Author Topic: Doesn't God leave breadcrumbs... a little trail... for all of His children?  (Read 1290 times)

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Offline sparrow

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I remember an old Native American friend of mine teaching me about White Buffalo Calf Woman and how there were many who do not make the connection to Christ... They don't see how she points to Christ.

Y'know many different beliefs have truth scattered about within. but do most POINT to Christ? I believe that maybe it's a POSSIBILITY that they do... it's just they haven't made the "connection". (don't freak out on me, now thinking that I'm saying that there are other paths OTHER than Christ. I am NOT saying that. Christ is the ONLY true path. I'm talking about the ability to GET to Christ. Christ can overturn any stumbling block, remember. Christ can work with ANYTHING. The parts of religions that are TRUE and those parts that are LOVE, GOD is there! God is TRUTH AND LOVE. God works with THOSE parts. Now do you see what I am saying?)

Will MOST people recognize Christ? There are MANY, MANY in the CHRISTIAN religions who do NOT recognize Christ! Think about it guys... Back in the day, Christ came riding up on a Donkey, humble... the people were expecting a ROYAL KING!! They, who proclaimed to know the MOST, knew the least. They didn't RECOGNIZE Christ.
It's the same today.

Churches and missionaries all over this world proclaiming CHRIST! But yet.... they inflict upon Him, the WORST possible "news" that he will roast alive all of his enemies for all eternity.  :sigh: Will they "recognize" Christ?
When he ultimately saves ALL? They will not. (eventually they will... of course.) but they are similar to the phariseeds of old, in that they claim to know the MOST, but in reality.... know very little.

Find the beauty and truth in other beliefs.... don't look at them and scowl and say "LIES ALL LIES!! ALL LIES!!" No, it's not ALL lies. There IS beauty. There IS truth. There IS love. Instead, look for the nuggets of truth, the nuggets of beauty, the breadcrumbs that may possibly point the way to Christ! Just like with Christianity...  It's amazing actually, when you think about it. The Religion that HAS Christ, doesn't even SEE Christ!!! Instead they turn Him into a monster!  God loves all of His children. And He does speak to them in different ways. His children don't always get the message though, and man-made religions spring up. The message gets muddied.

But one day... ALL will recognize Christ.
They really will.

CHRIST is the ONLY "TRUE" "religion".
I know there will be some who shout and scream at me "What are you doing? You are promoting other religions! You are a heathen!"  :Sparkletooth: Of course I am not doing that. Read back over my words. See the message.
We see through the glass dimly now... but eventually ALL shall know the truth.
All shall know CHRIST!
Where there is LOVE, there is GOD.
GOD IS LOVE.


Peace.

This is what got me started thinking about this, I was going back through the prayer threds, and found this that Molly had posted about White Buffalo Calf Woman and it brought back some wonderful memories for me. It was an elderly Native American man that God put on my path at just the right moment... a man who had grew up Catholic, had a terrible tragedy in His family, then went back to his Native ways and then ultimately discovered Christ. Very interesting story... and God used him to help me along my path. In his quiet ways of little words, he helped me.


wow..Look what I just googled:


The Lakota Myth of the White Buffalo Woman

Being part Native American myself, I treasure the myths and legends of all Native American tribes. One that I find particularly interesting and heart warming comes from the Lakota tribe. It is the myth of the White Buffalo Woman. The Sioux also embraces a similar myth.

The Lakota believe that the White Buffalo Woman came in answer to their fervent prayers. It was a time of famine and the tribe was suffering greatly. Many were on the verge of starvation and all were praying for salvation and hope.

White Buffalo Woman showed herself to them some 2,000 years ago; not only as a symbol of hope but also to teach the Lakota people how to live. She first made herself known to two warriors who were hunting for food in the Black Hills of South Dakota.

As the warriors were hunting, they watched as an unusual storm rolled in. They were caught off guard by the beauty and brightness of the enormous white clouds, which did not resemble anything they had ever seen in a storm before.

