Author Topic: ET believers and miracles  (Read 15962 times)

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Offline micah7:9

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #175 on: October 19, 2010, 02:56:03 AM »
I trully believe the "problem" if there is a problem would become more solved in  those who have Christ in them the hope of glory, to stop..and  in the midst of all the politics and no prayer in school, all the earthy stuff and remember and know....

Php 3:20  For our citizenship is in the heavens, whence also a Saviour we await--the Lord Jesus Christ--

this knowledge will sweep us past all the obstacles it would "seem" we have here in this house of clay in waiting for the twinkling of an eye.

My  :2c:

Peace and Love Through Jesus
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline lomarah

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #176 on: October 19, 2010, 03:01:34 AM »
I trully believe the "problem" if there is a problem would become more solved in  those who have Christ in them the hope of glory, to stop..and  in the midst of all the politics and no prayer in school, all the earthy stuff and remember and know....

Php 3:20  For our citizenship is in the heavens, whence also a Saviour we await--the Lord Jesus Christ--

this knowledge will sweep us past all the obstacles it would "seem" we have here in this house of clay in waiting for the twinkling of an eye.

My  :2c:

Peace and Love Through Jesus

 :2thumbs:  :happy3:
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline thinktank

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #177 on: October 19, 2010, 03:48:47 AM »
what are you guys thoughts on creating a christian states in the US. This way the non christian whoever they may be can live over at x point and the christians can live at x point on the USA map.

The christians states would be founded on the constitution, since its tried and tested.

So a bit like how Judah split from Israel.

I mean how long can Christains live side by side with non christians?

Shouldn't God lead his people into their own land if things get out of hand?



Offline Molly

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #178 on: October 19, 2010, 03:54:23 AM »
what are you guys thoughts on creating a christian states in the US. This way the non christian whoever they may be can live over at x point and the christians can live at x point on the USA map.

The christians states would be founded on the constitution, since its tried and tested.

So a bit like how Judah split from Israel.

I mean how long can Christains live side by side with non christians?

Shouldn't God lead his people into their own land if things get out of hand?
I think it could be done, if you don't take federal assistance for public schools, for instance.  Could you outlaw abortion in your state?  I'm not sure about that.  I doubt it, given the federal law.  But, you could maybe refuse to fund it.  It's an interesting thought--as people think more and more about states' rights.

Offline Lefein

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #179 on: October 19, 2010, 04:14:01 AM »
We are to be salt in the Earth.  God would merely spread us apart again even at our very attempt to build our Babel.
CLV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred, it rouses up quarrels, Yet love covers over all transgressions.
KJV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.

Offline thinktank

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #180 on: October 19, 2010, 04:18:47 AM »
We are to be salt in the Earth.  God would merely spread us apart again even at our very attempt to build our Babel.

Maybe not, he commanded Israel to build Israel

Thats a country with Gods covenant.

Some states have a high amount of christian percentage, if it be Gods will and in his timing they could have their own state laws.

The drug dealers are already doing this, they own many neighbourhoods, but they do it for evil purposes.

 :2c:

Offline micah7:9

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #181 on: October 19, 2010, 05:03:42 AM »
Joh 17:15 I do not ask that Thou mayest take them out of the world, but that Thou mayest keep them out of the evil.
Joh 17:16  `Of the world they are not, as I of the world am not;
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline thinktank

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #182 on: October 19, 2010, 05:26:09 AM »
Joh 17:15 I do not ask that Thou mayest take them out of the world, but that Thou mayest keep them out of the evil.
Joh 17:16  `Of the world they are not, as I of the world am not;

You probably find it to early yet to pack and leave, perhaps you would if conditions got out of hand, but I know many christians who are brave enough would stay to minister to others, such as those that right now are ministering to rough neighbourhoods full of gangsters and criminals.

