Author Topic: Question about John 3:16 in Young's translation  (Read 710 times)

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Offline anti_nietzsche

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Question about John 3:16 in Young's translation
« on: October 15, 2012, 06:19:47 PM »
Hey there, for some time now I've been using Young's Literal Translation as opposed to the NIV or the NKJV and I'm really finding so much evidence for a better theology than I had known before. Today I came about this here, but I need some help to know what this is about.

Young's Literal Translation John 3:16

for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.

The focus is on "may". Does the original greek here mean that nobody MAY perish, as, it simply must not happen? Or does it simply mean that nobody should perish except if something foolish like rejection of Christ or too much sin or something like that happens?

Offline ded2daworld

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Re: Question about John 3:16 in Young's translation
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2012, 07:06:18 PM »
Answering in reverse.
"The blood of Christ cleans us from ALL sin" so there isn't a question of "too much sin" we all have sinned and in this life, we all will sin. Thank God it's not up to us to"save ourselves" by "being good." Nor has anyone ever been SO bad that the blood of Christ won't cover that sin.

The word "may" in this context takes the place of "so that they." This is one of the problems with a literal translation because the Hebrew and Greek cannot always be translated literally and still mean the same thing. For example, the Greek has 3 words with 3 seperate meanings for our one word "love."

Another example: "Repent and be baptised for the remission of your sins" is often used by some groups to insist that it is Baptism not the blood of Christ which takes away our sins. The key word is "for."
One is baptised because one has already had the remission of their sins by the blood of Christ.
When a murderer is executed for murder, it is not so that he will then go and murder, it is because he has already murdered.
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Question about John 3:16 in Young's translation
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2012, 07:50:12 PM »
Good question AN.

He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.

I think this is potentially a similar debate to "God desires all to be saved"
UR: God's desired will take place.
ET: God hope but doesn't get what He wants.

So let's say those who do not believe are not and go to hell (not my view just an example)
What about those who believe? They possibly are saved? Doesn't sound correct to me.

Let's look at the Greek.
"Should not perish" is one (1) Greek word. G622
"May be having" is one (1) Greek word. G2192

Below I will list every verse using those Greek words.
Then you can check for yourself what the verse means.
Verses are all from KJV because I can't search for Strong numbers in YLT
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Question about John 3:16 in Young's translation
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2012, 07:50:41 PM »
G622

(Matt 2:13) And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.

(Matt 5:29) And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

(Matt 5:30) And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

(Matt 8:25) And his disciples came to him, and awoke him, saying, Lord, save us: we perish.

(Matt 9:17) Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

(Matt 10:6) But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

(Matt 10:28) And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

(Matt 10:39) He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

(Matt 10:42) And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.

(Matt 12:14) Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.

(Matt 15:24) But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

(Matt 16:25) For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

(Matt 18:11) For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

(Matt 18:14) Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

(Matt 21:41) They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

(Matt 22:7) But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

(Matt 26:52) Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

(Matt 27:20) But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus.

(Mark 1:24) Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.

(Mark 2:22) And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.

(Mark 3:6) And the Pharisees went forth, and straightway took counsel with the Herodians against him, how they might destroy him.

(Mark 4:38) And he was in the hinder part of the ship, asleep on a pillow: and they awake him, and say unto him, Master, carest thou not that we perish?

(Mark 8:35) For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.

(Mark 9:22) And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us.

(Mark 9:41) For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

(Mark 11:18) And the scribes and chief priests heard it, and sought how they might destroy him: for they feared him, because all the people was astonished at his doctrine.

(Mark 12:9) What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others.

(Luke 4:34) Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God.

(Luke 5:37) And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.

(Luke 6:9) Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?

(Luke 8:24) And they came to him, and awoke him, saying, Master, master, we perish. Then he arose, and rebuked the wind and the raging of the water: and they ceased, and there was a calm.

(Luke 9:24) For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

(Luke 9:25) For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away?

(Luke 9:56) For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

(Luke 11:51) From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.

(Luke 13:3) I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

(Luke 13:5) I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

(Luke 13:33) Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

(Luke 15:4) What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

(Luke 15:6) And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

(Luke 15:8) Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it?

(Luke 15:9) And when she hath found it, she calleth her friends and her neighbours together, saying, Rejoice with me; for I have found the piece which I had lost.

(Luke 15:17) And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!