As they watched, one huge cloud came close to the earth and formed into what appeared to be the image of a white buffalo calf. As they stared in awe, a beautiful Indian maiden dressed in white buckskin upon which was embroidered many sacred symbols, stepped out of the cloud. They were struck by her beauty and the light that beamed radiantly from her face.

One of the warriors was pure of heart, brave, and kind hearted, but the other held evil thoughts, was cowardly, and selfish. As the White Buffalo Woman asked the warriors to step forward, the one warrior pushed the other aside and attempted to embrace the holy woman. As he did so, a black cloud formed directly over him and a lightning bolt sprang from the cloud hitting and killing him instantly.

The girl looked at the second warrior, who merely knelt at her feet and began chanting a prayer. She was touched by his actions and bade the warrior to arise. She told him to go back to his people to warn them that in four days she would return to give them a very special gift - - a sacred bundle.

The warrior did exactly as he was told. Some of his people believed his words, while others laughed at him. But, once four days had past a giant white cloud rolled in and the young maiden, once again, stepped out of the sky.

In her arms she carried a sacred bundle, which she shared with the Lakota people. It included the chunurpa, or sacred pipe and instructions for seven sacred ceremonies, which included the following ceremonies:

purification,
naming,
healing,
adoption,
marriage,
vision quest and
sun dance.


The pipe was made of red stone to represent the flesh and blood of the red man; those who had already passed on and those who would continue to die at the hands of the white man.

A buffalo and seven circles of varying sizes were carved into the pipe's bowl. The buffalo represented the four ages of man because it stood on all fours. The circles represented the seven ceremonies that White Buffalo Woman would teach them.

The stem of the pipe was made of wood to represent everything that grows on earth. From it hung twelve hanging eagle feathers to represent the Great Spirit's sacred messages to his people.

White Buffalo Woman explained that all of these things - - the earth, wood, the buffalo, and the birds - - were precious gifts from Mother Earth. She told the Lakota that as long as they remained one with the earth, took care of and protected it, like the pipe, that their people would increase in number and prosper.

She further explained that the pipe should be instrumental in all Lakota ritual to symbolize the exchange between humanity and the spirit world. When smoked, it must be offered to all four directions - - east, west, north, and south - - to encompass all that is and all that will be.

White Buffalo Woman stayed with the people to teach them the ceremonial songs and the important traditions that they were to follow. Once finished, she returned the way she came, stepping back into the clouds. But as she once again transformed back into a white buffalo and left, she told her people that one day she would return for the bundle.

She further prophesized that just before her return, a white buffalo calf would be born and that he was meant to purify the world. She said that he would bring balance and harmony back to the world and ensure a time of great spirituality.

Although the Lakota, like all Native American tribes, have suffered greatly at the hands of the white man, they have never lost their faith and belief that someday the earth and mankind would once again become one. And when they do, many believe that the one prophesied by White Buffalo Woman will arrive to bless the land and all that live in it.


http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/446430/the_lakota_myth_of_the_white_buffalo.html



Edited: I misspelled "pharisees" I wrote "phariseeds!" lol. I am leaving the way it is... :grin:

« Last Edit: February 17, 2009, 05:34:02 PM by sparrow »
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Zeek

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"The Religion that HAS Christ, doesn't even SEE Christ!!! "


is this really true?? can you absolutely know that this is true?? (rhetorical)


ever read any Phillip Yancey, Brennan Manning?  Larry Crabb? 


 

Offline sparrow

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"The Religion that HAS Christ, doesn't even SEE Christ!!! "


is this really true?? can you absolutely know that this is true?? (rhetorical)


ever read any Phillip Yancey, Brennan Manning?  Larry Crabb? 


 


No, I've never heard of those people. Do tell!

and yeah, I think it's true... there are many in Christianity who paint a false picture of God.
They claim He is a hypocrite, telling mankind to love his enemies, while God himself tortures HIS enemies for all eternity. That's a false picture of God, so I believe they don't see the TRUE picture, they don't SEE Him.

