Author Topic: Gen.2:10-15) & (Rev.22:1-2) Through The Eyes Of A Child  (Read 1962 times)

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Roy Monis

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Gen.2:10-15) & (Rev.22:1-2) Through The Eyes Of A Child
« on: June 14, 2009, 05:41:04 PM »
Hi! All you lovely people.

To start let me ask. Do you consider me old enough at 89 to dream dreams? 'And it shall be in the last days,' God says, 'That I will pour forth of My Spirit on all mankind; And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;" Acts 2:17)?

It's so sad that my "River Of Life" thread had no takers, so let us try this new thread. "Through The Eyes Of A Child."

"Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." (Jn.3:3)
"Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all." (Luke 18:17).

Now let us examine (Gen.2:10-25 and Gen.3:1-24). When Adam and Eve were mere innocent children of God, if you'll notice, God walked with man freely in the garden. In other words the River of Life - mentioned in (Rev.22:1-2) -  flowed freely in the garden nourishing all that man cultivated.

"Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. The LORD God planted a garden toward the east, in Eden; and there He placed the man whom He had formed. Out of the ground the LORD God caused to grow every tree that is pleasing to the sight and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.….Then the LORD God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it. The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely. Then the LORD God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it. The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."…"And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed."  (Gen.2:7-9, 15-17.

Now let us take a look at what happens when man falls:  : "Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, "Indeed, has God said, 'You shall not eat from any tree of the garden'?" "The woman said to the serpent, "From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."......The serpent said to the woman, "You surely will not die! For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil. When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.  " ........"Then the Lord God called to the man, and said to him, "Where are you?" He said, "I heard the sound of You in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid myself." And He said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?"....."therefore the Lord God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken. So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life."   (Gen.3:1-5,9-11,23,24).

Satan plants his seed of knowledge of good and evil into the mind – intellect – of  two innocent children and in the process all fall: For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous. (Rom.5:19), man becomes an adult with power independent of God, hence God drives him out of the garden and departs, leaving man as an orphan.

But our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ promises us that if we will once again reduce ourselves to the state that Adam and Eve were in as innocent children in the garden that God planted, he will bring us out of the bondage of that orphanage of death into the freedom of life again:   "So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free." (Jn.8:31-32). For this to come about we must be Born Again by completely divesting ourselves of every vestige of Satan's seed from our mind, which means we must drive Satan's seed - INTELLECT - out into the wilderness and allow the HOLY SPIRIT of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ in to take His rightful place in our hearts.

So remove all preconceived ideas and values and start from scratch again, the Lord is at the door waiting: "'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me. 'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'  (Rev.3:20-22).  Please open that door.

Love

Roy    (UK)

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Re: Gen.2:10-15) & (Rev.22:1-2) Through The Eyes Of A Child
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2009, 06:27:25 PM »
Too bad, Roy, that most of the world likes to open the door and look in.
Not many actually walk through to the other side.

Roy Monis

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Re: Gen.2:10-15) & (Rev.22:1-2) Through The Eyes Of A Child
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2009, 11:50:43 PM »
Quote
Too bad, Roy, that most of the world likes to open the door and look in.
Not many actually walk through to the other side.

Dear Beloved Servant

Your sarcasm is truly misplaced here brother, this is God's Word we are discussing, remember,  and all that is being quoted is God's Word so you're actually making jest at His Word. Be careful brother, you're on dangerous ground. Confine your sarcasm to matters of the world NOT God's realm.

Love

Roy   (UK)

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Re: Gen.2:10-15) & (Rev.22:1-2) Through The Eyes Of A Child
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2009, 12:04:51 AM »
Dude,
I was not being sarcastic.

Roy Monis

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Re: Gen.2:10-15) & (Rev.22:1-2) Through The Eyes Of A Child
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2009, 01:15:10 PM »
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Dude,
I was not being sarcastic.


Dear Beloved Servant.

Forgive my ignorance, but I do not know what Dude means. I pray it is not an abusive expression.

