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Author Topic: Jeff's rant  (Read 1178 times)

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Offline ded2daworld

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Jeff's rant
« on: November 15, 2012, 04:56:08 AM »
When I first discovered the REAL good news (UR) I was overwhelmed.
When I started talking about it with others, I was a little shocked.
I can see they believed ET because that's all they've heard all their life but,
once you've heard the really good news that NO ONE will be tortured for all
eternity it's like answered prayer - all the people they've prayed for all their lives will be reconciled to God.
God says in his word that all the people you've prayed for will one day
"come to Jesus" bow their knee to him and declare with their mouth that Jesus is Lord.
That's fantastic news - your prayers will be answered.
So what's the problem? Twofold. 1.) God isn't saving people the way the ET person thinks he should
and He's doing it on his timetable. and 2.)The ET person must believe that some people are so bad
that they actually deserve ET. After all, their pastor/preacher/priest has told them that we ALL deserve eternal torture but, for the grace of God and us, of our own free will "accepting Jesus,"Then a few of us will get eternal bliss being blessed.
They even tell the lie that "God doesn't send you to hell, you send yourself there by refusing to believe in Jesus."
Saving 5%?? The ETer's think that's the best that an omnipotent, omniscient, God can do? Gimmee a break

God has a plan that he implemented before the foundation of the world. Some are going to be "saved" while they are still living and will give an account of themselves after death, and some will be "saved" after death where they will give an account and be shown the whole truth, cleansed and purified by our God who is a "consuming fire"
Why would people turn their back on the Good News? Do they think it's TOO good so it must not be true, or do they just hate the thought of some really bad people escaping eternal torment?
« Last Edit: November 15, 2012, 05:03:04 AM by ded2daworld »
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No matter what others may say or write, only the word of God is the word of God.

Offline shawn

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Re: Jeff's rant
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2012, 07:23:53 AM »
Because Christianity has become much about believing certain things in order to gain entrance into heaven.  Believing heresy such as UR not only jeopardizes that but would also make them outcasts.  Also, many read their Bibles see eternal....hell...etc and think its open and shut.  Few are willing to research out on their own.  So, in most cases it's fear based.

Then there is a darker sect, people I believe think some people deserve to be tortured for eternity.  It's evil in a church suit.
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Offline ded2daworld

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Re: Jeff's rant
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2012, 07:30:18 AM »
I think so too Shawn. Hitler Saddam Hussein, Pol Pot are usually given as examples of people that should burn eternally.
They don't know what to do with Noriega since he "accepted" Christ, repented and studied his Bible in prison before his death. Same with Jeffrey Dahmer.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2012, 07:43:55 PM by ded2daworld »
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"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"
No matter what others may say or write, only the word of God is the word of God.

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Jeff's rant
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2012, 08:47:41 AM »
Quote from: ded2daworld on November 15, 2012, 04:56:08 AM
Why would people turn their back on the Good News? Do they think it's TOO good so it must not be true, or do they just hate the thought of some really bad people escaping eternal torment?

Beyond  and above the working of the god of this age is the God of Jesus Christ.  All things are worked by Him for His pleasure and purpose.  Even those who have experienced God in the new birth and the baptism of the Holy Spirit are blinded to the evangel, or, "good news" because they are unbelieving.  The Cherubim are still operating sWORDs of fire that turn in every direction to prevent access to the tree of life.

2 Corinthians 43-4 (Concordant Literal Translation)
Now, if our evangel is covered, also, it is covered in those who are perishing,
in whom the god of this eon blinds the apprehensions of the unbelieving so that the illumination of the evangel of the glory of Christ, Who is the Image of the invisible God, does not irradiate them.


2 Corinthians 43-4 (Young's Literal Translation)
. . . and if also our good news is vailed, in those perishing it is vailed, in whom the god of this age did blind the minds of the unbelieving, that there doth not shine forth to them the enlightening of the good news of the glory of the Christ, who is the image of God;


Subsequent to this exposure of the spiritual working of a veil (upon all peoples) which prevents the Glory (in which we are otherwise changed into the Divine Image,) the creation account is called upon as a parallel, the emphasis here being the world within.  It is a re-creation for God to speak in order that our passions and motives, our knowledge also becomes illuminated so we come into the Glory, perceiving the true nature of Jesus who is anointed for us.  We are dependent on God's freely speaking to us; or, darkness is upon the face of our waters and who we are cannot be ascertained.

