Author Topic: Health warning  (Read 8560 times)

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Offline shawn

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Re: Health warning
« Reply #50 on: July 30, 2010, 06:20:30 PM »
There is corruption in every industry.  That doesn't mean you throw the baby out with the bath water.  Let me give some information to some of the holistic naturalistic members of this board on a topic.  Almost all drugs originate from a "natural" source.  The plant foxglove gives us digoxin for instance.  It's in the pharm company's best interest to study and seek out these natural treatments then refine them for profit.  Saw palmetto?  Yep...they already took that one, regulated it, dosed it and concentrated it and turned it into meds for BPH.  Do I believe there is a natural cure out there that the pharm companies don't want you to find?  No.  Because if you find it...they will find a way to make money off of it.

Am I against "natural" drugs and herbs for treatment?  You bet I am.  Why?  For many reasons such as they are not dosed.  You often have no idea how much you are getting.  Also many people do not check the interactions these treatments have against the meds they are taking.  I personally like the idea of the FDA looking over our medications.  While you will always see a lawyer on TV trying to get the public to sue a pharm company for a terrible side effect of the drug these side effects only occur in a very small portion of the people taking them.  That's the job of the FDA to check and study these things.

But, I'm not a conspiracy theorist either.  I don't believe it to be evil to use medications to heal people like some have suggested.  If I did, I wouldn't do what I do.

 :cloud9: Let me preface my remarks by saying that I have NO PROBLEM with anyone taking an herb, IF the LORD tells you to do it. And He has told me before to take a specific thing. That said....

The "funny" thing is, I am not a "holistic" believer. I have been equally vocal over the years about people using herbs as their ONLY healer, and even more so after He gave me a dream about it. I had a friend and she and her mother had everything known to man in that way and swore by them.

One night, I had a dream, I was sitting at my friend's table with another friend, and she presented our "meal" which consisted of a glass of water with some herbs floating in it, with an air of pride of accomplishment for doing it.

The LORD spoke thru me to her in the dream and said, "How is it you have faith in the thing created, but no faith in the Spirit that created the thing?"

Equally telling, there is a woman who has been doing this stuff for years, what I am about to share, and also she claims she can look in your eyes and see what herbs you need. So: a co-worker convinced my boss to go with her to see this woman. The woman has an herb shop, and she does this "thing" where she has you hold a stick of gum in your hand, and extend your arm out straight from your body.

Then she proves to you how, since the gum's not a natural creation she can easily pull your arm down with you straining for her not to, thereby "proving" that man-made things weaken the body. And then she would have you hold one of her herbs and she couldn't pull your arm down. And it's always worked......

UNTIL the day my boss asked me to go with them. I told them that I would go only to prove to them that it was a form of witchcraft this woman was using. When we arrived, before getting out of the car, I asked the Lord, for His glory, to open their eyes and I prayed and broke the power of witchcraft and told it, it would have no power over me, right in front of them.

I was ridiculed by the co-worker, who decided I was "religious", LOL. However, when the herb lady tried the same parlor trick on me, she pulled and pulled, nearly got a hernia trying to pull my arm down, and it didn't work. She was furious, and clearly flustered. But not half as furious as my co-worker who had already blown $80 on her cures.

As for healing, I believe the Lord uses ALL things including doctors, for His purposes, but specifically we are to seek Him as our healer. I was healed of terminal cancer within one week of diagnosis (I was hemmoraghing), healed of 4 ruptured discs with accompanying partial paralysis, a heart attack, a crushed elbow joint.

Also, a massive concussion from a car wreck that went untreated and undetected for 8 months (they couldn't read the films in the ER, I guess; the neurologist 8 months later, was stunned), and the short term memory loss that accompanied it. I couldn't drive for 3 months because, while I could read the road signs, I couldn't retain anything I read, and so got lost. I couldn't remember where I was, from one minute to the next.

And lately, lung damage from pneumonia that didn't respond to antibiotics, which was the reason for being fed the prednisone in the first place. All of these were documented with tests, "before and after". Literally, I wouldn't be here half a dozen times over, if it were not for the faith He has given me to believe He is a healer today, as well.

