Author Topic: Blinded for Salvation (Each in their own order)  (Read 1695 times)

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Offline WhiteWings

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Blinded for Salvation (Each in their own order)
« on: September 23, 2012, 01:42:25 PM »
(1Cor 15:22) For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
(1Cor 15:23) But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

(John 6:44) No man can come to me, except the Father which has sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

(Prov 20:12) The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the LORD has made even both of them
(Deut 29:4) Yet the LORD has not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, to this day.

(John 12:39) Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
(John 12:40) He has blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

(Luke 24:15) And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.
(Luke 24:16) But their eyes were held that they should not know him.

(Luke 24:45) Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

« Last Edit: September 23, 2012, 10:00:32 PM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline sheila

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Re: Each in their own order
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2012, 04:31:10 PM »
  and that,WW, is speaking of being born of the will of God..and not  man...it is a work of HIS HANDS,HIS WILL.

Offline Lazarus Short

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Re: Each in their own order
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2012, 05:05:19 PM »
"Each in his own order" is fairly easy to understand.  Not so with "seeing, they see not" and "hearing, they hear not."  On the face of it, it's an odd statement, because everybody with good eyes and ears can see and hear.  No, it's a matter of perception, not sensation, understanding, not awareness.  How many times do we see/hear something, and we just don't get it?  Often!  :sigh: In my own life, I have noted that some people have the ability to see and understand, and some don't.  :footmouth: I often use the example of the picture you can't (for whatever reason) figure out - what is it?  :Chinscratch: Then, the light of understanding comes on, you see it for what it is, and after that moment, you can NEVER go back to that state of being vexed by what the picture might be. :laughing7: 

Maybe it's like that old Yoruba proverb that is a favorite of mine:  What an elder can see sitting down, a youth can't see standing up. :doh:
Socrates taught Plato.  Plato taught Aristotle.  Aristotle tutored the son of Philip of Macedon.  This boy grew up to become Alexander the Great, largely by slaughtering a lot of people.  That's philosophy.

Jesus spoke the Truth.  He blessed the poor.  He healed the sick.  He even raised the dead.  He died on a cross for us, lived again, and came back long enough to tell us to love one another.  That's religion.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Each in their own order
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2012, 05:10:34 PM »
  and that,WW, is speaking of being born of the will of God..and not  man...it is a work of HIS HANDS,HIS WILL.
The thread title isn't as good as it should be. Just couldn't think of something short when posting.

"Blinded for salvation" ?   :banana:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Each in their own order
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2012, 05:14:26 PM »
"Each in his own order" is fairly easy to understand.  Not so with "seeing, they see not" and "hearing, they hear not."
But it's extremly closely related.
Salvation by Jesus. But if someone doesn't 'see' Jesus there is no salvation. But only God determins when someone sees.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline sheila

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Re: Each in their own order
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2012, 05:25:33 PM »
...it has to do with the Sovereignty and will of God over the entire creation....He set's it in order..out of the choas..stone by stone raised up......

  He builds and assembles each living stone  and places it as He pleases...for that reason it does not depend on the one wishing..but on God who does the choosing

   if you are building something..and choose certain foundation stones to place there....it does NOT mean the other stones for other places in the house

  are not valuable and necessary to you..just because you don't have your hands on them or are not working with them at that time.........

   so many times we hear 'wait on the Lord"

   this is what 'each in His own order means"

Offline ded2daworld

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Re: Each in their own order
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2012, 06:41:45 PM »
I fully agree with Lazarus. I've been trying and trying to figure out what the photo or avatar picutre is that is with his name.
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Each in their own order
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2012, 07:11:26 PM »
I fully agree with Lazarus. I've been trying and trying to figure out what the photo or avatar picutre is that is with his name.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosh_Naranek
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline shawn

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Re: Each in their own order
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2012, 08:45:54 PM »
This is how I understand such things today.  I stress today because God continues to grow me.  But, I agree there is an elect.  I believe God reveals to some, and hides from others.  He grows some in the Spirit, and other He allows to wallow in their own depravity and darkness.  None of us have earned revelation or relationship, and it's not Gods obligation to give such.  Some now, others later.  People move within Gods sovereignty.  He determines the bounds, limits, barriers and each person moves within those parameters.  Those of us who have had our eyes opened in this life, move and grow towards spiritual maturity.  The others are "vessels Of wrath fitted for destruction.".  We each serve our own purpose in the education of the spirits of man.  We each have our role in the threshing of the elect.

Offline Lazarus Short

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Re: Each in their own order
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2012, 09:31:31 PM »
I fully agree with Lazarus. I've been trying and trying to figure out what the photo or avatar picutre is that is with his name.



ZING!
Socrates taught Plato.  Plato taught Aristotle.  Aristotle tutored the son of Philip of Macedon.  This boy grew up to become Alexander the Great, largely by slaughtering a lot of people.  That's philosophy.

Jesus spoke the Truth.  He blessed the poor.  He healed the sick.  He even raised the dead.  He died on a cross for us, lived again, and came back long enough to tell us to love one another.  That's religion.

Offline Lazarus Short

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Re: Each in their own order
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2012, 09:45:40 PM »
This is how I understand such things today.  I stress today because God continues to grow me.  But, I agree there is an elect.  I believe God reveals to some, and hides from others.  He grows some in the Spirit, and other He allows to wallow in their own depravity and darkness.  None of us have earned revelation or relationship, and it's not Gods obligation to give such.  Some now, others later.  People move within Gods sovereignty.  He determines the bounds, limits, barriers and each person moves within those parameters.  Those of us who have had our eyes opened in this life, move and grow towards spiritual maturity.  The others are "vessels Of wrath fitted for destruction.".  We each serve our own purpose in the education of the spirits of man.  We each have our role in the threshing of the elect.

