Author Topic: Selling Your Soul to the Devil?  (Read 4291 times)

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Tom

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Re: Selling Your Soul to the Devil?
« Reply #50 on: September 05, 2013, 08:28:48 PM »
I think "the elect" or "believers" can be deceived, but they still have no reason to fear Satan. I think some of "the elect" or "believers" are deceived by the church doctrine of torture forever in fire which I believe is a deception perpetrated by Satan, but they are still saved because they believe Christ died for their sins and was roused from the dead.
With that sort of reasoning, which isn't strictly wrong, I can just as well state nobody has to fear satan because Jesus will be totally victorious. He was also roused from the dead for unbelievers.

The "fear of satan" never was satan personally kills people. It was satan controlling (church) leaders to move people away from God/Jesus. Or in its most direct way let pagan kings attempt to wipe out believers.
So all that combined I think satan should be feared, but the type of fear can vary. For example missing out on the 1st and/or 2nd resurrection.

I agree when you say, "I can just as well state nobody has to fear satan because Jesus will be totally victorious. He was also roused from the dead for unbelievers."

I understand what you're saying about fearing Satan, but I prefer to think of it as being aware of his deceptive tactics and knowing how to counter them by using the word of God. That's what Christ did when he was confronted by him in the wilderness.

"10 For the rest, brethren mine, be invigorated in the Lord and in the might of His strength.
11 Put on the panoply of God, to enable you to stand up to the stratagems of the Adversary,
12 for it is not ours to wrestle with blood and flesh, but with the sovereignties, with the authorities, with the world-mights of this darkness, with the spiritual forces of wickedness among the celestials.
13 Therefore take up the panoply of God that you may be enabled to withstand in the wicked day, and having effected all, to stand.
14 Stand, then, girded about your loins with truth, with the cuirass of righteousness put on,
15 and your feet sandaled with the readiness of the evangel of peace;
16 with all taking up the large shield of faith, by which you will be able to extinguish all the fiery arrows of the wicked one.
17 And receive the helmet of salvation and the sword of the spirit, which is a declaration of God." (Ephesians 6:10-17)

Tom

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Re: Selling Your Soul to the Devil?
« Reply #51 on: September 05, 2013, 09:36:50 PM »
For me the verse gives several bits of information.

The verse defines the elect as a group meaning there is at least one other group. Most certainly unbelievers are a group but I think saints are a group too.
Saints=body. Elect=bride

"IF possible" means "not possible" the way I read it. But even if I'm totally wrong about that it answers the original question/statement because satan tricks a part of the believers to follow the wide road (again)

Quote
Despite the fact that Satan is very adept at deception, I think believers have no reason to fear Satan.


 :2c:

I think there is confusion of the ecclesia of the nations with Israel. It seems the ecclesia of the nations is the body of Christ Paul refers to while the bride of the lamb John refers to is the faithful of Israel.

"We may be rejoicing and exulting and will be giving glory to Him, for the wedding of the Lambkin came, and Its bride makes herself ready." (Revelation 19:7)

"And I perceived the holy city, new Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband." (Revelation 21:2)
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 10:23:33 PM by Tom »

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Selling Your Soul to the Devil?
« Reply #52 on: September 05, 2013, 11:24:11 PM »
Quote from: Tom
That leaves me wondering why you say, "Saints=body. Elect=bride." I know some folks think the "body" and "bride" are the same, but I don't.
I'm just guessing a bit Tom.   :winkgrin:


1st Adam           = Adam
1st bride          = Eve
1st bride's origin = Taken out of the 1st Adam's body (as a rib)
2nd Adam           = Jesus
2nd bride          = Elect
2nd bride's origin = Taken out of 2nd Adam's body (as a mystery)



Note that near His dead Jesus betrothed His bride. A bride was veiled during the whole betrothal period until a short moment before the consummation of the marriage.
Nobody saw the face of the bride so it was a mystery who she was. Same for the elect. Nobody/very few know them.

