Author Topic: Does anybody here know anything about Martin Zender: personally or his books?  (Read 2801 times)

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martincisneros

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He's been on my heart for a few months now with growing intensity and I genuinely don't know if that's just been the Holy Spirit wanting me to keep him in my prayers or if I'm supposed to read a book or two by him.  I've heard things about him being comedic, but I've never yet found a funny line on his website, so I'd assume the books might have some wit in them.  I'll start with an easier question to answer and if I get extra info about him, [either here or by PM,] going through the flames of Hell right now and probably genuinely needing a good intercessor in his behalf, then I'll privately take things from there on that.  But has anyone read any of his books?  Can anyone tell me anything about any of his books?  Light reading?  Insightful?  Combination?  Cheeseball?  Birdbrain?  Profound and life changing?

crlnray

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Hi martincisner,I have read  some of his books,The one I like the best is Free Will.It is will written and helped me a lot to under stand,that our Fathers will is a lot better than our will.Another good book is How To Quit Church Without Quitting God.He Is a good writer,I enjoyed reading his books.His web site is www.martinzender.com You could go there and see what you think.crlnray :bigGrin:

Offline hopeful

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  Can anyone tell me anything about any of his books?  Light reading?  Insightful?  Combination?  Cheeseball?  Birdbrain?  Profound and life changing?

I haven't read any of his books
but my husband has listened to many (all?) of his old radio shows. 
Have you listened to them? 
I have listened to some of them, too
but I have more patience with reading...
I think I have read most of what he has written on his web site.
 
The Lord gave me a deep love for him back in the Spring     
Well, Id' rather say it this way-
The Lord loves Him deeply and I can feel it!    :HeartThrob:
I wrote to him during that time at the Lord's leading. 
I'm sure Martin would love to know you are praying for him...

I think you know more about humor than I do  :icon_jokercolor: Martin
so I don't know how to categorize the other Martin's humor...
I know my husband thinks he's funny!   :happy3:
He does use some profanity which I think scares some people off...
 
 :HeartThrob:

Hopeful
« Last Edit: August 12, 2007, 01:17:24 AM by hopeful »
You're welcome to visit http://toknowhimmore.blogspot.com/

Offline studier

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Martin Zender is a pen name. It isn't his real name. :)

martincisneros

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Martin Zender is a pen name. It isn't his real name. :)

 :omg: A Universalist with uh uh uh pen name...? hmmm...   :Chinscratch:  :idea2:

 :grave:  :snor:  :cloud9:
« Last Edit: August 12, 2007, 02:07:22 AM by martincisneros »

martincisneros

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His web site is www.martinzender.com You could go there and see what you think.crlnray :bigGrin:

Yeah, I've read most of his website and I heard the first phase of radio broadcasts that he or someone had uploaded for him.  I just haven't heard the new series of stuff.  Without a broadband connection, I'm not all of that excited about trying to do that nowadays, until I get my broadband connection back - after my good computer's been fixed - after a little more money's coming in.

martincisneros

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I think you know more about humor than I do  :icon_jokercolor: Martin
so I don't know how to categorize the other Martin's humor...
I know my husband thinks he's funny!   :happy3:
He does use some profanity which I think scares some people off...
 
 :HeartThrob:

Hopeful

I don't know anything about humor whatsoever.  I'm always 100% serious.  Or can't you tell?  :laughing7:

martincisneros

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He does use some profanity which I think scares some people off...
 
 :HeartThrob:

Hopeful

  :eek:  :eek:  :eek:

I know quite a few UR ministries with serious toilet mouth issues, that genuinely care more for defending [what got called in one of my favorite Star Trek movies] a "colorful metaphor," than they do for credibility with Christians and Backsliders1 that need a pure witness before they'd be willing to take seriously UR as possibly being a genuine Biblical perspective they ought to sincerely pray about and investigate.  There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus - who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit; and, as we walk in the light as He's in the light, His Blood cleanses us from all unrighteousness.  But...,

that's not buffeting one's self and bringing one's flesh into subjection, lest when one has preached to others, one should find one's self disqualified for the prize - not having competed according to the rules, and not having laid aside every weight that would beset one.