Yes!  Yes!  As usual, I don't know the chapter & verse, but I used to sing this in church:  The steps of a man are established by the Lord, and He delights in his way...  I don't recall any distinction on what kind of man/men/women either, so I have to assume the delight is for the righteous and the unrighteous too.  Amazing!  :winkgrin:
Socrates taught Plato.  Plato taught Aristotle.  Aristotle tutored the son of Philip of Macedon.  This boy grew up to become Alexander the Great, largely by slaughtering a lot of people.  That's philosophy.

Jesus spoke the Truth.  He blessed the poor.  He healed the sick.  He even raised the dead.  He died on a cross for us, lived again, and came back long enough to tell us to love one another.  That's religion.

Offline lomarah

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Re: Each in their own order
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2012, 03:17:34 AM »
...it has to do with the Sovereignty and will of God over the entire creation....He set's it in order..out of the choas..stone by stone raised up......

  He builds and assembles each living stone  and places it as He pleases...for that reason it does not depend on the one wishing..but on God who does the choosing

   if you are building something..and choose certain foundation stones to place there....it does NOT mean the other stones for other places in the house

  are not valuable and necessary to you..just because you don't have your hands on them or are not working with them at that time.........

   so many times we hear 'wait on the Lord"

   this is what 'each in His own order means"

I loved that sheila, each stone is so precious and important, AMEN!
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Each in their own order
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2012, 05:23:10 AM »
Yes!  Yes!  As usual, I don't know the chapter & verse, but I used to sing this in church:  The steps of a man are established by the Lord, and He delights in his way...
Proverbs 16:9 In his heart a man plans his course, but the LORD determines his steps.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Lazarus Short

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Re: Each in their own order
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2012, 03:10:09 AM »
Yes!  Yes!  As usual, I don't know the chapter & verse, but I used to sing this in church:  The steps of a man are established by the Lord, and He delights in his way...
Proverbs 16:9 In his heart a man plans his course, but the LORD determines his steps.

There it is, the whole free will vs predestination issue in a single verse.  Done, done and done.
Socrates taught Plato.  Plato taught Aristotle.  Aristotle tutored the son of Philip of Macedon.  This boy grew up to become Alexander the Great, largely by slaughtering a lot of people.  That's philosophy.

Jesus spoke the Truth.  He blessed the poor.  He healed the sick.  He even raised the dead.  He died on a cross for us, lived again, and came back long enough to tell us to love one another.  That's religion.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Blinded for Salvation (Each in their own order)
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2012, 07:02:12 AM »
Free will, yes.
Predestination, I don't think so because it doesn't show where the guided steps lead to.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline ded2daworld

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Re: Blinded for Salvation (Each in their own order)
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2012, 07:21:42 PM »
IMO we have free will until God chooses us(opens our eyes) as he predestined he would.
Christ was slain before the foundation of the world.
Is there any way that someone that has their eyes opened (In Paul's case he was blinded. just the opposite)and still exercise free will to reject God?
We know that to God's Glory everyone will willingly come and vow allegiance, praise and love to him, so it's free will that God has influenced. Just like everyone I've talked to that "God Saved" admits that there was probably no other set of circumstances that would have brought them to the Lord.
So it's kinda free will and it's kinda not. Since God will make himself known and irresistible, how can free will man resist.
God's will is certainly stronger than man's so you freely choose what God made "an offer you couldn't refuse"
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Each in their own order
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2012, 09:00:24 PM »
"Each in his own order" is fairly easy to understand.  Not so with "seeing, they see not" and "hearing, they hear not."
But it's extremly closely related.
Salvation by Jesus. But if someone doesn't 'see' Jesus there is no salvation. But only God determins when someone sees.

Seeing they see not:

To buy the field but never dig for the treasure

Hearing they hear not:

To tap your toe to the music but never listen to the lyrics
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Blinded for Salvation (Each in their own order)
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2012, 09:02:20 PM »
Seeing they see not:

To have the law but never understand its intent

Hearing they hear not:

To have the new covenant but try to make law of it
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Offline Molly

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Re: Blinded for Salvation (Each in their own order)
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2012, 11:42:41 PM »
The way I see it:

In this age, God is raising up a nation of priests, those who will be priests in the next age and ages to come, priests after the order of Melchizedek, based not on a bloodline, nor the will of man, but based on an indestructible life.

This is why he tells us, .he who believes has everlasting life.

Now we see that this priesthood has been chosen in Christ before the commencement of the ages, to be revealed during the lifetime of each one chosen.

Chosen, kept secret [mystery], hidden in Christ until the appointed time when it will be manifested.  Some of this group will be blinded [the Jews] until the rest [Gentiles] are brought in.

So we see:

44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.  Mat 13

We are that treasure hidden in the field of the world.  The work on the cross was done for us, and it was so huge that the whole world is saved in the process.  Calvin got it half right.  He forgot that, in paying the price for us, God bought the whole field.

God loves the whole world,

But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that you should show forth the praises of him who has called you out of darkness into his marvelous light;

--1 Peter 2:9



"a chosen" generation

G1588
εκλεκτός
eklektos
ek-lek-tos'
From G1586; select; by implication favorite: - chosen, elect.

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Blinded for Salvation (Each in their own order)
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2012, 01:41:27 AM »
Most excellent and glorious :o)
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com