So I will rephrase what I said in the earlier post, by adding that anyone taking prednisone should RESEARCH it and it's side effects, which are many, and the natural alternatives, THEN TALK TO THEIR DOCTOR about the potential for getting off the stuff. My :2c: Blessings....

Well said.  And the Lord has done a miracle of healing in your life.  I can say that the Lord has humbled me many times in this field.  Working in the ER I have lost people I thought should make it...and people who I felt had no chance pulled through.  I am convinced he is in control of all.

I also want to apologize.  I have had these conversations with individuals before.  When I have a debate about anything I ask myself why am I debating the subject.  I try to always look at my motivations.  I wanted to think I was trying to help the "public" with my post.  But, unfortunately I still have ugliness in me and I think pride and offense played a more prominent role in my motivation than anything else.  For that I apologize and ask for forgiveness from both you and God.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2010, 06:27:23 PM by shawn »

Offline thinktank

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Re: Health warning
« Reply #51 on: July 30, 2010, 07:17:30 PM »
Equally telling, there is a woman who has been doing this stuff for years, what I am about to share, and also she claims she can look in your eyes and see what herbs you need. So: a co-worker convinced my boss to go with her to see this woman. The woman has an herb shop, and she does this "thing" where she has you hold a stick of gum in your hand, and extend your arm out straight from your body.

Then she proves to you how, since the gum's not a natural creation she can easily pull your arm down with you straining for her not to, thereby "proving" that man-made things weaken the body. And then she would have you hold one of her herbs and she couldn't pull your arm down. And it's always worked......


UNTIL the day my boss asked me to go with them. I told them that I would go only to prove to them that it was a form of witchcraft this woman was using. When we arrived, before getting out of the car, I asked the Lord, for His glory, to open their eyes and I prayed and broke the power of witchcraft and told it, it would have no power over me, right in front of them.

I was ridiculed by the co-worker, who decided I was "religious", LOL. However, when the herb lady tried the same parlor trick on me, she pulled and pulled, nearly got a hernia trying to pull my arm down, and it didn't work. She was furious, and clearly flustered. But not half as furious as my co-worker who had already blown $80 on her cures


Cardinal


Cool story, lol the co-worker mocked but ended up shocked. This reminds me of the bibilical stories.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2010, 08:58:32 PM by thinktank »

Offline thinktank

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Re: Health warning
« Reply #52 on: July 30, 2010, 08:52:30 PM »
Well said.  And the Lord has done a miracle of healing in your life.  I can say that the Lord has humbled me many times in this field.  Working in the ER I have lost people I thought should make it...and people who I felt had no chance pulled through.  I am convinced he is in control of all.

I also want to apologize.  I have had these conversations with individuals before.  When I have a debate about anything I ask myself why am I debating the subject.  I try to always look at my motivations.  I wanted to think I was trying to help the "public" with my post.  But, unfortunately I still have ugliness in me and I think pride and offense played a more prominent role in my motivation than anything else.  For that I apologize and ask for forgiveness from both you and God.



72 hour working week, a spirit of grace and humbleness

You sure your a doctor?

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Health warning
« Reply #53 on: July 30, 2010, 09:16:01 PM »
Well said.  And the Lord has done a miracle of healing in your life.  I can say that the Lord has humbled me many times in this field.  Working in the ER I have lost people I thought should make it...and people who I felt had no chance pulled through.  I am convinced he is in control of all.

I also want to apologize.  I have had these conversations with individuals before.  When I have a debate about anything I ask myself why am I debating the subject.  I try to always look at my motivations.  I wanted to think I was trying to help the "public" with my post.  But, unfortunately I still have ugliness in me and I think pride and offense played a more prominent role in my motivation than anything else.  For that I apologize and ask for forgiveness from both you and God.