I am not a highly educated person. I do not possess any degrees. With an elementary junior school certificate as my credential I stand just two places away from total iliteracy which is in keeping with my Lord Jesus Christ, most of His chosen Apostles and the author of some of the Scriptures we pin our faith on - Paul. In the case of our Lord: "Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this man get all these things? " (Matt.13:55). In the case of His Apostles: "Now as they observed the confidence of Peter and John and understood that they were uneducated and untrained men, they were amazed, and began to recognize them as having been with Jesus."  (Acts 4:13). In the case of Paul a highly educated man reduced to 0 level and taught afresh, contrary to all his previous education, what we read of him in the Scriptures today: For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ." ( Gal.1:11).

When I refer back to some of my posts it frightens me. Because if you were to meet me in person you would not credit such to be of my doing. So I ask if not my doing then whose? All I know is that before I sit down to answer the mail I receive, I pray that the Lord will do His will and let my finger deliver His message through the key board.

But Why I am disclosing these personal details I don't know. But what I do know is, that He is doing it for a purpose, that is all.  God bless.

Love

Roy   (UK)
 
 
 

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Re: Gen.2:10-15) & (Rev.22:1-2) Through The Eyes Of A Child
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2009, 05:40:36 PM »
Dear Roy, again, I simply meant what I said.
That many stand at the door and look in.
Few choose to follow on to know the Lord.

Oh! it just dawned on me while typing this.
My statement, sir, was not directed at you.
It was simply an observation of the ages.

Offline Sarah

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Re: Gen.2:10-15) & (Rev.22:1-2) Through The Eyes Of A Child
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2009, 06:14:58 PM »
Quote
which means we must drive Satan's seed - INTELLECT - out into the wilderness

You are presuming satan's seed to be intellect?

Intellect does not equal satan's seed. Intellect is not our enemy; our enemy is the lust of the eye, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life. It is these that twist the intellect to serve its desires.

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Re: Gen.2:10-15) & (Rev.22:1-2) Through The Eyes Of A Child
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2009, 06:31:13 PM »
That was precious Sarah,
The same 3 things that caused the fall of man,
are the same 3 things that led to his redemption.

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Gen.2:10-15) & (Rev.22:1-2) Through The Eyes Of A Child
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2009, 06:53:10 PM »
Satan plants his seed of knowledge of good and evil into the mind – intellect

Quote
For this to come about we must be Born Again by completely divesting ourselves of every vestige of Satan's seed from our mind, which means we must drive Satan's seed - INTELLECT - out into the wilderness and allow the HOLY SPIRIT of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ in to take His rightful place in our hearts.



Gn 3:22 . And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live  for the eon!




Roy Monis

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Re: Gen.2:10-15) & (Rev.22:1-2) Through The Eyes Of A Child
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2009, 02:30:49 PM »
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Dear Roy, again, I simply meant what I said.
That many stand at the door and look in.
Few choose to follow on to know the Lord.

Oh! it just dawned on me while typing this.
My statement, sir, was not directed at you.
It was simply an observation of the ages.


Dear Beloved Servant

I see now what you mean, my brother, and forgive me for misreading your intent. It is I who owe you an apology and I unreservedly offer it to you now in brotherly love. "Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, your brotherly kindness, love. For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ" (2Pet.1:5-8). So please read my latest posting to sister Rosered as it involves you and brothers Cardinal and reFORMer.

Love

Roy   (UK)
 
 
 

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Re: Gen.2:10-15) & (Rev.22:1-2) Through The Eyes Of A Child
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2009, 04:42:29 PM »
No problem Roy.
However, I was quite confused for a spell.
Peace.

Roy Monis

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Re: Gen.2:10-15) & (Rev.22:1-2) Through The Eyes Of A Child
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2009, 09:19:33 PM »
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You are presuming satan's seed to be intellect?

Intellect does not equal satan's seed. Intellect is not our enemy; our enemy is the lust of the eye, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life. It is these that twist the intellect to serve its desires.


Dear sister Sarah.

You are absolutely right in one respect but I do believe that my postings have been taken in a different way to what I intended. Intellect itself was created by God for man's survival, it is good not bad. Without it man could not rule over what God has placed under his stewardship, in truth he would not be able to progress or even exist without it. So please don't get me wrong.