 :2c:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline sheila

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Re: Selling Your Soul to the Devil?
« Reply #53 on: September 05, 2013, 11:52:44 PM »
it's the water aand the blood that flowed from His side,guys...that maake up the bride....the life is in the blood/spirit

  the waters of life..that we drink..and will never thirst again...and from your belly[bride's will flow waters of life]

Tom

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Re: Selling Your Soul to the Devil?
« Reply #54 on: September 06, 2013, 01:13:07 AM »
Quote from: Tom
That leaves me wondering why you say, "Saints=body. Elect=bride." I know some folks think the "body" and "bride" are the same, but I don't.
I'm just guessing a bit Tom.   :winkgrin:


1st Adam           = Adam
1st bride          = Eve
1st bride's origin = Taken out of the 1st Adam's body (as a rib)
2nd Adam           = Jesus
2nd bride          = Elect
2nd bride's origin = Taken out of 2nd Adam's body (as a mystery)



Note that near His dead Jesus betrothed His bride. A bride was veiled during the whole betrothal period until a short moment before the consummation of the marriage.
Nobody saw the face of the bride so it was a mystery who she was. Same for the elect. Nobody/very few know them.

 :2c:

The Concordant Version translates the Hebrew a little differently with the idea explained in the attached file.

"Yahweh Elohim built the angular organ that He had taken from the human into a woman and brought her to the human." (Genesis 2:22)

http://concordant.org/expohtml/CorrectPartitioning/AreTheBrideAndBodyIdentical0.html

http://concordant.org/expohtml/CorrectPartitioning/AreWeTheBrideOfTheLamb.html
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 02:37:31 AM by Tom »

Offline VineBranch

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Re: Selling Your Soul to the Devil?
« Reply #55 on: September 06, 2013, 06:36:56 AM »
Note that near His dead Jesus betrothed His bride.
How did He do that?

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Selling Your Soul to the Devil?
« Reply #56 on: September 06, 2013, 09:50:51 AM »
it's the water aand the blood that flowed from His side,guys...that maake up the bride....the life is in the blood/spirit

  the waters of life..that we drink..and will never thirst again...and from your belly[bride's will flow waters of life]
He was pierced at about the same spot the rib was taken out.
With so fantasy, well a lot of it :winkgrin: , skin can be seen as a veil.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline marie glen

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Re: Selling Your Soul to the Devil?
« Reply #57 on: September 06, 2013, 04:15:40 PM »
Yahweh created good and evil.. evil "to humble mankind"..

I think things are explained in the most simple way.. so all can understand, from 'brilliant' to not so brilliant intellects.. (of course all of us here are in the former :laughing7: )

Someone could however, and I'm sure it's happened, read the verse that God created evil and could run with it, accusing Yahweh of "creating" evil for evil itself, like an entertainment to amuse Himself by.. Of course, this is not scriptural, being as (#1) "God is Love".

That's why a superficial reading of God's Word can fall far short of revealing truth (especially if what they are learning is from the lips and pens of men)..

Which to me is what Paul meant when he wrote of turning someone(s) over to Satan, the adversary and old serpent(rev12) - you can only try for so long to convince someone of Truth (which is also Life/Perfection/God!) then you simply leave off and 'abandon' them to the untruth they are clinging to (untruth also being Satan, father of the lie(s) and opposite of perfection/love/andLife)

Can someone make a deal with the devil? why not, but I sure wouldn't trust his side of the 'deal'! And of course the adversary gets no 'souls'/beings.. Nothing is his. Although he is "god of this world" / leading influence. (Imo, of course man, does not have inherent immortality/a soul, but is "a living soul"/being.

In a dialog about Satan, the adversary, it would be enlightening to talk to someone from one of the nations whose religion is of the darker side.. I've heard tales of possession which could turn a person's hair white. And we could dismiss those as only psychological, but then what of the possessions in the Bible?

Referring to the adversary, Jesus said "You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it." Jn 8:44

Titus 1:2 - Young's Literal Translation "upon hope of life age-during, which God, who doth not lie, did promise before times of ages" [KJ - "in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began.."

from Hebrews 6:18, "..it is impossible for God to lie.."

Thinking ability includes a degree of choice.

But if God is life and perfection, then to choose any teeny tiny thing other than how Yahweh chooses.. is to become imperfect, the opposite of life. What was Yahweh's other option?? (Other than to endow rationality??)