 :cloud9: Yes He is in control......not a problem bro.....I understand why what I said would be an affront. For my part, I felt I was helping the public also, by trying to prevent them from going through the hell I did from prednisone. So I think you brought needed balance, as I was pretty fired up myself over it all when I wrote that, and really wasn't thinking about the other issues involved. So thank you for that, God (and you) forgive me for not thinking it through more.  :thumbsup:

I also wanted to comment on what you said about people thinking God healed them and He didn't. The Lord showed me the difference, and it's something that needs to be said. Some churches teach healing is for today, and it is, but they think that all you need do is "stand on the Word" and proclaim yourself healed and act accordingly and God will move. He can do whatever He wants, and while there MAY be times He has reacted to that overlooking their lack of wisdom, that is not the Word He wants us to stand on.

The speaking gifts are necessary for the body, for with the baptism in the Spirit, with the speaking, comes spiritual hearing. Man shall not live (or have His life) by bread (letter) alone, but by every word (God-breathed) from the mouth of God.

He speaks a word to us personally about our healing, and THAT is the WORD/breath we are to stand on, in faith. God is a Spirit and what comes out of His mouth is Spirit. The Word that is letter, is to build our faith up to be able to receive more.

All the healings I experienced, save the first one, the ruptured discs/back injury, came this way. I think the only reason the first one didn't, is because He had mercy on me as I was newly saved, and I didn't understand the principle yet. Blessings....

"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline shawn

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Re: Health warning
« Reply #54 on: July 30, 2010, 09:29:23 PM »
Well said.  And the Lord has done a miracle of healing in your life.  I can say that the Lord has humbled me many times in this field.  Working in the ER I have lost people I thought should make it...and people who I felt had no chance pulled through.  I am convinced he is in control of all.

I also want to apologize.  I have had these conversations with individuals before.  When I have a debate about anything I ask myself why am I debating the subject.  I try to always look at my motivations.  I wanted to think I was trying to help the "public" with my post.  But, unfortunately I still have ugliness in me and I think pride and offense played a more prominent role in my motivation than anything else.  For that I apologize and ask for forgiveness from both you and God.



72 hour working week, a spirit of grace and humbleness

You sure your a doctor?

lol...yes and I'm blessed to be able to care for the sick.  I'm not sure about a spirit of grace a humility but God is certainly working on me.  I still have my moments.  :bigGrin:

pollypinks

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Re: Health warning
« Reply #55 on: January 23, 2011, 12:45:49 AM »
You cannot throw the baby out with the bathwater concerning a drug.  It has proved hazardous for you, and many others.  It has made others freer in their movements and the way they live.  I would use caution when telling others what medications to take or not to.  I have 3 autoimmune disorders.  On very rare occasions, I've been treated with prednisone, and done just fine.  Please, all of you, ask your own questions of your doctors, do your own research concerning your illnesses.

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Health warning
« Reply #56 on: January 23, 2011, 06:33:30 AM »
Very small doses of natural hormones, in this case HYDROCORTIZONE, can be effective without the dangerous side-effects of prednisone.  It seems not all doctors keep abreast of the latest information.  Like I know something that stops shingles.  It is injectible hydrogen peroxide.  Maybe 3 shots will do it.  I learned about it from some Jamaican friends.  A nurse friend went to someone who would administer it.  She was surprised it worked.  She had to pay $75 a shot.  Insurance won't pay for it.  It is not on U. S. doctors' formulary.  Something like less than 5 % of those who get shingles become afflicted with permanent severe and disabling pain.  Do doctors know about it?  Should these people and institutions be held liable (or sued) for rejecting a known cure?  That results in such suffering?  Just remember...it is an antiviral that cures smallpox.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2011, 08:10:58 AM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline shawn

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Re: Health warning
« Reply #57 on: January 23, 2011, 07:44:19 AM »
Very small doses of natural hormones, in this case HYDROCORTIZONE, can be effective without the dangerous side-effects of prednisone.  It seems not all doctors have keep abreast of the latest information.  Like I know something that stops shingles.  It is injectible hydrogen peroxide.  Maybe 3 shots will do it.  I learned about it from some Jamaican friends.  A nurse friend went to someone who would administer it.  She was surprised it worked.  She had to pay $75 a shot.  Insurance won't pay for it.  It is not on U. S. doctors' formulary.  Something like less than 5 % of those who get shingles become afflicted with permanent severe and disabling pain.  Do doctors know about it?  Should these people and institutions be held liable (or sued) for rejecting a known cure?  That results in such suffering?  Just remember...it is an antiviral that cures smallpox.