When I am dealing in matters relating to God, I live with Him in His realm the spiritual and leave the physical to those who want to progress in the physical. In the spiritual realm two seeds were planted into God given man's intellect. One of God and the other of Satan. It is the intellect with Satan's seed planted in it that is the focus of my attention and the one which I am saying must be sent into the wilderness and replaced with the original seed of God, His Holy Spirit.

I believe that we are getting involved in two worlds at the same time and that is not possible because the two are in opposition and enmity to one another: "Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world. The world is passing away, and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God lives forever." (1Jn.2:15-17).

Now I pray let us keep in the spiritual realm of God and continue. It is the seeds that have been planted into the intellect that I make reference to. And as we are discussing God's realm, my focus is on Satan's seed that has been planted into it. It is that intellect and no other that I'm referring to as Satan's seed.

When God walked with man in the garden and planted His seed, the Holy Spirit in him, man had no knowledge of anything other than God. "And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed." (Gen.2:25).

He had no idea of any such thing as lust of the eyes or of the flesh at that time, he was under the influence of the Holy Spirit that His Creator God had implanted in him. He was as inncent as a child.

Now let us see what happens after the fall. "And He said, 'Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?'" (Gen.3:11). Who was it that told him that he was naked? Was it the Holy Spirit that God had implanted in him or someone else?

Let us read on: "Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings." (Gen.3:7).

Why loin covering, sister? What do man's eyes most avidly feast on in their nakedness. Is it not the lust of the eyes and lust of the flesh? So this is where the lust factor comes in. But who has brought it in?

Let us read on: "Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Indeed, has God said, 'You shall not eat from any tree of the garden'?" The woman said to the serpent, "From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat; but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.' " The serpent said to the woman, "You surely will not die! For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God,  knowing good and evil." When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate." (Gen.3:1-6).

Here we uncover that naughty little serpent. They believed his lies, trusting in their newly acquired knowledge of good and evil, and having eaten Satan immediately planted his seed into their heart –intellect.  Instead of trusting in their Creator, God, they believed Satan's lie. Thus replacing their original knowledge of their Creator, God's Holy Spirit, with the seed of the liar: "... Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies." (Jn.8:44)

It is this intellect that controls man's spiritual life, it is this seed of Satan that needs to be driven into the wilderness so that God's seed the Holy Spirit can occupy His rightful place in man's heart. Is it not Satan who is the ruler of this physical world? And does not Intellect which is a part of man belong to the world? So intellect is worldly. Both God and Satan vie for its possession. Who are we going to allow to rule over it? That is the conscious decision we all have to make and decide on the action we have to take.

Presently the ruler of this world is Satan, it is his dominion:  to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.'  (Acts.26:18), and all Christianity is under his influence due to man's  persistence over the past 2000 years using his spiritual intellect which is Satan's seed, to – STUDY – God's word in an attempt to unseal that which His Almighty God has specifically commanded to be CONCEALED and SEALED. If this isn't Satan's seed at work I don't know what else it could be?

I don't know if he realizes that in doing this he is challenging God's authority and at the same time attempting to usurp our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ's sole right to open and look into the Sealed Book, and in so doing bringing on themselves the notion of worthiness which is another of our Lord's sole rights. But the Lord says: "Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out." (Jn.12:31). And if the ruler is cast out, who else I wonder will be cast out with him: "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNES." (Matt.7:22-23). Take note, not the FEW but the MANY.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief  and a robber. But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep. To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. A stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers."    (Jn.10:1-5).

"Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall."
"Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.
.(Matt.7:24-27).

So you see, my sister in Christ Jesus, it is this intellect which is the seed of Satan.

Love

Roy    (UK)

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Gen.2:10-15) & (Rev.22:1-2) Through The Eyes Of A Child
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2009, 09:24:44 PM »

Roy,

How does this verse fit into what your saying?


Gn 3:22 . And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live  for the eon!

Roy Monis

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Re: Gen.2:10-15) & (Rev.22:1-2) Through The Eyes Of A Child
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2009, 10:58:28 PM »
Quote
That was precious Sarah,
The same 3 things that caused the fall of man,
are the same 3 things that led to his redemption.
 
