Obama may be a fraud

[jabcat]

My concerns are many, but include increasing socialism issues (neither party innocent, but I believe Obama to be more extreme), abortion issues (neither party innocent, Obama more extreme), increasing illegitimate benefits for illegal aliens (neither innocent, Obama more extreme), to name a few.  With all the faults of both parties (and all of us in general), I'm still not sure how Obama is the least of two evils.

I took a poll on issues.  I came out 52% McCain, 48% Obama.  The results stated "you don't like either candidate, perhaps you'd be better served with an independent".  Bingo!  But I'm afraid the chances are slim to none right now that an independent could win, especially in the current corrupt environment of politics.

If things continue to deteriorate, perhaps there really will be a revolution of sorts and an independent candidate, truly based upon issues and "what's best" will someday have a chance.

Either way, scripture states there's no authority that isn't placed there by God.  IMO, that doesn't necessarily mean the "best" person is in office, but the one that fulfills God's plans.  I think of Israel and their demanding a king...God gave them what they wanted.  Not because it was "best" in a sense, but it worked in His plan to teach them.  It seems to me in this election there truly is a veil over many eyes, causing them to be unable to see the danger, deception, and probable consequences.

God's will will be done...let's pray accordingly.

Just my current opinion and understanding. 

God's blessing, James.

[Molly]

I took a poll on issues.  I came out 52% McCain, 48% Obama.  The results stated "you don't like either candidate, perhaps you'd be better served with an independent".  Bingo!  But I'm afraid the chances are slim to none right now that an independent could win, especially in the current corrupt environment of politics.

Hi Jab-- it turns out that most people (something like 68 percent) just don't vote because they don't perceive either of the two main parties offering them a choice.  Others say they are voting for [the lessor of two] evil (s).  Do we really have to vote for 'evil'? I have read a stat that the winning candidate is elected by about 15 per cent of the population, therefore, and most of those don't even like him.

How pathetic is this?  Want to make your vote count?  Pick one of the excellent third party candidates and cast your vote for someone you really like.   

[sparrow]

It is also not a matter of white vs. black (Obama is not really black but a cross of black and white) .

Do you want to bet???

and about "not really black". Please, Tony... take off the blinders. If you have ONE DROP of black blood, you are BLACK. If Obama walks into a store, he is a BLACK man, and I guarantee most of the store clerks are going to look at him harder.

Do racists not want Obama to be considered "Black"? because he may become President of the U.S. and they can't deal with the thought of that? ABSOLUTELY.

There is still a LOT of racism in this country, and this election has shined a spotlight on a lot of the HIDDEN racism in this country.

If you don't know enough about being black in this country and what that means, then it's best a person not say anything at all regarding the subject, otherwise they make themselves out to be foolish. Racism is a very DEEP, and VERY COMPLICATED issue. There are many shades of grey.

Obama is a black man. and I hope he becomes our first black president.
I know all of the former slaves in heaven will be cheering.
He is a good man. He has a good family. And I believe he has what it takes to run this country and to help turn things around for the better.


GO OBAMA.

[martincisneros]

Well, Sparrow, if we're going to go on the one drop principle, then that probably pretty much covers all of us that can't vouch for our last 20 generations being from elsewhere, with other skin tones, etc.

Molly, so called "good men" don't want to run or they get eliminated in the primaries.  Doesn't matter which party or Independent situation you're talking about.  As a brief example that in my mind includes a few other names, I'd of been perfectly happy voting for Rudy Giuliani.  (Anybody other than McCain!!!!!)  But he wasn't cut throat enough to get through the primaries.  A few months ago, the Presidential candidate for the Democratic party was nearly Hillary Clinton.  I was hoping she wouldn't be.  I couldn't handle 4 more years of "I did not have sex with that woman!" with that boney finger wagging at the camera with obvious inuendos being conveyed to the camera, intended towards the girl in question and secondarily to those that didn't care one way or the other.  I've been voting Republican since 1994 and I'm not sure if I'll ever do that again at this point.  I am sooo sorry, please forgive me everyone. I am so sorry!!

[Tony N]

Actually Sparrow, Obama is not black. The other day I saw a woman who was black and I mean absolutely b-l-a-c-k. Obama is not black, he is brown.

I am not white either. I am tan. Obama's mother was white and father black. That makes him neither white nor black. He is a heinz 57. If his mother was oriental but father was white American but he was born in the United States with slant eyes would you say he was chinese? I wouldn't.

