Author Topic: Possibilities to ponder?  (Read 2016 times)

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Offline Lefein

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Possibilities to ponder?
« on: October 31, 2010, 09:04:38 AM »
<Link removed and replaced with a statement>

Families in Heaven?

While I cannot be certain about the validity of this, or the idea - it does bring out a serene sort of longing, and ponderings to consider, especially for someone who is like me, a romantic at heart who wants nothing less than the safety and peace and tranquility and the genuine undivided, unstolen, genuine, perfectly pure love offered by the next phase of life.

Tradition is always saying that there is no sex in heaven because of "no marriage", and no romance, or monogamous relationships of Helper-Helpmate: Only brothers, sisters, friends, and Jesus... --- well I dissolved that icky idea with God's help when he showed me that he is much more interested in dissolving outward pressure like The Law/Death (marriage is an institution of law), and replacing it, superseding it with total genuine true everlasting Love, that is free, and free indeed, sinless, no lust, and no swinging, no adultery, and certainly no hurtfulness, only purity, and joy; he showed me I believe, that he isn't dissolving relationships (and infact plans on enhancing them) and certainly not dissolving relationships based on Love, and the many expressions of it, including the undying romantic love that one has for their one true mate, the one they truly love, and who truly loves you back.  As far as the sex idea goes, well...that's conjecture, but if...our bodies have the parts...why waste them when we have our Heavenly Helper, our beloved queen...and a mansion with what I would assume is a very luxurious bed chamber?  :mblush:

God intended for man to be fruitful and multiply in the very beginning, pre-fall even...And this new universe will certainly have plenty of space...and there is no verse that says explicitly "thou shalt not know thy helper" or..."thou shalt never have children in the eternal life to come, but thou shalt be barren as the tomb"...not that I know of anyway...

Is it possible that Heaven will see children born?  Families?  What about the joys that lead up to such things...?

What are your thoughts on the Heaven to come?  The new life in general?  Will you enjoy a game of golf in the new life?  Tea?  But especially...will you enjoy raising children without fear and heartache, will you enjoy making them?

___ ___ ___

Note of Emphasis: On the subject of sex in Heaven; Heaven will NOT be an orgy, and any sexual relations, or even romantic relations implied are strictly that of the genuine monogamous relationship of a couple who will love each other unconditionally and eternally in what could best be described as a marriage relationship that is brought forth and sealed from the heart, the inside pressures of Love, rather than the outward pressure of the marriage covenant.

Sealed by desire for each other, rather than sealed by marriage who's purpose is to keep a couple together in a sinful world.  Where there is no adultery, or lust, or discontentment, or arguing, there is no need for marriage or divorce.  Because love shall bind the two, love that does not ever cheat, nor stray with the eyes or heart, instead of vows which do nothing for the cheating heart, or the lusting eye, or the vile abuse of the body to sin against your significant other, vows that only prevent the act, but not the motive or vile desire.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2010, 09:43:05 AM by Lefein »
CLV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred, it rouses up quarrels, Yet love covers over all transgressions.
KJV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Possibilities to ponder?
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2010, 09:20:17 AM »
 :cloud9: Lefein.....I saw a documentary about David Berg on TV. He was a proponent of his "family" followers all having sex with each other AND their children, and even created "comics" about such things for his followers and new converts, probably to start desensitizing his victims early.  :sigh: If you don't believe me, google him. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Lefein

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Re: Possibilities to ponder?
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2010, 09:22:38 AM »
Well...That certainly causes issues with the article enough to remove its link.

Still, the thought remains, I suppose that was what it was called for...even though I feel a bit...like a fool, but anyway...

...With their children?  I think this is one of those things that makes it a valid response for God to raise up armies and take out such sorts of hideous kings >_>

...but on topic...*puts away the flaming sword, and calls off the legions of armoured cherubim*

Although I did actually see a familiar comic on the page.  And it reminded me of a site that was full of ideas of Heaven being a massive orgy where I would not be selfish and share my beloved queen with everyone to "blessedly know" while I sit back and grin, probably the same guy, or else his converts now that you've mentioned a name (I'd wondered where such a heinous doctrine came from)

Of course that whole ordeal is one reason why I feel I had to insist in the original post on "Pure, Genuine, True, Monogamous Love".  And I've said it before, and I'll say it again, if anyone in Heaven even thinks of laying with my queen, there will be a war in Heaven that will make Lucifer himself envious. ^^

But anywhoo!  Families in Heaven...Ponders...
« Last Edit: October 31, 2010, 09:33:38 AM by Lefein »
CLV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred, it rouses up quarrels, Yet love covers over all transgressions.
KJV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.

