Present day miracles???

[Forgiven]

What are your thoughts on whether or not legitimate miracles are still occurring in the church age ???
Please, no miracles where the outcome is at all ambiguous, that is another question.

[arcticmonster2003]

well, I did see a 20/20 special about a church where people were drinking strychnine and handling poisonous snakes. After the special the 20/20 crew took a sample of the strychnine that they were drinking out of a canning jar and it proved to be near 100 percent pure stychnine. They were taking pretty big gulps of it too. I don't think 20/20 had anything to gain one way or the other in the testing. Afterall, its not like the story was one that any nightly news or 24 hour news wanted to touch.
Kinda off the subject but when I was in the Navy and stationed over in Japan in around 98 if memory serves (my 6 years in the Navy kinda seemed like one big blur), I came and visited my parents who were RV'ing in Casa Grande, AZ (located about halfway between Phoenix and Tucson). It was about midnight and all of the broadcasted TV stations out of Phoenix had a huge new story about a huge V shaped UFO that was just hovering over Phoenix, this went on for a couple of hours and seemed like one of the best UFO's ever caught on film. Eventually we went to bed knowing that it would really be a big deal by the next day. And do you know what. I never saw or heard or even heard mention of it on any news ever again. This is when I really figured out that we do not have a free press here in the United States.

Anyway, what I am trying to say is. If a huge story about a giant V shaped UFO can seem to disappear off the face of the earth. And yes they were filming it why they were talking about it and there were more that one news station filming it and reporting on it LIVE. Then do we really expect stories of miracles to be on CNN here on earth where Satan and only God knows how many of his fallen angels (could be millions) are furiously trying to deceive us and destroy us from knowing God.

Luke Chapter 10
17  And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
18  And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Revelation 2:13  I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

Revelation 12:9  And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.


Please note in Revelation 12:9 where exactly Satan was cast to. And note the Chapters in Luke that show he was cast out in Jesus's time. Cast out of heaven and to the earth. This was a great victory for the angels of heaven who no longer had Satan there accusing them before God because Satan was cast to earth.

Hey, this could even be ammo against eternal damnation teachings. Afterall, the classical definition of hell is a place of fire where Satan has power and reigns. (although not above those who serve God)

7  And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8  And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9  And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10  And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11  And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12  Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

please notice that the victory was in heaven, the world mentioned is heaven, and please note what is said about us on earth, using these thoughts and taking the classical definition of Hell. Then it would appear that earth is hell. Just a thought. But I wouldn't be too worried if you don't see miracles blaring in the headlines.

[hopeful]

Hi Forgiven!  Could you please specify what you would consider a miracle?

 
Hopeful

[crlnray]

Did I miss something here or what was the miracle?I am not sure what we were to post here.I just didn't get it.
crlnray

[martincisneros]

They happen with genuine regularity.  I've seen 'em happen in Churches that were too teeny to have any kind of the theatrical budget that's often the accusation of miracles on Christian Television.  I could keep you here most of the day and night with the stuff that's happened through my ministry as I've preached/prayed for others.

Additional question that hasn't been asked yet, but that should accompany a question on "present day miracles":  Do I ever feel left out when the Lord's passing around the grace/mercy peace pipe?

I don't think a long string of profanity would go over very big on this board. 

[Forgiven]

Hi Forgiven!  Could you please specify what you would consider a miracle?

 
Hopeful

Hi Hopeful (I Love that moniker), thanks for asking.
I am referring to the 1st Century type of miracles. Turning water into wine, healing the sick, raising the dead, casting out demons, withering the fig tree, etc. Just for the record...I do not know of a single case where there is no ambiguity involved...not a single one. But I would be very interested in hearing of one. A good example of an unambiguous case would be a proven case of a withered or missing limb being restored or a severed spinal cord being healed. An example of an ambiguous case would be a situation such as being "cured" of cancer or cured of AIDs for instance, where the cure could be attributed to the body's natural healing abilities or to a false positive or false negative on a medical test etc. So again please, just examples where there can be no other attribution than a miracle. For example, in the case of a missing limb: An accepted medical observation (photo?) of someone is missing a limb (I'll take a little toe) and then a photo with the limb restored. Or maybe a medically verified account of a quadraplegic whose severed spinal cord has been healed and they are no longer paralyzed. If miracles (supernatural healings) are still occurring...out of the millions or perhaps billions of cases of missing limbs or paralysis, certainly there must be at least one verifiable healing recorded.

