Author Topic: Mat 25:41 everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels  (Read 2382 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

LS

  • Guest
Re: Mat 25:41 everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2010, 04:09:10 PM »
Yes I do.

Either we (mankind) are included because we're considered the 'angels' in the verse, or it was prepared for others, but God decided at some point to put 'us' (mankind) there too;  which would mean the plan changed from the original intent.
Purely playing devil's advocate here    :happygrin:

Who says God can't change His plan? Didn't He do that in the OT on more than one occasion?

Gen 6: "The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain. So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air for I am grieved that I have made them." "

Exodus 32: "the Lord said to Moses:"Now leave me alone so that my anger may burn against them and that I may destroy them. Then I will make you into a great nation." But Moses pleaded for his people and finally God said to Moses: Then the LORD relented and did not bring on his people the disaster he had threatened.

Jonah 3: "The Ninevites believed God. They declared a fast, and all of them, from the greatest to the least, put on sackcloth. When the news reached the king of Nineveh, he rose from his throne, took off his royal robes, covered himself with sackcloth and sat down in the dust ... When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he had compassion and did not bring upon them the destruction he had threatened."

In 2 Kings 20:1-7, Hezekiah was mortally ill and the LORD told him he would not recover, but after prayer he DID recover and was given an additional 15 years of life.

Numbers 16: "and the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, "Stand apart from this band, that I may consume them at once." But Moses intervened so that the entire community around the few who did evil would be spared and God "changed His plan."

There are more, but you get the picture ... He is God; how is "changing the plan" changing who He is? 


Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 13057
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: Mat 25:41 everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2010, 04:18:55 PM »
A change of plan can mean:
   
  • Nothing. I the Lord do not change.
  • Because He changed His plan the first one was not perfect.
  • Unforseen events forced Him to do so. Meaning He's not all knowing/poweful.
  • He doesn't stick to His plans. Meaning He can change every command/promise ever given by Him because He replanned things.
  • Exodus 32:14 would mean God admitted He did something wrong and needed to repent of it.
Admittingly your verses are food for court  thought; but the whole idea seems to clash with the whole God is perfect idea.
 
« Last Edit: December 19, 2010, 10:34:51 PM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 13057
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: Mat 25:41 everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2010, 04:30:54 PM »
YLTExod 32
[color=#00e0]14[/color] and Jehovah repenteth of the evil which He hath spoken of doing to His people.

Repented
נחם
nâcham
BDB Definition:
1) to be sorry, console oneself, repent, regret, comfort, be comforted
1a) (Niphal)
1a1) to be sorry, be moved to pity, have compassion
1a2) to be sorry, rue, suffer grief, repent
1a3) to comfort oneself, be comforted
1a4) to comfort oneself, ease oneself
1b) (Piel) to comfort, console
1c) (Pual) to be comforted, be consoled
1d) (Hithpael)
1d1) to be sorry, have compassion
1d2) to rue, repent of
1d3) to comfort oneself, be comforted
1d4) to ease oneself
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: a primitive root
Same Word by TWOT Number: 1344
 

Dunno, but there is something weird about the stem/mood of repented :dontknow:

Stem - Niphal   See [H8833]
Mood -Imperfect    See [H8811]
Count-1602

 

Niphal

a) Niphal is the "passive" of Qal-See [H8851]

Qal                    Niphal
He saw                 he was seen,  he appeared
He saw the angel       the angel was seen
He sent                he was sent
He created             it was created

b) Niphal sometimes expresses a "reflexive" action.
He guarded             he was guarded,  also
He guarded himself

c) Several verbs use Niphal,  although they express simple action
and are active in English. Common examples are:
He fought,  he remained,  he swore,  he entered

This form accounts for 6.0% of the verbs parsed.
 



Imperfect

The imperfect expresses an action,  process or condition which is
incomplete,  and it has a wide range of meaning:

1a) It is used to describe a single (as opposed to a repeated) action
in the past; it differs from the perfect in being more vivid and
pictorial. The perfect expresses the "fact",  the imperfect adds
colour and movement by suggesting the "process" preliminary to its
completion.
He put forth his hand to the door
it came to a halt
I began to hear

1b) A phrase such as "What seekest thou?",  refers not only to the
present,  but assumes that the search has continued for some time.

Why do you weep?
Why refuse to eat?
Why are you distressed?

These relate not so much as to one occasion,  as to a
continued condition.

2) The kind of progression or imperfection and unfinished condition
of the action may consist in its frequent repetition.

