Author Topic: ET believers and miracles  (Read 11327 times)

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Offline lomarah

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ET believers and miracles
« on: October 05, 2010, 03:07:58 PM »
I have been wondering about something lately. Namely why do ET believers/preachers get miracles if what they are teaching is not completely true? I'm not talking about healings and such, but things like angelic protection when preaching their message. For example, I went to a Bible University and a few of our students went on a missions trip to Haiti where they preached the "good news". All of a sudden their eyes were opened and they saw some huge angels and a bunch of little demons and basically they were seeing a spiritual battle going on while a witch doctor gave his life to Christ.

I also just read a similar story about a preacher preaching the "good news" in a prison with mentally insane inmates and his eyes were opened and he saw a bunch of huge angels protecting him. I just don't understand if their "good news" is not exactly the true good news, why does God protect them and their message? (Mind you I don't know exactly what was said by these preachers, if they mentioned anything about eternal hell or whatnot, but I at least know the students were ET believers.)
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2010, 04:19:53 PM »
Fact, fantasy or lies?
 :2c:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Cardinal

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2010, 06:38:03 PM »
 :cloud9: Because He only holds us accountable for what we KNOW. He looks at the motive of the heart, period. Blessings...
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2010, 07:03:04 PM »
So it's best to know nothing?
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Molly

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2010, 07:38:36 PM »
So it's best to know nothing?
LOL!  Too late for you, ww.

santikos

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2010, 07:48:26 PM »
I believe God is faithful to his name.

Offline lomarah

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2010, 08:47:15 PM »
Fact, fantasy or lies?
 :2c:
IMO it's fact, at least the girls from my university were telling the truth. They are not the type of girls who would lie.

:cloud9: Because He only holds us accountable for what we KNOW. He looks at the motive of the heart, period. Blessings...

Makes sense I guess. I just don't understand how people who so obviously want to follow Him and have dedicated their lives to Him aren't awakened to the understanding that He is saving the whole world.  :dontknow:

I believe God is faithful to his name.
Could you explain this further?

Thanks everyone for your input.  :cloud9:
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline thinktank

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2010, 09:25:47 PM »
ET is a powerful doctrine of the devils, it is not going to go away easilly. That's why emotional appeals to an ET believer does nothing, the devils reinforce the message of eternal hell into them and take away the good seed.

God is no respector of persons so since most churches belive in hell, it would not be great for the kingdom of God if only non Et belivers received his protection and miracles. Also I notice that those in the non Et crowd are much more likely to bring their own beliefs with them . e.g they do not belive in Gods miracles. I often see people on youtube who are not part of the orthodox church who disagree with miracles and so if there are many people like this together in a org that does not belive in ET, then the fact that they do not belive in miracles makes it difficult for God to work miracles in that choked atmosphere.


There is a scripture somehwere in the gospels where Jesus cannot do great works because of their unbelief.


Offline Molly

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2010, 09:49:23 PM »
4But Jesus, said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.

 5And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.

--Mark 6

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2010, 10:09:00 PM »
Also I notice that those in the non Et crowd are much more likely to bring their own beliefs with them . e.g they do not belive in Gods miracles. I often see people on youtube who are not part of the orthodox church who disagree with miracles and so if there are many people like this together in a org that does not belive in ET, then the fact that they do not belive in miracles makes it difficult for God to work miracles in that choked atmosphere.
The world is filled with lies for all kind of reasons. Usually power and/or financial gain. I think that in such a world being sceptical is good. It might evenmake it easier for God to do miracles because if you believe about anything then every true miracle od offset with 100 fake ones. True or false is in the eye of the beholder.
It's not that hard to post a vision you never had. Would it be believed? Depends on what forum I post. If it fits their doctrine it's true if not it's a vision of satan.
I know absolutely nothing about lomarah's friends. How can I know it was real or fake? By just verifiying it with the Bible. Even that won't work because everyone with decent Bible knowledge can write such a thing.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2010, 10:15:59 PM »
All of a sudden their eyes were opened and they saw some huge angels and a bunch of little demons and basically they were seeing a spiritual battle going on while a witch doctor gave his life to Christ.
I have read something similar.
Someone had vision and saw a dead person near the edge of a cliff. Some sort of judgement was going on.
Demons tried to drag the body over the edge (into hell).
The angels tried to drag the body away from the cliff to safety.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2010, 10:19:22 PM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline onlytruth

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2010, 10:20:17 PM »
who sinned?this man or his parents...its for the glory of God not man,Cardinal is right its the heart motive

Offline thinktank

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2010, 10:29:03 PM »
4But Jesus, said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.

