Author Topic: OT translation by Jewish scholars  (Read 2655 times)

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Offline WhiteWings

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Re: OT translation by Jewish scholars
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2009, 08:47:41 AM »

 
  Thanks Guys
  I guess WW found two different  types of writtings of the OT
   I was  wondering  what  Jewish fables are  anyways, the aprocrypha   maybe  ? 
 I am  not sure here ........... :mblush:
  anyone   got any ideas   what they are ?  :HeartThrob:
The Jewish works are in several 'parts'
Literal words of God. Interpretation/commentary. The teaching they where past on generation on generation in the form of unwritten wisdom.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: OT translation by Jewish scholars
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2009, 08:53:51 AM »
I wondered the same thing.  I did a little looking, and from what I can tell, I would describe it as not necessarily anything that's written in scripture, but how they interpreted it, pulled it out of context, added their own beliefs to it out of their own blindness.  This clip I found may be helpful;


"The New Testament church's mind set was full of examples of Jewish fables. These fables hindered the early church in carrying out the great commission.
Then it depends how many fables there are in the books I found.
You basicly can do 3 things:
a] Stick to western translation. Not very pure either.
b] Find a Jewish translation without commentary or just never read it.
c] Find a Jewish translation with good commentary.

One reviewer was very happy with the whole Stone Tanach.
But he suggested the multi volume version because that has much more commentaries. I can't find it.
Anyone?
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: OT translation by Jewish scholars
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2009, 08:57:31 AM »


  Thanks Guys , very helpful.... :icon_flower:
  sorry   WW , when you read this tomorrow ,if i got off topic ..
  :HeartThrob:
Your commentary is your view. No problem with that. It's just that I in all my arrogance decided I want a good OT. That's all.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: OT translation by Jewish scholars
« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2009, 08:59:33 AM »
Excuse me, WW, we got a little side-tracked.
As long as you/everyone also give book suggestion it's helping this thread.
It's good to know what to avoid.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: OT translation by Jewish scholars
« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2009, 10:35:16 AM »
Just an article: http://www.articlesbase.com/religion-articles/unique-translation-of-the-paleohebrew-tanach-558436.html#

Pitty they don't mention what translation they are writing about...

(list in reply #3 is updated)
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: OT translation by Jewish scholars
« Reply #30 on: October 27, 2009, 11:47:18 AM »
:cloud9: I think the Torah portion is perfect in it's entirety if no other reason, the Bible codes have been going on for some time, and the first 5 books are the only ones the codes consistently work on, which means, letter perfect.
That's the Hebrew. But how about translation. Bias can slip in. Plus depth can be lost. And possible the whole meaning of a verse gets lost if the 'added hints' of the Hebrew letters isn't there anymore in the English translation.

Searched another hour and it seems more and more there are only 2 translations.
Stone edition seems a safe bet. JPS-1917 translation seems a bit sloppy but the more recent translation is better.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline jabcat

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Re: OT translation by Jewish scholars
« Reply #31 on: October 27, 2009, 11:51:24 AM »
You're the searching king, so maybe those are the 2 main (only) ones  :dontknow:.  What would be the alternative?  Being able to read Hebrew?
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: OT translation by Jewish scholars
« Reply #32 on: October 27, 2009, 12:10:13 PM »
You're the searching king, so maybe those are the 2 main (only) ones  :dontknow:.  What would be the alternative?  Being able to read Hebrew?
Yes, or Greek. I think the LXX is a solid translation too.
But just being able to read Greek and Hebrew isn't enough.
You should be able to think and dream in those languages.
Otherwise you are missing so much depth you are better of with a bad English translation.
That said I think it's impossible to translate Hebrew to any language. It's not just the meaning of words but also the meaning of letters. Lets call in entry level Bible codes a Hebrew speaker notices with ease. Or every verse should have a commentary to explain the codes.

My list of prefs:
1] Hebrew
2] LXX
3] English by Jewish scholars.

For all commentaries are a very welcome bonus.
I ranked LXX above English translations only because Jesus quoted from the LXX. That's just that little extra to prove quality.

IIRC the Stone translation is done from a Orthodox Jewish view.

/EDIT
With codes I'm not meaning things like "Obama is the beast" type of codes.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: OT translation by Jewish scholars
« Reply #33 on: October 27, 2009, 12:33:44 PM »
http://www.amazon.com/Tanach-Twenty-Four-Translated-Statistics-Probability/dp/0899062717/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1256635762&sr=8-1

Tanach: The Stone Edition/White : The Torah/Prophets/Writings : The Twenty-Four Books of the Bible Newly Translated and Annotated (ASA-SIAM Series on Statistics and Applied Probability) (Hardcover)

Is that an extra bundled bonus book? Or of the main book?
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: OT translation by Jewish scholars
« Reply #34 on: October 27, 2009, 02:02:16 PM »
I emailed the publisher about the multi volume Stone edition.
Quote
There is no such thing as a multi-volume Stone Tanach.
What we do have in multi-volumes is the Rubin Tanach.
You can find that on our website at www.artscroll.com
If you have a problem finding it, just let me know.
 
