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Offline ded2daworld

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Did Jesus "fail'?
« on: October 19, 2012, 09:01:42 PM »
Is this the crux of the whole matter concerning Ultimate Reconciliation?
Jesus was sent into the world to save the world. He was sent to "take away" the sins of the world.
He came that we might have life and might have it abundantly.
So did Jesus fail? If there is nothing we can do to save ourselves, if Jesus is "the author and finisher of our salvation"
and we were born sinners, did Jesus fail because so many are not saved before they die?
I believe in prophecy. Prophecy that is directly from God. I came across this verse today:Isaiah 52:13-15

The Lord says,

"My servant will succeed in his task;
    he will be highly honored.[d]
14 Many people were shocked when they saw him;
    he was so disfigured that he hardly looked human.
15 But now many nations will marvel at him,
    and kings will be speechless with amazement.
They will see and understand
    something they had never known.
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No matter what others may say or write, only the word of God is the word of God.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Did Jesus "fail'?
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2012, 11:34:39 PM »
I think all Christians answer that question with: No

It's just that most understand it in a non UR way.
For example they add limitations like elect and being part of the right denomination.
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1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Did Jesus "fail'?
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2012, 01:30:34 AM »
Quote from: WhiteWings on October 19, 2012, 11:34:39 PM
I think all Christians answer that question with: No

It's just that most understand it in a non UR way.
For example they add limitations like elect and being part of the right denomination.

Agreed. :thumbsup:
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Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Did Jesus "fail'?
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2012, 01:34:12 AM »
Quote from: ded2daworld on October 19, 2012, 09:01:42 PM
Is this the crux of the whole matter concerning Ultimate Reconciliation?
Jesus was sent into the world to save the world. He was sent to "take away" the sins of the world.
He came that we might have life and might have it abundantly.
So did Jesus fail? If there is nothing we can do to save ourselves, if Jesus is "the author and finisher of our salvation"
and we were born sinners, did Jesus fail because so many are not saved before they die?
I believe in prophecy. Prophecy that is directly from God. I came across this verse today:Isaiah 52:13-15

The Lord says,

"My servant will succeed in his task;
    he will be highly honored.[d]
14 Many people were shocked when they saw him;
    he was so disfigured that he hardly looked human.
15 But now many nations will marvel at him,
    and kings will be speechless with amazement.
They will see and understand
    something they had never known.

Not to cause debate but :HeartThrob:.....
I believe that the Lamb, Jesus took away the "sin" of the world, not "sins." I  only say that from this
Joh 1:29  The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
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Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Lazarus Short

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Re: Did Jesus "fail'?
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2012, 02:45:01 AM »
Someone explain to me how Jesus could have failed?  He was, after all, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. :dunno2:
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Socrates taught Plato.  Plato taught Aristotle.  Aristotle tutored the son of Philip of Macedon.  This boy grew up to become Alexander the Great, largely by slaughtering a lot of people.  That's philosophy.

Jesus spoke the Truth.  He blessed the poor.  He healed the sick.  He even raised the dead.  He died on a cross for us, lived again, and came back long enough to tell us to love one another.  That's religion.

Offline sheila

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Re: Did Jesus "fail'?
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2012, 05:18:07 PM »
 they also set limitations through 'works of the individual" or works of their hands....instead of the

   the Father's works done through His son........Rev 9;20  the rest of mankind did not repent of the work of their

  hands..they did not stop worshipping demons and idols of gold silver  bronze stone wood[dead works]

  nor did they repent of murder,majic arts,sexual immorality or theft.

    God's salvation is NOT dependant on man but God   Habakuk 3;17  though the fig tree does not bud

  though the olive crop fails and the field produce no food,though there are no sheep in the pen


   YET,I WILL REJOICE IN THE LORD,I WILL BE JOYFUL IN GOD MY SAVIOUR

    trusting in GOD'S PROVIDENCE REGARDLESS OF CIRCUMSTANCES
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Offline ded2daworld

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Re: Did Jesus "fail'?
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2012, 05:39:47 PM »
micah
did the world only commit one sin? does it make a difference if we say "the blood of the lamb washed away all my sin" or "the blood of the lamb washed away all my sins"?

Keep me on my toes :gimmefive:
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"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"
No matter what others may say or write, only the word of God is the word of God.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Did Jesus "fail'?
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2012, 06:05:30 AM »
Quote from: ded2daworld on October 20, 2012, 05:39:47 PM
micah
did the world only commit one sin? does it make a difference if we say "the blood of the lamb washed away all my sin" or "the blood of the lamb washed away all my sins"?

Keep me on my toes :gimmefive:

Jesus, the Savior of the world died for the SIN of the world, you and me, well we got our own sins, and .we gotta pay for them. We as a Adam do a lot of sinning, Jesus died for THE SIN
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Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Did Jesus "fail'?
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2012, 09:19:33 AM »
I think sin is plural.