Or is that not the part of my post you were referring to?
lol..I want to be sure I know what you're talking about.
I hate going off on tangents.
then discover... oh. That's not what he was even referring to!  :laughing7:

"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline CHB

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Hi Sparrow,

I agree with you. I see God in all things. I have said many times "everyone has some of the truth, but no one has all of the truth". That includes those who believe in the salvation of all. Some have been given a little more of the truth than others but even they don't know it all.

There is a reason for this that God only knows. My belief is, that God Himself will have to teach us ALL at some point in time. If even one of us knew everything, don't you think that person would be so puffed up with pride their head would almost explode? I think Paul knew more than any one else in his day and God gave him a thorn in the side to keep him humble.

Just some thoughts.

CHB

Offline sparrow

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Hi Sparrow,

I agree with you. I see God in all things. I have said many times "everyone has some of the truth, but no one has all of the truth". That includes those who believe in the salvation of all. Some have been given a little more of the truth than others but even they don't know it all.

There is a reason for this that God only knows. My belief is, that God Himself will have to teach us ALL at some point in time. If even one of us knew everything, don't you think that person would be so puffed up with pride their head would almost explode? I think Paul knew more than any one else in his day and God gave him a thorn in the side to keep him humble.

Just some thoughts.

CHB

Oh absolutely!! I'm not saying that those who believe in the salvation of all know everything!
I hope you see that I never even came close to implying that...  :laughing7:

I just wanted to point out some things about other religions that other people seem to want to look down, or ignore, etc.  There is truth in the most unlikely of places. And beauty and love.

God definitley has a plan. for ALL of His children. I think that is what I wanted to point out...
That He speaks to people in different ways. That's all.

What you wrote, I could have written word for word, myself. We are definitely in agreement.  :HeartThrob:

"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline Cardinal

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 :cloud9: I agree God speaks to people where they are at, and He can and does use all things. Incidentally, one of the most astounding spiritual things of my life, happened with some Native Americans the Lord sent me to. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline sparrow

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:cloud9: I agree God speaks to people where they are at, and He can and does use all things. Incidentally, one of the most astounding spiritual things of my life, happened with some Native Americans the Lord sent me to. Blessings....

  :HeartThrob: :cloud9: :HeartThrob:
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline CHB

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Quote from: sparrow
Oh absolutely!! I'm not saying that those who believe in the salvation of all know everything!
I hope you see that I never even came close to implying that...

Sparrow,

No!!! I never thought that. I knew what you were saying, and I completely agree. I just wanted to point out the fact that NO ONE, including us has all the truth. I didn't mean to imply that you were implying that we did.  :laughing7:

God bless.

CHB

Zeek

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Hi Sparrow,

I agree with you. I see God in all things. I have said many times "everyone has some of the truth, but no one has all of the truth". That includes those who believe in the salvation of all. Some have been given a little more of the truth than others but even they don't know it all.

There is a reason for this that God only knows. My belief is, that God Himself will have to teach us ALL at some point in time. If even one of us knew everything, don't you think that person would be so puffed up with pride their head would almost explode? I think Paul knew more than any one else in his day and God gave him a thorn in the side to keep him humble.

Just some thoughts.

CHB

There is truth in the most unlikely of places. And beauty and love.


I agree, even in those who believe in  "christian religion". 

 :grin: :HeartThrob:

Offline Doc

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This reminds me of a story I heard once about a missionary working with the natives in Canada. He wrote "God Is Love" on a rock as he was trying to teach them to read and write English. One of the natives with him said something like, "I sort of knew that all along when I experienced the Great Spirit, but I never really knew that until just now".

God is Truth as well as Love, and He can reveal Himself however He wishes to.
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
"Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me." --C.S. Lewis

God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

Res Veritas Loquitur

Offline jabcat

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Re: Doesn't God leave breadcrumbs... a little trail... for all of His children?
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2009, 01:26:36 AM »
I also believe God can speak through and use whatever/whoever He wishes. He is present in His creation.  However, when Paul visited Ephesus and saw the idol to the "Unknown God", it says in Acts that his spirit was being provoked.   So he preached to them; 

"I observe that you are very religious in all respects. You worship in ignorance...