Shmuel Blitz
http://www.artscroll.com/Categories/rpr.html
I'm wondering a bit if it's good or bad to have use commenaries.
It's easy to get lost in lengthy commentaries and miss teh point that's clear from conceise commenty like that in the Stone edition.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: OT translation by Jewish scholars
« Reply #35 on: October 27, 2009, 02:33:45 PM »
You're the searching king, so maybe those are the 2 main (only) ones  :dontknow:.  What would be the alternative?  Being able to read Hebrew?
http://www.artscroll.com/Categories/ra1.html
http://www.artscroll.com/Categories/rpr.html


Quote
You ought to read Spinoza's little book translated as "Theology and Politics" and availabe on the www. He discusses the inaccuracies of the Hebrew used in his day: He says that 15% or so of the words no longer have known meaning; and pronounciation used is guesswork, as the language vowels, and differing ungiven vowles would give different meanings.
The Hebrew and KJV text both say that 'he (meaning God) burried Moses" while the Greek text says "they (the people) burried
Moses. The Dead Sea text agrees with the more logical Greek, not the currently used Hebrew.
So even Hebrew translations suffer from their language being modernized.
But that can also be said about the Greek...

Quote
Although the Stone addition is highly respected, and used among many modern Judaism sects, I find this translation sometimes wondering from true biblical definition. In Genesis, the term, "seventh generation" is used in reference to anyone who kills Cain, and "seventieth generation" refering to Lamech. Even though these terms are consistent within this Bible, the Hebrew language does not render "generation" rather, "fold--or times over. Therefore, it should read, "seven times," the punishment degree of Cain, and "seventy-times" Lamech. This may seem trivial, however, an act of punishment that is done to any "person" seven-times more so then Cain's, does not necessarily mean to the subsequent "generations."
Quote
I purchased this book (JPS)because my Rabbi told me this was the most accurate of versions. I do enjoy the tone of the narrator and the way the writtings flow.
Quote
According to an Artscroll representative I contacted via email, the text is based on the Leningrad codex (L19), which is not as reliable as the Keter Aram Tzova or Aleppo codex.
The translation is not to my liking: it twists the text. Makes you doubt things you believed before.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2009, 03:57:10 PM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: OT translation by Jewish scholars
« Reply #36 on: October 27, 2009, 07:50:09 PM »
Quote
Jewish English Bible translations - Artscroll Tanach series
Mesorah Publications is an Orthodox Jewish publisher of Bible translations, rabbinic literature and Jewish prayerbooks. Their Stone Edition of the Chumash (Torah) and Stone Edition of the Tanach (also called the Artscroll Tanakh) have become very popular in the Orthodox Jewish community, and are in use by some non-Orthodox Jews as well. It is considered by many Orthodox Jews to be the best of the English translations.

Their translations has been criticised by a few Modern Orthodox scholars, e.g. B. Barry Levy, and by non-Orthodox scholars for mis-translating the text. The dispute comes about because the editors at Mesorah Publications consciously attempted not to present a straight translation of the text, but rather to smooth out differences between the plain meaning of the text and later interpretations of the text by medieval bibical commentators such as Rashi. More severe, however, is that the lack of scholarship by the editors is accused not only of misrepresenting the plain meaning of the text, but even its rabbinic interpretation.
So the whole translation is a Rashi commentary in disguise. The Orthodox Jew like it because they are a fan of Rashi. Something like that....?

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090705041559AA6ZXvc
« Last Edit: October 27, 2009, 08:00:09 PM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: OT translation by Jewish scholars
« Reply #37 on: October 27, 2009, 11:19:38 PM »
:cloud9: WW and Sven......of course the Jews changed some of it. Jesus basically said they did. But I think this is one reason why God took them in their own craftiness by having them build the Tabernacle to His exact specifications, to be used as a pattern for the heavenly things as Heb. 10 says.

IMO, they didn't realize IT was going to bear witness against them if they changed the written, so they probably thought nothing of preserving it's pertinent scriptures. After all, they were all about the "outer show" on everything. Blessings.....

On that note, it's interesting that the Jewish scribes wrote the name of G_d with no vowels, forever forgetting the sound of His name and the ability to truly know how to pronounce it.
But we, NOW, have the name above all names and the ability to proclaim the name, JESUS!

