Author Topic: Has anyone read the book, "The Jerome Conspiracy"?  (Read 1683 times)

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Cat

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Re: Has anyone read the book, "The Jerome Conspiracy"?
« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2009, 10:13:49 PM »
Cat,

Some logical thinking goes a long way too.

Exodus 21:6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever/owlam.
=> slaves don't live forever

 Jeremiah 7:7 Then will I cause you to dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers, for ever/owlam and ever/owlam
=> multiple owlams/eternities?

There are many more similar verses; but I think the above two prove that owlam does not (always) mean eternal.



I absolutely agree.  I wonder why these verses are  translated that way when common sense dictates a different word?

Anyhow, I've come across this amazing website called 'Ancient Hebrew Research Centre'   http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/1_about.html

I must give credit to the author of the 'mercifultruth' website as he directed me to it a while ago and I'd only glanced at it fleetingly to say the least.  Here is a very interesting article about 'olam' from it:

http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/27_eternity.html

I just need to find something similar for 'aionios' now  :laughing7: 


Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Has anyone read the book, "The Jerome Conspiracy"?
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2009, 10:33:13 PM »
I just need to find something similar for 'aionios' now  :laughing7: 

Maybe have that Cat...  :laughing7:
It may look like I sidetracked the thread from Greek to Hebrew.
The Sepurgint/LXX is a Greek translation from the Hebrew OT.
So my thought is this:
a] Find forever/eternal/world in the English OT
b] Look up that verse in the LXX and see what Greek word is used.
c] Look up the Hebrew word.

Then you sorta double checked the meaning of the verse. Using Hebrew and Greek word definitions.
If you like you can write to the Jewish Times: http://www.mesora.org/
Every month they answer questions from readers. Always in a friendly way by a Rabbi.
I have all the magazines and I'm 90% sure I've read an article about owlam in on of the mags.
I search for you but haven't found it yet.
The definition of the Rabbi was something like: hidden time.
Like unknow duration. And that seems to line up perfectly with the few verses I quoted above.
So for me it's certain that aion and owlam mean a time of varying duration. I think it's very hard to deny that.
But that knowledge won't help you much. You can prove it can last from days to (moses din't speak) to teh age of teh mountains.
But surely some ET will say: You are completely right Cat, the duration varies, and in this verse about hell it means for ever....
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Has anyone read the book, "The Jerome Conspiracy"?
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2009, 10:55:46 PM »
There are many more similar verses; but I think the above two prove that owlam does not (always) mean eternal.

That's hard to say for sure:
a] Their knowledge of Hebrew was not perfect. (I always wonder why OT translators are never Jews...)
b] They biased. (Denonibation)
c] An attempt to make the Bibkle easier to understand.
d] Figure of speech.

Example of d.
WhiteWing: Cat how often do you read the Bible?
Cat: Every Saturday evening.

You are not correct. You won't be reading in a 100 years...
Did you lie? Or did you just use a the same words millions of other English speaking people use?
Most sane people will understand you are not claiming to read after you dead. The limitation is clear and accepted.
But in religion.... that limitation is removed in certain contexts.
That's why IMO translations should be a literal as possible.
The English OT translation is already missing half of the information so lets not wreck the remaining half with (well intended) alterations.
 :2c:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Cat

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Re: Has anyone read the book, "The Jerome Conspiracy"?
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2009, 11:06:44 PM »
But surely some ET will say: You are completely right Cat, the duration varies, and in this verse about hell it means for ever....

Or they may say the comparison of 'life' to 'punishment' doesn't imply different ideas of time.  If the 'life' Jesus promises stretches off into a distant point we can't comprehend with our finite minds, then the punishment (which I believe is not conscious punishment) also stretches into a incomprehensible time period.  

It's been suggested that 'aionios' doesn't mean 'age- during' but rather 'pertaining to an age' which surely is not in keeping with it's Hebrew counterpart 'olam'.  We have seen that 'olam' is referring to 'time' but time we aren't always aware of, or that we can measure.  (I hope that is right).  If we take Habbakuk 3:6 and those 'everlasting hills' and we treat 'owlam' like 'aionios' and say 'the hills pertaining to the age' that doesn't seem to make sense.  So is 'aionios' a word about 'time' and to our understanding 'varying lengths of time' or is it a word about belonging to a certain time period?   :dontknow:

(I've got some scriptures which were sent to me by a ET Christian which seem to refute UR.  I'll post a new thread to discuss them.  Look out for it.    :bigGrin:

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Has anyone read the book, "The Jerome Conspiracy"?
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2009, 11:33:32 PM »
Quote
It's been suggested that 'aionios' doesn't mean 'age- during' but rather 'pertaining to an age' which surely is not in keeping with it's Hebrew counterpart 'olam'.  We have seen that 'olam' is referring to 'time' but time we aren't always aware of, or that we can measure.

It's a bit how you look at it Cat.
If I say to you: Cat it will last a while.
Do you know how long it lasts? 10 minutes? 10 hours? A week?
I've shown verses owlam has very duration.
Similar verses can be found for aion(ios).
Same for the word Yom which is translated as day in the creation account. I can also mean very long times.

I mentioned that a Rabbi defines Owlam as 'mystery time'
The article you mentioned speaks about time being on the horizon.
We can check and prove the duration of all yoms, aions and owlams besides the ones of the afterlife.
We can prove most because most of them are history for us. We know when the slave died. We know when the everlasting kingdom of a king ended. But for the people living in that owlam is was unclear. On the horizon. A mystery.
And that is what binds yom, owlam and aion. The duration is unknow. Only Father/Son/HS know the end of an owlam. You can guess the remaining duration of the aion-of-Cat. But you can't give an exact date. Unlike when you speak for example of a well defined period like second.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Cat

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Re: Has anyone read the book, "The Jerome Conspiracy"?
« Reply #30 on: December 21, 2009, 12:39:13 AM »
I've just come across this amazing series and in episode 11, it starts talking about 'Nazarene and Nazarite', which we were discussing earlier in this thread.  It's really interesting and is here if anyone wants to check it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qae9J5rotbE&feature=related

 :bigGrin:

p.s
give it a minute or so as it's still talking about the previous episode's topic at the beginning.