that are harmful are two different things. 

I suppose it would not be love to teach my kids to respect fire so that they do not get burned, burn someone else or kill someone.

I do not use this example flippantly,  down the street a woman and her two kids were burned alive in her home.  Unfortunatly she was a woman who did not believe in disciplining her kids because she did not want them afraid of everything.  It's the same type of reasoning my friend comes up with along with other things.  Anything he can find to say that there is no reason to change.  Thats not the gospel of love.

You can instill a type of fear that may seem scary but is indeed a respect for life and good things and it is healthy.  It is different that a horror filled picture of eternal doom and burning flesh that is just a teaching to appease the monster.

This idea that life is all warm and fuzzy because a person is comfortable in thier belief while tragedy and sin abound around them is a watered down gospel and might as well be a doctrine of complacency.

There is absolutly no reason for such verses in the bible that are warnings to do right, rewards for doing right  and warnings of discipline for not doing right.  Love is INDEED to warn us of the danger, not to make us feel good about the crap around us everyday and in our own lives.

The fuzzy wuzzy doctrine is exactly why my friend, whether he would "immediatly" get healed or not otherwise,  has completly given up trying to change.  Saying God just wants him to do that is ridiculous, and contradicts scripture.



Offline studier

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Re: Punishment/correction lasts 1 day?
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2008, 09:51:45 AM »
That is right Paul. A gospel of love that preaches no repentance, is not a gospel of love. Repentance means to change, and if there is no change, not prize to strive for, then it is not the Gospel but complacency and those who teach this, are salt that has lost it's saltiness.

Luke 14:33-35
"Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is fit neither for the soil nor for the manure pile; it is thrown out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Punishment/correction lasts 1 day?
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2008, 11:39:06 AM »
Mark 9:49-50  or every one shall be salted with fire .... Salt is good ....
Hebrews 12:29  For our God is a consuming fire
No idea why; but I more and more get the feeling everyone is going to "hell"

Nope not everyone is going to hell. You need to read more Scripture than to make your conclusion based on two Scriptures taken out of context. Salted with fire, versus being thrown into fire is two different things. Everyone is salted with fire, but some are saved being thrown to the fire.
When I write about hell I'm writing about something I have no real picture of how it looks.
But it's not the classic hell with a devils, demons and literal fire.

Craig: I listed 2 verses of the about 30 I have where God is represented as a fire. Perhaps all taken out of context but still I see God being mentioned/linked to fire in all those verses. Many of them seem to point to a 'cleaning activity'. Cleaning that might be unpleasant but will turn out in the most positive way. Aren't those warnings the 'dead end' warning signs of your example?
And if you ignore them you will crash aka end up in "hell"? And there being salted with fire because they refused during life?

I simply try to say if everything is love, happiness, fuzzy feelings, etc, etc why are there any warnings in the Bible?
All taken out of context too?
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Punishment/correction lasts 1 day?
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2008, 11:44:01 AM »
Whitewings, you're continuing to focus on the shadows rather than the light.  Of course we all have sin, because we are all still living in these limited and weak fleshly states.  But these things are not as big a problem to God as they are to us.  If they were, God would have immediately removed Paul's thorn.  And the parable of the wheat and tares would have been about the workers going out into the fields and pulling weeds.

When focussing on the shadow the focus is automaticly also on the light.
When someone enters "hell" s/he is a shadow but will leave as a light.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Punishment/correction lasts 1 day?
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2008, 11:52:01 AM »
I'm personally trying to avoid doing all of the things that the New Testament even remotely implies could involve being shoved into the Apocalyptic Volcano.  Salvation is by grace through faith, but at the same time the New Testament says not to jack around with those things, so I'm not going to tempt fate. 

Because I take verses out of context why not do the same with posts  :laughing7:

Martin, I see some warnings in your post. "not jack around", "shoved into the Apocalyptic Volcano". "tempt fate"
You also wrote positive things but lets as Nathan calls it focus on the shadow.
Tempting fate sounds like something negative to me. The concequeces of it will be the volcano (=hell)
So where am I wrong when I write about "hell"/shadow/correction/teaching?
« Last Edit: November 08, 2008, 06:17:40 PM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Punishment/correction lasts 1 day?
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2008, 11:55:08 AM »
Ladies and gentlemen,

Glad this turned out another heated/hellish discussion; but please also try to focus a little on the "1 day" part.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Taffy

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Re: Punishment/correction lasts 1 day?
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2008, 01:48:17 PM »
Ladies and gentlemen,

Glad this turned out another heated/hellish discussion; but please also try to focus a little on the "1 day" part.
ww the answer  to the title of this thread for mine is YES...

As
Christ IS this DAY.... :icon_flower:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Molly

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Re: Punishment/correction lasts 1 day?
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2008, 01:50:17 PM »
Ladies and gentlemen,

Glad this turned out another heated/hellish discussion; but please also try to focus a little on the "1 day" part.
ww the answer  to the title of this thread for mine is YES...

As
Christ IS this DAY.... :icon_flower:



Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Offline Taffy

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Re: Punishment/correction lasts 1 day?
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2008, 02:03:36 PM »
Ladies and gentlemen,

Glad this turned out another heated/hellish discussion; but please also try to focus a little on the "1 day" part.
ww the answer  to the title of this thread for mine is YES...

As
Christ IS this DAY.... :icon_flower:



Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:


IS Salvation and Judgment through ANY OTHER.....?