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: OT translation by Jewish scholars
« Reply #38 on: October 27, 2009, 11:39:52 PM »
And you think Jesus is how you truly pronounce the name of the Son?
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: OT translation by Jewish scholars
« Reply #39 on: October 28, 2009, 08:36:20 AM »
I'm getting that KJV feeling again. KJV is either junk or inspired. Same for the Stone edition if you read user reviews/comments.
According to the publisher the text is based on "Petersburg".
Can anyone tell something about teh quality of that text?
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline rosered

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Re: OT translation by Jewish scholars
« Reply #40 on: October 28, 2009, 04:10:29 PM »


  Thanks Guys , very helpful.... :icon_flower:
  sorry   WW , when you read this tomorrow ,if i got off topic ..
  :HeartThrob:
Your commentary is your view. No problem with that. It's just that I in all my arrogance decided I want a good OT. That's all.

 
   Bro , you are doing good , no arrogance lol joking or otherwise  :winkgrin:


 for me I have all but , tuckered out ...  thanks for understanding though WW
 
  All of you on this thread , thanks for your help ..  much appreciated 

  :HeartThrob: rose

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: OT translation by Jewish scholars
« Reply #41 on: October 28, 2009, 11:02:53 PM »
Quote
There are a number of excellent Hebrew-English editions of the Torah but until now I had been unable to find a suitable and concise Hebrew-English edition of the entire Tanakh. This new JPS edition is excellent. The others I have seen either use archaic translation (the old Jerusalem Bible) or are colored by the particular ideologies of their translators and sponsors (the Stone Edition Tanach, which is quite beautiful but whose value as a study bible is limited by its nonliteral translations -- see especially the Shir HaShirim --and because it includes only commentary from a traditional viewpoint). Unfortunately, there's no room for new commentary or annotations (other than technical translation notes, plus the traditional Masoretic notes), but you probably can't expect that in a single volume edition. At some point it would be nice to see, maybe, a 3-volume edition that leaves some room for commentaries from a variety of viewpoints, but for now the 1-volume edition is essential. It will make a good family bible or a convenient resource for study.
Quote
The Old Testament of the King James Version is based upon the Masoretic text, just like this JPS Tanakh.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2009, 11:09:44 PM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: OT translation by Jewish scholars
« Reply #42 on: October 28, 2009, 11:35:30 PM »
Galations 6:

14 Now may it not be mine to be boasting, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is anything, but a new creation.


For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is anything, but a new creation.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: OT translation by Jewish scholars
« Reply #43 on: October 29, 2009, 05:30:16 PM »
Galations 6:

14 Now may it not be mine to be boasting, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is anything, but a new creation.


For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is anything, but a new creation.
So? What's your point?
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline jabcat

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Re: OT translation by Jewish scholars
« Reply #44 on: October 31, 2009, 01:20:58 AM »
Heaven knows I don't want to start a sidetrack of "$18!!  Are you kidding me???!!!! :talkangry:"   I'd suggest if anyone doesn't want it, then just let it pass on by.  :duck:   :bigGrin:

But, WW, I found this on the Concordant website, but I'm having trouble finding anything in e-format.  It may be something to explore though.

http://www.concordant.org/catalog/index.html

CONCORDANT VERSION OF THE OLD TESTAMENT
The ideal way to read the Old Testament is in its original languages, Hebrew and Chaldee (Aramaic). But as this is not ordinarily possible, the next best way is to use the CONCORDANT VERSION OF THE OLD TESTAMENT. The same concordant principle is used in this translation as was used for the New Testament. Eight volumes are now available, each with an introduction explaining the features employed by this version, as well as the method of translation used to produce it. Boldface type, symbols and superior letters are used to indicate the words actually found in the Original. Lightface type indicates words added for clarity. Textual emendations are noted. In paperback.
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: OT translation by Jewish scholars
« Reply #45 on: October 31, 2009, 08:10:53 AM »
James,
It's not an option for me. Not complete. Paperback. Multi-volume. All things I don't like.
About e-format. If never seen a Concordant in e-format besides some half baked stuff. Always missing the little symbols found in the paper versions. No concordance with hotlinks to the text. I think that's one of the (many) reasons KJV is still so popular. It has all those things working.
From all the quotes I've seen on this forum the Concordant certainly is a nice translation but I never have been able to really use it because of the lack of the explanation of little symbols. I really like to see sample pages of any Bible I buy. There is so many useless stuff around. Not talking about the contents but things like:
- Print is so small (especially the sidenotes) that a magnifying glass is needed.
- Paper so thin the other side of the page shines trough.
- Very bad print quality. -> Bullinger Bible.
- Etc
I started this thread asking for Jewish versions. It turns out, as far as I can tell, that the Stone edition is very biased book like KJV. Not literal either. JPS seems a better deal.
Another good deal seems Youngs+Concordance. I know that's not Jewish; my initial goal was and still is a solid translation.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline jabcat

