Author Topic: ET believers and miracles  (Read 16467 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline eaglesway

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 4465
  • Gender: Male
  • Grace & Peace be multiplied unto you, in Jesus
    • Hell is a Myth.com
Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #325 on: October 27, 2010, 05:48:55 AM »
God have mercy on anyone stuck on THAT island.
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Offline jabcat

  • Admin
  • *
  • Posts: 9096
  • SINNER SAVED BY GRACE
Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #326 on: October 27, 2010, 06:19:29 AM »
This thread's becoming a little too personal, a little too insulting and presumptive, including with unnecessary inuendo, IMO.  Some of the statements being made are uncomfortably close to personal attacks due to the apparent assigning of motive and conjecture to others' statements.  I've received a "red flag" message this evening, and I just noticed the past couple of posts.

Why don't we take a step back and examine how we may be coming across, who we may insulting, and possibly injuring in the process.  This thread has been allowed to continue in this vein, probably too long already.  I'm not seeing a lot of tie-in to UR, which is what Gary's wishes are.  If we stay on the high road, factual, not becoming too personal or stirring strife, etc., we can often continue "off-course" a bit with no harm/no foul.  However, my guess is he would probably not appreciate the outright high degree of politicization of this discussion, especially if it is strifeful.

Is there something productive to be done here, or are we at a point of "I'll win my case at whatever cost"?  If the former exists, let's continue.  If this is just a struggle of wills at this point, I'd suggest we either move this back to the OP (gee, I don't even remember what it was at this point) or move onto another discussion.

Thanks, James.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2010, 06:27:49 AM by jabcat »

Offline micah7:9

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 5997
  • Gender: Male
  • Mic 7:8 Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine ene
Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #327 on: October 27, 2010, 06:26:08 AM »
Thank you James. Peace and Love Through Jesus THE  :icon_king:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline jabcat

  • Admin
  • *
  • Posts: 9096
  • SINNER SAVED BY GRACE
Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #328 on: October 27, 2010, 06:46:06 AM »
Blessings, micah.  Stir somethin' good up tonight!!!!!   :boydance:

(nothing yet from The Christian Bible folks :(

Offline jabcat

  • Admin
  • *
  • Posts: 9096
  • SINNER SAVED BY GRACE
Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #329 on: October 27, 2010, 06:46:34 AM »
I have been wondering about something lately. Namely why do ET believers/preachers get miracles if what they are teaching is not completely true? I'm not talking about healings and such, but things like angelic protection when preaching their message. For example, I went to a Bible University and a few of our students went on a missions trip to Haiti where they preached the "good news". All of a sudden their eyes were opened and they saw some huge angels and a bunch of little demons and basically they were seeing a spiritual battle going on while a witch doctor gave his life to Christ.

I also just read a similar story about a preacher preaching the "good news" in a prison with mentally insane inmates and his eyes were opened and he saw a bunch of huge angels protecting him. I just don't understand if their "good news" is not exactly the true good news, why does God protect them and their message? (Mind you I don't know exactly what was said by these preachers, if they mentioned anything about eternal hell or whatnot, but I at least know the students were ET believers.)

Bump

Offline micah7:9

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 5997
  • Gender: Male
  • Mic 7:8 Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine ene
Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #330 on: October 27, 2010, 07:19:08 AM »
Rom 11:29  For, not to be regretted, are the gifts and the calling of God:ó
Luk 9:50  And Jesus said unto himóDo not forbid; for, whosoever is not against you, is, for you.
Mar 9:40  For, whosoever is not, against, us, is, for, us;
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline firstborn888

  • Bronze
  • *
  • Posts: 1080
  • Gender: Male
  • Not all those who wander are lost
Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #331 on: October 27, 2010, 07:37:04 AM »
This thread's becoming a little too personal, a little too insulting and presumptive, including with unnecessary inuendo, IMO.  Some of the statements being made are uncomfortably close to personal attacks due to the apparent assigning of motive and conjecture to others' statements.  I've received a "red flag" message this evening, and I just noticed the past couple of posts.

Why don't we take a step back and examine how we may be coming across, who we may insulting, and possibly injuring in the process.  This thread has been allowed to continue in this vein, probably too long already.  I'm not seeing a lot of tie-in to UR, which is what Gary's wishes are.  If we stay on the high road, factual, not becoming too personal or stirring strife, etc., we can often continue "off-course" a bit with no harm/no foul.  However, my guess is he would probably not appreciate the outright high degree of politicization of this discussion, especially if it is strifeful.

Is there something productive to be done here, or are we at a point of "I'll win my case at whatever cost"?  If the former exists, let's continue.  If this is just a struggle of wills at this point, I'd suggest we either move this back to the OP (gee, I don't even remember what it was at this point) or move onto another discussion.

Thanks, James.

Understood James. I didn't take the thread down this road but definitely responded to those who did. It does sadden me a bit when some who espouse UR (seemingly) don't understand the power of God's plan and want to take the path of "the world" (AKA: a tribal "us vs. them" mentality).

Anyway, it's been eye opening.