Kind Regards,
Forgiven

[martincisneros]

I don't know if it's still available, or if I'm naming the right ministry, but I'm thinking it was T.L. Osborn that a few years ago was compiling an encyclopedia [set] of miracles that had occured in his ministry - together with medical documentation where the doctors were the ones going wowie-wow--wow--wow!!!!  If it weren't him, his ministry staff might know who I'm talking about with that type of collection. www.osborn.org

[hopeful]

Did I miss something here or what was the miracle?I am not sure what we were to post here.I just didn't get it. :dontknow:crlnray

Hi crlnray,   

If you go back and read the first post, you will understand.
The first post should be written by forgiven.

[hopeful]

Thanks for clarifying, Forgiven.
I like your moniker too!

Well, I certainly believe in miracles today   :Angel7:
but I don't have any medical or legal proof to show you- sorry!

 

Hopeful

[AbbasChild]

Hi,
I also had experiences with miracles all during my faith life. When it comes to healings, I experienced some of them when I worked in the healing and deliverance ministry for a while. We had people getting out of wheelchairs etc. No special man around, just normal folks praying for people. And we were mostly more surprised than those being prayed for. Thers is no formula for this by the way. Other people we prayed for had died and the prayer prepared them for what we called the 'final healing'. Most of the times its easier to pray for non-believers, because the healings seem to happen more often to them as a proof of our Heavenly Dad's Love for them as an evangelistic tool. But there is also no general teaching on this one. Just something I observed. There are other miracles of course like people being healed of epilepsy or schizophrenia. Most of the time when this happens the doctors would just say their diagnosis was wrong then, because they don't believe in the power to heal. But not all of them are like this. I used to work with mentally handicaped people and a doctor told me that they didn't know where certain sicknesses come from, but he would not even consider supernatural forces behind it, because that just didn't fit his worldview. Now, I would call this biased. I think that's one of the reasons why its hard to find a documented miracle, even though there is also a lot of fake out there for sure.

[Forgiven]

So I take it that, so far, the answer is no
Regards,
Forgiven

[hopeful]

But that doesn't mean that there's no miracles!   
 

[Michael Dankoski]

I definitely believe in miracles, but I also believe that we don't see them today much because people don't really expect them to happen, and I find that most UR folks shy away from the "miracle prayer" due to it's association with the old order healing services and prayer lines. Many UR people are fearful of falling back into the old Pentecostal thing, and just pray quietly, thinking more about saying and doing the UR thing than in genuinely seeing the miracle happen.

Here are some miracles from my own life, nothing spectacular as far a a sign or wonder, but nevertheless miracles:

In 1982 I was told I had irreversible liver damage, and would be dead in 6 months. In 2002 I was told my feet were so bad I couldn't walk more than 1/4 of a mile or stand for more than 15 minutes without doing permanent damage to my feet. I work in a factory, walk the length of it several times, and am on my feet 8 hours per day. Right after I got saved, in 1971, I got a stick in my right eye, and was told I would be blind before I was 30. I am using reading glasses to type this, and I only started wearing them 2 years ago, just to read with, and I am 55.

My wife and I moved to Tennessee 2 years ago from Arizona in a motor home which got 10 miles to the gallon. We had $400, and ran out of gas somewhere in New Mexico, and made it the rest of the way without panhandling, and always had food, yet no one gave us any, except twice. And we didn't ask. We had Baptists drive up several times, and give us $10 for gas, which gave us about 30 miles to travel, but each time we drove almost 100 miles. I even told my wife we couldn't be UR anymore because we were turning into $10 Baptists! Once our starter went out, and we were stuck in a rest area for over a week. One day a tow truck driver came up and said "I don't know what's wrong with your motorhome, but my church was praying and the Lord told the pastor someone needed a starter and selenoid, and I thought it might be you guys, so I bought you one. If you don't need it, here's the receipt if you need the cash." The same day, a trucker, who happened to be a moslem, came up and said something told him to buy 5 lbs of ham, which is a sin in his religion, and asked us if we wanted it, because he sure wouldn't and couldn't eat it.

I could also tell you about ministering to an 11 year old girl, and actual healings, but I would probably open up a can of worms.

So, you see, miracles do happen, and are there.