There are reasons physicians and nonphysicians are held liable for practicing medicine outside the standards of care.  Many have "theories" and have developed "cures" and promote these with pseudoscience, and poor research.  This coupled with some stories of "I know someone who got better" shows a population bias which can be as dangerous as the poor studies.  There are always conspiracy theories about the FDA, and there will always be a market for questionable medicinal alternatives.

I think each person should know the risks and rewards of such treatments and make educated adult decisions for themselves.  I have an article about hydrogen peroxide, the guy who promoted it's use in questionable medical practices, and some conclusions through medical research about these treatments. 

http://www.sram.org/1101/charlesfarr.html

Here is the summary of the article

In summary, the evidence that IV H2O2 is a safe and effective therapy—for any disease—is lacking. There is no growing body of support from basic science, animal studies, or human studies. Specifically, there would need to be systematic animal studies showing real promise, followed by Phase I, II and III human trials to establish safety and efficacy of IV H2O2 for at least one indication. Instead there have been a few conflicting preliminary reports, without independent confirmation of the very few that appeared favorable.

Farr's opinions cannot be considered authoritative. His panacea claims for IV H2O2 are implausible and typical of medical quackery. He never published his purported findings in a peer-reviewed journal. He used his endorsement of this and other dubious treatments in an entrepreneurial fashion. His own state medical board disciplined him for substandard practice, and the FDA disciplined him for presiding over a bogus IRB.

Prudence dictates that informed, scientifically trained practitioners view IV H2O2 skeptically. Extracellular H2O2 in blood is rapidly broken down to oxygen and water by the enzyme catalase, which results in the formation of dangerous bubbles. Any intact H2O2 that comes into contact with a cell is not likely to enter the cell in an orderly fashion, but rather to damage the cell membrane because the molecule vigorously reacts with lipids. Thus it is unlikely that H2O2 given intravenously would have any significant intracellular role, which is where it would need to be in order to fulfill Farr's claims. Rather, it would result in the formation of oxygen bubbles in the bloodstream and in the destruction of cells, exactly as have been reported. 3–7

Farr claimed that his regimen was safe because the H2O2 was sufficiently diluted. But even with a regimen that reportedly "had followed [the] 'well-established' protocols" of Farr's organization, the IOMA, a woman died in 2004 shortly after a single infusion; the coroner subsequently reported that her death had been due to hemolytic crisis and gas emboli.7 Thus Farr's claim of safety cannot be accepted as reliable.

In conclusion, the information that "oxidative medicine" practitioners rely upon as the basis for their prescribing intravenous hydrogen peroxide is wholly inadequate to justify such treatment.


Offline reFORMer

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Re: Health warning
« Reply #58 on: January 23, 2011, 08:19:46 AM »
I think it was administered IM for shingles...
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline shawn

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Re: Health warning
« Reply #59 on: January 23, 2011, 11:13:41 AM »
I think it was administered IM for shingles...

Take my advice for what it's worth but I have seen some really bad information about hydrogen peroxide on the net.  This site here says it's as safe as water to humans.

http://encognitive.com/node/2548

This is some .gov info on hydrogen peroxide.

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts174.pdf

Most of it's toxicity revolve around ingestion.  But, there are a couple concerns I would have about it's properties...one is can be caustic to tissues.  Two is it's affinity for forming airbubbles which can have all sorts of catastrophic effects on a living organism.

I would be leary of IV, SQ, or IM ingestions of any material without proper studies to confirm it's efficacy and safety.  Is there a reason someone would prefer H2O2 over typical antiviral treatments?

Offline thinktank

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Re: Health warning
« Reply #60 on: January 23, 2011, 08:45:08 PM »
This is slightly off topic, but it is on my mind, what do you think of flu injections?

Offline shawn

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Re: Health warning
« Reply #61 on: January 23, 2011, 09:01:35 PM »
This is slightly off topic, but it is on my mind, what do you think of flu injections?