Salvation, liberation, glorification and all God's work conforming us to the Image of His Son, are done in such a way that it is obviously accomplished by God.  We don't, and indeed can't do these works, not even with the Holy Spirit's help.  It is the Glory of God which He will not share with another.  As long as belief is in ourselves God cannot honor our faith with His light, His speaking.  But consider how it is that right now the treasure is in the physical realm, the dimension our bodies inhabit.  That must be unveiled.  We are going to manifest what God has wrought, the body being liberated by Glory.  The power and radiance of God is exceeding great.

2 Corinthians 43-4 (Young's Literal Translation)
. . . because [it is] God who said, Out of darkness light [is] to shine, who did shine in our hearts, for the enlightening of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.  And we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us;
« Last Edit: November 16, 2012, 08:08:38 AM by reFORMer »
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Offline Molly

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Re: Jeff's rant
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2012, 12:43:11 PM »
Light behaves as a particle, so that it can behave as a wave.


they would see that Moses' face was shining. Then Moses would put the veil back on until he went in again to speak with the LORD.

--Ex 34:35
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Offline lomarah

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Re: Jeff's rant
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2012, 01:58:45 PM »
Wow reF! Awesome!  :cloud9:
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Online onlytruth

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Re: Jeff's rant
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2012, 07:31:41 PM »
If everyone goes to be with God...we aren't able to judge anyone.Nonoe can be "better than".Hell is the option, when we can't forgive for some people.
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Offline ded2daworld

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Re: Jeff's rant
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2012, 07:46:31 PM »
What's weird is that we are going to judge the angels...I don't guess the ones that never rebelled but the 1/3 that joined the devil in his rebellion.
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"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"
No matter what others may say or write, only the word of God is the word of God.

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Jeff's rant
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2012, 09:01:36 AM »
Quote from: ded2daworld on November 15, 2012, 07:46:31 PM
What's weird is that we are going to judge the angels...I don't guess the ones that never rebelled but the 1/3 that joined the devil in his rebellion.

What God explains the stars, He says that they are, ". . . for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years, and they have been for luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth . . . and God giveth them in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth, and to rule over day and over night, and to make a separation between the light and the darkness . . ." (Genesis 114-15, 17-18 Young's Literal Translation)

The first opening of the sun, moon and the stars as "signs" is Joseph's dream where the stars bowed down to his star.  Here the stars are not angels, but the patriarchs (who are  men) that shed the light of the heavens upon the earth.  Yet the traditional interpretation continues, of "stars" as angels, from which is derived the extra-biblical doctrine that a third of the angels fell and went with Satan.  "And seen was another sign in heaven, and lo! a great fiery-red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and on its heads seven diadems.  And its tail is dragging a third of the stars of heaven, and casts them into the earth. . ." Revelation (Unveiling) 123-4, (Concordant Literal Translation)  I'm not convinced that the conjecture is warranted because the quotations used don't say so.  I don't believe it because of no scripture to hang your hat on.

Not just stars, but even concerning the heaven they're in, there's certainly something missed in most peoples' reveries about the place:  ". . . a battle occurred in heaven.  Michael and his messengers battle with the dragon, and the dragon battles, and its messengers." Revelation (Unveiling) 127 (Concordant Literal Translation)  It doesn't sound like anybody can escape the warfare by dying.

To go a little farther, death is not portrayed as so sure a way to "heaven" or, Paradise anyway, as is said in cartoon Christianity.  Not only did Paul go there without dying, on the day of Pentecost Peter says the proof that King David did not ascend into heaven is his tomb was with them even to that day.
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I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline ded2daworld

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Re: Jeff's rant
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2012, 01:52:52 PM »
"No one has ascended into heaven except the son of man that has descended from heaven"
« Last Edit: November 16, 2012, 04:12:40 PM by ded2daworld »
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"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"
No matter what others may say or write, only the word of God is the word of God.

Offline lomarah

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Re: Jeff's rant
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2012, 03:09:29 PM »
reF, God gave me a vision about stars/stardust the other night! Cool!
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Offline Lazarus Short

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Re: Jeff's rant
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2012, 03:31:11 PM »
It is little known, but the constellations of the zodiac, and other constellations associated with them, tell the same story as the Bible, just in primitive, symbolic form.  It's all in the book The Glory of the Stars by Raymond Capt.  A lot of people dismiss this as occult knowledge, horoscopes, or astrology, but I say that astrology is a degeneration of what was once a genuine path to knowledge.

