Two excerpts of secular history mentioning Jesus have been posted now. I'd say take it or leave it.
Unless you can prove Tacitus (a famous historian, not someone prone to lie) was lying (he would have no reason; romans and christians weren't exactly best friends. If anything, denying Jesus' existance would be favorable for them) it's a fact he existed. Period.
There's obvious evidence for his existance. We shouldn't have to prove a historical figure did exist, they should prove he didn't! I could make a webpage right now claiming hitler didn't exist, despite the evidence arguing to the contrary. Wouldn't people just say I'm a fool? And wouldn't they say I have to supply evidence that he didn't exist, rather than the other way around?
I agree with much of your post...much of what Josephus has to say is amazing and I do consider it...Tacitus as well...but yet there is scholarship to suggest the writings of Josephus have been added to, and if they were not, it is still heresay. So, I think it is safe to say...there is no way to know.
Dave...obviously you do not know enough about me to make a call like you did. If you had read and understood my original post, it is evident I have "met" Jesus the WAY...I have never met Jesus the HUMAN. Dave, I have read several of your posts as a lurker on this boad and you are quite adept at producing nice little "soundbytes." I look for something more. If you have nothing to offer, then I ask you please refrain from joining the discussion. If you choose not to, then I will simply ignore you and you can rest assured that you will be writing for yourself only.
You are quite right in your assessment that there is NO proof of the historical Jesus Christ either archealogically or written by people living in the same era as him (ie eye witness accounts) except for the Biblical narratives (gospels)....and they were written 70 to 90 years AFTER his birth
This in itself is quite an anomaly as the Bible states that "multitudes followed him"...the Jews, Romans, Samaritans even Egyptians and Persians should have heard about him if he caused such a commotion in Judea, Samaria and Galilee that someone MUST have written about him...his doctrines...his teachings...someone contemporary with him who lived at the same time...BUT...the first we find written about the historical Jesus is supposedly Mark in 70AD...40 years AFTER his death?
In the cultures/nations I mentioned above there were many historians and/or religious scholars that could have written about this "god-man" walking the earth...but there is NOTHING written about the historical Jesus from someone during or even shortly after the supposed life of Jesus Christ....NO eye witness accounts that can be verified
for anyone reading this, we must remember that we are talking about the historical Jesus (ie life and times) NOT about his supposed followers ie Christians...
Christians were first called that name in Antioch where Paul preached...Jesus NEVER went to Antioch...this is a very important fact we have to take in
hence many history scholars state that Christianity should be called Paulianity...and that the "sect of Christianity" was not started by Jesus Christ, but by Saul of Tarsus
and to give the example of Paul seeing the light on the way to Damascus...where is the second witness to that as demanded for a prophet according to the Bible?
We only have one man's account, his own (or of his scribe Luke)
many Christians believe that the story of Jesus Christ as son of God...Saviour of the world...begat by God's spirit with an earthly woman who was a virgin...being born poor with animals in a manger/cave...growing up and being a sage at a young age with incredible spiritual insight...healing the sick and the lame...and dying for his beliefs...and being resurrected...many think this story is unique to Jesus Christ...
this is NOT so...
Jesus Christ shares striking similarities with other god-men of almost ALL other religions/sects/cults, some predating him by 3000 years!...examples are the lives/myths of Osiris, Horus and Isis of Egypt...Mithras of Persia and Rome...Krishna of India...Dionysus/Bacchus of the Greeks/Romans...as well as to some extent Hercules/Apollo...also Attis of Phrygia...Zoroaster/Zarathustra of the Persians...Buddha of the Easterners
- born of a virgin
- birth celebration on 25th December,
- only begotten son of God,
- annointed one (ie Christ/Messiah),
- his teachings (especially the Sermon on the Mount)
...and there is more...
from studying the above lives/myths it is clear that there has been a need in man's heart since the beginning of mankind (of what we have evidence) for a saviour god to come to earth and save man from iniquity/himself...
it is also important to note that more is written about these other god-men in ancient literature than about Jesus Christ (outside of the Bible that is)...this in itself seems a bit odd don't you think?