My family and I get them every year.  As with everything, you must weigh risk vs reward.  There is always a small risk of an adverse reaction to the injection.  But, I believe there is greater risk for sickness than there is for an adverse reaction.  While they must guess about which viruses will show up in any given year they tend to be fairly good at predicting the problem viruses.

And of note, flu tends to be most dangerous to children and the elderly.  But, with the emergence of H1N1 all bets are off.  We have had several deaths in our area from H1N1 and I believe all of them were between the ages of 20-40.

Offline lomarah

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Re: Health warning
« Reply #62 on: March 04, 2013, 10:45:22 PM »
The doctors wanted to give Card prednisone again. She adamantly refused.

So they snuck it into her.

It's killing her AGAIN.

I. am. WILD.

They are dosing her down off of it now.

Keep praying please.
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline shawn

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Re: Health warning
« Reply #63 on: March 04, 2013, 10:56:50 PM »
The doctors wanted to give Card prednisone again. She adamantly refused.

So they snuck it into her.

It's killing her AGAIN.

I. am. WILD.

They are dosing her down off of it now.

Keep praying please.

If a patient of sound mind refuses a medication it is legally battery to give it to them anyway.  A physician can lose his license for such an act.  He can actually go to prison for it as well.

Offline lomarah

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Re: Health warning
« Reply #64 on: March 04, 2013, 11:33:16 PM »
Well that's what I thought Shawn. I am just so wild right now... it's probably a good thing I don't live near there.
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline Colleen

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Re: Health warning
« Reply #65 on: March 05, 2013, 03:27:26 AM »
I'm so glad this popped up today. I go to a chiropractor who uses muscle testing to find out which vertebrae are out. When the muscle tests weak he puts vertebra back on and I get nearly immediates relief from pain. Are you saying he is practicing witchcraft?

Offline Lazarus Short

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Re: Health warning
« Reply #66 on: March 05, 2013, 06:44:38 AM »
Chiropractic, like homeopathy, is backed up by vast amounts of research, but MD's and their handmaidens the DO's, will never admit it.
Socrates taught Plato.  Plato taught Aristotle.  Aristotle tutored the son of Philip of Macedon.  This boy grew up to become Alexander the Great, largely by slaughtering a lot of people.  That's philosophy.

Jesus spoke the Truth.  He blessed the poor.  He healed the sick.  He even raised the dead.  He died on a cross for us, lived again, and came back long enough to tell us to love one another.  That's religion.

Offline lomarah

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Re: Health warning
« Reply #67 on: March 05, 2013, 07:56:25 AM »
Colleen redhotmagma is a chiropractor and I would trust him with my life. Maybe you could ask him about some stuff (unless he's already pm'ed you :) ). He's a chiropractor that walks with the Lord so I'm sure he'd know all the ins and outs and legit practices and any that would be "off". 
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline Colleen

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Re: Health warning
« Reply #68 on: March 05, 2013, 02:42:43 PM »
Thanks lomorah. I knew someone had mentioned being a chiropractor on here and was hoping I would come up.

Offline shawn

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Re: Health warning
« Reply #69 on: March 11, 2013, 06:36:52 AM »
Chiropractic, like homeopathy, is backed up by vast amounts of research, but MD's and their handmaidens the DO's, will never admit it.

As a "handmaiden", I wonder why you believe that.  Osteopaths also manipulate, and believe in manipulation as supported by studies which show manipulation produces the same results with less meds.

Offline Lazarus Short

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Re: Health warning
« Reply #70 on: March 11, 2013, 01:01:36 PM »
Chiropractic, like homeopathy, is backed up by vast amounts of research, but MD's and their handmaidens the DO's, will never admit it.

As a "handmaiden", I wonder why you believe that.  Osteopaths also manipulate, and believe in manipulation as supported by studies which show manipulation produces the same results with less meds.