There are a few christians who are already setting up communities in parts of the states. I sometimes think of doing the same to live as moses in the wilderness, ok maybe not as moses, but to be in a loving community where we grown our own crops etc, sounds good, but I would miss many things though about the modern world.
 :2c:

Offline micah7:9

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #183 on: October 19, 2010, 06:17:21 AM »
Joh 17:15 I do not ask that Thou mayest take them out of the world, but that Thou mayest keep them out of the evil.
Joh 17:16  `Of the world they are not, as I of the world am not;

You probably find it to early yet to pack and leave, perhaps you would if conditions got out of hand, but I know many christians who are brave enough would stay to minister to others, such as those that right now are ministering to rough neighbourhoods full of gangsters and criminals.

There are a few christians who are already setting up communities in parts of the states. I sometimes think of doing the same to live as moses in the wilderness, ok maybe not as moses, but to be in a loving community where we grown our own crops etc, sounds good, but I would miss many things though about the modern world.
 :2c:

I have no expectations of going anywhere, nor do I have asperations of setrting up a commune of some kind. My pattern is the Son and I will stop with this:
Rom 8:18  For I reckon that the sufferings of the present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory about to be revealed in us;
Rom 8:19  for the earnest looking out of the creation doth expect the revelation of the sons of God;
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline reFORMer

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #184 on: October 19, 2010, 07:07:23 AM »
The Federalist Papers give the mind set of the framers of the U. S. Constitution, what they intended in it.
________________________________________

God showed me those who seem at the moment about to prevail in establishing anti-christ and anti-biblical positions in our government as a basis for persecuting Christians are like autumn leaves that can be blown away by the breezes...
"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." (2 Chronicles 7:14; AV)
I don't see evidence, however, that these threats are being taken seriously by the people I talk to or their leaders in the so-called Christian media.

Interesting, how we've come into an era of "rock star" authority for most of those who say they're believers.  Their faith is shaped and their Bible exegesis is done by rock star like figures in the media.  These must appeal to the largest doner base to be able to afford their air time.  At their best they keep you in the shallow end of the pool.  Deep things are controversial; so, don't expect it from them.  Besides, those who have even broached certain topics are swiftly and summarially removed.  God can, however, raise up other "feeds" into the sucklings.

The reason the Church has so little effect on society is because the Church has no effect on the church.  We have paid professionals for that.  Possibly this explains something I've wondered about for a while:  where are the Christian kids in the public schools?  If they understood who they are and what they have, the education system would have to change to accomadate them.  The school grounds are still in the USA where freedom of speech, including religious speech is protected.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2010, 08:57:02 AM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline Lefein

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #185 on: October 19, 2010, 07:12:26 AM »
This may seem a bit odd, but alot of what you just stated Reformer, is why I don't believe "The end is near" like alot of other Christians say after every hurricane or earthquake.  The end is coming, and my watch is not empty, but I feel like we're still in the Christian era equivalent of the book of Judges, if that makes any sort of sense.  There isn't yet a king, and everyone does as they please.

Judges 21:25  In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes.

But a king is coming...Saul first perhaps, but then shall reign The Son of David!
CLV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred, it rouses up quarrels, Yet love covers over all transgressions.
KJV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.

Offline firstborn888

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #186 on: October 19, 2010, 07:15:19 AM »

It would be great to have one nation, under God.  A nation and a people who's God is YHWH, Father of His son, Yesu.

All nations are "under" God: "The earth is the LORD's and the fullness thereof, the world and those who dwell therein"

And yet - I understand exactly what you are saying, yet a nation cannot be Christian as a nation is not a person and cannot be reborn, Spirit filled etc.

What I see happening is a right wing fundie movement which wants a "Christian state" which is an oxymoron, a misnomer and an impossibility. It's the same mistake which wrought havoc in centuries past.