St. Paul, the chief expositor of our liberties in Christ, probably said as much about "the mouth" as Jesus or Solomon did.  And more than either of the others he clearly said to clean that $#!+ up.

I'm tightening up the leash on my own mouth, currently, and sincerely praying for wisdom and deliverance in the matter.  So, I'm not the "first one tossing a stone."



1 I'd define a Backslider as someone raised in, or previously associated with, Christianity that thinks that they know more about it than they genuinely do.  In other words, someone who's been a Christian in the past, but is no longer living in fellowship with the Lord or according to Biblical principles.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2007, 02:38:01 AM by martincisneros »

joian

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How does a dead man run a race?  Or even care about a prize..............that verse seems to contradict the verses on life exchange, my life for his, where I believe the gospel is centered.

I must decrease, he must increase until there is only him..........so where does this striving for the prize come from???  It seems anymore it is either all him doing the driving or me. I overcome by letting go.  I no longer believe I can do anything to win him, my love, my life, except be still until he does his work in me.........it may be a while yet in the wilderness..........but when I am called out he will be driving and I will be in the back seat, along for the ride.........if there is a prize it will be him with nothing between us..........nothing hidden, between us................just some thoughts,
with much passion and reality for me.

Love

Joian

martincisneros

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I decreased and He increased when I abandoned all to follow Him, embracing His Lordship and renouncing all of my former ways.  "I must decrease so that He can increase" isn't a New Covenant statement.  It was a statement from John the Baptist in relation to the popularity of "John the Baptist Evangelistic Association" officially "going off of the air" as the crowds started pursuing Jesus and His Apostles more and more.  It's the same as if someone from Looney Tunes had closed a cartoon saying "That's a wrap folks!!"  It wasn't initially a statement of submission.  It was a statement from someone with some humility whose "public ministry" just "went to Hell" as far as his monthly partner base, the subscribers to his tape of the month, etc., etc., etc.

After the resurrection, the command is repentance, and upon repentance, belief that God raised Jesus from the dead, and confessing Him as the Lord of one's life, then one is raised up and made to sit together with Him in heavenly places far above all principality and power and every name that's named.  We're given His Name and are to be thoroughly equiped for every good Work through increasing in the grace of God and Apostolic doctrine so that we're "no longer tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine," but conformed to the image of His dear Son; walking in the light as He's in the light: going into all of the world and preaching the Gospel, discipling the nations, casting out demons, healing the sick, raising the dead, and assuring everyone that Jesus Christ is the same, yesterday, today, and to the age when He delivers up the Kingdom to God the Father.  He's the Chief Shepherd and High Priest Who administers the Words of the New Covenant in the lives and in the mouths of believers so that as we walk by faith and not by sight, realizing that what's seen is temporary and the blindness of those whose minds Satan has blinded to the glorious Gospel is eonian.

"I must decrease so that He can increase" is daily happening for anyone whose very Words and natures are growing further and further into His image, as they're working out their salvation with fear and trembling REALIZING that it's God at work within them to will and to do for His good pleasure.  And that's where the race comes from that Paul is talking about in Corinthians, or the wrestling match comes from that he's talking about in Ephesians.  Having done all to stand, we stand, praying with all prayers and supplications in the Spirit and that boldness and utterance would be given to each of us to share this New Life with the masses in the Name and in the total example and fullest Power [in demonstration] of Jesus Christ.

Offline dboutwell

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I have read most of his books and I really like the way he makes his point. He is embarking on taking the good news on the road the upcoming weeks and months. Speaking where he is invited, starting with the NorthEast area I believe. I had an email telling more about it but I have deleted it.

Seems that God is "stirring" him and that may be why he needs someone to pray for him.....
 God Bless him as he travels.