Offline Lefein

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Re: Possibilities to ponder?
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2010, 09:29:23 AM »
Link removed.  :boyheart:
CLV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred, it rouses up quarrels, Yet love covers over all transgressions.
KJV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.

Offline Molly

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Re: Possibilities to ponder?
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2010, 04:38:23 PM »
:cloud9: Lefein.....I saw a documentary about David Berg on TV. He was a proponent of his "family" followers all having sex with each other AND their children, and even created "comics" about such things for his followers and new converts, probably to start desensitizing his victims early.  :sigh: If you don't believe me, google him. Blessings....

Horrifying.  There is a lot on youtube about this group.  David Berg and his followers [Children of God] are evil personified.  He was a sick perverted pedophile who used religion to further his goals.  What I can't believe is the mothers of these children went along with this.


Matthew 18:6
But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.


« Last Edit: October 31, 2010, 05:27:19 PM by Molly »

Offline thinktank

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Re: Possibilities to ponder?
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2010, 05:33:42 PM »
:cloud9: Lefein.....I saw a documentary about David Berg on TV. He was a proponent of his "family" followers all having sex with each other AND their children, and even created "comics" about such things for his followers and new converts, probably to start desensitizing his victims early.  :sigh: If you don't believe me, google him. Blessings....

Horrifying.  There is a lot on youtube about this group.  David Berg and his followers [Children of God] are evil personified.  He was a sick perverted pedophile who used religion to further his goals.  What I can't believe is the mothers of these children went along with this.


Matthew 18:6
But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.


On the contrary, David Berg was a true prophet of the lord, who brought great truths, such as salvation of all men and no hell and encouraged personal relationship with Jesus.

He was a great man but who had sexual problems. The familly seems a great christian orginization I hope to get involved with them at some point in future.

Offline Molly

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Re: Possibilities to ponder?
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2010, 05:44:44 PM »
:cloud9: Lefein.....I saw a documentary about David Berg on TV. He was a proponent of his "family" followers all having sex with each other AND their children, and even created "comics" about such things for his followers and new converts, probably to start desensitizing his victims early.  :sigh: If you don't believe me, google him. Blessings....

Horrifying.  There is a lot on youtube about this group.  David Berg and his followers [Children of God] are evil personified.  He was a sick perverted pedophile who used religion to further his goals.  What I can't believe is the mothers of these children went along with this.


Matthew 18:6
But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.


On the contrary, David Berg was a true prophet of the lord, who brought great truths, such as salvation of all men and no hell and encouraged personal relationship with Jesus.

He was a great man but who had sexual problems. The familly seems a great christian orginization I hope to get involved with them at some point in future.
You're kidding, right? :mshock:

Offline Lefein

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Re: Possibilities to ponder?
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2010, 06:01:44 PM »
I kind of wanted to avoid this being a thread about David Berk, and his sexual problems - wanting instead for this thread to be focused on the possibilities of what sort of life will be lived in Heaven/New Earth.

Hence, I removed the link.

So, shall we?
CLV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred, it rouses up quarrels, Yet love covers over all transgressions.
KJV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Possibilities to ponder?
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2010, 06:10:28 PM »
:cloud9: Lefein.....I saw a documentary about David Berg on TV. He was a proponent of his "family" followers all having sex with each other AND their children, and even created "comics" about such things for his followers and new converts, probably to start desensitizing his victims early.  :sigh: If you don't believe me, google him. Blessings....

Horrifying.  There is a lot on youtube about this group.  David Berg and his followers [Children of God] are evil personified.  He was a sick perverted pedophile who used religion to further his goals.  What I can't believe is the mothers of these children went along with this.


Matthew 18:6
But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.


On the contrary, David Berg was a true prophet of the lord, who brought great truths, such as salvation of all men and no hell and encouraged personal relationship with Jesus.

He was a great man but who had sexual problems. The familly seems a great christian orginization I hope to get involved with them at some point in future.
You're kidding, right? :mshock:

 :cloud9: I second that......
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline thinktank

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Re: Possibilities to ponder?
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2010, 06:19:16 PM »
:cloud9: Lefein.....I saw a documentary about David Berg on TV. He was a proponent of his "family" followers all having sex with each other AND their children, and even created "comics" about such things for his followers and new converts, probably to start desensitizing his victims early.  :sigh: If you don't believe me, google him. Blessings....