I would compare the story told by the constellations with the very ancient, pictographic meanings of the Hebrew alphabet, in which "YHWH" means "Behold the Hand, Behold the Nail" or Jesus.
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Socrates taught Plato.  Plato taught Aristotle.  Aristotle tutored the son of Philip of Macedon.  This boy grew up to become Alexander the Great, largely by slaughtering a lot of people.  That's philosophy.

Jesus spoke the Truth.  He blessed the poor.  He healed the sick.  He even raised the dead.  He died on a cross for us, lived again, and came back long enough to tell us to love one another.  That's religion.

Offline thinktank

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Re: Jeff's rant
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2012, 01:23:40 AM »
And seen was another sign in heaven, and lo! a great fiery-red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and on its heads seven diadems.  And its tail is dragging a third of the stars of heaven, and casts them into the earth.


this could be refering to both angels and or men. The woman is giving birth to the manchild, (The resurection) Created new beings made like unto Jesus, some like the glory of the moon, other planets, as God sees fit. But lo some knocked, open to us Lord, but he said I never knew you. Someone entered heaven without a wedding garment, 'hey how did you get in here', bind him hand and foot and cast him where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.

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Offline reFORMer

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Re: Jeff's rant
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2012, 07:54:06 AM »
It was the wedding celebration he missed.  Instead of "so it was for ever more," I think I can see the Master going out afterward to see if his discipline was working.  Maybe He loosens the feet to see where the one in outer darkness will go.  There remains the time the married couple will spend together.
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Offline Deena

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Re: Jeff's rant
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2012, 12:12:05 PM »
I was just reading Matt 11:27 in which Jesus says no one will know the Father except those that Jesus "may wish to reaveal Him".  God is in control of who knows and does not. How can there be eternal punishment for something a person has no control of? We were bound to vanity, futility by God. How can a just God hold me accountable when He Himself has done it? No, I believe for some reason (God only knows why) we must walk this path of death, but that is not the end of the story...
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Offline micah7:9

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Re: Jeff's rant
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2012, 12:43:07 PM »
Quote from: Deena on November 17, 2012, 12:12:05 PM
I was just reading Matt 11:27 in which Jesus says no one will know the Father except those that Jesus "may wish to reaveal Him".  God is in control of who knows and does not. How can there be eternal punishment for something a person has no control of? We were bound to vanity, futility by God. How can a just God hold me accountable when He Himself has done it? No, I believe for some reason (God only knows why) we must walk this path of death, but that is not the end of the story...

I like it :thumbsup:
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Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Molly

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Re: Jeff's rant
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2012, 01:14:17 PM »
Quote from: Deena on November 17, 2012, 12:12:05 PM
I was just reading Matt 11:27 in which Jesus says no one will know the Father except those that Jesus "may wish to reaveal Him".  God is in control of who knows and does not. How can there be eternal punishment for something a person has no control of? We were bound to vanity, futility by God. How can a just God hold me accountable when He Himself has done it? No, I believe for some reason (God only knows why) we must walk this path of death, but that is not the end of the story...

It's true.  Yet, he gets angry at them.  He does.  We see this in both the Old and New Testaments.  So they do have some responsibility in the matter.

He calls them lovers of the lie, so if they love lies, he will send them a strong delusion.

There is a certain stubborness addressed here.  He calls them 'stiff-necked.'  If your neck is stiff, you can't turn the head, you cannot repent.

I've seen it in otherwise intelligent people, that stubborness that prevents them from giving the truth any purchase at all, lest they themselves be dimished.
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Offline ded2daworld

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Re: Jeff's rant
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2012, 04:05:43 PM »
He also says we have hearts of stone and that he will make it anew into a heart of flesh.
P.S. This has nothing to do with the Rolling Stones song "Heart of Stone" although that maybe where they got the expression.
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"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"
No matter what others may say or write, only the word of God is the word of God.

Offline Deena

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Re: Jeff's rant
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2012, 04:56:02 PM »
Could it be that God gets angry at evil's occurence (sinfulness) to act as a foil, a contrast to show what God does like and praise, i.e. mercy, love etc.? Evil is God's tool to reveal Himself by dramatically contrasting it? Could He simply be showing us what He is not? We are but sheep and children--It is hard for me to believe He is mad at us personally. I am His creation. Whatever I am it must be for His purposes, so why get mad at me? It does't make sense.
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Offline ded2daworld

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Re: Jeff's rant
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2012, 05:19:46 PM »
Life is learning
How will we understand right unless we know wrong?
How will we know "good times" unless we have bad times?
How could we understand good without seeing evil?
It was Adam and Eves sin(very first human wrong) that let them know (understand)right from wrong.
Rich and poor
haves and have nots
How would we have understood knowing the Lord if we had not 
at one time not known the Lord?
and it's not Love and hate. They are both deep passions.
"I loved Jacob but Esau I hated" from a God of love?
Yes because the contrast of love isn't hate but apathy.
The world tells us that if there is a God, he doesn't care
(eg God let their dearly loved mother or Father die)
But God tells us through his word that he loves us and cares
for us and it is his power that holds every particle of the universe
together for our benefit.
 