I'm not racist in the least and have had close friends who were African-American. I don't care if Obama is president or if McCain is. The point of this thread is not about racism, it is about Obama coming clean with where he was born. Do you understand that? So why go off on a rabbit trail and take us away from the main point of this thread?

Whoever is going to be president is not going to be ideal. The only ideal person who can rule this world is Jesus Christ.

And I'm sorry to burst your bubble but there are no slaves in heaven. As a matter of fact the Bible says that the only one to ascend into heaven is He Who descended, Jesus Christ.

[sparrow]

Actually Sparrow, Obama is not black. The other day I saw a woman who was black and I mean absolutely b-l-a-c-k. Obama is not black, he is brown.

I am not white either. I am tan. Obama's mother was white and father black. That makes him neither white nor black. He is a heinz 57. If his mother was oriental but father was white American but he was born in the United States with slant eyes would you say he was chinese? I wouldn't.

1. It's "Asian", not "Oriental". "Oriental" applies to objects, not people.
2. SLANT eyes? nice.
3.You know very well what I mean by the term "black". don't be cute. not funny.

I'm not racist in the least and have had close friends who were African-American.

Are you joking? Most people who have some racism views lingering in their soul all say the same thing... "I have an African-American friend." well la-dee-da. Because you have a friend doesn't mean you are somehow not racist.
Plenty of racists have black friends. You may want to check yourself and check your soul because what you have espoused so far is not generally things I would hear from a NON-racist.

And I'm sorry to burst your bubble but there are no slaves in heaven. As a matter of fact the Bible says that the only one to ascend into heaven is He Who descended, Jesus Christ.

Well that is YOUR belief. not mine.

[sparrow]

I'm out of here.
I'm sorry, my friends. This is a VERY deep issue for me. and I have little tolerance for racism in any form. From the subtle to the blatant. It would not be good for me to continue in this conversation at this time. I've been dealing with ignorant racist people since the election got down to the wire and my tolerance is at ZERO.
Peace and Goodbye.

[martincisneros]

Most people who have some racism views lingering in their soul all say the same thing... "I have an African-American friend." well la-dee-da. Because you have a friend doesn't mean you are somehow not racist.

I avoid making similar comments because I know that there's always someone ready to pounce as though it were prima facie proof that someone were one because it's such a hot topic.  You don't have to be a racist to be aware of racism, to have grown up around it, to be aware of people around you that tread on egg shells because of their location in the country, the local history, etc.  And when you're dealing with discussion boards, you're not going to be abundantly acquainted with someone's geographical environment, how they grew up, what they grew up around and saw, and the self consciousness that could work it's way into their consciousness with feeling the need to clarify "I'm not one of them.  My friends cover the rainbow of skin tones, beliefs, backgrounds, ages, origins, preferences, etc."  Let's just drop this 'cause it's such a charged topic that it's hard not to be misunderstood on both sides of this kind of topic that I'm seeing emerge on this board.  Yes, Sparrow, racists DO say that, but not just racists.  People that have been around racism that have been abundantly appauled by it also say that, particularly if their conscious or subconscious mind has detected it coming on the radar either around them, in the media, or in some other way.

[laren]

I'm out of here.
I'm sorry, my friends. This is a VERY deep issue for me. and I have little tolerance for racism in any form. From the subtle to the blatant. It would not be good for me to continue in this conversation at this time. I've been dealing with ignorant racist people since the election got down to the wire and my tolerance is at ZERO.
Peace and Goodbye.

For me, when I find myself judging, i look inward.

having "no tolerance in any form" is to separate from those who are "racist" and therefore a form of racism.  

"ignorant racist people" is a label that separates and therefore a form of racism.

Those who you see as racists, you have a "racist attitude" toward by pulling away and separating a "you" and "them".

just some thoughts

[martincisneros]

For me, when I find myself judging, i look inward.

having "no tolerance in any form" is to separate from those who are "racist" and therefore a form of racism.  

"ignorant racist people" is a label that separates and therefore a form of racism.

Those who you see as racists, you have a "racist attitude" toward by pulling away and separating a "you" and "them".

just some thoughts

You're 100% right, Laren, but I also understand Sparrow's pain over this issue, so let's just leave the race card out of this discussion from this point forward on this thread.

