Author Topic: What do you make of this?  (Read 1279 times)

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darsemnos

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What do you make of this?
« on: August 05, 2007, 10:53:09 PM »
I don't know what to make of this video, the first part particularly. I guess I'm troubles because I can't offer any real rebuttal.

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/130.html

Livelystone

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Re: What do you make of this?
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2007, 01:42:59 AM »
Hello darsemnos

I would have rather we met over a different topic but so be it

These things are good in the fact that they will help to cleanse the church of those who do not really believe in Jesus but are for whatever reason hanging in the shadows instead of becoming one with the light and the truth.

First off no one who has done much research past childhood sunday school believes that christmas has anything remotely close to to do with the timing of Jesus birth at the end of September........ the fact that it does for all those other "gods" is not a problem for the truth but only for those lesser gods who are not gods but are attached to the significance of that day as seen by false worshippers.

Just as the journey from Mt Hermon to the dead sea and the brain of man to his bowel as well as the stars in the heavens are all in the likeness of creation and man's worship of God, is all just more proof of Paul's words that all around us we see the work of His hands and that man is left without an excuse.

However for myself I have been given a more sure word of prophecy and have gone to the other side and returned. During that time of being out of the body I have seen some of what what the Apostle John saw in the future as well as in a time of prayer I have been taken back in time and shown our Lord and Savior on the Cross. Rather than use either of these events to further my own standing before anyone let alone before God I have always felt since those times that because I have seen and believed through seeing I will never be able to share in the blessings of those who have believed but not seen........ but I am still grateful for being given living proof when I was living a wicked life and one of Satan's success stories to now having gone from underworld kingpin to servant of the most high

We are told to stay away from those who worship stars and a host of other things but I have sat with those who worship Satan and seen them loose control of their emotions and bodily functions in the presence of God's angels...... There is no other power other than the  presence of the Living God given unto us through the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ. Furthermore I would rather not see things like this video made available for view at this site by those who have not yet had their senses exercised between good and evil. I feel strongly enough about that to consider this a fair warning for those who are responsible for what is viewed here.

Taking and misleading newly born again Christians is a serious sin................. if one believes in the Words of Jesus

Mt. 18: 6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. 7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

Blessings

Doug

 

darsemnos

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Re: What do you make of this?
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2007, 02:23:22 AM »
I'm not trying to make other people question their faith. I just have nagging doubts about my own based on things like this that make reasonable points that I can't refute. Shall I abandon intellectual debate because of where it might lead? I don't know.

Offline Pierac

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Re: What do you make of this?
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2007, 03:52:17 AM »
LivelyStone is correct,

Christmas and Easter are first and foremost pagan holidays and have nothing to do with Christianity. You can thank the Catholic church for making them ours. So their system falls apart rather quickly at this point. The problem is they have truth mixed in with nontruths. For example I have always been confused about building 7 at the WTC complex. I believe the Goverment is covering up many things however, I do not believe we did this to ourselves. They do a good job of make something look and sound like the truth by using truth mixed with nontruths. Just ask Michael Moore. 

Paul

Livelystone

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Re: What do you make of this?
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2007, 04:42:33 AM »
I'm not trying to make other people question their faith. I just have nagging doubts about my own based on things like this that make reasonable points that I can't refute. Shall I abandon intellectual debate because of where it might lead? I don't know.

I know where you are coming from and there were years when I too was in doubt of the truth but I was also thinking with a natural mind and had not yet seen His power and righteousness. But then there came a time when I had to know the truth and everything else took a backstage. In time He started to answer my prayers and even though what I could see was not clearly understood by me at the time, I knew power and truth when I was seeing it.

God is that way with with all His children and if you seek after Him with all your heart He will show Himself to you. Those who do not believe will never see the truth because of their unbelief but I do not believe you have been chosen for unbelief.

However you do need to separate yourself from what is not true and that video has been put together by ones who are listening to the voice of our enemy who is the father of lies. Meanwhile you have come to a good place and here you will witness the strength of the faith of many others even when we are different places on the path to Him.  I will take a shot from the hip and just suggest to you that in your prayers that if you ask Him to accept your obedience in compliance to His commands while He does His work in you, in time you will see Him in a way that no one will ever be able to take you out of His Hand.

Jn. 10: 24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. 25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Things are just getting started up here again but just give it and Him a little time......... You will be glad you did and the faith that is given unto you will convince others of Him.

Blessings

Doug

 

darsemnos

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Re: What do you make of this?
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2007, 05:04:10 AM »
I DO try to live according to the things Jesus said. The wisdom in doing so is inherently obvious. The commands Jesus gives for how to live, especially with respect to how we treat others strike a chord with me. They are obviously truth. Even if I went my whole life with doubt in my faith the wisdom of His commands would not be in doubt. So I live in accordance with them as much as possible. I guess I just don't like the uncertainty. I want to KNOW now, rather than wonder. I certainly won't claim that I'm not thinking with the natural mind. I do pray that I may KNOW the truth with certainty, rather than just wondering. I'm not very patient and when I see things like what I referenced I wonder, what if.