 5And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.

--Mark 6

lol, well done molly. You have a great gift at finding the right scripture.  :thumbsup:

Offline Cardinal

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2010, 12:00:27 AM »
:cloud9: Because He only holds us accountable for what we KNOW. He looks at the motive of the heart, period. Blessings...

Makes sense I guess. I just don't understand how people who so obviously want to follow Him and have dedicated their lives to Him aren't awakened to the understanding that He is saving the whole world.  :dontknow:

 :cloud9: Again, it's the motive of the heart and it can't be ascertained by man. What APPEARS to be righteous motive, in the HEART of man that He sees, it may be something for self-gain, like serving Him because it looks good, gets them respect in the community, pays well, ect.

We just never know. Our hearts are like onions with many layers of self that have to be peeled away to reveal Christ and learn to walk in a pure motive, out of a cleansed conscience. Sometimes, the layers are quite surprising even to the one having them exposed by the HG.

And there is also the growth factor. It's all men in their season, and you can't go from kindergarten to college. He also knows who is ready and willing to receive, and who has grown comfortable in their "oasis" and will refuse to follow the cloud and perish. So He leaves them where they are and works on them more, rather than expose them to something they will reject and THEN be accountable for. My  :2c: Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Aleax

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2010, 03:28:26 PM »
God is no respector of persons so since most churches belive in hell, it would not be great for the kingdom of God if only non Et belivers received his protection and miracles.

Indeed, who of us has a 100% perfect theology after all? UR'ers, too, disagree with each other on certain things. For example some believe there will be a rapture, others believe the church will go to the tribulation, some believe the tribulation took place already in 70 A.D.
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Offline lomarah

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2010, 03:35:28 PM »
God is no respector of persons so since most churches belive in hell, it would not be great for the kingdom of God if only non Et belivers received his protection and miracles.

Indeed, who of us has a 100% perfect theology after all? UR'ers, too, disagree with each other on certain things. For example some believe there will be a rapture, others believe the church will go to the tribulation, some believe the tribulation took place already in 70 A.D.

Yes, I suppose this is true, most people do not have everything down, we see through a glass darkly. Thanks everyone for your replies.  :cloud9:
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Offline Nathan

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2010, 06:00:30 PM »
Did you guys know that this same thing happened to Elijah?  He had literal angels revive him, feed him, and encourage him only to lead him in the wrong direction.  After that huge display of God's power burning up his bull, not to mention the water that saturated it, immediately after which Elijah ordered the deaths of all the false prophets of Jezebel to which she responded by putting a death warrant out on his life.  So he ran.

If you check it on a map, you'll find that he ran all the way to the boarder of Israel where he gave it all up and waited for death to come.  The angel showed up, woke him up, fed him and woke him up again, fed him again and then lead him 40 days across the boarder into the wilderness to  where it's beleived to be the same place that God revealed to Moses his hinder parts . . .

The reason why I say he was lead in the wrong direction is because after the fire, whirlwind and earthquake (not sure of the actual order of that) the first thing God told him was . . . .to return to where he just came from.  Angels led him all that way only for him to have to turn around and go back.

Offline chuckt

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2010, 09:21:03 PM »
I believe God is faithful to his name.

yes Eze20 speaks of this very thing.

peace
chuckt
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Offline eaglesway

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2010, 10:17:35 PM »
Doing miracles/healing etc is not always evidence of God's approval, or even basic maturity.


"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'
(Mat 7:21-23)

Stewardship is a little understood facet of the kingdom of God in my opinion. There are things we can do in Jesus name because of faith- yet walking in great mixture/chaos/carnality.

The Corinthians came behind in no gift according to Paul, yet they were carnal, babes in Christ.

Peter did miracles and I assume Judas did as well, because of the authority Jesus gave them via a rhema command. Yet Jesus said to Peter....Get behind me Satan, and we all kno of Judas' infamy.

Also, I believe as Aleax said, "Who has perfect theology?" God looks n the heart. I did not notice any greater dimension of God's love towards me after I became convinced of UR. He always loved me, and I saw healings and deliverance in my service to the Lord long before- even at a time when I was very legalistic and short sighted in my understanding of the gospel.

So, only Jesus can "try the reins and the hearts". He knows-not I. But I do know that the "Lord worked with them, confirming the Word with signs and wonders". Even so, the proclamation of the glorious gospel of God is more important than miracles. Even as the disciples did miracles in Jesus name, He rebuked them, saying,"Don't you kno what spirit you are of?" We have been called into the ministry of reconciliation, and entrusted with the Word of reconciliation in accordance the high call of God in Christ, and His kind intention which He purposed in Himself, who causes all things to work in accord with the counsel of His will.