In other words the constitution grands zero rights to people of those religions.
  :sigh: Really? People of non-Christian religions have zero rights under the constitution?  :mshock: It's no wonder minority religions and atheists are terrified of the religious right with sentiments like that floating around. Here's some info:
Madison's original proposal for a bill of rights provision concerning religion read: "The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretence, infringed."   The language was altered in the House to read: "Congress shall make no law establishing religion, or to prevent the free exercise thereof, or to infringe the rights of conscience." In the Senate, the section adopted read: "Congress shall make no law establishing articles of faith, or a mode of worship, or prohibiting the free exercise of religion, . . ." It was in the conference committee of the two bodies, chaired by Madison, that the present language was written with its some what more indefinite "respecting" phraseology.

These men were not stupid and knew exactly what was being stated.
You are right that the Founders only had different flavors of Christianity in mind when they considered freedom of religion, though. 
They made absolutely NO distinction whatsoever. Again - these men were not ignorant of what they were doing.
Too bad they didn't spell it out as freedom of Christianity, though.  lol
Not only did they not spell it out they made the intent crystal clear by not mentioning Jesus at all. These were people who were sick sick SICK of oppression. Virtually every religious state in the history of mankind has a very bad human rights track record (ie: they were oppressive).

The worst day for Christianity is when it became the official Roman state religion.
I trully believe the "problem" if there is a problem would become more solved in  those who have Christ in them the hope of glory, to stop..and  in the midst of all the politics and no prayer in school, all the earthy stuff and remember and know....

Php 3:20  For our citizenship is in the heavens, whence also a Saviour we await--the Lord Jesus Christ--

this knowledge will sweep us past all the obstacles it would "seem" we have here in this house of clay in waiting for the twinkling of an eye.

My  :2c:

Peace and Love Through Jesus
After reading the above I cannot possibly understand why you would be in disagreement with everything I said earlier.

Offline firstborn888

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #187 on: October 19, 2010, 07:21:34 AM »
The Federalist Papers give the mind set of the framers of the U. S. Constitution, what they intended in it.
________________________________________

God showed me those who seem at the moment about to prevail in establishing anti-christ and anti-biblical positions in our government as a basis for persecuting Christians are like autumn leaves that can be blown away by the breezes...
"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." (2 Chronicles 7:14; AV)
I don't see evidence, however, that these threats are being taken seriously by the people I talk to or their leaders in the so-called Christian media.

Interesting, how we've come into an era of "rock star" authority for most of those who say they're believers.  Their faith is shaped and their Bible exegesis is doner by figures like rock stars in the media.

This is called "Christian persecution complex".  Here's an interesting article on the phenomenon:
http://politicalcartel.org/2010/03/05/christian-persecution-complex/

Offline jabcat

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #188 on: October 19, 2010, 07:32:50 AM »
The Federalist Papers give the mind set of the framers of the U. S. Constitution, what they intended in it.
________________________________________

God showed me those who seem at the moment about to prevail in establishing anti-christ and anti-biblical positions in our government as a basis for persecuting Christians are like autumn leaves that can be blown away by the breezes...
"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." (2 Chronicles 7:14; AV)
I don't see evidence, however, that these threats are being taken seriously by the people I talk to or their leaders in the so-called Christian media.

Interesting, how we've come into an era of "rock star" authority for most of those who say they're believers.  Their faith is shaped and their Bible exegesis is doner by figures like rock stars in the media.

This is called "Christian persecution complex".  Here's an interesting article on the phenomenon:
http://politicalcartel.org/2010/03/05/christian-persecution-complex/

And we're supposed to believe this source over a Spirit-filled believer, a Berean searching the scriptures daily to see if these things are true - and the scriptures themselves?  I see quite an atheistic (satanic) influence on the site.  I AM NOT saying nothing they have to say is valid.  I just wouldn't swallow it all hook, line, and sinker, personally.  That's my POV.

Offline firstborn888

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #189 on: October 19, 2010, 07:33:23 AM »
what are you guys thoughts on creating a christian states in the US. This way the non christian whoever they may be can live over at x point and the christians can live at x point on the USA map.

The christians states would be founded on the constitution, since its tried and tested.

So a bit like how Judah split from Israel.