Debbie :)
Blessings :)

Debbie

Offline Tony N

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I know Martin Z. personally. I speak at his conferences each year in Ohio, so I better know him. We e-mail back and forth as well. Jeff P., er, uh, Martin Z. is the modern day equivalent of Mark Twain.

His books are highly recommended by me. He has been emerging from being very burned out. I never thought of him being comedic. That might be me   :icon_joker: but not him.
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

NorthSeeker

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I have read two of Martin Zenders books and plan to order more.  I find his writtings very enjoyable reading.  Thing's he teaches God has used his writting's to bring me revelation of truth.  One thing Martin is good at is getting people to look into the scriptures for themselves.  He also sounds very humble on his audio streams. Just my  :2c:

God Bless,
Bruce

martincisneros

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I always wonder about the ethical implications of a UR author using a Pen Name.  I know my history that there have been UR authors that have done it before, and I think that Chauncy's "Mystery Hid From Ages and Generations" may have even been originally penned anonymously, if I'm not mistaking the story of that with another book/author.  Seems to open the door wide to the criticism of being too afraid to stand behind one's Bible beliefs in one's own name.

Yet at the same time, if I felt like I ever had peace about it, "martin cisneros" would have probably ""disappeared"" a long time ago.  Because I know that a Pen Name allows one to be bolder about certain things (sometimes), and also demands a certain [elevated] degree of excellence if you're not wanting to sound exactly like "you" to everybody that would know you personally.

Offline hopeful

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I know Martin Z. personally. I speak at his conferences each year in Ohio, so I better know him. We e-mail back and forth as well. Jeff P., er, uh, Martin Z. is the modern day equivalent of Mark Twain.

His books are highly recommended by me. He has been emerging from being very burned out. I never thought of him being comedic. That might be me   :icon_joker: but not him.

Tony, can you shed any light on why he uses a pen name?
My thought would be simply for privacy's sake.
Also, I don't think he has ever identified himself as a Universalist.  Right?
You're welcome to visit http://toknowhimmore.blogspot.com/

Barbara

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I have read most of his site and all his books. His first book "How to Quit Church without Quitting God" was very freeing and I love his humor. We all relate to different  personalities and I did not mind some of his objectionable words. He brings reality into your life.

Barbara

Offline Tony N

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Quote from: hopeful link=topic=148.msg845#msg845 date=
Tony, can you shed any light on why he uses a pen name?
My thought would be simply for privacy's sake.
Also, I don't think he has ever identified himself as a Universalist.  Right?

The reason for the privacy is because he knew if he did his job well enough that Christians would want to kill him. I'm sure he wanted to protect his family as well.

On his radio shows he did identify himself as believing God would save all. As far as being a Universalist, what's that?  :laughing7:

Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline 97531

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Hi martincisner,I have read  some of his books,The one I like the best is Free Will.It is will written and helped me a lot to under stand,that our Fathers will is a lot better than our will.Another good book is How To Quit Church Without Quitting God.He Is a good writer,I enjoyed reading his books.His web site is www.martinzender.com You could go there and see what you think.crlnray :bigGrin:

 :ty: for the link.  Enjoyed reading his stuff.
My Blog       Father's Love Forum - New
IHWLAMAHOB
Christian Milkshake: Pressed down, shaken together and more than we can hope for

Offline Tony N

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Hey seeker, what does this mean in your sig?

IHWLAMAHOB

Tony
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline 97531

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Acts 17:28a
My Blog       Father's Love Forum - New
IHWLAMAHOB
Christian Milkshake: Pressed down, shaken together and more than we can hope for

Offline hopeful

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Quote from: hopeful link=topic=148.msg845#msg845 date=
Also, I don't think he has ever identified himself as a Universalist.  Right?


On his radio shows he did identify himself as believing God would save all. As far as being a Universalist, what's that?  :laughing7:

Right.  That's how I remembered it but I didn't want to misquote him.

My husband would really like to meet Him sometime...
You're welcome to visit http://toknowhimmore.blogspot.com/

squint

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"How to Quit Church-" is a great introductory book for christian universalism.  I bought and distributed some copies which were well received by all who read them.  He kept it easy and had some classically used thought provoking observations for the casual reader.  That one will remain on my recommended reading list.