[laren]

For me, when I find myself judging, i look inward.

having "no tolerance in any form" is to separate from those who are "racist" and therefore a form of racism.  

"ignorant racist people" is a label that separates and therefore a form of racism.

Those who you see as racists, you have a "racist attitude" toward by pulling away and separating a "you" and "them".

just some thoughts

You're 100% right, Laren, but I also understand Sparrow's pain over this issue, so let's just leave the race card out of this discussion from this point forward on this thread.

No problem. 

I have the same emotions as Sparrow too, and definitely am not judging her.  Just thought i'd interject as I have found my judgments usually are projections from my own self that i've been resisting. 
 

 

[Paul Hazelwood]

I'm voting for Obama, am I going to Hell now?

[sparrow]

laren, I am sorry but you are incorrect. I am not "projecting".
and I am not the one who needs to look inward. What you've said is completely backwards in this particular situation. Having ZERO tolerance for racism does not make one "racist" in any way, shape or form.

Ignorant = willfully or unwillfully NOT HAVING KNOWLEDGE about a certain issue.
Racist = The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.


Some people ABSOLUTELY fit the category "ignorant racist" it's not some insult I'm slinging. It's an actual DESCRIPTION. Ignorant racists.


What you are saying may fit some other scenario, but not this one...sorry.

We should ALL stand up against racism. Whether it personally affects you or not. I'm not going to sugar coat my words because some of you think it's not "christ-like". A lot of what I have read on this thread have been not "christ-like".

There are a TON of people out there who do not consider theirselves to be racists. But they do not understand just HOW RACIST some of their views are, and some of their thoughts are... IT needs to be brought out in the open and examined.
Like I said, racism in this country is a very DEEP issue. Only those who are willing to examine it, and examine THEIRSELVES will EVER make progress. All of the rest of the people will stick their heads in the sand, saying "aw shucks. I'm not a racist..." all the while carrying with them much baggage that has to do with race in this country.
You can have a good heart and still be a racist. It's called ignorance.
Ignorance doesn't mean you're stupid. It just means you are UNAWARE.

I've said what I've come to say.
Thank you.

[firstborn888]

My friend sparrow asked if I would post to explain that she needs to cool down a bit before returning to this subject since her current 'zero tolerance' mode is so out of character for her.

I can testify that she is generally very good at seeing the viewpoints of others - but with all that's being said in the news and on the street and online (about this) I understand that it can test the patience of someone who is very passionate about these kinds of issues.

Blessings,
 - Byron

[martincisneros]

I understand.  I locked this thread merely to prevent escalation in all of the ways you can think of, including people who've not participated in this thread thus far taking sides and throwing this thread further and further away from what it was started on.  I was still praying about whether this should be a temporary lock on this topic or a permanent one, and am listening for the Holy Spirit's input on that.  If there was ever something that wandered way outside of Gary's firm intentions for the Tentmaker Forum...

If there's ever a topic that really doesn't belong on the boards, it's anything political, but I understood the desire for feedback on the opening post with the elections being a little over two weeks away and everybody being knee deep in media propaganda about it, whether they want to be or not and whether they have an opinion or not.  I was wanting to get into the coming election for the last couple of weeks, though, but was restraining myself hoping someone else would pull the pin on the granade, so that if the worst happened, it would simply be a matter of cleaning up afterwards without it seeming like I'd squashed a topic just because of folks not agreeing with my perspective or whatever I've been accused of before.  I still don't know what I believe about any of it, regarding who should be the next President.  I'm just going to be voting my conscience in the matter.  I'm not politically ideological about any political subject.  I just have certain principles that I try to look at. 

The race card is really not a good place to go on these boards at any time, though. 

Obama when asked if it bothered him that some would vote for him because he was black said that he was sure that some would vote for him because he was black, just as he was equally sure that some would vote against him because he was black.  He was hoping that instances of both of that would be few and that we've gotten past that issue for the most part as a determining factor in elections.  He was hoping that those folks that would vote for/against because of his being black would just sorta cancel each other out in their votes and that the election and who got elected would have come down to the issues, like: the economy, the environment, foreign policy, healthcare, relieving the tax burdens of the middle class, ending our war in Iraq but persuing the terrorists into the countries where they're actually at, ending our dependence upon foreign oil in responsible ways that wouldn't further pollute or endanger our environment, regaining our respect with other nations, etc.