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Re: OT translation by Jewish scholars
« Reply #46 on: October 31, 2009, 08:17:26 AM »
I hear ya.  Maybe we need to get Tony going on encouraging the Concordant Publishing Concern to get busy on their online OT...the NT is there...If the OT was "up to date", it could be a really nice option.  Sounds like they're not there yet.

I saw what you were saying about Stone's, that it sounds KJV'ish.  If so, I personally wouldn't be interested.  The search continues.
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: OT translation by Jewish scholars
« Reply #47 on: October 31, 2009, 08:39:26 AM »
Quote
I saw what you were saying about Stone's, that it sounds KJV'ish.  If so, I personally wouldn't be interested.  The search continues.
All I write here is just second hand info I gathred from countless reviews.
According to the publishers and people that speak Hebrew the OT books are poetic language. Stone is poetic too at the cost of literalness (spelling?). Besides that according to some it's biased that poetic language is makes it unusable for word studies. Even according those who love the translation. Often Hebrew speakers that check the Hebrew for literal meanings. Someone called the translation a commentary in disguise.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: OT translation by Jewish scholars
« Reply #48 on: December 23, 2010, 12:39:36 PM »
The Aramaic word for 'camel' is written identically to the word for 'rope.' When the original scrolls were being transferred into Greek, an error occurred due to the translator's limitations. Matthew 19:24 is commonly translated as, 'It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of God.' This is an obvious 'non sequitur', whereas the Aramaic manuscripts read 'rope' instead of 'camel'. Rope, of course, is much more in keeping with the imagery of a needle, and is probably what Jesus said, and what was originally recorded.

Similarly, Matthew 7:3 says, 'Why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?' And yet, in Lamsa's version the word 'splinter' appears in place of 'speck.' The organic relationship between a splinter and a plank (or beam) is obvious while speck is more nebulous. Again, Lamsa's translation remains true to the imagery being conveyed.
The ninth chapter of Daniel contains the amazing Old Testament prophecy concerning the surprisingly sudden death of the long-awaited Messiah and the subsequent destruction of Jerusalem. A portion of verse 26 in other Biblical translations states, 'The end of it shall be with a flood.' The most well written and spiritually mature approach to 'The Tribulation' and the events of 'The Revelation' that I am aware of is David Haggith's, END-TIME PROPHECIES OF THE BIBLE. But even the ordinarily clear-minded Mr. Haggith had trouble correlating this passage with known history. 'Blood covered the land like a flood', he overreaches. It comes as no surprise then that the Aramaic manuscripts do not make mention of any unknown flood. Lamsa's translation accurately reads, 'And the end thereof shall be a mass exile.'
===> WW: That seesm at least historically correct because many Jews left the country befor the war (that ended when the Temple was burned down)

Finally, I'd like to elaborate on the comment of brother Ram Munjal from his good 2004, Jan. 21 review: All Bibles tell us that from the Cross, Jesus (quoting Psalm 22:1) cried out, 'My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?' (See Matthew 27:46) This verse has undoubtedly disturbed people for centuries, and no wonder - it is extremely unlikely that Jesus ever felt utterly abandoned by God while He was hanging on the Cross. The Messiah had been promised His Father's abiding Presence! Nothing happened to Jesus that He was not mentally prepared for. He told His disciples in advance what to expect : He would be mocked, spat upon, beaten, and killed, but that three days later He would rise again. (Mark 10:34) He also said to them, 'you will be scattered...and will leave Me alone. And yet I am not alone, because The Father is with Me.' (John 16:32) Was Jesus mistaken? Or is the translation inaccurate?

'Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?' (My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?) correctly appears in the Aramaic manuscripts as, 'Eli, Eli, lemana shabakthani' (My God, My God, for this I was spared [this was my destiny.]) Indeed! At different times mobs had attempted to kill Jesus, but He was always SPARED because it was His Will and His DESTINY to take mankind's sins to the Cross to be washed clean in His Blood. The Aramaic phrases are so similar that it is easy to understand how the mistake was made, but the meanings are worlds apart, and Lamsa's version is much more consistent with the Mission of The Christ. Trying to correlate the mistranslation, Christian theologians have been forced to create a flimsy dogma (Jesus being separated from God while descending into hell) in order to cover for this improbable utterance from our Lord while He was suffering on the Cross. Lamsa resolves this dilemma in a far more satisfactory manner. Furthermore, according to the Aramaic Scriptures, Psalm 22:1 doesn't read, 'Why have You forsaken Me?' in the first place, but rather, 'Why has thou let Me to live?'
[1] GENESIS 2:20
Lamsa's translation:
And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to all fowls of the air, and to all wild beasts; but for Adam there was not found a helper who was equal to him.
NIV translation:
So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field. But for Adam no suitable helper was found
Note the word "EQUAL" in lamsa's translation. Woman is equal to man.
[2] 1 CHRONICLES 16:42
Lamsa's translation:
And these righteous men gave thanks not with the instruments of singing, neither with the tambourines nor with timbrels nor with the curved trumpets nor with the straight trumpets nor with the cymbals, but with a pleasant mouth and with pure and perfect prayer and with righteousness and with purity to the LORD God of hosts, the God of Israel.
NIV translation:
Heman and Jeduthan were responsible for the sounding of the trumpets and cymbals and for the playing of the other instruments for sacred song. The sons of Jeduthan were stationed at the gate.
Note that in NIV the verse has been chopped off.
[3] PSALM 22:1
Lamsa's translation:
My God, my God, why hast Thou let me to live?.....
NIV translation:
My God, my God, why have you forsaken me.

It needs to be noted that the NIV translation borders on blasphemy. When Lord Eshoo was on the cross, He quoted this Psalm(Matthew 27:46). God was with Him on the cross otherwise He would not have been able to endure the torture of the cross from the hands of cruel and wicked Romans. Lord Eshoo before going to the cross had told his disciples that " For behold the hour is coming, and it has now come, when you will be dispersed, every man to his own country, and you will leave me alone; and yet I am never alone because the Father is with me (JOHN 16:32)." He would never contradict Himself little later.
[4] MALACHI 3:6
Lamsa's translation:
For I am the LORD, I change not; but you sons of Jacob have not departed from your iniquities.
NIV translation:
I the LORD do not change. So you, O descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed.
Note: Once again NIV translation is messed up. This verse 6 in Lamsa's translation links perfectly well with the previous verse 5 and the verse 7 that follows. NIV does not make any sense.
[5] MATTHEW 6:13
Lamsa's translation:
And do not let us enter into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory for ever and ever. Amen
NIV translation:
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.
Note NIV chops off the verse. Furthermore NIV translation is pathetic. James writes: "God does not tempt any man. But every man is tempted by his own lust(James 1:13,14).
[6] LUKE 14:26
Lamsa's translation:
He who comes to Me and does not put aside his father and his mother and his brothers and his sisters and his wife and his children and even his own life can not be a disciple to me.
NIV translation:
If any one comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters, yes even his own life, he can not be My disciple.
Note the word "hate" in NIV translation. In the sermon on the mount LORD ESHOO MESHIHA said:"Do not suppose that I have come to weaken the law or the prophets; I have not come to weaken, but to fulfil.(Matthew 5:17)". Law says honor your mother and father. Use of the word "hate" in NIV translation is unfortunate and borders on trashing the Ten Commandments.
[7] ROMANS 9:13
Lamsa's translation:
As it is written, Jacob have I loved but Esau have I set aside.
NIV translation:
Just as it is written: " Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."
Note again the improper use of the word "hate".

EPHESIANS 6:12
Lamsa's translation:
For your conflict is not only with flesh and blood, but also with the angels, and with powers, with the rulers of this world of darkness, and with the evil spirits under the heaven.
NIV translation:
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
Note the word "Only" and the word "also" in Lamsa's translation is missing from NIV.
NIV translators have shown total ignorance of the spiritual warfare that I am engaged in. The book of Revelation correctly identifies the enemies of the Gospel of the Kingdom of LORD ESHOO MESHIHA. They are Satan and his three allies. The three allies are: Beast out of the sea (Ruling powers), Beast out the earth (False religion), and Babylon (Gaudy Prostitute). Lamsa's translation of the verse is right on the mark.
I can keep on reciting. But I have proved my point. NIV translation can not be trusted. King James version is no better.
Sincerely and Cordially
Dr. Ram Munjal, Ph.D.; S.S.
The Lamsa Bible is then a step forward, but still, Lamsa was apparently afraid of offending too many people with his groundbreaking version, so he relied upon the King James translation in large part for style and form, making thousands of corrections to the Bible from the Aramaic texts and applying it to the more accepted form.

http://www.amazon.com/Holy-Bible-Ancient-Translation-Pecrapta/dp/0060649232/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top


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1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...