   
 

Dear Beloved Servant

As in my reply to sister Sarah. The Intellect is a gift of God to man and as such is good and beneficial.

But we are talking on two different levels, one spiritual and the other physical. Man's intellect is implanted with two seeds. The Seed of the knowledge of God, which is is Holy Spirit and the seed of Satan which is the knowledge of good and evil. These two seeds are spirital by nature and must be approached as such. Sarah's reasoning is coming through the intellect of the world, that is to say by her study of the Word of God, which I believe the Spirit is telling me is the seed of Satan. But I in no way wish to deter or discourage you or Sarah or for that matter anyone else on this forum. It was revealed to me by my God and I believe it. It is mine and I am duty bound to share it and in obedience, that is all I am doing: "Then He said to me, "Son of man, go to the house of Israel and speak with My words to them. For you are not being sent to a people of unintelligible speech or difficult language, but to the house of Israel, nor to many peoples of unintelligible speech or difficult language, whose words you cannot understand. But I have sent you to them who should listen to you; yet the house of Israel will not be willing to listen to you, since they are not willing to listen to Me. Surely the whole house of Israel is stubborn and obstinate." (Ezek.3:4-7). Whether you accept it or not is none of my concern, that is God's jurisdiction and I leave that well alone. I am not one of those soul savers: "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the prophets, 'And they shall all be taught of God.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.  (Jn.6:44-45).

We cannot live in two worlds at the same time. One is the physical world which we look at with our physical eyes, the other is the spiritual world which we must look at with spiritual eyes. The two worlds are totally different, one is God's realm and the other Satan's dominion and they cannot live together. So we have to decide whether we want to adapt ourselves to live in God's realm or be satisfied with our present abode in Satan's dominion: "Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world. The world is passing away, and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God lives forever." (1Jn.2:15-17).

For the rest of what I believe the Lord is saying to me on this, please read my missive to sister Sarah.

Love

Roy  (UK)


Roy Monis

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Re: Gen.2:10-15) & (Rev.22:1-2) Through The Eyes Of A Child
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2009, 11:46:49 PM »
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Gn 3:22 . And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live  for the eon
!

Dear Brother Paul

That is Scripture and it is infallible so you are perfectly right in what you see.  Man had corrupted himself and God is Perfect He will not tolerate the slightest bit of corruption in His kingdom, that is why he cast man out of the garden and set a cherubin with a flaming sword to guard it, so he wouldn't be able to take of the tree of life and live forever. Because if he had succeeded he would have been like God, and Satan knew this. The trees in the garden are God's property, He planted them. So the two trees of Life and Good and Evil were placed right in the middle of the garden for them to make a choice. One was appealing to the eyes the other was not so enticing. That is why God' said to Adam of every tree you may eat but of the tree of good and evil you must not eat, (As Sarah would say an assumption which it is, but a faily accurate one I'd say) it was a test to try man just as all the trials of Job were tests to try him. Unfortunately Adam failed the test where Job succeeded. The tree of life was available for man to eat of and live for ever, but again he believed the lie and chose the wrong tree because he saw that it was a delight for the eyes whereas the other didn't look as good: "When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate." (Gen.3:6). Is that not the wisdom that we have now, which God calls fooishness:
"For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God. For it is written, "He is THE ONE WHO CATCHES THE WISE IN THEIR CRAFTINESS"; and again, "THE LORD KNOWS THE REASONINGS of the wise, THAT THEY ARE USELESS." (1Cor.3:19-20).

Love

Roy   (UK)

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Gen.2:10-15) & (Rev.22:1-2) Through The Eyes Of A Child
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2009, 12:11:24 AM »
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Gn 3:22 . And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live  for the eon
!

