Author Topic: Once saved always saved vs you can loose your salvation.  (Read 1985 times)

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Roy Monis

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Re: Once saved always saved vs you can loose your salvation.
« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2009, 11:03:16 PM »
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This is a strange questions as it applies to a urist because to us it can't mean 'saved from hell'. But if I apply salvation to mean living free from sin and death in the here and now, then yes, you can certainly loose your salvation. Iv'e seen it and experienced it.


Dear sister Sarah

No it doesn't mean saved from hell, for us hell does not exist that is true. Salation means saved from the sentence of death that we inherited from Adam. Eventually all will be saved - salvation. But you, I and all of us here on this forum are striving to be among the first, that's the only difference as far as I can see. Because we don't believe in hell doesn't mean that we are exempt; "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned." (Rom.5:12) we are all sinners.

And yes! Salvation is for the here and now, if we continue to defy God and sin we lose it. On the other hand if we obey God and live a godly life as free from sin as we possibly can, that is, try to overcome, then salvation is ours. Again I say read and keep reading (2Peter3:1-11), peace will return and fear vanish, "Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful." (Jn.14:27). 

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And what are the works that we keep when we overcome? ....to love God and our neighbor.


Well done Sarah. Love crosseth all boundries because LOVE is GOD. It's as simple as that.

Keep reading 2Peter3:1-11 and that will boost your faith, confidence and hope. So don't worry about trifling matters, keep with the BIG ONE.
 
Love is of God……. Love is God……. This comes to all in love


Roy   (UK)
 

 
 

Offline Tony N

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Re: Once saved always saved vs you can loose your salvation.
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2009, 11:24:32 PM »
So, what's the official :laughing7: universalist stance?

I don't know if this is official but one can lose their salvation from harmful things in this life should they get involved in all manner of sin.

But even should they lose their salvation from those harmful things they cannot lose their allotment of eonian life which is freely given and is not earned so cannot be un-earned. It is gratuitously given.
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Roy Monis

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Re: Once saved always saved vs you can loose your salvation.
« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2009, 11:38:21 PM »
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Since we can only receive the earnest of our salvation now before the reward is given then we are not steadfastly saved.  If we were then what reason is there for overcoming?  But instead I do believe in "once saved always saved" but that only applys to once we receive the salvation which only occurrs at the appearing of Jesus Christ:


Dear brother trettrep

The earnest of our salvation is the down payment, like a deposit. Our hope is that we can overcome by faith and receive the reward. Without hope our faith would collapse or lose heart.

So hope is very essential, the three work together and support one another until LOVE takes over and then the supporters retire from the scene. As John the Baptist said, "He who has the bride is the bridegroom; but the friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly because of the bridegroom's voice. So this joy of mine has been made full. He must increase, but I must decrease." (Jn.3:29-30).

  Love is of God……. Love is God……. This comes to all in love

Roy    (UK)

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Once saved always saved vs you can loose your salvation.
« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2009, 11:57:21 PM »
 :HeartThrob:  faith  :HeartThrob:  hope   :HeartThrob:  love   :HeartThrob:

Roy Monis

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Re: Once saved always saved vs you can loose your salvation.
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2009, 12:08:30 AM »
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Once saved, always saved is held to by Calvinists and some other absolute sovereignty groups. You can lose your salvation is held to by Arminians and other freewill theists.

It seems to me that neither position gets at the real issue, which is that all are eventually saved.

Dear brother DOC

I'm not a very learned man and have no qualifications whatsoever and I don't delve into the beliefs of other groups, so I can only surmise that these groups belong to the Catholic persuasion in some form or other. If so, I have heard a rumour, I couldn't say how true it is, that the vatican had trouble controlling the masses so they borrowed this monstrous idea from the Egyptians to control their minds with fear of an eternal torture chamber - hell - and it appears as though it has been very effective to have survived for 2000 years.

I am not in a position to verify this, so I'll leave it as a passing thought. For me, it is a load of garbage, and I once was a bad practicing Catholic.

  Love is of God……. Love is God……. This comes to all in love
Roy   (UK) 

Offline Doc

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Re: Once saved always saved vs you can loose your salvation.
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2009, 12:12:11 AM »
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Once saved, always saved is held to by Calvinists and some other absolute sovereignty groups. You can lose your salvation is held to by Arminians and other freewill theists.