Horrifying.  There is a lot on youtube about this group.  David Berg and his followers [Children of God] are evil personified.  He was a sick perverted pedophile who used religion to further his goals.  What I can't believe is the mothers of these children went along with this.


Matthew 18:6
But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.


On the contrary, David Berg was a true prophet of the lord, who brought great truths, such as salvation of all men and no hell and encouraged personal relationship with Jesus.

He was a great man but who had sexual problems. The familly seems a great christian orginization I hope to get involved with them at some point in future.
You're kidding, right? :mshock:

I'm not going to judge an orginization based upon the flaws of one man. They admit his sin, which is very humble.

I don't know if he's a paedophile that could be slander, I have read that he encouraged loving all people, even if that meant that showed them intimate love. Not exactly a church doctrine, that would make people such as yourself  :mshock: and run, but that doctrine is no longer practiced  :laughing7:

I look at the fruit and this church has many fruit. What church alive has no sin or flaws? They do they'r best to hide them, thus they are pharisse type churches, I'm not a fan of pharisse type pride, I would prefer an honest church.



Offline micah7:9

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Re: Possibilities to ponder?
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2010, 06:26:46 PM »
Well, Im thankfull I have not heard of him.
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Lefein

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Re: Possibilities to ponder?
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2010, 06:30:33 PM »
Families in Heaven?  Intimacy (monogamous of course)?  Golf?  Tea?  Life in general?  Speculations, possibilities, ponderings?

Please, I didn't want this to be a discussion on the sins of man, I wanted this to be a discussion on the things to look forward to when we are no longer under sins at all.
CLV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred, it rouses up quarrels, Yet love covers over all transgressions.
KJV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.

Offline Molly

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Re: Possibilities to ponder?
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2010, 08:08:54 PM »
uh, oh TT is not kidding.

TT, you consider pedophilia and child abuse a 'flaw'?

Too bad this man is dead, jail is too good for him.

Go to youtube and look for 'children of god documentary' and listen to the testimony of the many children who were abused by this man and others at the direction of this man.  Evil, evil, evil.

Sorry, Lefein, but this is important, and you brought it up first. lol

Offline Molly

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Re: Possibilities to ponder?
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2010, 08:12:17 PM »
Families in Heaven?  Intimacy (monogamous of course)?  Golf?  Tea?  Life in general?  Speculations, possibilities, ponderings?

Please, I didn't want this to be a discussion on the sins of man, I wanted this to be a discussion on the things to look forward to when we are no longer under sins at all.
I'm thinking I'll just be working nonstop like I do here.

But, that's ok, I like work.

I might be more effective in heaven, though.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Possibilities to ponder?
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2010, 09:05:51 PM »
 :cloud9: As a side note.......the late actor River Phoenix who died of a drug overdose, brother of actor Joaquin Phoenix, their family was with this cult for awhile. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline thinktank

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Re: Possibilities to ponder?
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2010, 12:50:46 AM »
uh, oh TT is not kidding.

TT, you consider pedophilia and child abuse a 'flaw'?

Too bad this man is dead, jail is too good for him.

Go to youtube and look for 'children of god documentary' and listen to the testimony of the many children who were abused by this man and others at the direction of this man.  Evil, evil, evil.

Sorry, Lefein, but this is important, and you brought it up first. lol

I don't understand paedophilia, so to me it is a flaw a mental illness perhaps. I imagine that Paedophiles are full of the devil and hate themsleves as to what they become, for I don't think paedophilia is something that happens over night, but becomes an unhealthy obession with sex, where women no longer are enough. Paedophilia is more common today and the men involved sometimes are decent men who have zero help from this sex obsessed society. There are thousands of alchaholic help groups but almost zero sexual help type groups, because in this culture, sex is akin to god, I have seen some chat about this when a man does not want a woman or does not want his or that they think he needs medical help. it's not a great culture to live in if one admits they are holy and keep themsleves celibate, but is deemed as needing help.

This man accomplshed great things in the church, but it is possible for a man to turn away from righteousness and trample upon the blood of Jesus, but did the church help him to overcome his problem?

cardinal you call this group a cult? but isnt UR a cult from church perspective?
This group is the only one available that teaches UR, I thought you would love this group  :dontknow:


Offline Lefein

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Re: Possibilities to ponder?
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2010, 12:57:11 AM »
The problem with Pedophilia is a matter of biology.