2a) In the present:

it is "said" today
a wise son "maketh glad" his father

2b) In the past:

"and so he did"       -  regularly,  year by year
a mist "used to go up"
the fish which "we used to eat"
the manna "came down" -regularly
He "spoke"            -repeatedly

3) The imperfect is used to express the "future",  referring not only
to an action which is about to be accomplished but one which has
not yet begun:

3a) This may be a future from the point of view of the real
present; as:

Now "shalt thou    See what I will do"
"We will burn" thy house

3b) It may be a future from any other point of view assumed; as:
He took his son that "was to reign"
she stayed to    See what "should be done"

4) The usage of 3b may be taken as the transitive to a common use of
the imperfect in which it serves for an expression of those shades
of relation among acts and thoughts for which English prefers the
conditional moods. Such actions are strictly "future" in reference
to the assumed point of relation,  and the simple imperfect
sufficiently expresses them; e.g.

of every tree thou "mayest eat"
"could we know"
He "would" say

5a) The imperfect follows particles expressing "transition",
"purpose",  "result" and so forth as,  "in order that",  "lest"; e.g.

say thou art my sister,  "that it may be well with thee"
let us deal wisely with the nation,  "lest it multiplies"

5b) When however there is a strong feeling of "purpose",  or when it
is meant to be strongly marked,  then of course the moods are
employed; e.g.

raise me up "that I may requite them"
who will entice Ahab "that he may go up"
what shall we do "that the sea may be calm"

The moods are also employed to express that class of
future actions which we express in the "optative"

"may I die"
"may" the LORD "establish" his word
"may" the child "live".
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 13057
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: Mat 25:41 everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2010, 04:45:06 PM »
God doesn't repent, or does he? Num. 23:19

How can Num. 23:19, which says God doesn't repent, be reconciled with Ex. 32:14, which clearly says he does?
[size=-1]Biblical Errancy Pamphlets by Dennis McKinsey Pamphlet 1 Q4.[/size]
The verses McKinsey mentions are:
 
(Num 23:19 NIV) God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?
[size=-1]Note: the word repent is used in the KJV and it means a change of mind.[/size]
Exo 32:14 Then the LORD relented and did not bring on his people the disaster he had threatened.


This is a typical McKinsey technique and beloved of all skeptics, read the scripture cold, don't be swayed as to what is being said or what commentators allege is intended. We should not interpret scripture with scripture, so we are told by McKinsey. (EBE, p 500).
In Num 23:19 these words are spoken by Baalam but are attributed to God in Num 23:16. God is comparing himself with the vacillation of men, and the meaning is clarified in the second half of the verse: if God speaks then he will act, if God makes a promise then he will fulfil it. Clearly, God is contrasting his nature with the nature of man. We make promises but then do not fulfil them. We say we will do something but then do not do it.
Now in scripture there are many places when God changes his mind: Genesis 6:6,7; Jonah 3:10; 2 Kings 20:1-7; Numbers 16:20-35; Numbers 16:44-50; Genesis 18:23-33. However it is usually because the disaster God threatens is conditional[/b], if the people respond by repenting from sin, or they humble themselves before God, then he does not bring on them the disaster he had planned. The following two quotes show that God's judgements are conditional upon our response.
 
(Jer 18:7-10 NIV) If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, {8} and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. {9} And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, {10} and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it.
(2 Chr 7:13-14 NIV) "When I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or command locusts to devour the land or send a plague among my people, {14} if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
Examples where God changes his mind in response to people are:
 
(1 Ki 21:29 NIV) "Have you noticed how Ahab has humbled himself before me? Because he has humbled himself, I will not bring this disaster in his day, but I will bring it on his house in the days of his son."
(2 Ki 22:19-20 NIV) Because your heart was responsive and you humbled yourself before the LORD when you heard what I have spoken against this place and its people, that they would become accursed and laid waste, and because you tore your robes and wept in my presence, I have heard you, declares the LORD. {20} Therefore I will gather you to your fathers, and you will be buried in peace. Your eyes will not see all the disaster I am going to bring on this place.'" So they took her answer back to the king.
The classic case is the example of the Ninevites who believed God and repented of their wickedness, Jonah 3:5-9.
 
(Jonah 3:10 NIV) When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he had compassion and did not bring upon them the destruction he had threatened.
In Exo 32:14 God relented because of the prayers/intercession of Moses for his people.
 