 ...The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands; ...
 
..."Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent...

...because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead..."

God loves us all and will draw all to Him...IMO, that trail is both His presence now, and also the path that leads us to Him in fullness of salvation...especially those that believe..."by faith, and that not of ourselves, lest any man should boast"...God's blessing, James.


Offline sparrow

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Re: Doesn't God leave breadcrumbs... a little trail... for all of His children?
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2009, 04:09:57 AM »
This reminds me of a story I heard once about a missionary working with the natives in Canada. He wrote "God Is Love" on a rock as he was trying to teach them to read and write English. One of the natives with him said something like, "I sort of knew that all along when I experienced the Great Spirit, but I never really knew that until just now".

God is Truth as well as Love, and He can reveal Himself however He wishes to.

 :dsunny:


CHB... :laughing7:
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline Molly

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Re: Doesn't God leave breadcrumbs... a little trail... for all of His children?
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2009, 07:52:48 PM »
[truth can come in surprising packages, and in unlikely places.]




He turned to me after a while and asked me to repeat for the benefit of my host the lines of the Lord's Prayer in the way I had said them to my patients. I did so, rather self-consciously.
"You are English?" my host asked, speaking in English.

"Yes."

"Please say your Lord's Prayer again." He spoke English better than Russian, fairly correctly and with less accent.

I repeated the 'charm'.

"Very, very in-ter-est-ing," he said, staring at me so intently that I turned away. I caught the Lion's eye as he was settling down to chess with the man with the slanting eyes. He nodded at me with a look that seemed to indicate that I should pay particular attention to anything my host said.

We continued to talk in English, and the conversation, which I have good reason to remember, proceeded somewhat as follows. I reconstruct it as best I can from the notes I made at the time.

"Who taught you to say the Lord's Prayer like that?"

"Nobody. It just came into my head."

"Say the whole prayer through in the same manner."

I did so with one or two hesitations.

"You interrupted it. You said the first lines without stopping, but then you took a breath. That's wrong. This is the way your Lord's Prayer was meant to be said. Listen, and watch."

He folded his hands in his lap, fixed his eyes on me, and began to breathe in slowly and deeply, holding his breath a few moments, sitting motionless. It was very quiet in the room. Lev Lvovitch and the other man were engrossed in their game. They seemed already to belong to another world. I felt I was entering a new one.

A low, rich, musical bass note, about G2 below middle C, began to sound in the room, pure and dry amid the muffling hangings. My host had begun to chant the Lord's Prayer. The words came slowly and softly, the syllables flowing evenly and equidistant on the stream of the single note. The consonants just sufficed to articulate the words. From start to finish there was no stop, no hesitation, no halt for breath, no rise or fall in tone; it was one single sound, integral and self-contained, imparting to the prayer a meaning far deeper than the words themselves. The "amen"—pronounced, of course, "ah-meen"—trailed off into inaudibility in a way that merged the fading musical note with the ensuing silence. Chanted slowly in a single breath it seemed to last a very long time.

I was spellbound, and sat waiting in expectation. The sound of the chanted note had a singularly penetrating effect. I felt as if it had entered right into me. After a while he said: "You see, though the words have deep meaning they are not the most important thing. It is even doubtful whether the words have been transmitted to us accurately. Versions differ and nuances are introduced by translation. The most important thing about the prayer is that it is a convenient measure of a single trained breath."

I was puzzled. "What has breath to do with it?"

He replied at some length. I can transmit his words only imperfectly: The Lord's Prayer, he said, always referring to it as "your Lord's Prayer," was designed "as a devotional breathing exercise to be chanted on a single even breath." The same was true of other ancient prayers composed in the East in the distant past. Subtle advantages of far-reaching value, he said, are derived from the vibrations caused by correct incantation, polarized mentally by the words of the prayers. To intone them as they were intended to be intoned equal attention must be devoted to the three elements: the breath, the sound, and the words. In the modern religion of the West, which has degenerated into hopeless institutional formalism, the words are mistaken for the whole thing. "I have been in many churches in England and America," said my mysterious host, "and always heard the congregation mumble the Lord's Prayer all together in a scrambled grunt as if the mere muttered repetition of the formula were all that is required.(1) Have you read your scriptures?"