For 10,000 years (secular time table) mankind's mating and coupling culture was that girls were usually 12, to 13 (puberty age) and the men where usually in their 20's to 30's, and onward.  Women as young as 10 where given to marry men as old as 60.  This was because humans simply didn't live that long, they didn't have time to marry late - the average lifespan of someone (factory workers especially) in the 1800's and 1900's was 40, a 60 year old man was venerable age, and soon to die; our equivalent of a 90 year old, or a 100 year old.

It is only in recent years (the last fifty or so) that marriage ages bumped up from early teenage (18) to mid 30s, and in the 1920's even 13 year old girls were marrying their older suitors, it was the norm, and the culture.

Of course, the problem is when you get the culture of today that all at once ostracises young marriages as idiotic, yet raises up unbridled sexuality as the virtue of the times, and on top of this, dresses up their eight year old girls like hookers.

It is a perfect storm that we, Society, have created.

Certainly...a man is not normal if he is looking at 8 year olds.  But the culture that condemns virtuousness, while raising lust up as beautiful has certainly created this terror, and fanned the flame of it into a firestorm.
CLV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred, it rouses up quarrels, Yet love covers over all transgressions.
KJV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.

Offline thinktank

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Re: Possibilities to ponder?
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2010, 01:09:46 AM »
we also have a culture of fear and false accusation. I heard that a company bought out a logo for their website displaying a man with beard holding a girl in his hands. One woman complianed that this photo is offensive because it's showing a paedophile.

I also heard where a piano teacher got arrested because when he was teaching a girl student he used his fingers to press on hers and guide them, that's was consdidered paedophila  :mshock:

Offline Molly

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Re: Possibilities to ponder?
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2010, 01:12:53 AM »
You can't defend the indefensible, so don't even try.

Offline thinktank

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Re: Possibilities to ponder?
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2010, 01:23:03 AM »
You can't defend the indefensible, so don't even try.

I'm not defending them, I'm trying to understand them so that solutions can be given before the problem gets worse. Many criminal are in jail that don't need to be there, they need the love of God to heal their lives and whatever evil they had to go through to commit evil. For many are treated with Evil when all they wanted love, they then become Evil, and then they are punished with Evil, whcih makes them angry and more determined to do even more Evil against all the Evil doers that society has done Evil unto them. Love is needed to break the cycle, only the most enlightened saints can minister to the really broken people, but christian beginers can help with the more petty crimes, such as children who steal a candy bar from the shop.

Ones own husband could be paedophilic and leaning in that direction in thought only and you would not know it. What would you do, help him out of his addiction and minister dleiverance from the love of Christ or condem him for having such evil thoughts and leave him when he needs you the most and then condemn him again, when or if he carries out such an action. So two evils could be stopped before they begin.



« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 01:41:03 AM by thinktank »

Offline Lefein

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Re: Possibilities to ponder?
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2010, 01:48:08 AM »
Let us not forget Molly, the purpose of Universal Reconciliation - All means All, pedophiles, rapists, prostitutes, homosexuals, and beastiophiles, and yes even the sinner who is equal to all of these in his and her wickedness - the lustful eyed heterosexual.

Shall we be Christ?  Or shall we be the crowd with stones around the adulteress?
CLV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred, it rouses up quarrels, Yet love covers over all transgressions.
KJV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Possibilities to ponder?
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2010, 02:03:21 AM »
I don't understand paedophilia, so to me it is a flaw a mental illness perhaps. I imagine that Paedophiles are full of the devil and hate themsleves as to what they become, for I don't think paedophilia is something that happens over night, but becomes an unhealthy obession with sex, where women no longer are enough. Paedophilia is more common today and the men involved sometimes are decent men who have zero help from this sex obsessed society. There are thousands of alchaholic help groups but almost zero sexual help type groups, because in this culture, sex is akin to god, I have seen some chat about this when a man does not want a woman or does not want his or that they think he needs medical help. it's not a great culture to live in if one admits they are holy and keep themsleves celibate, but is deemed as needing help.

This man accomplshed great things in the church, but it is possible for a man to turn away from righteousness and trample upon the blood of Jesus, but did the church help him to overcome his problem?

cardinal you call this group a cult? but isnt UR a cult from church perspective?
This group is the only one available that teaches UR, I thought you would love this group  :dontknow:

 :cloud9: I asked the Lord in the beginning of my walk how to recognize a cult because I was a totally blank slate and had no idea who had the truth. He said, "A cult always emphasizes it's error." This man emphasized sex with anyone regardless of age or marriage covenant, as being of God. Like Mohammed, he created a religion to accomodate his sin.