Why did He wait and only create the universe and man and woman after the 1st rebel thought not only occurred but had ripened into open hostility, trickery and sedition???
Hope all are well! :hiya: God bless..
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 04:19:48 PM by marie glen »
"If a stranger enters the room & all are talking in strange tongues, how will they understand?"

"Who is This!? That even the wind and the waves obey Him?" ~ Mt 8:27

Offline marie glen

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Re: Selling Your Soul to the Devil?
« Reply #58 on: September 06, 2013, 04:27:43 PM »
...I think the truth will be revealed if we diligently seek for it.

"Seek and you shall find." (Matthew 7:7)


Amen!
"If a stranger enters the room & all are talking in strange tongues, how will they understand?"

"Who is This!? That even the wind and the waves obey Him?" ~ Mt 8:27

Offline marie glen

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Re: Selling Your Soul to the Devil?
« Reply #59 on: September 06, 2013, 04:34:32 PM »

I think truth is simple.. uncomplicated, but humans make it complicated..

For instance, to 'us'/many "man became a living soul" (became alive!?) not "man was given a soul" seems easy to understand..

And the "life is in the blood".. well, just try draining away the blood from any living creature and see what happens.. I don't think this verse means the source of life is blood.. (is it an Islamic theory first man was formed from a blood clot? yu-uk!)

In the Hebrew concordance (Strong's) the very first reference (Strong's word #1) is "ab" - "Father"
 - Father, 1st, source of all life.. (I just find that to be kool)
   :girlheart:

"If a stranger enters the room & all are talking in strange tongues, how will they understand?"

"Who is This!? That even the wind and the waves obey Him?" ~ Mt 8:27

Offline marie glen

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Re: Selling Your Soul to the Devil?
« Reply #60 on: September 06, 2013, 04:37:58 PM »
it's the water aand the blood that flowed from His side,guys...that maake up the bride....the life is in the blood/spirit

  the waters of life..that we drink..and will never thirst again...and from your belly[bride's will flow waters of life]
He was pierced at about the same spot the rib was taken out.
With so fantasy, well a lot of it :winkgrin: , skin can be seen as a veil.

I was thinking of that just yesterday.. and the verse which says "through the veil, that is, His flesh.."

..and this verse.. "the veil" (in the Temple separating us from the Holy of Holies/God's Presence/His Spirit(imo)
...."the veil in the Temple was rent in half" at the moment of Jesus' in the flesh, death.. QUOTE: "betrothed His bride" - I love it!!
"If a stranger enters the room & all are talking in strange tongues, how will they understand?"

"Who is This!? That even the wind and the waves obey Him?" ~ Mt 8:27

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Selling Your Soul to the Devil?
« Reply #61 on: September 06, 2013, 05:26:39 PM »
Factoid:
Water ran from Jesus' side. Body = temple.
The Temple of wood and stone had a small stream emerging from the Holy of Holies.
Ezekiel has a lengthy passage about that tiny stream becoming a river.
So out of the Temple with cut veil also ran a stream. It's also the river of life. And the fiery stream (that likely fills LoF)

1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Selling Your Soul to the Devil?
« Reply #62 on: September 06, 2013, 06:28:38 PM »
Factoid:
Water ran from Jesus' side. Body = temple.
The Temple of wood and stone had a small stream emerging from the Holy of Holies.
Ezekiel has a lengthy passage about that tiny stream becoming a river.
So out of the Temple with cut veil also ran a stream. It's also the river of life. And the fiery stream (that likely fills LoF)

Living water, Fire, Light, Wind....all ways of expressing the being of God, the essence of His nature, His spirit.
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.com

Offline marie glen

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Re: Selling Your Soul to the Devil?
« Reply #63 on: September 06, 2013, 06:46:48 PM »

Factoid:
Water ran from Jesus' side. Body = temple.
The Temple of wood and stone had a small stream emerging from the Holy of Holies.
Ezekiel has a lengthy passage about that tiny stream becoming a river.
So out of the Temple with cut veil also ran a stream. It's also the river of life. And the fiery stream (that likely fills LoF)

            :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Living water, Fire, Light, Wind....all ways of expressing the being of God, the essence of His nature, His spirit.

            :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
"If a stranger enters the room & all are talking in strange tongues, how will they understand?"

"Who is This!? That even the wind and the waves obey Him?" ~ Mt 8:27