Mike

[Cardinal]

  Absolutely they still happen. I've shared my testimony to this several times so won't belabor it again, but I have had several miracle healings, including; a restored elbow that was crushed, 4 discs ruptured in my back healed, advanced cancer healed, a burn healed instantly, healed from a severe concussion I wasn't treated for and didn't know I had for 8 1/2 months. All of these were documented, triple tested by specialists, except the burn. As I shared before, only half joking, I thought for awhile in my walk, my ministry was going to be going to doctors, for "before and afters." They ALL had to grudgingly admit that they had no explanation other than the one I was giving them, which was; GOD HEALED ME!

And that's not telling of the ones I've seen God do for others.......so YES, miracles do happen. Referring to another thread here, but this is one of the reasons we "do battle" over the tongues issue. If God's Spirit is free to pray thru individuals, in tongues we don't always, or rarely, know what we are praying for. But the Spirit knows, and He could very well be praying for a healing to manifest somewhere for someone, and probably is. I would hate to hinder His work in any way. Blessings to all.......

[hopeful]

Hey Cardinal,    

Thank God for healing miracles!  I think what Forgiven was looking for is documented "proof" of a miracle.  You said your healings are documented.  Do you own those documents/records?  My understanding is that doctors are not allowed to show anyone's medical records, so it seems like getting "proof" would not necessarily be easy, especially if the doctor was in unbelief over the miracle.  I've also heard that you cannot own your records, only have them sent to another Doctor.  Is that true?   Hope I'm not being too confusing!

[Cardinal]

  No, I don't own them, and with the new Hippa laws it's not likely anyone ever will. I went thru hell and hundreds of dollars in atty. fees trying to wrest my son's medical records away from them, and I was appointed legal guardian. One of those knee jerk reactions, where because some of the wrong people got ahold of medical records somewhere sometime, now the right people are denied access. The police department couldn't even get the records, and they were investigating the crime.

[Forgiven]

No, I don't own them, and with the new Hippa laws it's not likely anyone ever will. I went thru hell and hundreds of dollars in atty. fees trying to wrest my son's medical records away from them, and I was appointed legal guardian. One of those knee jerk reactions, where because some of the wrong people got ahold of medical records somewhere sometime, now the right people are denied access. The police department couldn't even get the records, and they were investigating the crime.

Dear Cardinal,
Thank you for answering Cardinal, but this is still not what I am asking for. As I mentioned to Hopeful my parameters are pretty simple: I am referring to the 1st Century type of miracles. Turning water into wine, healing the sick, raising the dead, casting out demons, withering the fig tree, etc. As I mentioned I am not aware of a single post 1st Century example where there is no zero, zip, nada ambiguity involved. Believe me I take no pleasure in this fact. I would be "most" interested in hearing of a single verifiable instance. A good example of an unambiguous case would be a proven case of a withered or missing limb being restored or a severed spinal cord being healed. An example of an ambiguous case would be a situation such as being "cured" of cancer or cured of AIDs for instance, where the cure could be attributed to the body's natural healing abilities or to a false positive or false negative on a medical test etc. So again please, please, just examples where there can be no other possible explanation than a miracle. For example, in the case of a missing limb: An accepted medical observation (photo?) of someone is missing a limb (I'll take a little toe) and then a photo with the limb restored. Or maybe a medically verified account of a quadraplegic whose severed spinal cord has been restored and they are no longer paralyzed. If miracles (supernatural healings) are still occurring...out of the millions or perhaps billions of cases of missing limbs or paralysis, certainly there must be at least one verifiable recorded healing. Sorry if it seems I'm picking nits here, I certainly don't want to come across that way. But until I am shown otherwise my belief is that miracles ended with the apostles and those they came into contact with.
Kindest Regards to you and yours,
Forgiven

[Cardinal]

  Well, all I can tell you is from my own experiences, the doctors themselves had to admit they had no other explanation other than the one I gave them, which was; BY HIS STRIPES I AM HEALED. If my body was capable of healing itself from the terminal cancer I had, (or the 4 ruptured discs that made me bedfast for 10 months), it sure didn't know it, because I was a goner, as the month of hemmoraghing bore witness.

And I know of several I saw over the years, of people that came to my bible study, one with verifiable leukemia, who were healed thru prayer......What I will do is pray that an increase come to the measure of faith you were given to receive Him.....Blessings to you.....