(Exo 32:10-14 NIV) Now leave me alone so that my anger may burn against them and that I may destroy them. Then I will make you into a great nation." {11} But Moses sought the favor of the LORD his God. "O LORD," he said, "why should your anger burn against your people, whom you brought out of Egypt with great power and a mighty hand? {12} Why should the Egyptians say, 'It was with evil intent that he brought them out, to kill them in the mountains and to wipe them off the face of the earth'? Turn from your fierce anger; relent and do not bring disaster on your people. {13} Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac and Israel, to whom you swore by your own self: 'I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and I will give your descendants all this land I promised them, and it will be their inheritance forever.'" {14} Then the LORD relented and did not bring on his people the disaster he had threatened.
God's dealings with mankind are far more dynamic than McKinsey imagines.
Tekton's comments here, John Piper's comments.

Does conditional really changes Gods mind?
Surely He knew before creation that condition would (not) be met.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline micah7:9

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 5959
  • Gender: Male
  • Mic 7:8 Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine ene
Re: Mat 25:41 everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2010, 04:50:38 PM »
I again have come to the slippery part of the slope for me, I believe what ever He did WAS the plan.

"Who says God can't change His plan? Didn't He do that in the OT on more than one occasion? " LS

Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Cardinal

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 8431
  • Gender: Female
Re: Mat 25:41 everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2010, 06:42:42 PM »
 :cloud9: Only slightly off topic.... :laughing7: God was testing Mose's heart when He said He would destroy the Israelites. Standing in the gap for someone who deserves the judgement according to their works, is the heart of an intercessor. And by testing, I mean God knew what was in his heart, but He wanted MOSES to "see" it. My  :2c: Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline jabcat

  • Admin
  • *
  • Posts: 9085
  • SINNER SAVED BY GRACE
Re: Mat 25:41 everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels
« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2010, 07:50:13 PM »
"Who says God can't change His plan? Didn't He do that in the OT on more than one occasion? " LS

I believe what ever He did WAS the plan.


Agreed.  God's not surprised by anything, nor has to go to a Plan B.

Offline Lefein

  • Bronze
  • *
  • Posts: 1170
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mat 25:41 everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels
« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2010, 08:14:46 PM »
Aside from the point that not every being in the universe is an Adamite (Cherubim are not humans, for example)

We who are Christians are ambassadors of Christ in the Earth.  What is an ambassador but a distinguished messenger, diplomat, and expressor of a higher authority?  We are messengers of the Kingdom of God, should it not be befitting that the Kingdom of Darkness would have similar things?  Fight fire, with fire?

The Messiah and his messengers; ambassadors, diplomats, servants, warriors, generals, kings, retainers, prophets, citizens of the Kingdom of God -- Adamite, Angelic and otherwise.

vs.

The devil and his messengers; ambassadors, diplomats, servants, warriors, generals, kings, retainers, prophets, citizens of the Kingdom of Darkness -- Adamite, Angelic and otherwise.
CLV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred, it rouses up quarrels, Yet love covers over all transgressions.
KJV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.

Paul Hazelwood

  • Guest
Re: Mat 25:41 everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels
« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2010, 08:25:25 PM »
Aggelos is not exclusive to being an angel.
But that solves nothing I'm affraid.
IF we are angels we are cast in the fire prepared for us.
IF we are not the type of angels mentioned in that verse, or if we are not angels at all we are casr into a fire that was not prepared for us.
Meaning God changed His plan.

Summary 1: God changes or we are angels.
Summary 2: We are cast into a fire that was or was not prepared for us.


Not sure what problem needs to be solved, It appears your still assuming that the word must mean an angel, when it does not.

Correct me if I am wrong. It may add more choices to your beginning premise.





Does anyone understand what I'm saying/asking?

Offline thinktank

  • Silver
  • *
  • Posts: 2672
Re: Mat 25:41 everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels
« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2010, 08:35:15 PM »

Purely playing devil's advocate here    :happygrin:

Who says God can't change His plan? Didn't He do that in the OT on more than one occasion?

Gen 6: "The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain. So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air for I am grieved that I have made them." "

Exodus 32: "the Lord said to Moses:"Now leave me alone so that my anger may burn against them and that I may destroy them. Then I will make you into a great nation." But Moses pleaded for his people and finally God said to Moses: Then the LORD relented and did not bring on his people the disaster he had threatened.

Jonah 3: "The Ninevites believed God. They declared a fast, and all of them, from the greatest to the least, put on sackcloth. When the news reached the king of Nineveh, he rose from his throne, took off his royal robes, covered himself with sackcloth and sat down in the dust ... When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he had compassion and did not bring upon them the destruction he had threatened."

In 2 Kings 20:1-7, Hezekiah was mortally ill and the LORD told him he would not recover, but after prayer he DID recover and was given an additional 15 years of life.