I mean how long can Christains live side by side with non christians?

Shouldn't God lead his people into their own land if things get out of hand?

I would suggest this article http://politicalcartel.org/2010/03/05/christian-persecution-complex/ for more info about the Christian persecution complex in the U.S.


Offline firstborn888

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #190 on: October 19, 2010, 07:36:58 AM »
The Federalist Papers give the mind set of the framers of the U. S. Constitution, what they intended in it.
________________________________________

God showed me those who seem at the moment about to prevail in establishing anti-christ and anti-biblical positions in our government as a basis for persecuting Christians are like autumn leaves that can be blown away by the breezes...
"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." (2 Chronicles 7:14; AV)
I don't see evidence, however, that these threats are being taken seriously by the people I talk to or their leaders in the so-called Christian media.

Interesting, how we've come into an era of "rock star" authority for most of those who say they're believers.  Their faith is shaped and their Bible exegesis is doner by figures like rock stars in the media.

This is called "Christian persecution complex".  Here's an interesting article on the phenomenon:
http://politicalcartel.org/2010/03/05/christian-persecution-complex/

And we're supposed to believe this source over a Spirit-filled believer, a Berean searching the scriptures daily to see if these things are true?  I'll pass.
It just explains some of the ends and outs of the tribal "us verses them" mentality of fundamentalism. There is a specific psychology attached to it and none of us are immune. 

Offline jabcat

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #191 on: October 19, 2010, 07:40:36 AM »
Oh I agree we can learn from many sources.  I just know things can be biased - sometimes EXTREMELY so, on either side of the equation.  I'm careful, and I personally lean to prefering what I'd term as a Christ-centered, scriptural approach.  Again though, I'm not saying nothing they say there is true, I'm sure much of it is.  It just appears much discernment and spiritual "in-tuneness"  :laughing7: (made that up) would likely be in order.  Do you think so?
« Last Edit: October 19, 2010, 07:48:15 AM by jabcat »

Offline jabcat

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #192 on: October 19, 2010, 07:42:55 AM »
Also, plz keep in mind my education and field in which I work is probably one of the most liberal, humanistic, God-ignoring fields there is (you mentioned "psychology" - yep, that's the field I'm talking about  :mblush:).  So I'm not a total rube or snob to "outside" information - (I've read stuff purporting to be the truth, a legitimate,  pure thing, that would make your head spin/your spirit ache) - I just think some things are unecessarily and dangerously biased.  (And I agree, we can all be affected by many things.)

But when I see "deconversion", "I'm now an atheist and better off than when I was a Christian", etc. flashing at me, I take notice.   :icon_rr:
« Last Edit: October 19, 2010, 07:53:16 AM by jabcat »

Offline firstborn888

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #193 on: October 19, 2010, 07:55:00 AM »
Oh I agree we can learn from many sources.  I just know things can be biased - sometimes EXTREMELY so, on either side of the equation. 
I think the article is well rounded. It is even clear that an aggressive atheist agenda (the atheist fringe) in responsible for some of the paranoia.

Offline firstborn888

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #194 on: October 19, 2010, 08:03:59 AM »
(you mentioned "psychology" - yep, that's the field I'm talking about  :mblush:).  So I'm not a total rube or snob to "outside" information - (I've read stuff purporting to be the truth, a legitimate,  pure thing, that would make your head spin/your spirit ache) -
I use the term to describe the mental processes. And, of course, I've read some Christian scholarship purporting to be the truth, a legitimate, pure thing with a similar result as you describe. More than an ache though - more of an intense anguish.
But when I see "deconversion", "I'm now an atheist and better off than when I was a Christian", etc. flashing at me, I take notice.   :icon_rr:
The vast majority of deconversions I know about come about from someone never having a heart experience with God (raised a Catholic, raised a Baptist - whatever). It actually can be a step forward for someone to recognize they have lived a lie. I (for example) completely abandoned my Christian upbringing and became an atheist before my conversion.