(Luke 15:24) For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

(Luke 15:32) It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

(Luke 17:27) They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

(Luke 17:29) But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

(Luke 17:33) Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

(Luke 19:10) For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

(Luke 19:47) And he taught daily in the temple. But the chief priests and the scribes and the chief of the people sought to destroy him,

(Luke 20:16) He shall come and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others. And when they heard it, they said, God forbid.

(Luke 21:18) But there shall not an hair of your head perish.

(John 3:15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

(John 3:16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

(John 6:12) When they were filled, he said unto his disciples, Gather up the fragments that remain, that nothing be lost.

(John 6:27) Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

(John 6:39) And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

(John 10:10) The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

(John 10:28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

(John 11:50) Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

(John 12:25) He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

(John 17:12) While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

(John 18:9) That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none.

(John 18:14) Now Caiaphas was he, which gave counsel to the Jews, that it was expedient that one man should die for the people.

(Acts 5:37) After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed.

(Rom 2:12) For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

(Rom 14:15) But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

(1Cor 1:18) For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

(1Cor 1:19) For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

(1Cor 8:11) And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?

(1Cor 10:9) Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

(1Cor 10:10) Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.

(1Cor 15:18) Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

(2Cor 2:15) For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

(2Cor 4:3) But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

(2Cor 4:9) Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;

(2Thess 2:10) And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

(Heb 1:11) They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;

(Jas 1:11) For the sun is no sooner risen with a burning heat, but it withereth the grass, and the flower thereof falleth, and the grace of the fashion of it perisheth: so also shall the rich man fade away in his ways.

(Jas 4:12) There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

(1Pet 1:7) That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

(2Pet 3:6) Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

(2Pet 3:9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

(2John 1:8) Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.

(Jude 1:5) I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

(Jude 1:11) Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Question about John 3:16 in Young's translation
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2012, 07:53:26 PM »
G2192

(Matt 1:18) Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

(Matt 1:23) Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

(Matt 3:4) And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.

(Matt 3:9) And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

(Matt 3:14) But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

(Matt 4:24) And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.

(Matt 5:23) Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;

(Matt 5:46) For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

(Matt 6:1) Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

(Matt 6:8) Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

(Matt 7:29) For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

(Matt 8:9) For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.

(Matt 8:16) When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:

(Matt 8:20) And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

(Matt 9:6) But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

(Matt 9:12) But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

(Matt 9:36) But when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd.

(Matt 11:15) He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

(Matt 11:18) For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.

(Matt 12:10) And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.

(Matt 12:11) And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?

(Matt 13:5) Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:

(Matt 13:6) And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

(Matt 13:9) Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

(Matt 13:12) For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

(Matt 13:21) Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

(Matt 13:27) So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

(Matt 13:43) Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

(Matt 13:44) Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

(Matt 13:46) Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

(Matt 14:4) For John said unto him, It is not lawful for thee to have her.

(Matt 14:5) And when he would have put him to death, he feared the multitude, because they counted him as a prophet.

(Matt 14:16) But Jesus said unto them, They need not depart; give ye them to eat.

(Matt 14:17) And they say unto him, We have here but five loaves, and two fishes.

(Matt 14:35) And when the men of that place had knowledge of him, they sent out into all that country round about, and brought unto him all that were diseased;

(Matt 15:30) And great multitudes came unto him, having with them those that were lame, blind, dumb, maimed, and many others, and cast them down at Jesus' feet; and he healed them:

(Matt 15:32) Then Jesus called his disciples unto him, and said, I have compassion on the multitude, because they continue with me now three days, and have nothing to eat: and I will not send them away fasting, lest they faint in the way.

(Matt 15:34) And Jesus saith unto them, How many loaves have ye? And they said, Seven, and a few little fishes.

(Matt 17:20) And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

(Matt 18:8) Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

(Matt 18:9) And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

(Matt 18:25) But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.

(Matt 19:16) And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

(Matt 19:21) Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

(Matt 19:22) But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

(Matt 21:3) And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath need of them; and straightway he will send them.

(Matt 21:21) Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

(Matt 21:26) But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet.

(Matt 21:28) But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.

(Matt 21:46) But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.

(Matt 22:12) And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.

(Matt 22:24) Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.

(Matt 22:25) Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:

(Matt 22:28) Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.

(Matt 24:19) And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

(Matt 25:25) And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.

(Matt 25:28) Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.