Well, I didn't mean to offend you, but I worked in an Osteopathic teaching hospital for ten years, and got a feel for the "old school" vs the "new school" if you will, which IMO, had moved closer to the ways of Allopathy.  I may be wrong in that opinion.  I even had Osteopathic-style manipulation shown to me by a DO student, and if I need an adjustment, I'll go to a Chiropractor, and a neck-only one if I can find one. 
Socrates taught Plato.  Plato taught Aristotle.  Aristotle tutored the son of Philip of Macedon.  This boy grew up to become Alexander the Great, largely by slaughtering a lot of people.  That's philosophy.

Jesus spoke the Truth.  He blessed the poor.  He healed the sick.  He even raised the dead.  He died on a cross for us, lived again, and came back long enough to tell us to love one another.  That's religion.

Offline redhotmagma

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Re: Health warning
« Reply #71 on: March 11, 2013, 02:12:14 PM »
Until the 90's D.O.'s rarely did any manipulation, and were for all intents and purposes M.D.'s.  But with all the research coming in on manipulations benefits many D.O. schools started focusing on it more.  Michigan State was the only school in the country (from what I understand) that taught any significant manipulation prior to that. 

I'm not sure when the "takeover" took place by the AMA, but it was in the first part of the 20th century, before that DO's and DC's were almost identical.  Many DO's still did manipulation into the 50's and 60's, and did allopathic medicine.  By the 60's the AMA renewed its full force attempt to wipe out all competition, and most DO's stopped doing it, or none of the new coming out of school learned it.

DC's won an antitrust lawsuit against the AMA in the 90's called Wilks vs. AMA.  Went to the Supreme Court. 

btw I have no ill will towards doctors, especially you Shawn  :HeartThrob:  The AMA, well thats another story 

Offline shawn

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Re: Health warning
« Reply #72 on: March 11, 2013, 05:39:06 PM »
Until the 90's D.O.'s rarely did any manipulation, and were for all intents and purposes M.D.'s.  But with all the research coming in on manipulations benefits many D.O. schools started focusing on it more.  Michigan State was the only school in the country (from what I understand) that taught any significant manipulation prior to that. 

I'm not sure when the "takeover" took place by the AMA, but it was in the first part of the 20th century, before that DO's and DC's were almost identical.  Many DO's still did manipulation into the 50's and 60's, and did allopathic medicine.  By the 60's the AMA renewed its full force attempt to wipe out all competition, and most DO's stopped doing it, or none of the new coming out of school learned it.

DC's won an antitrust lawsuit against the AMA in the 90's called Wilks vs. AMA.  Went to the Supreme Court. 

btw I have no ill will towards doctors, especially you Shawn  :HeartThrob:  The AMA, well thats another story

Osteopathy did hit a rough road, when it fell under persecution by the allopath community.  But, I went  to Pikeville, which was a new osteopathic school very invested in teaching manipulation.  Most  osteopaths do not use it.  With that said, many believe in its use.  And there are several from nearly every class that devote their practices to it.

And brother, no offense taken.  I am just curious where people get their opinions on such matters.

Offline shawn

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Re: Health warning
« Reply #73 on: March 11, 2013, 05:42:25 PM »
Chiropractic, like homeopathy, is backed up by vast amounts of research, but MD's and their handmaidens the DO's, will never admit it.

As a "handmaiden", I wonder why you believe that.  Osteopaths also manipulate, and believe in manipulation as supported by studies which show manipulation produces the same results with less meds.

Well, I didn't mean to offend you, but I worked in an Osteopathic teaching hospital for ten years, and got a feel for the "old school" vs the "new school" if you will, which IMO, had moved closer to the ways of Allopathy.  I may be wrong in that opinion.  I even had Osteopathic-style manipulation shown to me by a DO student, and if I need an adjustment, I'll go to a Chiropractor, and a neck-only one if I can find one.

Again, no offense.  I have heard it all when it comes to physicians.  Some of it fairly warranted.

Offline redhotmagma

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Re: Health warning
« Reply #74 on: March 11, 2013, 06:43:59 PM »
Shawn I didn't know you were an osteopath,  I like you even more now  :laughing7:

Yes more and more are doing it solely, which is great.  I'd like to learn some of the osteopathic techniques, some are quite different than ours.