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"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"
No matter what others may say or write, only the word of God is the word of God.

Offline CHB

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Re: Jeff's rant
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2012, 05:36:39 PM »
Quote from: Deena on November 17, 2012, 04:56:02 PM
Could it be that God gets angry at evil's occurence (sinfulness) to act as a foil, a contrast to show what God does like and praise, i.e. mercy, love etc.? Evil is God's tool to reveal Himself by dramatically contrasting it? Could He simply be showing us what He is not? We are but sheep and children--It is hard for me to believe He is mad at us personally. I am His creation. Whatever I am it must be for His purposes, so why get mad at me? It does't make sense.

I agree with you. It sounds like a contridiction to say, God loves us, blinds us, hardens our hearts, we can't come to him unless he drags us, and then say God is going to punish us for any wrong we do.  :dontknow:  :eek:

I think God is going to correct us so that we know what is truth but how does he do this? I think by teaching, correcting experience. I think the whole world will learn the truth just like we have...not that we know it all. That is why we will be salted with fire also. Only thing is, we won't be "hurt by it"/second death. Why would God punish us for something he caused... and I firmly believe he is the cause of everything.

Just my :2c: CHB
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Offline Molly

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Re: Jeff's rant
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2012, 07:28:10 PM »
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, ...

 how often would I have gathered thy children together,

even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, <-Longing, Sadness, Love



and ye would not! <--Despair, Anger, Frustration



38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate <--Judgment

39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.<---Future redemption

--Mat 23



Am I the only one who can feel empathy with him?  The range of emotions is so like our own.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2012, 07:34:20 PM by Molly »
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Offline ded2daworld

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Re: Jeff's rant
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2012, 07:42:24 PM »
Yeah, It's like we were created in His image or something.
Or that was the human part of God
or a combination of the two

Reminds me of the shortest and most profound verse in the Bible:

"Jesus wept."
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"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"
No matter what others may say or write, only the word of God is the word of God.

Offline dajomaco

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Re: Jeff's rant
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2012, 08:08:40 PM »
By faith I am able to stand before God.

I have noticed the less I evaluate How God sees me.
The clearer my conscience is when I try to stand in front of him.

  A)I was sure, very sure, that years ago the way to pray or come into the presences
of God was that I should examine my self. When I did this and I had been on a run of
good and Godly things going on in my live I felt bold in the thrown room.

  B)When I examined my self and had recently been involved in a besetting sin
I still prayed to God but in a much more fearful and humble way.

The Spirit revealed to me that when I came before God .A)  I was stinking up the thrown room with self righteousness .

The Spirit revealed to me that when I came before God. B)  I was stinking up the thrown room with self pity.

Then how can I pray at all and why.
Then I was completely set free to pray and stand before God at will.
I talk to God through the spirit any time any where.

When do I talk to God? When ever I want to.
Why do I talk to God? Because I want to.
Jesus did for me that which I could not do for myself .
He justified me before God.( no surprise to God it was his plan all along).

I am able to stand in front of God because I believe that Jesus said I could
and I should .
The more faith I rely on the less me I see.
You can only be made Holy by Faith .
You can believe that you are Holy, because God has declared
to the universe and any one or thing that might be interested .
That Jesus Is Holy.
The comforter the Holy Spirit sent to me
specifically  to tell me that God like wise when he declared Jesus Holy
has declared me Holy.
Now I have only my Faith in what the spirit of God has told me.

I can no longer rely on myself to find right and wrong
good or bad, I look solely for opportunities.   
To Love to let my faith grow as the Spirit leads.
I have very little opportunity and less inclination to look for sin
in my life, let alone some one else's sin.
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Offline ded2daworld

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Re: Jeff's rant
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2012, 08:28:01 PM »
That's great Daj. Growing in the spirit. :thumbsup: :Pray:
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"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"
No matter what others may say or write, only the word of God is the word of God.
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