His "Martin Zender Goes to Hell" booklet is, (apologies to Martin,) a very very poor dissection of the scriptures.  He got way over his head.  Many of his explanations of certain N.T. passages were again imho, not scholarly credible whatsoever, particularly about the Law and his views of Israel.  He almost touches the full preterist positions which some in UR are fond of (I'm not fond of those positions at ALL.) If that's where Martin is going to land with his theological positions on certain subjects, it's gonna be a very short trail.  He may have the big picture down quite well and kudos for that, but sooner or later you do get into the details if you want to remain credible in your presentations and out of the realm of personal imagination worship.  But sadly within UR there are also many many camps of various repositories for positions that are not even remotely credible, but people will still stand and cheer and amen them anyway.  Who really cares about credibilty if it "sells?"

If I had a copy left of the booklet I'd give some examples but I promptly trashed them all as an embarrassing example of poor study and/or poor advice and I won't be "buying" anymore.  I know where most of his positions were parroted from.  I'm sure he meant well, but it was just simplistically bad, particularly since one "pays" to read and learn from people who hold themselves out as "learned authors."  Wasn't expecting just another fairy tale dissection from yet another guy who uses scriptures to cancel out other scriptures because they "don't get them" or they don't jive with their particular theological doctrine carving. 

Harmonization is a tough gig for any who enter therein and cancellation or alteration of The Word is a dead end street, particularly if you want to dialog within orthodoxy.  He would be rightfully laughed at with that booklet as a basis.

Call me bad for being honest.  I don't care.  It was just bad :thumbdown:

squint


martincisneros

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Hi squint,

Thanks for your brutal honesty.  Those were [specific] impressions that I had of some of the radio clips of his, but knowing a little bit about the radio world and the media in general, I kinda gave the benefit of the doubt that he was "sound biting" for those turning through the radio dial.  I'm trying to cultivate a certain level of "natural" ability to do that as well.

All I really care about is if he's making people that wouldn't otherwise look at a Bible AT ALL, if he's getting some of them to go dust it off, and perhaps [very carefully] get some spider webs and cat dander off of it, as well as roach unmentionables, and to open it up and start reading some of the passages that he'll mention.  If he totally blew his credibility with theologians, I don't get the impression that that's particularly the audience that he's after anyway.

I've continued to bump into people that think that he's genuinely very funny.  Well, if he's the UR version of a Jesse Duplantis, then he'll at least help to continue to bring in a new crowd to some of the other UR websites in addition to his own.  If he makes a few people think, touches some of the untouchables with the Love of God, and scares some fundies half to death - I get the impression he's acheived 80% to 90% of his goals anyway  :laughing7:

I bless him and thank God for him and anyone else that's even trying.

squint

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Yeah, I hear ya Martin.  Just like anything else some stuff I can take and some I won't.  That's probably true for all of us.  Many who come to UR will carry some of the things they've established from Orthodoxy to their graves.  Some have to chuck it all and just start over.  There is just not much in the world of christianity that I haven't seen or heard, and this flag from Paul covers quite a bit of territory:

15  Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:
16  The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:
17  But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.

18  What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
19  For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ

And of course who can deny this working in the "churches?"

51  Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division.

I think in this way Jesus was exceptionally successful eh?  Sad, but oh so provably true.  I didn't come into UR understanding expecting to find any different.  But that one great exception to the "rule" of "satan" in the churches of eternal damnation, the salvation of ALL mankind was close enough to heaven for me for now.  Getting the big picture has soothed my soul immensely.  And upholding orthodox doctrines in the face of the greater challenges to find love, certainly is a dead end street as well.  I have seen people waste their entire lives divided over a single word.

enjoy!

squint






Offline Tony N

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Squint, Martin Z. is not a Preterist, nor even a partial preterist.
He believes a future millennium is coming.

I think you misunderstood his book.
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.