Dear Brother Paul

That is Scripture and it is infallible so you are perfectly right in what you see.  Man had corrupted himself and God is Perfect He will not tolerate the slightest bit of corruption in His kingdom, that is why he cast man out of the garden and set a cherubin with a flaming sword to guard it, so he wouldn't be able to take of the tree of life and live forever. Because if he had succeeded he would have been like God, and Satan knew this. The trees in the garden are God's property, He planted them. So the two trees of Life and Good and Evil were placed right in the middle of the garden for them to make a choice. One was appealing to the eyes the other was not so enticing. That is why God' said to Adam of every tree you may eat but of the tree of good and evil you must not eat, (As Sarah would say an assumption which it is, but a faily accurate one I'd say) it was a test to try man just as all the trials of Job were tests to try him. Unfortunately Adam failed the test where Job succeeded. The tree of life was available for man to eat of and live for ever, but again he believed the lie and chose the wrong tree because he saw that it was a delight for the eyes whereas the other didn't look as good: "When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate." (Gen.3:6). Is that not the wisdom that we have now, which God calls fooishness:
"For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God. For it is written, "He is THE ONE WHO CATCHES THE WISE IN THEIR CRAFTINESS"; and again, "THE LORD KNOWS THE REASONINGS of the wise, THAT THEY ARE USELESS." (1Cor.3:19-20).

Love

Roy   (UK)




Hi Roy,  it is possible I am misunderstanding your previous posts,  you seem to be saying that the knowledge of good and evil is the intellect that Satan planted into man.

The reason I asked you about that verse is that God is saying that he also has the knowledge of good and evil and related that knowledge in man as being like God.  This would seem to be saying that the knowledge of good and evil is not the problem and is not the corrupt seed of Satan that we must rid ourselves of.

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Re: Gen.2:10-15) & (Rev.22:1-2) Through The Eyes Of A Child
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2009, 06:03:30 AM »
Quote
In the spiritual realm two seeds were planted into God given man's intellect. One of God and the other of Satan.

To me this sending the seed of Satan out into the wilderness that's planted into the spiritual intellect is so confusing. Which of course you'll say,"Your using your satan spiritual intellect so you don't understand."

Don't you think the 'lust of the eye', 'the lust of the flesh', and the 'pride of life' were already present in Adam?  No need for satan to plant anything. The serpant just whispered to invoke the carnal nature that already lusted for the pretty tree, the knowledge of good and evil, and the pride of having it. The tree of knowledge of good and evil isn't satan's seed, our carnal nature is. God has the knowledge of good and evil and would you call him satan's seed?

I'm sorry if I'm not understanding you, I'll read this thread in the morning when I'm fresh.

Thanks, Sarah

Roy Monis

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Re: Gen.2:10-15) & (Rev.22:1-2) Through The Eyes Of A Child
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2009, 05:59:20 PM »
 
Quote
Hi Roy,  it is possible I am misunderstanding your previous posts,  you seem to be saying that the knowledge of good and evil is the intellect that Satan planted into man.


Dear brother Paul


Please remember! I am neither a teacher nor a prophet and I have no desire to be one.

I standby what I wrote and I believe that is what the Spirit told me and I will try and clarify why I said it. I believe that the tree of knowledge of good and evil that Adam ate of, died with him before he could reach out and take of the tree of Life.

The tree of Knowledge and the tree of Life are God's own creation. Only God has the knowledge of good and evil and the knowledge of Life, He is Life. We are presently all directing our focus on that Life. That very Life came to us 2000 years ago, but the world was in darkness and could not comprehend it:  "In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it." (Jn.1:4-5).

But this is drifting away from your question, so let us return to it.

Before I go any further, please allow me to congratulate you for raising that point (well spotted) it shows that you are truly seeking God. Your spiritual eyes are truly opening, brother, keep up the good work. You have drawn my attention to something that had totally escaped me till now, that is the purpose of this forum, I believe, that we help and encourage one another and not pick on petty issues for pure arguments sake. I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your help and encouragement.