It seems to me that neither position gets at the real issue, which is that all are eventually saved.

Dear brother DOC

I'm not a very learned man and have no qualifications whatsoever and I don't delve into the beliefs of other groups, so I can only surmise that these groups belong to the Catholic persuasion in some form or other. If so, I have heard a rumour, I couldn't say how true it is, that the vatican had trouble controlling the masses so they borrowed this monstrous idea from the Egyptians to control their minds with fear of an eternal torture chamber - hell - and it appears as though it has been very effective to have survived for 2000 years.

I am not in a position to verify this, so I'll leave it as a passing thought. For me, it is a load of garbage, and I once was a bad practicing Catholic.

  Love is of God……. Love is God……. This comes to all in love
Roy   (UK) 

Calvinism and Arminianism are both protestant systems of theology. But much of it is what I would call "reformed catholicism".
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
"Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me." --C.S. Lewis

God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

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Offline jabcat

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Re: Once saved always saved vs you can loose your salvation.
« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2009, 04:05:46 AM »
So, what's the official :laughing7: universalist stance?

I don't know if this is official but one can lose their salvation from harmful things in this life should they get involved in all manner of sin.

But even should they lose their salvation from those harmful things they cannot lose their allotment of eonian life which is freely given and is not earned so cannot be un-earned. It is gratuitously given.

 :thumbsup:...
 *For by grace are you saved and that not of yourselves, lest any man should boast.
 *For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance
 *But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace
 *Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it unto the day of Jesus Christ
 *Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ
 *We love Him because He first loved us
 *You did not choose Me, I chose you
 *[God] the Author and Finisher of our salvation
 *He will keep that which I've committed unto Him against that day
 *Not of works, lest any man should boast
 *For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them
 *But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness
 *therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
 *For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes 
 *Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified
 *it is finished
 *And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day
 *Who can separate us...? For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,  Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord
 
  *So, for those God saves now (and all He will save later), what can we personally do, or any other thing do to take back or negate God's calling, His gift of salvation?  What can separate us?  "nor things present, nor things to come,...nor any other creature".    

Can we possibly lose some rewards and special positions of honor to serve, and have some of our works not of the Spirit burned/face destruction?  Apparently 'yes', but IMO, that's different than salvation/being saved.  That is a free gift, and God seals those He saves with His Holy Spirit of promise (John 14:16) .

Let's give God credit for knowing what He's doing, and being able to do it  :bigGrin:.  We serve a MIGHTY God, and the end of the Lord is full of mercy!
« Last Edit: June 25, 2009, 04:21:09 AM by jabcat »

Offline Tony N

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Re: Once saved always saved vs you can loose your salvation.
« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2009, 08:12:23 PM »
So, what's the official :laughing7: universalist stance?

I don't know if this is official but one can lose their salvation from harmful things in this life should they get involved in all manner of sin.

But even should they lose their salvation from those harmful things they cannot lose their allotment of eonian life which is freely given and is not earned so cannot be un-earned. It is gratuitously given.

 :thumbsup:...
 *For by grace are you saved and that not of yourselves, lest any man should boast.
 *For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance
 *But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace
 *Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it unto the day of Jesus Christ
 *Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ
 *We love Him because He first loved us
 *You did not choose Me, I chose you
 *[God] the Author and Finisher of our salvation
 *He will keep that which I've committed unto Him against that day
 *Not of works, lest any man should boast
 *For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them
 *But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness
 *therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
 *For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes 
 *Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified
 *it is finished
 *And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day
 *Who can separate us...? For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,  Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord
 
  *So, for those God saves now (and all He will save later), what can we personally do, or any other thing do to take back or negate God's calling, His gift of salvation?  What can separate us?  "nor things present, nor things to come,...nor any other creature".    

Can we possibly lose some rewards and special positions of honor to serve, and have some of our works not of the Spirit burned/face destruction?  Apparently 'yes', but IMO, that's different than salvation/being saved.  That is a free gift, and God seals those He saves with His Holy Spirit of promise (John 14:16) .

Let's give God credit for knowing what He's doing, and being able to do it  :bigGrin:.  We serve a MIGHTY God, and the end of the Lord is full of mercy!

 :thumbsup:
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.