(Matt 25:29) For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

(Matt 26:7) There came unto him a woman having an alabaster box of very precious ointment, and poured it on his head, as he sat at meat.

(Matt 26:11) For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always.

(Matt 26:65) Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.

(Matt 27:16) And they had then a notable prisoner, called Barabbas.

(Matt 27:65)  Pilate said unto them, Ye have a watch: go your way, make it as sure as ye can.

(Mark 1:22) And they were astonished at his doctrine: for he taught them as one that had authority, and not as the scribes.

(Mark 1:32) And at even, when the sun did set, they brought unto him all that were diseased, and them that were possessed with devils.

(Mark 1:34) And he healed many that were sick of divers diseases, and cast out many devils; and suffered not the devils to speak, because they knew him.

(Mark 1:38) And he said unto them, Let us go into the next towns, that I may preach there also: for therefore came I forth.

(Mark 2:10) But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)

(Mark 2:17) When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

(Mark 2:19) And Jesus said unto them,  Can the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them? as long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast.

(Mark 2:25) And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?

(Mark 3:1) And he entered again into the synagogue; and there was a man there which had a withered hand.

(Mark 3:3) And he saith unto the man which had the withered hand, Stand forth.

(Mark 3:10) For he had healed many; insomuch that they pressed upon him for to touch him, as many as had plagues.

(Mark 3:15) And to have power to heal sicknesses, and to cast out devils:

(Mark 3:22) And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.

(Mark 3:26) And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.

(Mark 3:29) But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

(Mark 3:30) Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

(Mark 4:5) And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth:

(Mark 4:6) But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away.

(Mark 4:9) And he said unto them, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

(Mark 4:17) And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.

(Mark 4:23) If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

(Mark 4:25) For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath.

(Mark 4:40) And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith?

(Mark 5:3) Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:

(Mark 5:15) And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.

(Mark 5:23) And besought him greatly, saying, My little daughter lieth at the point of death: I pray thee, come and lay thy hands on her, that she may be healed; and she shall live.

(Mark 6:18) For John had said unto Herod, It is not lawful for thee to have thy brother's wife.

(Mark 6:34) And Jesus, when he came out, saw much people, and was moved with compassion toward them, because they were as sheep not having a shepherd: and he began to teach them many things.

(Mark 6:36) Send them away, that they may go into the country round about, and into the villages, and buy themselves bread: for they have nothing to eat.

(Mark 6:38)  He saith unto them, How many loaves have ye? go and see. And when they knew, they say, Five, and two fishes.

(Mark 6:55) And ran through that whole region round about, and began to carry about in beds those that were sick, where they heard he was.

(Mark 7:16) If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

(Mark 7:25) For a certain woman, whose young daughter had an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell at his feet:

(Mark 8:1) In those days the multitude being very great, and having nothing to eat, Jesus called his disciples unto him, and saith unto them,

(Mark 8:2) I have compassion on the multitude, because they have now been with me three days, and have nothing to eat:

(Mark 8:5) And he asked them, How many loaves have ye? And they said, Seven.

(Mark 8:7) And they had a few small fishes: and he blessed, and commanded to set them also before them.

(Mark 8:14) Now the disciples had forgotten to take bread, neither had they in the ship with them more than one loaf.

(Mark 8:16) And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have no bread.

(Mark 8:17) And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, Why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened?

(Mark 8:18) Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember?

(Mark 9:17) And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb spirit;

(Mark 9:43) And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

(Mark 9:45) And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

(Mark 9:47) And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

(Mark 9:50) Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.

(Mark 10:21) Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

(Mark 10:22) And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

(Mark 10:23) And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

(Mark 11:3) And if any man say unto you, Why do ye this? say ye that the Lord hath need of him; and straightway he will send him hither.

(Mark 11:13) And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.

(Mark 11:22) And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.

(Mark 11:25) And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

(Mark 11:32) But if we shall say, Of men; they feared the people: for all men counted John, that he was a prophet indeed.

(Mark 12:6) Having yet therefore one son, his wellbeloved, he sent him also last unto them, saying, They will reverence my son.

(Mark 12:23) In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife.

(Mark 12:44) For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.

(Mark 13:17) But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

(Mark 14:3) And being in Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, as he sat at meat, there came a woman having an alabaster box of ointment of spikenard very precious; and she brake the box, and poured it on his head.

(Mark 14:7) For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always.