All through God's Holy History Book (your Bible), if you read it as you would a beautiful love story and not STUDY it, you'll see that God tests man and sets certain obstacles in his path. You can read about it in the Book of Judges;("Now these are the nations which the LORD left, to test Israel by them (that is, all who had not experienced any of the wars of Canaan; only in order that the generations of the sons of Israel might be taught war, those who had not experienced it formerly). These nations are: the five lords of the Philistines and all the Canaanites and the Sidonians and the Hivites who lived in Mount Lebanon, from Mount Baal-hermon as far as Lebo-hamath. They were for testing Israel, to find out if they would obey the commandments of the LORD, which He had commanded their fathers through Moses. The sons of Israel lived among the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; and they took their daughters for themselves as wives, and gave their own daughters to their sons, and served their gods. The sons of Israel did what was evil in the sight of the LORD, and forgot the LORD their God and served the Baals and the Asheroth    (Judges3:1-7)

You can read about it in the Book of Job, too long an article for me to reproduce here. In fact you can read about it in every generation from Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Joshua, Judges, Kings, to the sacking of Jerusalem. The story is the same. God puts man to the test. Sometimes man succeeds and on others he is an abysmal failure and it is then that he cries out to the Lord for help. You have seen it happen for the past 2000 years (the longest in man's history), you can see it happening today and very soon you are going to hear that cry for help, and this time louder than ever before but this time there is going to be no help, only Divine Reptribution. 

But in the case of Adam as you have read, before he reached out and took of the Tree of Life, God stepped in and cast him out and placed His cherubim at the entrance with a flaming sword.

So why did God stop Adam from reaching up and taking from the tree of Life? Was it because God was afraid that Adam would become like Him as the father of lies, Satan, told Eve? No! Adam was dead, if he had reached up and taken of the tree of Life he would have condemned himself to eternal death with no hope of recovery. If he had eaten of it that eternal death would be our inheritance today, but through our God's abundant grace, mercy, and love for the world He created, all mankind (living and dead) can hope for reconciliation and eternal Life: "This is the promise which He Himself made to us: eternal life." (1Jn.2:25).

The tree of knowledge that Adam received died with him. Now this is going to be a bone of contention with sister Sarah so before that happens I am going to admit that what follows is an assumption, based on the information we have from all the accounts mentioned above I would hazard a guess and say it is a fairly accurate one. It is not the word of God since He has not made it plain in the way He has in some of the other accounts. I hold by what I said, brother, but I do not know the answer for sure, so accept it or leave it.) 

From what I believe the Spirit is saying to me about it, is that God allowed Satan to use it to test Adam and Eve, just as He did in the case of Job. I can visualize Satan saying to God, "Oh yes, as long as there is nothing tempting placed before him to attract his attention, sure he'll obey you! But disclose the contents of the two trees to him and then see the result? To which God replies, "OK go ahead the tree is yours."

Please remember! This is pure conjecture on my part. For the correct answer you must ask the Lord within as I will be doing. He will deliver the true answer and He alone.

The only advice I can offer is to read, read and keep reading, page by page, cover to cover, over and over again and at each re-run you'll be shown more without the asking. In time you will have no reason to read it at all as the Lord will emboss it in your heart. If you don't understand something just ask; not me, not any man, ask the Lord seated within: "These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you. As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him." (1Jn.2:26-27)

But please don't be tempted to allow your God given gift of –INTELLECT- to STUDY His word which He has specifically commanded to be CLOSED. That is a grave sin of rebellion, a challenge to His authority and an attempt to usurp our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ's sole right. If you do fall for that temptation you will lose all the treasures your God has entrusted you with.       

I pray this helps you in some small way.

Love

Roy     (UK)


Roy Monis

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Re: Gen.2:10-15) & (Rev.22:1-2) Through The Eyes Of A Child
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2009, 12:27:51 AM »
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To me this sending the seed of Satan out into the wilderness that's planted into the spiritual intellect is so confusing. Which of course you'll say,"Your using your satan spiritual intellect so you don't understand."


Dear sister Sarah

No! I'm not going to say any such thing, that would amount to disouraging you and woe be me if I should cause any of His children to stumble,"And whoever receives one such child in My name receives Me; but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea." (Matt.18:5-6). That warning is good enough for me, sister, so you need have no fear on that score. You are genuinely searching for God, and He knows it so have no fear, He will provide.