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed """""""""""""""""""""all """"""""""""""""""""""judgment unto the Son[/u]

WAS ""THIS DAY"""" the ONLY Day of salvation....?..IF SO WE MISSED IT,therefore YOUR FAITH is in vain sister

2Cr 6:2 For He says: ["In an acceptable time I have heard you,] [And in the day of salvation I have helped you."]* Behold, now [is] the accepted time; behold, now [is] the day of salvation.


1Pe 1:8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see [him] not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:


 1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, [even] the salvation of [your] souls.


1Pe 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace [that should come] """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" unto you: """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

Who IS THE END we recieve Molly, for the salvation of OUR SOULS?IS not Christ "The beginning and the END?

A DAY is Likened to a THOUSAND yrs, LIKENED to The tree of LIFE,likened to  THE END ,Likened to etc etc....which means they are the same...There ALL Christ Molly.

we been through this before....and before..and before.... :icon_flower:
« Last Edit: November 08, 2008, 02:25:05 PM by Taffy »
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Molly

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Re: Punishment/correction lasts 1 day?
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2008, 02:26:11 PM »
This day is every day.





6Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.

 7Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,

 8I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.


--Psalm 40





16He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. And he stood up to read. 17The scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:
 18"The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
      because he has anointed me
      to preach good news to the poor.
   He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
      and recovery of sight for the blind,
   to release the oppressed,
    19to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."

--Luke 4



8For I the LORD love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.

 9And their seed shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people: all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed which the LORD hath blessed.

 10I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

 11For as the earth bringeth forth her bud, and as the garden causeth the things that are sown in it to spring forth; so the Lord GOD will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.


--Isa 61

Offline Taffy

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Re: Punishment/correction lasts 1 day?
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2008, 02:31:18 PM »
No answer Molly :HeartThrob:

WW, all for mine is done in ONE DAY.,,As I believe the Scriptures testify


Molly..
what  Judgment does the LORD LOVE?..thoughts?
Quote
8For I the LORD love judgment
« Last Edit: November 08, 2008, 02:40:28 PM by Taffy »
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Molly

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Re: Punishment/correction lasts 1 day?
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2008, 03:06:51 PM »
1You people are in for trouble! You have made cruel and unfair laws 2that let you cheat the poor and needy and rob widows and orphans. 3But what will you do when you are fiercely attacked and punished by foreigners? Where will you run for help? Where will you hide your valuables? 4How will you escape being captured  or killed? The Lord is still angry, and he isn't through with you yet!

5The Lord says:
   I am furious! And I will use the king of Assyria as a club 6to beat down you godless people. I am angry with you, and I will send him to attack you. He will take what he wants and walk on you like mud in the streets. 7He has even bigger plans in mind, because he wants to destroy many nations. 8The king of Assyria says:

   My army commanders are kings! 9They have already captured  the cities of Calno, Carchemish, Hamath, Arpad, Samaria, and Damascus. 10-11The gods of Jerusalem and Samaria are weaker than the gods of those powerful nations. And I will destroy Jerusalem, together with its gods and idols, just as I did Samaria. 12The Lord will do what he has planned against Jerusalem and Mount Zion. Then he will punish the proud and boastful king of Assyria, 13who says:

   I did these things by my own power because I am smart and clever. I attacked kings like a wild bull, and I took the land and the treasures of their nations. 14I have conquered the whole world! And it was easier than taking eggs from an unguarded nest. No one even flapped a wing or made a peep.

    15King of Assyria, can an ax or a saw overpower the one who uses it? Can a wooden pole lift whoever holds it? 16The mighty LORD All-Powerful will send a terrible disease to strike down your army, and you will burn with fever under your royal robes. 17The holy God, who is the light of Israel, will turn into a fire, and in one day you will go up in flames, just like a thornbush. 18The Lord will make your beautiful forests and fertile fields slowly rot. 19There will be so few trees that even a young child can count them.



20A time is coming when the survivors from Israel and Judah will completely depend on the holy LORD of Israel, instead of the nation  that defeated them. 21-22There were as many people as there are grains of sand along the seashore, but only a few will survive to come back to Israel's mighty God. This is because he has threatened to destroy their nation, just as they deserve. 23The LORD All-Powerful has promised that everyone on this earth  will be punished. 24Now the LORD God All-Powerful says to his people in Jerusalem:

   The Assyrians will beat you with sticks and abuse you, just as the Egyptians did. But don't be afraid of them. 25Soon I will stop being angry with you, and I will punish them for their crimes.  26I will beat the Assyrians with a whip, as I did the people of Midian near the rock at Oreb. And I will show the same mighty power that I used when I made a path through the sea in Egypt. 27Then they will no longer rule your nation. All will go well for you,  and your burden will be lifted. 28Enemy troops have reached the town of Aiath. They have gone through Migron, and they stored their supplies at Michmash, 29before crossing the valley and spending the night at Geba. The people of Ramah are terrified; everyone in Gibeah, the hometown of Saul, has run away. 30Loud crying can be heard in the towns of Gallim, Laishah, and sorrowful Anathoth. 31No one is left in Madmenah or Gebim. 32Today the enemy will camp at Nob  and shake a threatening fist at Mount Zion in Jerusalem. 33But the LORD All-Powerful

   will use his fearsome might

   to bring down the tallest trees

   and chop off every branch.

    34With an ax, the glorious Lord

   will destroy every tree

   in the forests of Lebanon.

---Isa 10