Offline dboutwell

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Re: What do you make of this?
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2007, 05:17:41 AM »
Darsemnos,

I have just watched part one and I wanted to comment on it before I watch any more. My comment...I still believe!

It just doesn't bother me that other cultures and civilizations have "borrowed" from the truth.  ;) If the Lamb of God was slain BEFORE the foundation of the world it all really happened before anybody used the story. And the part about the zodiac just blows my mind. The heavens do indeed declare the glory of God don't they?

Darsemnos, I don't know what kind of thought and doubts you have to deal with but I believe the one true God, by whatever name He is called, will "save" us and I believe that because He loves us.  One may say, "well, of course He says He loves us but what if the Bible isn't true? What if it's just another religious book for the people in our day and age similar to the other "sacred writings?"

All I can say is what God is doing for me and my knowledge of Him comes from the Bible.  He is changing me from the inside out. He is ridding me of my nasty, putrid, Pharisaical attitudes and showing me how to love people. He is creating real faith in me.

Is there a time that you can remember when God actually changed you for the better? Or, answered a prayer or overwhelmed you with His great love?

Should anyone find out that God is not real. what would be the outcome? We know by now that it is not burning in hell forever....(thank you Jesus for knowledge). Everything we are learning because we believe in God is doing us good! It's improving our lives!

I believe there's a spark of God in all of us even if we never heard the word "God" or "Jesus". It's OK with me if those folks wanted to use the truth of God to "flesh out" their stories and beliefs.

They got mighty dang close didn't they?

just my thoughts...

Debbie  :icon_cheers:
« Last Edit: August 06, 2007, 05:20:49 AM by dboutwell »
Blessings :)

Debbie

All Made Alive

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Re: What do you make of this?
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2007, 06:26:45 AM »
I'm not trying to make other people question their faith. I just have nagging doubts about my own based on things like this that make reasonable points that I can't refute. Shall I abandon intellectual debate because of where it might lead? I don't know.

Of course not, darsemnos, thanks for posting the video! It is always good to test your faith.

I would like to make a short comment about the pagan god's (from the video) which seem to resemble Christ/Christianity.

If such similarities were factual don't you think the historians and scholars would ALL discredit Christianity? The fact is, they do not; though, I must admit, many claim Jesus Christ was merely a "good teacher". It is true that the pagan god's mentioned in the video preceded Christ in history; however, their mentioned attributes/characteristics were most likely developed sometime in the first few centuries AFTER Christ. It is widely known that with the so called "explosion" of Christianity in the first few centuries, many cult groups begin to adapt and copy the themes and teachings of Christianity in order to attract the masses.

To summarize, the "borrowing" of teachings (i.e. Born of a Virgin, Star in the East, Resurrection) was actually done by the pagan religions, NOT Christianity. Think about it, darsemnos; If the writers of the new testament really did just copy from other ancient religions why did they suffer and die for the sake of the gospel? No person would die for a "Jesus" who they made up!

EDIT: Furthermore, what about all the old testament phrophecies of Christ dating back to before 4000BC?

As if the above facts alone are not enough to show the video (atleast the part about pagan gods) is a hoax, read on...


Quote
I sent an email to 20 of the world's leading Egyptologists, outlining the following claims put forth by Kuhn (and hence Harpur) [POSTER NOTE: Two man who seem partially responsible for the below claims]:

* That the name of Jesus was derived from the Egyptian "Iusa," which means "the coming divine Son who heals or saves".

* That the god Horus is "an Egyptian Christos, or Christ.... He and his mother, Isis, were the forerunners of the Christian Madonna and Child, and together they constituted a leading image in Egyptian religion for millennia prior to the Gospels."

* That Horus also "had a virgin birth, and that in one of his roles, he was 'a fisher of men with twelve followers.'"

* That "the letters KRST appear on Egyptian mummy coffins many centuries BCE, and . . . this word, when the vowels are filled in, is really Karast or Krist, signifying Christ."

* That the doctrine of the incarnation "is in fact the oldest, most universal mythos known to religion. It was current in the Osirian religion in Egypt at least four thousand years BCE."


Only one of the 10 experts who responded to my questions had ever heard of Kuhn, Higgins or Massey! Professor Kenneth A. Kitchen of the University of Liverpool pointed out that not one of these men is mentioned in M. L. Bierbrier's Who Was Who in Egyptology (1995), nor are any of their works listed in Ida B. Pratt's very extensive bibliography on Ancient Egypt (1925/1942). Since he died in 1834, Kitchen noted, "nothing by Higgins could be of any value whatsoever, because decipherment of the Egyptian hieroglyphs was still being finalized, very few texts were translated, and certainly not the vast mass of first-hand religious data."

Another distinguished Egyptologist wrote: "Egyptology has the unenviable distinction of being one of those disciplines that almost anyone can lay claim to, and the unfortunate distinction of being probably the one most beleaguered by false prophets." He goes on to refer to Kuhn's "fringe nonsense."