(Mark 14:8) She hath done what she could: she is come aforehand to anoint my body to the burying.

(Mark 14:63) Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses?

(Mark 16:8) And they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid.

(Mark 16:18) They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

(Luke 3:8) Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

(Luke 3:11) He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.

(Luke 4:33) And in the synagogue there was a man, which had a spirit of an unclean devil, and cried out with a loud voice,

(Luke 4:40) Now when the sun was setting, all they that had any sick with divers diseases brought them unto him; and he laid his hands on every one of them, and healed them.

(Luke 5:24) But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house.

(Luke 5:31) And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.

(Luke 6:8) But he knew their thoughts, and said to the man which had the withered hand, Rise up, and stand forth in the midst. And he arose and stood forth.

(Luke 7:2) And a certain centurion's servant, who was dear unto him, was sick, and ready to die.

(Luke 7:8) For I also am a man set under authority, having under me soldiers, and I say unto one, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.

(Luke 7:33) For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.

(Luke 7:40) And Jesus answering said unto him, Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And he saith, Master, say on.

(Luke 7:42) And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most?

(Luke 8:6) And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.

(Luke 8:8) And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

(Luke 8:13)  They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Question about John 3:16 in Young's translation
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2012, 07:55:16 PM »
The G2192 is to big to post. But I think what's posted should give a fair impression.
If needed I can post the other verses split over several posts.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Question about John 3:16 in Young's translation
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2012, 09:55:30 PM »
Hey there, for some time now I've been using Young's Literal Translation as opposed to the NIV or the NKJV and I'm really finding so much evidence for a better theology than I had known before. Today I came about this here, but I need some help to know what this is about.

Young's Literal Translation John 3:16

for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.

The focus is on "may". Does the original greek here mean that nobody MAY perish, as, it simply must not happen? Or does it simply mean that nobody should perish except if something foolish like rejection of Christ or too much sin or something like that happens?

the word perish is 'apollumi', a word that causes some consternation because it is sometimes used, clearly by context, to mean kill or destroy, where as other times it means , clearly by context, "lost". But in this case, I think may, Gr. mē, simply means a negative, preventing the effect of 'apollumi', - whoever believes in Him will not/should not/may not(simply and expression of the negative) be lost or perish(remain in death) but will have entered "aionian zoe", the life of the ages to come.

In King James times "should not" meant will not, and "may not" also meant will not in the 1860;s when Young published.

Should not held more negative force in the expression of the speakers thoughts in that time, as did may not in Young's time.

The Greek word mē  is a clear negative force in virtually all of the 600 plus times it is used in the New Testament, and in John 3:16 it is not accompanied by anything that justifies the addition of "should" or "may". These were added by the translaters for readability in English.

The actual translation would be

Joh 3:15  ιναG2443 So that/because  παςG3956 all οG3588 that  πιστευωνG4100 believes  ειςG1519 in/into  αυτονG846 him  μηG3361 not  αποληταιG622 apollumi/die  αλλG235 but instead/contrariwise  εχηG2192 hold/enjoy ζωηνG2222 zoe/life  αιωνιονG166 aionios/aionian-of the ages

In my humble opinion this is the proper translation.

So that all that believe into Him die not but instead enjoy aionian life.


This is in accordance with the Lord's statements over the following chapters, and shows what John is revealing in the scroll

`Verily, verily, I say to you--He who is hearing my word, and is believing Him who sent me, hath life age-during, and to judgment he doth not come, but hath passed out of the death to the life.
(Joh 5:24)

`Verily, verily, I say to you, He who is believing in me, hath life age-during;
(Joh 6:47)


This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
(Joh 6:50)......

"This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever."
(Joh 6:58)

will live forever is....... (zoe) live (eis) in (tov) the (aion) age  - meaning (IMO) "experience olam life". 

aion (Gr) comes from "olam"(Heb) which means, other world/ beyond the horizon/age to come.

"life olam"  is the life of the eternal realm, the life of God, the life beyond the veil- it has many characteristics, one of which is, it lasts forever, or through out all ages and into eternity.



I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
(Joh 8:24)

This is the reverse side, if you believe not . You die in your sins. You do not "experience life olam" (because you have not passed FROM death into life you must pass THROUGH death.)

It does not say, "you must burn forever in hell" :o) it simply says you will die in your sins.





The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com