I told him the Bible had been rammed down my throat as a child, and consequently I had at times been on the verge of hating it.

"It is better to hate than to be indifferent," he replied. "It means you may come to love it when you understand it rightly."

"My father was a parson," I explained.

"Ah, you had a bad start. One does not expect divines to understand the Bible. They cling to the text. You will find that though Jesus dictated openly the words of his model prayer, when he wanted to show how they were to be uttered—the more important part of the matter—he took a few chosen disciples apart into a desert place and gave them special instruction. That was never recorded."

"Why not?"

"It cannot be recorded. It is an individual matter. However alike in appearance, we are all constructed more or less differently from each other. It is closely concerned with how a man breathes, and no two persons breathe exactly alike. Each disciple had first to be taught how to breathe, and then to find the note and the tone peculiar to him on which to intone with best effect."

"But doesn't nature teach us how to breathe?" I argued.

He replied to the effect that nature, of course, compels us to breathe, breathing is that by which we live, but we habitually perform the function in a limited way, without studying it, merely enough to keep soul and body together. Even singers and athletes only study breathing to suit their particular activities. "We also crawl on all fours, make noises, and perform many actions without special instruction, but to walk, to speak, to sing we have to learn. Yet nobody thinks of teaching children how to breathe—nobody, that is, outside certain limited circles. A technique attaches to everything before it can be done to best advantage, and this is especially true of the breath of life, though singularly few people seem to realize it."



http://www.gurdjieff-legacy.org/40articles/ozay.htm

Offline Molly

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Re: Doesn't God leave breadcrumbs... a little trail... for all of His children?
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2009, 08:09:09 PM »
One breath, one note--is it possible?



Our Father which art in heaven,
 Hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

 3Give us day by day our daily bread.

 4And forgive us our sins;
for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us.
And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.

--Luke 11


Offline Cardinal

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Re: Doesn't God leave breadcrumbs... a little trail... for all of His children?
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2009, 08:44:07 PM »
 :cloud9:  That is amazing, and probably explains why prayers were chanted in the first place, and why most people upon hearing the Gregorian chants are inexplicably moved. It makes perfect sense to me, as we were intended to be instruments of praise unto the Lord, a "wind" instrument.

Also, He spoke everything into existence; bet that needs to be meditated on a bit too as our limited understanding no doubt comes no where close to comprehending the depth of that, as it is with everything else in there. Everything He does or has done is like a magnificent puzzle, a piece here, a piece there. He is just awesome beyond words.

He showed me vision once as I was praying for someone. I think it relates, as it is the sound component of our breath. I saw my prayer language in a small stream of symbols ascending straight up. When I looked up, I saw a river of the same type symbols flowing thru the clouds horizontally. When my small stream was ascending thru this realm in which time is, I could see it was slower. But when it hit the large river and merged into it, I was aware that the answer to my prayers, was instantaneous in the realm to which they ascended, though they might not manifest instantaneously in this realm that is bound by time.

The two formed a cross, one upright member, one horizontal member. I was reminded of the scripture about the fervent (as I recall word here is tied in somehow to fire) prayers of a righteous (upright) man (Spirit of Christ in us, praying through us) availeth much. Blessings...
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Molly

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Re: Doesn't God leave breadcrumbs... a little trail... for all of His children?
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2009, 09:07:47 PM »
Yes.  I stood next to a professional singer once, and I realized she was using her body as a musical instrument.  I suppose that should be obvious, but until you hear it up close, it's not so obvious.  It was like standing next to someone playing a cello--the vibration, the clarity of the notes...all deliberate..

Creation--spoken into existence, and praise--it's all about vibration--which are just waves through air..as is light, itself...

Spirit is his Holy breath..



Psalm 96:1
O sing unto the LORD a new song: sing unto the LORD, all the earth.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2009, 09:12:38 PM by Molly »