While I agree with you that there needs to be help offered from the body of Christ, and most certainly deliverance from this foul spirit (and it IS a spirit, I assure you), in no way is this "just a flaw". This is a spirit that seeks to destroy and as early as possible, the calling on a young person's life by saddling them with self-hatred, shame, and guilt. Many end up committing suicide outright, or do it slowly with promiscuity, prostitution or substance abuse.

This is a spirit that is generational, and I have yet to meet a person who has given into it, who was not themselves molested as a child. The reason is, in part, the transference that takes place when you join yourself to the flesh of another, even if that joining was not consensual. Being in a deliverance ministry as I was for the first few years of my walk, is akin to walking thru a myriad of the sewers of human bondages and sins.

As for UR, I don't consider myself a universalist, ect., so the label he attaches to himself means little or nothing to me. When I first started reading the Word, I only saw one kind of Christian in there, and my opinion has not changed over the decades. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Lefein

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Re: Possibilities to ponder?
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2010, 02:09:13 AM »
I fully regret ever making this topic.
CLV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred, it rouses up quarrels, Yet love covers over all transgressions.
KJV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.

Offline Molly

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Re: Possibilities to ponder?
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2010, 02:10:34 AM »
Let us not forget Molly, the purpose of Universal Reconciliation - All means All, pedophiles, rapists, prostitutes, homosexuals, and beastiophiles, and yes even the sinner who is equal to all of these in his and her wickedness - the lustful eyed heterosexual.

Shall we be Christ?  Or shall we be the crowd with stones around the adulteress?

Again--


Matthew 18:6
But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.


Offline thinktank

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Re: Possibilities to ponder?
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2010, 02:28:26 AM »
I don't understand paedophilia, so to me it is a flaw a mental illness perhaps. I imagine that Paedophiles are full of the devil and hate themsleves as to what they become, for I don't think paedophilia is something that happens over night, but becomes an unhealthy obession with sex, where women no longer are enough. Paedophilia is more common today and the men involved sometimes are decent men who have zero help from this sex obsessed society. There are thousands of alchaholic help groups but almost zero sexual help type groups, because in this culture, sex is akin to god, I have seen some chat about this when a man does not want a woman or does not want his or that they think he needs medical help. it's not a great culture to live in if one admits they are holy and keep themsleves celibate, but is deemed as needing help.

This man accomplshed great things in the church, but it is possible for a man to turn away from righteousness and trample upon the blood of Jesus, but did the church help him to overcome his problem?

cardinal you call this group a cult? but isnt UR a cult from church perspective?
This group is the only one available that teaches UR, I thought you would love this group  :dontknow:

 :cloud9: I asked the Lord in the beginning of my walk how to recognize a cult because I was a totally blank slate and had no idea who had the truth. He said, "A cult always emphasizes it's error." This man emphasized sex with anyone regardless of age or marriage covenant, as being of God. Like Mohammed, he created a religion to accomodate his sin.

But I could say that about many here, that people think that God authorized and created this very error and all errors in fact as being of God, but I don't accuse them of being in a cult. But does that mean by God's word defintion to you that you are in a cult  :mblush:

While I agree with you that there needs to be help offered from the body of Christ, and most certainly deliverance from this foul spirit (and it IS a spirit, I assure you), in no way is this "just a flaw". This is a spirit that seeks to destroy and as early as possible, the calling on a young person's life by saddling them with self-hatred, shame, and guilt. Many end up committing suicide outright, or do it slowly with promiscuity, prostitution or substance abuse.

I agree with you here, it's a shame that just because of one mans sins, that he cause many children to suffer their entire lives. One of the most sickening and destructive sins on the planet.

This is a spirit that is generational, and I have yet to meet a person who has given into it, who was not themselves molested as a child. The reason is, in part, the transference that takes place when you join yourself to the flesh of another, even if that joining was not consensual. Being in a deliverance ministry as I was for the first few years of my walk, is akin to walking thru a myriad of the sewers of human bondages and sins.

Interesting, so you see how evil, creates/causes more evil as I said.

As for UR, I don't consider myself a universalist, ect., so the label he attaches to himself means little or nothing to me. When I first started reading the Word, I only saw one kind of Christian in there, and my opinion has not changed over the decades. Blessings....

You might change it now and again, depends on what the spirit is saying to you in the present Now. For I trust that you are one who is very open to the word of God.

Blessings to you also in Jesus Christ, aka Yahushua holy name and thank you for replying to my posts