Just try to picture Jesus freaking out about multiculturalism. Even Paul didn't do that. I hope both "sides" (the radical "anything goes" crowd and the "only Christians" crowd) can get the real message of America:

Let freedom reign and the truth finds itself. 

Selah and goodbye (for now :winkgrin:).  :Sparkletooth:

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11305
Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #332 on: October 27, 2010, 07:49:40 AM »
That's ok, Jab.  I just want to let you know that I have not been feeling strife with anyone given the nature of the discussion,  and compared to these discussions in real life--at least I couldn't hear anyone yelling. :laughing7:

I just wanted to repost this video for Firstborn since he asked me to--

Immigration by the numbers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7WJeqxuOfQ



Regarding the opening post, I think God is very patient with us, the same way we are with our own children, and brings us along a path of spiritual growth as we are able.  These churches which preach what some would call wrong doctrines are still churches of God, and God surely knows how to turn it to good in the lives of their members.  In this age, he is calling out and choosing his own, no matter what the circumstances. So we see many on this board who suffered under said churches, but have still  found the good and righteous God--- because He intended that they would.


1 Corinthians 1:21
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.




Offline jabcat

  • Admin
  • *
  • Posts: 9096
  • SINNER SAVED BY GRACE
Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #333 on: October 27, 2010, 08:04:21 AM »
Thanks for understanding guys.  I kind of expected a beatin'.  :Sparkletooth:

Really, what I asked was a step-back, a re-examination of how we may be coming across - and try to remain factual rather than assign our own perceptions to each other's statements, even though that may not be what that other person is really saying.  Again, if there were more that needed to be said that might actually be productive, edifying, etc. - and especially if it was indeed UR related, then continue.  However, if that were the case, we really probably should split off from this topic that it appears we're getting back on track with.  :thumbsup: 

But if most has already been said that's helpful, that's good too! 

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 13059
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #334 on: October 27, 2010, 09:56:01 AM »
As to the rest - my point is simply that you are trying to unscramble an egg - it won't work. You say my solutions (such as better background checks for immigrants) are not practical and you start talking about how to preserve a Christian state (where none even exists in the first place) so how is that *(removing all that opposes "it") a practical solution? It's not.
Shutting borders is a first step. And a very big step. If I look at the situation here. People enter with no perspective. It gets far out of hand. Then they are allowed to reunite with their family. But family has family too. Then they are allowed to get their partner from their original country. That escalates.
The next thing is enforce laws. Then I mean enforce laws equally for all. That's not being done right now. Just because everything is called discrimination. That increases pressure even more. Those countries seem to have extreme high rates of twins and triplets. And of course 'we'have to pay child support for childeren that are supposed to live in far away countries.
But if laws would be enforced (equally) thier paradise ends. That will slow down immigration considerbly. I think it will even cause de-immigration.
 
 
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline firstborn888

  • Bronze
  • *
  • Posts: 1080
  • Gender: Male
  • Not all those who wander are lost
Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #335 on: October 27, 2010, 11:06:37 AM »
That's ok, Jab.  I just want to let you know that I have not been feeling strife with anyone given the nature of the discussion,  and compared to these discussions in real life--at least I couldn't hear anyone yelling. :laughing7:

I just wanted to repost this video for Firstborn since he asked me to--

Immigration by the numbers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7WJeqxuOfQ

Thank you.  :icon_flower:

Offline firstborn888

  • Bronze
  • *
  • Posts: 1080
  • Gender: Male
  • Not all those who wander are lost
Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #336 on: October 27, 2010, 01:51:20 PM »
That's ok, Jab.  I just want to let you know that I have not been feeling strife with anyone given the nature of the discussion,  and compared to these discussions in real life--at least I couldn't hear anyone yelling. :laughing7:

I just wanted to repost this video for Firstborn since he asked me to--

Immigration by the numbers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7WJeqxuOfQ

I understand the problems laid out. And I understand your pessimism about holding the status-quo standard of living.

My big big problem is when people bring Jesus and race into the equation when this is simply just a human issue.

God did not empower Christian Europeans to come and cruelly wipe out millions of native Americans (including death marches, forced relocation to inhospitable lands, destruction of the native food supply etc). American Indians were even used for target practice! Now - I know many don't like to hear this but what better way to start than on a foundation of truth, right?

Think any blacks signed up for the slave ships? As I said in my first or second post in this genre of the thread - some serious poetic justice is going on here. I know those on top feel they are entitled to it and are greatly afraid of losing their comfort and freedom. Am I afraid? Yes. But I know enough NOT to claim that I have a divine right to live in peace and prosperity created by cruel plunder with no repercussions whatsoever. Even though I do think the mass immigration is a bad policy. 

As a third grader I figured out that I was destined to become a minority in my own town (my Hispanic friends generally had 7-10 brothers and sisters and my Anglo friends 1-4). I didn't know the term "exponential growth"  but I saw the concept at an early age.

45 years later, it is as I foretold.

So, my suggestion for a follower of Christ is to state the case for immigration reform and leave the "superiority of European Christians over all others" part out. Because by dividing by race and religion it becomes the "same 'ol same 'ol" world. Humans acting like animals toward one another.