The responding scholars were unanimous in dismissing the suggested etymologies for Jesus and Christ. Professor Peter F. Dorman, of the University of Chicago, commented: "It is often tempting to suggest simplistic etymologies between Egyptian and Greek (or other languages), but similar sequences of consonants and/or vowels are insufficient to demonstrate any convincing connection."

Ron Leprohan, of the University of Toronto, pointed out that, while "sa" means "son" in ancient Egyptian and "iu" means 'to come," Kuhn/Harpur have the syntax all wrong. In any event, the name 'Iusa' simply does not exist in Egyptian. The name 'Jesus' is a Greek derivation of a Semitic name ("Jeshu'a") borne by many people in the first century.

While the image of the baby Horus with Isis has influenced the Christian iconography of Madonna and Child, this is where the similarity stops. [...] there is no evidence for the idea that Horus was virgin born. And the New Testament Mary was certainly not a goddess (like Isis).

There is no evidence for the idea that Horus was 'a fisher of men' -- or that his followers, the King's officials, were ever 12 in number. KRST is the word for "burial" ("coffin" is written "KRSW"), but there is no evidence whatsoever to link this with the Greek title "Christos" or the Hebrew "Mashiah".

[...]

Kuhn/Harper's redefinition of "incarnation," and their attempt to root this in Egyptian religion, is regarded as bogus by all the Egyptologists I consulted. According to one: "Only the pharaoh was believed to have a divine aspect, the divine power of kingship, incarnated in the human being currently serving as the king. No other Egyptians ever believed they possessed even 'a little bit of the divine'."



As you can see the claims made in the video are utter nonsense. It is a very well made video with very nonfactual information.

God bless!  ;D
« Last Edit: August 06, 2007, 05:31:47 PM by All Made Alive »

Jacob1207

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Re: What do you make of this?
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2007, 08:38:49 AM »
I'm not trying to make other people question their faith. I just have nagging doubts about my own based on things like this that make reasonable points that I can't refute. Shall I abandon intellectual debate because of where it might lead? I don't know.

What?  You're thinking about not thinking because you think that you might think thoughts that you don't want to think?  That's the worst thing that you could do.

If we protect our beliefs from scrutiny, we can't have and shouldn't put much confidence in them.  If you're afraid that something that you believe in can't withstand intellectual examination, maybe you ought not to be holding on to that belief.  Yes, if you start examining what you presently believe, you will end up changing some of them, deepening others, and learning about all of them.  But what's wrong with that?  Are you so confident that what you believe at this very minute is so certain that it doesn't need to be questioned?

-- Jacob

Offline Kratos

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Re: What do you make of this?
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2007, 10:35:21 AM »
This video about Christianity just brings evidence that this verse is indeed true:

Rom 1:19  Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:


God has revealed the truth about His plan for the salvation through Jesus Christ to everything that is made so they are without excuse. The fact that what has been revealed to them about the birth, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus has come forth as types in their mythology should be no surprise.

To me, it is no different than the Passover lamb foretelling Jesus to Israel while still in Egypt. Sometimes God reveals to those who came after what Jesus did for them in the past and other times to those who had come before, he revealed to them what Jesus was one day going to do for them in the future.

Isn't God wonderful to have told the story of Christ to so many different cultures in so many different generations? Then, in the age to come, the Holy Spirit can reveal to all of mankind that what they had believed in when they were alive and on the earth was just foretelling the Lord who came in due season. It will be so easy for them to bow and confess when the pieces of the puzzle come together for them in that glorious day.

John
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lovetruth

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Re: What do you make of this?
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2007, 11:16:54 AM »
often missionaries have come into horribly pagan cultures and found seeds of truth that God has planted beforehand to prepare people's hearts for His fuller revelation.

our job in life is to walk in the truth we have been given today, always seeking to grow in understanding.

grace and peace  ;)

Offline dboutwell

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Re: What do you make of this?
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2007, 06:52:05 AM »
I found an interesting article that deals with the gospel in the zodiac.

http://www.gods-kingdom.org/Letters/GospelInStars/default.htm

Debbie :)
Blessings :)

Debbie

Offline BenJasher

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Re: What do you make of this?
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2007, 07:27:18 AM »
I found an interesting article that deals with the gospel in the zodiac.

http://www.gods-kingdom.org/Letters/GospelInStars/default.htm

Debbie :)

There is a Hebrew word "mazzaroth" which is basically the "Gospel in the Stars." I have several books on the topic. J. Preston Eby published an extensive series of articles on the subject.

Jukes and Bullinger both wrote books on the subject. And I once saw an artist's depiction of the Temple with what we would recognize as the signs of the Zodiac on the floor of the Holy Place. But that was the Mazzaroth; The Witness of the Stars, The Gospel written in the Heavens, The Star Bible.

(But then, knowing what we know about how faithful the Israelites were to the Lord, it could have been to them a  zodiac.)

The Zodiac is just a cheap imitation of the Mazzaroth, sent to deceive the weak and unstable. As witness as to how real and how accurate the Mazzaroth is; the Magi knew that the Saviour had been born because they saw His star.

Good stuff!
.. but we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, that God foreordained before the ages to our glory, which none of the rulers of this age have known, for if they had known, they would not have crucified the Lord of Glory.