Offline jabcat

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #195 on: October 19, 2010, 09:19:43 AM »
 :bigGrin:

Offline Cardinal

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #196 on: October 19, 2010, 10:22:49 AM »
 :cloud9: Who was it that said, "There are no athiests in foxholes."  :dontknow:  All they do is dig themselves a deeper pit from which to cry out to the living God from. My  :2c: Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline thinktank

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #197 on: October 19, 2010, 07:15:48 PM »
The Federalist Papers give the mind set of the framers of the U. S. Constitution, what they intended in it.
________________________________________

God showed me those who seem at the moment about to prevail in establishing anti-christ and anti-biblical positions in our government as a basis for persecuting Christians are like autumn leaves that can be blown away by the breezes...
"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." (2 Chronicles 7:14; AV)
I don't see evidence, however, that these threats are being taken seriously by the people I talk to or their leaders in the so-called Christian media.

Interesting, how we've come into an era of "rock star" authority for most of those who say they're believers.  Their faith is shaped and their Bible exegesis is done by rock star like figures in the media.  These must appeal to the largest doner base to be able to afford their air time.  At their best they keep you in the shallow end of the pool.  Deep things are controversial; so, don't expect it from them.  Besides, those who have even broached certain topics are swiftly and summarially removed.  God can, however, raise up other "feeds" into the sucklings.

The reason the Church has so little effect on society is because the Church has no effect on the church.  We have paid professionals for that.  Possibly this explains something I've wondered about for a while:  where are the Christian kids in the public schools?  If they understood who they are and what they have, the education system would have to change to accomadate them.  The school grounds are still in the USA where freedom of speech, including religious speech is protected.

Good post, very true. You know when people think of Nazi Germany they think 'oh hitler and his government were so evil' but they forget that the people of Germany, Japan and Italy were active particpants of this evil, they cheered them on, fought for them, voted for them, worked for them etc. So in essence governments are often a reflection of the peoples heart.

In king Davids day the people of Israel were behaving well, into the time of solomon, when Israel entered her most  wonderfull time of peace and prosperity, but afterward they tunred away from the lord and the kingdom fell.

So it is true that if the people turn away from their sins and turn to God, God will heal the land and take care of politics. USa is still a free country and it is not to difficult to swing back into the right direction, but if it swings to much into the side of evil, it might be hard to recover.
 :2c:

Offline Molly

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #198 on: October 19, 2010, 08:16:58 PM »
Quote from: firstborn
Not only did they not spell it out they made the intent crystal clear by not mentioning Jesus at all. These were people who were sick sick SICK of oppression. Virtually every religious state in the history of mankind has a very bad human rights track record (ie: they were oppressive).

The worst day for Christianity is when it became the official Roman state religion.

They mentioned Jesus constantly in their private writings, but the oppression they were experiencing in the countries they were fleeing was at the hands of state imposed flavor of Christianity--whether it be episcople or catholic.  Let's be very clear about this--they wanted to worship God according to their own Christian beliefs which were at that time Protestant.  This country was a church relocation project for Protestants.

People like to point to Jefferson as some type of example of someone who wasn't a Christian, yet completely ignore that he put together his own Bible as a statement of his beliefs.  It is clear that he loved Jesus and he ended his life as a born again Christian.

More than anything else, these Founders were illustrating that our relationshipwith the Christian God was profoundly personal ,and all of New England was founded by one Protestant church group splitting off from another and moving to a different location.  Because as you know, Protestants read the Bible--and the Bible is a spiritual journey that keeps us moving alongside the living God.

As far as Constantine is concerned, his conversion is nothing short of a miracle, since at the time Christians were being wiped off the face of the earth, and most likely, wouldn't have made it into the next century wihout him.

Offline thinktank

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #199 on: October 19, 2010, 08:29:48 PM »
The problem with a christian country  or rather christian government is that it would not take long for the wolves to come in and spoil the fun. Making various biblical truths as law and thus causing division, this is what happened in the past.