Numbers 16: "and the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, "Stand apart from this band, that I may consume them at once." But Moses intervened so that the entire community around the few who did evil would be spared and God "changed His plan."

There are more, but you get the picture ... He is God; how is "changing the plan" changing who He is?

(Note, this has nothing to do with the angels devil scripture)
 :thumbsup:  A lot of people think God is some kind of robot in the sky, but I think he's like us, has a soul and gets angry, and sometimes it takes prayer to heal his emotions, after all we are called the bride of Christ, a bride comforts her husband, but some out there think their husband in invincible, "surely he doesn't need any comforting", as a lot of brides think, he should tough it up and be a man, what as he got to do with me.

But in these scriptural examples the bride does comfort her husband, for the prayer of the righteous availeth much.
I am is here, and he has emotions, so watch out he might lose his temper.

So start sacrificing some animals and appease his anger  :icon_joker:

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 13057
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: Mat 25:41 everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels
« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2010, 08:59:05 PM »
Not sure what problem needs to be solved, It appears your still assuming that the word must mean an angel, when it does not.
Correct me if I am wrong. It may add more choices to your beginning premise.
I don't see how.
It doesn't matter how many groups of angels there are. Neither does it matter if we are angels or not.

Either we (mankind) are included because we're considered the 'angels' in the verse, or it was prepared for others, but God decided at some point to put 'us' (mankind) there too;  which would mean the plan changed from the original intent.

Question: Who are "those"?
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 13057
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: Mat 25:41 everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels
« Reply #36 on: November 23, 2010, 09:08:39 PM »
(Note, this has nothing to do with the angels devil scripture)
:offtopic:
:punish:
:icon_jokercolor:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline thinktank

  • Silver
  • *
  • Posts: 2672
Re: Mat 25:41 everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels
« Reply #37 on: November 23, 2010, 09:47:33 PM »
(Note, this has nothing to do with the angels devil scripture)
:offtopic:
:punish:
:icon_jokercolor:


Hey you went off topic before me, so have a bit of this yourself  :punish:

And here's another for being a bad example to the community  :friendstu:

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 13057
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: Mat 25:41 everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels
« Reply #38 on: December 19, 2010, 10:58:22 PM »
Aside from the point that not every being in the universe is an Adamite (Cherubim are not humans, for example)

We who are Christians are ambassadors of Christ in the Earth.  What is an ambassador but a distinguished messenger, diplomat, and expressor of a higher authority?  We are messengers of the Kingdom of God, should it not be befitting that the Kingdom of Darkness would have similar things?  Fight fire, with fire?

The Messiah and his messengers; ambassadors, diplomats, servants, warriors, generals, kings, retainers, prophets, citizens of the Kingdom of God -- Adamite, Angelic and otherwise.

vs.

The devil and his messengers; ambassadors, diplomats, servants, warriors, generals, kings, retainers, prophets, citizens of the Kingdom of Darkness -- Adamite, Angelic and otherwise.
I can agree with those names/titles. But the verse summarizes you whole second list in devil+angels. That would for example mean the diplomats are angels too.
The leader of the first list is obviously Jesus.

So aren't the groups:
a] Jesus and His angels. => A unkown percentage is Adamite.
b] Devil and his angles. => A unkown percentage is Adamite. The people that got judged by their works just a few verses earlier.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Quaesitor

  • Guest
Re: Mat 25:41 everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels
« Reply #39 on: December 20, 2010, 12:41:34 AM »

Purely playing devil's advocate here    :happygrin:

Who says God can't change His plan? Didn't He do that in the OT on more than one occasion?

Gen 6: "The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain. So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air for I am grieved that I have made them." "

Exodus 32: "the Lord said to Moses:"Now leave me alone so that my anger may burn against them and that I may destroy them. Then I will make you into a great nation." But Moses pleaded for his people and finally God said to Moses: Then the LORD relented and did not bring on his people the disaster he had threatened.

Jonah 3: "The Ninevites believed God. They declared a fast, and all of them, from the greatest to the least, put on sackcloth. When the news reached the king of Nineveh, he rose from his throne, took off his royal robes, covered himself with sackcloth and sat down in the dust ... When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he had compassion and did not bring upon them the destruction he had threatened."

In 2 Kings 20:1-7, Hezekiah was mortally ill and the LORD told him he would not recover, but after prayer he DID recover and was given an additional 15 years of life.

Numbers 16: "and the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, "Stand apart from this band, that I may consume them at once." But Moses intervened so that the entire community around the few who did evil would be spared and God "changed His plan."