I'll try and put it another way. Intellect is good, it is provided by God for a purpose. It is worldly, that is to say it belongs in this world to provide us with the ability to STUDY worldly text books on how to get to the moon and such. There is absolutely nothing wrong in that, it is God's gift for man and he can use it to the best of his ability. But you and I don't want to go to the moon, we're searching for God. But again, and this is a big BUT there is a limit to its potential. If you have a licence to drive a car you cannot use it to fly a 747 Jumbo jet air liner. Now can you? You wouldn't get any passengers for a start. In like manner you cannot use your intellect which is of the world (car), and attempt to decode or interpret the Word of God (747 jet). The two are literally worlds apart. One is spiritual and the other worldly or physical.

And to top that they literally hate one another and cant abide together, "Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world. The world is passing away, and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God lives forever." ((1Jn.2:15-17).

There you can see the lust factor sent grazing in the wilderness, but those who do the will of God, that is, put their trust in Him and not the world, intellect, live for ever. The slogan is "TRUST IN THE LORD WITH YOUR WHOLE HEART AND DO NOT LEAN ON YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING." (Pro.3:5). The world is at the present time Satan's dominion not God's "....to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me." (Acts 26:18), so if we try to interfere with God's  realm using His enemy's tools then we are in serious trouble: "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNES." (Matt.7:22-23).
 
And regarding my warped sense of humour about Sarah jumping up and saying that's presuming again. I was only kidding, forgive me if it gave offence.

I pray this helps you, sister.

Love

Roy (UK)

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Gen.2:10-15) & (Rev.22:1-2) Through The Eyes Of A Child
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2009, 12:39:49 AM »


I tend to think the issue of intellect and Gods word is a balance.  Don't let intellect get in the way of growth.  Don't let intellect cause division.

The context thread is a good one, where intellect seeks to be right it can cause division as the intellect forms an unmovable barrier to decide what it says, and then when that intellectual barrier is set, then the intellect will often take precidence over humbleness and willingness to learn.

Intellect that seeks to grow in spirit will allow defined words to grow beyond their physical intention.   We inherantly are intellectual because despite the spiritualist movement that seeks to convince the mind that reality is not real, that is false, we think therefore we are intellectual and no amount of words is going to change that.

If the spiritualists could demonstrate the reality of their doctrines and self help books they would start disappearing from the earth as they achieve the type of higher consciousness they say they have grasped.  They all die just like the rest of us.

Intellect that studys to seek growth and unity and spreads love to one another is the balance.


Offline Molly

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Re: Gen.2:10-15) & (Rev.22:1-2) Through The Eyes Of A Child
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2009, 01:21:56 AM »
Psalm 119:105
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.


Don't you think that if we use our intellect in his service, he will direct us in the right paths and make all things known to us?

I think it might be just a problem if we use our intellect in our own service.  But, God taught Adam language for a reason.


Isaiah 42:16
And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them.

Offline Sarah

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Re: Gen.2:10-15) & (Rev.22:1-2) Through The Eyes Of A Child
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2009, 03:44:03 AM »
Thank you for your kind and gentle reply Ray Monis. The scripture you quoted about leaning not your own understanding says it all and I recieve that.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Gen.2:10-15) & (Rev.22:1-2) Through The Eyes Of A Child
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2009, 04:05:01 AM »
Ahh! Sarah,
spoken as a princess.

Roy Monis

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Re: Gen.2:10-15) & (Rev.22:1-2) Through The Eyes Of A Child
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2009, 08:24:27 PM »
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Gn 3:22 . And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live  for the eon!

Dear brother Paul

I have a deep respect for the astute and perfectly legitimate points you make.

Messages which I believe are from God, are as clear as the sun on a cloudless day when they come, but to transfer them into words is the most difficult task in the world. In all languages the use of words can cause endless confusion, more so when Satan is ever ready to pounce. But with God's help I will try to convey what I'm trying to say to you with the minimum of confusion.

Let us start by understanding one point. All things were created by God including Satan: All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. (Jn.1:3). I think we can agree on that as it is Scripture.

So with that understood let us continue to the point you raise.