Some will do what we must to try and keep America as it is - but if we succeed, please don't imagine we will be told in heaven: "Well done! You kept your standard of living high and separated yourselves well from the nonbelievers and crushed their onslaught of your sacred land".

That's just delusional.

Anyway, this is a bit off topic from the OP and I think I have said all I wish on the subject for now. Thanks for the discussion. As always, I learned a lot about myself and others.  :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower:
« Last Edit: October 27, 2010, 01:57:31 PM by firstborn888 »

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11305
Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #337 on: October 27, 2010, 03:35:48 PM »
It is just a matter of policy decision--who and how many immigrants we allow in this country.

It is just a matter of policy decision--who and how many illegals we deport.

Right now--I guarantee you--that decision is not being made by the american people.

Most do not even understand what is going on, and those who do are very angry [ciite: arizona].

People need to be made aware of the problem and see how easy it is to handle it--[new law in Congress, enforce already existing laws for illegals]--and handle it.

No need for anything other than that.  No need to justify it, or defend it, or anything else.  Just do it.

But if they are not aware of the problem, that video shows what will happen given our current policy.

Offline Universalist Catholic

  • 300
  • *
  • Posts: 405
Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #338 on: November 26, 2010, 07:34:09 AM »
This reminds me of Psalm 91, and Matthew 4.  With Psalm 91, it looks as if the true believers who take refuge in God will not be harmed in anyway.  No cuts, bruises, illnesses, misfortune, ect.  However in Matthew 4, Satan tempts Jesus with this same scripture to try and talk him out of this unpleasant experience.  However it doesnt seem like much has changed.  You hear quite a bit of this in the Evangelical denominations about being born again, and healed from Alcoholism, cancer, blindness, deafness, as a sign that God has shown you some type of reward for surrendering to Jesus.  There is also that Joel Osteen prosperity gospel of "Follow the Lord and you shall recieve great wealth."  Then there are some Marian movements in the Catholic Church, for example Medjudgorge.  Unfortunately I was sucked into it, and put me through hell.  With Medjudgorge, its the same thing.  Magical healing cloths that can cure you of any disease, constant repititions of the Rosary, and you can achieve any desire, and that fasting on carbs on Wednesday and Friday while attending Thursday and Saturday morning mass can also get you special benefits.  Guess what.  These experiences are far and few.  Most people get nothing out of these so called spiritual interventions.  Most people still go day to day with illnesses, troubles, and the same problems as if they never attended.  So, does Psalm 91 really guarantee no harm to true believers?  It seem more like the Psalm is saying these harms are only miniscule, and cannot permanently harm us.  In fact, the hymn "On Eagles Wings", perfectly alludes to this.  The hymn is based on Psalm 91, and Isaiah 40:31, and is real popular with funerals.  The point is that not even death is not the end.  Now I dont want to demonize these experiences.  Miracles have happened to all people regaurdless of their religion.  As to why, that is not certain at this time.  However the religious systems say that it was for having the most devotions, like meditating on the Torah, fasting for so many days, praying facing Mecca 5 times a day on time, taking the sacraments, praying the sinners prayer, attending weekly church services, attending synagogue or mosque, saying the most mantras, meditating on the great OM, or practicing yoga.  However the lie is that these miracles didnt occur because of choosing the right religion, or performing the right rituals, or being the most righteous.  They occur because of some higher purpose.  Then those who dont recieve these special gifts are told that they just were rejected, because they werent devout enough, chose the wrong religion, or still lived in too much sin, or even worse were just not favored by God.  So, the main answer is not "sorry rejected", but something like "Not yet, be patient", or "Its not in your best interests"

Offline Cardinal

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 8432
  • Gender: Female
Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #339 on: November 26, 2010, 10:20:12 AM »
 :cloud9: Again it all comes down to relationship. If someone has a relationship experience with Him, where you really meet Him, you are changed, and healing is a part of that, either sooner or later, because no man can be in His presence and not be changed. We are told to prosper and be in health, even as our soul prospers. I've been on both sides of this, the healed and the not healed. My  :2c: Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline eaglesway

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 4465
  • Gender: Male
  • Grace & Peace be multiplied unto you, in Jesus
    • Hell is a Myth.com
Re: ET believers and miracles
« Reply #340 on: December 28, 2010, 06:31:06 AM »
If we suffer with Him we will also reign with Him....

If anyone will live godly in Christ Jesus they will suffer persecution....

The rain falls on the just and the unjust....

The Lord knows what is going on- why when we are troubled and deliverance does not seem to manifest in a timely manner- but kno one should judge anyone.... we just do not have the perspective to do that. We intercede and press into the grace of God.

I believe in healing and deliverance, and being proactive about it, but also believe that we abide in Him and trust Him regardless of "results". Methodology is short sighted. Relationship is what its all about.

In whatever state we find ourselves we give thanks. Our destiny is secure..... and we will understand it better by and by.

Abide in Me. I am the Vine, you are the branches.
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com