(Rev 1:5) and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and washed us from our sins by his blood

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1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline ded2daworld

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Re: Did Jesus "fail'?
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2012, 05:31:00 PM »
Micah 7:9 said:
"Jesus, the Savior of the world died for the SIN of the world, you and me, well we got our own sins, and .we gotta pay for them. We as a Adam do a lot of sinning, Jesus died for THE SIN"

What was THE SIN (singular)of the world?
Are our own sins seperate from the "sin of the world?"
How do you propose we pay for our own sins?
Yes we all do a lot of sinning. If this is seperate from "the sin" of the world and Jesus died for the sin of the world, Then Jesus didn't die for our sins that are seperate from "the sin" of the world?

Trying to keep you on your toes :gimmefive:
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"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"
No matter what others may say or write, only the word of God is the word of God.

goodreport

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Re: Did Jesus "fail'?
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2012, 05:47:55 PM »
Re:  Trying to keep you on your toes.

I don't know about others' toes, but this discussion on sin vs sins has me on my toes...

Ded, Micah, WW, etc. may disagree, but they're ALL right, at least according to my CURRENT POV, which will be the topic of a new thread (I do not wish to hijack this thread)  TOPIC:  Unbelief=sin of the world.
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Offline micah7:9

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Re: Did Jesus "fail'?
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2012, 05:51:21 PM »
What was THE SIN (singular)of the world? .....I believe so.
Are our own sins seperate from the "sin of the world?"  I believe so.
How do you propose we pay for our own sins? Heb 9:27  And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Yes we all do a lot of sinning. If this is seperate from "the sin" of the world and Jesus died for the sin of the world, Then Jesus didn't die for our sins that are seperate from "the sin" of the world?

I do not believe Jesus died as my substitute, He did not die in stead of me, He died as my elder brother to show me His love.
Just how I believe.
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Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline sheila

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Re: Did Jesus "fail'?
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2012, 06:31:09 PM »
SIN 'entered" through one man..and thus unto all men....there you have the sin of the world He takes away..

   and the free gift enters also through one man......whom the breath of the Lord will do away with

  at His Glorious coming in the POWER AND THE GLORY OF THE FATHER

   sin is the abomination in the temple[your body] that causes desolation....whoever destroys the temple

  of God shall be destroyed.
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Offline CHB

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Re: Did Jesus "fail'?
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2012, 07:16:46 PM »
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 21, 2012, 05:51:21 PM
What was THE SIN (singular)of the world? .....I believe so.
Are our own sins seperate from the "sin of the world?"  I believe so.
How do you propose we pay for our own sins? Heb 9:27  And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Yes we all do a lot of sinning. If this is seperate from "the sin" of the world and Jesus died for the sin of the world, Then Jesus didn't die for our sins that are seperate from "the sin" of the world?

I do not believe Jesus died as my substitute, He did not die in stead of me, He died as my elder brother to show me His love.
Just how I believe.

Micah, how can we pay for our own sins? We of ourselves can do nothing.

I agree that Jesus did not die so that I wouldn't have to die but he did die for ALL sin and therefore we will not stay dead when we do die.

CHB
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Offline lomarah

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Re: Did Jesus "fail'?
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2012, 08:14:55 PM »
Quote from: sheila on October 21, 2012, 06:31:09 PM
SIN 'entered" through one man..and thus unto all men....there you have the sin of the world He takes away..

   and the free gift enters also through one man......whom the breath of the Lord will do away with

  at His Glorious coming in the POWER AND THE GLORY OF THE FATHER

   sin is the abomination in the temple[your body] that causes desolation....whoever destroys the temple

  of God shall be destroyed.

WOW that was quickened to me, whoever destroys the temple of God shall be destroyed! Awesome, thank You Father.  :HeartThrob:
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From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline ded2daworld

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Re: Did Jesus "fail'?
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2012, 08:29:32 PM »
Since the wages of our sin is death and without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin, there is no way we can pay for our sins. The debt is too great. If one sin earns us the death penalty - and it does - there is no way we could be sacrificed for each of our sins.
Just as in old testament times god accepted a substitute in the form of an animal sacrificed each year and just before abraham was to sacrifice his own son, God directed Abraham to a lamb caught in the nearby thicket to be used as a substitute.
God sets the bar so high that no normal human can reach it, but now, God, in the incarnate form of his son, takes our place.
We who were unrighteous are declared righteous, we who were far from God are brought near, we who were enemies of God on now called friends of God. - All because of the shed blood of Jesus by his sacrificial, atoning death on the cross.
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"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"
No matter what others may say or write, only the word of God is the word of God.

Offline dajomaco

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Re: Did Jesus "fail'?
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2012, 08:41:40 PM »
Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?"
(which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?").

The Sin of the world was unbelief.
Every person on the face of the earth no matter what or you he believes in.
Has felt or believed God had forsaken him.

GOD DID NOT FORSAKE JESUS.
It was the man of Jesus in unbelief uttering these statements.
Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?"

Gods answer to Jesus was death.
Jesus answer to God .

IT IS FINISHED!!!

To the Glory of God, Jesus over came death and rose again.

Alleluia The Lamb Of God Slain for the SIN of the world.

Me now weeping.
 :cloud9:
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Offline ded2daworld

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Re: Did Jesus "fail'?
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2012, 10:52:07 PM »
 :friendstu:
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"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"
No matter what others may say or write, only the word of God is the word of God.
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