There are more, but you get the picture ... He is God; how is "changing the plan" changing who He is?

(Note, this has nothing to do with the angels devil scripture)
 :thumbsup:  A lot of people think God is some kind of robot in the sky, but I think he's like us, has a soul and gets angry, and sometimes it takes prayer to heal his emotions, after all we are called the bride of Christ, a bride comforts her husband, but some out there think their husband in invincible, "surely he doesn't need any comforting", as a lot of brides think, he should tough it up and be a man, what as he got to do with me.

But in these scriptural examples the bride does comfort her husband, for the prayer of the righteous availeth much.
I am is here, and he has emotions, so watch out he might lose his temper.

So start sacrificing some animals and appease his anger  :icon_joker:

Oh wow, what a weak deity you have...

Offline thinktank

  • Silver
  • *
  • Posts: 2672
Re: Mat 25:41 everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels
« Reply #40 on: December 20, 2010, 12:55:25 AM »
weak  :mshock:

You forget your God. He is a God of mercy and compassion, you think that this is easy, to see every sin in every single human being on the entire planet?

Destroying things is much easier than creating, loving.

God created us human beings for a reason, and that is for us to love him as he loved us. The more love we show him the more love he shows us, because love heals all things. Love is something that is not based on one, it is based on relationship, as he loves us we love him, and our love heals Gods heart, believeth thou this?

Quaesitor

  • Guest
Re: Mat 25:41 everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels
« Reply #41 on: December 20, 2010, 05:52:04 AM »
Quote
God created us human beings for a reason, and that is for us to love him as he loved us. The more love we show him the more love he shows us, because love heals all things. Love is something that is not based on one, it is based on relationship, as he loves us we love him, and our love heals Gods heart, believeth thou this?

No I believe what the scriptures say about the Almighty God,creator of all.
He doesn't need to be "healed" He is the healer.
He doesn't need our love because He is love.
He doesn't need to be conforted or consoled or encouraged or lifted because there isn't an ounce of changing in Him.
He WAS, IS, WILL BE perfect.
Believe thou this?

Offline thinktank

  • Silver
  • *
  • Posts: 2672
Re: Mat 25:41 everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels
« Reply #42 on: December 20, 2010, 06:29:32 AM »
He doesnt need it but he wants it, that's why he created us. By loving him in return it makes it all worthwhile for him, he delights in the praise of his people, doesn't just sit there like a wet blanket  :winkgrin:

Offline reFORMer

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 1943
  • Gender: Male
  • Psalm 133
Re: Mat 25:41 everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels
« Reply #43 on: December 21, 2010, 07:46:06 AM »
Unveiling 228-9 (Concordant Literal Translation)
8 And I, John, am the one hearing and observing these things. And when I hear and observe, I fall to worship in front of the feet of the messenger who is showing me these things.
9 And he is saying to me, "See! No! a fellow slave of yours am I, and of your brethren, the prophets and those keeping the sayings of this scroll. Worship God!"

This "angel," here (in CLT) called a "messenger" says that he is OF John's brothers, the prophets and OF those keeping the sayings of the "Revelation."  It has been generally understood by me that many of those called angels are perfected spirits of the saints; that is, a saint's spirit, when brought to sufficient development, in this life or while the body is in repose, is what many refer to as an "angel."  Who better to supervise the servant spirits who quicken those in the earth into revelation of something like the scroll of "Isaiah," for instance, than the spirit of that just man Isaiah made perfect?

The cherubim are probably not to be classed as "angels."  Until the saints for whom it is prepared enter into the Resurrection, they are in the place that Adam failed to fill.  He was to "cultivate (KJV:  dress) and guard (KJV:  keep)" the garden.  Though representing, they are beyond representations of the sons of God.  They are expressions of the nature of those who will have dominion, the sons of God in manifestation.  (This is more fully brought out by Bill Brittain in his commentary on Ezekiel.)
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline Cardinal

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 8431
  • Gender: Female
Re: Mat 25:41 everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels
« Reply #44 on: December 21, 2010, 08:59:03 AM »
 :cloud9: :thumbsup:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

PaoloNuevo

  • Guest
Re: Mat 25:41 everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels
« Reply #45 on: December 24, 2010, 01:58:40 AM »
It's simple.

The "fire age-during" is the LOF... and the spiritual Brimstone can heal both Satan, his angels and those (human beings!) who are yet unsaved...

and in verse 46, we have "chastening eonian" so we know what type of casting away that is. Nuff said.  :thumbsup:

After that God will do Ephesians 1: 9 - 10