If there arises among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and gives you a sign or a wonder, And the sign or the wonder comes to pass, and then he says unto you, Let us follow other gods, which you have not known, and let us serve them; You shall not follow the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God is testing you, to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
(Deu 13:1-3)
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Offline WhiteWings

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2010, 11:05:28 PM »
I also just read a similar story about a preacher preaching the "good news" in a prison with mentally insane inmates and his eyes were opened and he saw a bunch of huge angels protecting him. I just don't understand if their "good news" is not exactly the true good news, why does God protect them and their message?
Doesn't it prove that God has a plan? If He hated that preacher He would have withdrawn the guardian angels. Trick of satan? Lies mixed with truth often are more effective as just lies.

Quote
(Mind you I don't know exactly what was said by these preachers, if they mentioned anything about eternal hell or whatnot, but I at least know the students were ET believers.)
Everyone believing in Jesus is saved. Also according to ET. Because they didn't need to be saved with a hell sermon the preacher maybe just used love verses.

Not enough info I think. Maybe even that is a trick of satan. With minimal/incomplete info there is confusion. Just as satan likes it.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline thinktank

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2010, 11:38:57 PM »
Also I notice that those in the non Et crowd are much more likely to bring their own beliefs with them . e.g they do not belive in Gods miracles. I often see people on youtube who are not part of the orthodox church who disagree with miracles and so if there are many people like this together in a org that does not belive in ET, then the fact that they do not belive in miracles makes it difficult for God to work miracles in that choked atmosphere.
The world is filled with lies for all kind of reasons. Usually power and/or financial gain. I think that in such a world being sceptical is good. It might evenmake it easier for God to do miracles because if you believe about anything then every true miracle od offset with 100 fake ones. True or false is in the eye of the beholder.
It's not that hard to post a vision you never had. Would it be believed? Depends on what forum I post. If it fits their doctrine it's true if not it's a vision of satan.
I know absolutely nothing about lomarah's friends. How can I know it was real or fake? By just verifiying it with the Bible. Even that won't work because everyone with decent Bible knowledge can write such a thing.

I understand, but you must have faith. If one puts Jesus before miracles then one should be safe, so Jesus first then miracles. But if one puts miracles before Jesus then they are in danger, for in todays times there are many false miracle workers and the antichrist will use false miracles, so if one seeks after the miracles before Jesus, they will be deceived easilly.


Offline Lefein

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2010, 11:50:28 PM »
It is Christ who does the calling, the preacher (ET or not) is just a relay tower through which the call is sent - and the Christian to be is made aware of the call that he then receives.

The Christian who gives his life to Christ doesn't look at the pastor when he says: Jesus!  Rescue me!  He looks at Jesus in his heart, or looks at Jesus through the message, given by the messenger.

The Angels protect the messenger, like soldiers protecting a communication's tower.  If the tower falls, is the message not hindered?  If it is hindered - reception of that message is hindered.

A faulty communication's tower, with a slightly garbled message is better than no tower at all when you are trying to send out a simple S.O.S.

"Submit. Obtain. Salvation."

Of course, like all communication's equipment, its much, much better with a clearer, more accurate message.  :thumbsup:  It is through the better equipment that you get to hear even better, and even more accurate, and clearer messages like Universal Reconciliation.

CLV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred, it rouses up quarrels, Yet love covers over all transgressions.
KJV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.

Offline eaglesway

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2010, 12:14:06 AM »
Amen Lefein
   I am edified! :thumbsup:
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Offline thinktank

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2010, 02:13:12 AM »
Amen Lefein
   I am edified! :thumbsup:

Huh! edified? I thought you meant the same as lefein, that even an ET preacher can do miracles, that it may colden the heart, but faith and love in Christ still exists.


Also, I believe as Aleax said, "Who has perfect theology?" God looks n the heart. I did not notice any greater dimension of God's love towards me after I became convinced of UR. He always loved me, and I saw healings and deliverance in my service to the Lord long before- even at a time when I was very legalistic and short sighted in my understanding of the gospel.
eagle


Offline eaglesway

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Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #24 on: October 07, 2010, 03:13:13 AM »
Not sure I get your point Thinktank  :dontknow:

My point was that even when my understanding was unfruitful, the Lord still moved upon and through my imperfect heart and soul, loving me- and I loving Him. We cannot always discern what is in the deepest place of someones heart- but God sees it clearly :o) Peace, John

The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.com