God is GOD, He has no genealogy, no beginning and no ending. "Without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, he remains a priest perpetually."   (Heb.7:3). These are the attributes of God.

But God created Adam, so he had a beginning, therefore Satan lied to him when he said "you will be like God" (Gen.3:5).  Inferring that he would be exactly like God. Created things can never be like God Himself with having been created by Him including Satin, as they all have a beginning. Satan knew this but he never let on.

So when God said "Behold the man is become as one of US, to know good and evil." He meant precisely that, nothing else. Man had acquired the knowledge of good and evil which only He, God, had before that. In that respect and that respect only was man like God, in the knowledge of good and evil, nothing else.

Now when God said "Lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever."  At this point forgive me, brother, for correcting you, there is no mention of eon in the script, the word is forever we must keep strictly to the script. What Plato, Socrates and Aristotle have to say on the subject of words has no place in God's realm,   "Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"  (Gen.3:22). This is where Satan's seed, intellect, comes in and distorts the pure Word of God.

But let us not stop here there is more to this. Why did God cast man out lest he reach and take of the tree of life? Was it because He was afraid that man would become like Him in all respects as the lying Satan suggested or was there another reason. God knew that was not possible, and Satan knew it as well but, as I said, he didn't let on, "That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun that there is no one besides Me. I am the LORD, and there is no other, the One forming light and creating darkness, causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these." (Isa.45:6-7).

So why did God cast him out? It was because of His abundance of grace, mercy and love for man that He did it, in the knowledge that if man ate of the tree of life he would be sentencing himself to eternal death. The death sentence pronounced on him was redeemable but a sentence of eternal death would have been irretrievable. It is by God's grace that we are here today with a hope of salvation instead of being nonexistent

Does this response adequately answer your quote, Brother, or is there something that I have omitted?

Love

Roy   (UK)

Roy Monis

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Re: Gen.2:10-15) & (Rev.22:1-2) Through The Eyes Of A Child
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2009, 10:18:29 PM »
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I tend to think the issue of intellect and Gods word is a balance.  Don't let intellect get in the way of growth.  Don't let intellect cause division
.

Dear Paul

Absolutely and decidedly wrong. God's Word, is what it says it is, God's Word, it does not cause division; if obeyed it unites and cements men together. Who or what has caused all the division; Catholic, Protestant, Methodist, Prntecostal, Jehovah Witnessess, Mormons, Moonies and literally hundreds more? Was it God, because that is what the Word of God is? Or was it man probing into God's Word, which He has specifically commanded to be Concealed and Sealed? And what prey was he using to perform this diabolical task, was it not Satan's seed which he planted in man's intellect in the garden of Eden replacing the seed of God, the Holy Spirit?

You are still thinking worldly, brother. You have not as yet answered His call, "I WILL DWELL IN THEM AND WALK AMONG THEM; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE. Therefore, COME OUT FROM THEIR MIDST AND BE SEPARATE,"   says the Lord. "AND DO NOT TOUCH WHAT IS UNCLEAN." (2Cor.6:16-17). Their midst means all those disobedient ones who challege His authority and try with Satan's seed to unlock what He has commanded to be closed. The world believes the lie and thinks it means some particular group or division.

This is I, man speaking and delivering a general message, to His hungry children in the making. Don't accept my word because I am a mere man.  If you're truly hungry, try putting your intellect in the dust bin for a short time and humbling yourself on your knees and crying out to God for the answers. Instead of racking your brains studying the Bible to find them. It won't work, unless you're prepared to accept Satan's lies. "For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness. But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ." (2Thess.2:3-14). Your intellect will come to no harm in the bin, you will be able to retrieve it again when you return to the world and use it for what it was intended, your progress in the world but not in God's. Keep them separate.

The message I am delivering is mine, I am only sharing it with you. I'm not pushing it on you or trying to persuade you to accept it, the option is yours. I am just sharing as I am commanded to do.

Look at it this way, brother, I have everything to lose by deceiving you or any of his seeking children, and absolutely nothing to gain. So why am I here in the first place?  "And whoever receives one such child in My name receives Me; but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea."  (Matt.18:5-6).

Love

Roy   (UK)