Author Topic: DEMONS~  (Read 11960 times)

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Offline jabcat

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Re: DEMONS~
« Reply #125 on: November 03, 2011, 08:48:37 PM »
eby/roach

surely not dissenting opinions!!!  and they probably both fully believe they're right

 :scratchhead:



Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: DEMONS~
« Reply #126 on: November 03, 2011, 08:49:50 PM »


I see no humor.
If you please, what exactly is so funny to you?

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: DEMONS~
« Reply #127 on: November 03, 2011, 08:51:15 PM »


Oh jabcat.
I see you edited your original post.

Offline Taffy

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Re: DEMONS~
« Reply #128 on: November 03, 2011, 08:52:42 PM »

I must read those links James\Beloved~

heres Ebays Take in part## ive not read this until Now~

Another clue to the mystery of Job is found in Job 1:6. "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them." With what divine genius does the Holy Spirit on the inspired pages of God's Word portray the blessed scene of that first earthly son of God, in the image and likeness of God, abiding in the lovely, fragrant, luscious Garden in Eden. There was a wonderful Presence that walked in the Garden in the cool of the day, and the man presented himself there before the Presence of the Lord and walked and talked with God. We know for a certainty that there was a presentation before the Lord, for as soon as man sinned he heard the Voice of the Lord God walking in the Garden and rather than joyfully going forth to meet Him Adam and his wife "hid themselves from the Presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the Garden." God was in the Garden. Man was in the Garden. What sweet, holy communion passed between them in that blessed hour of man's innocence! But no sooner does Adam, the son of God (Lk. 3:38), present himself before the Lord than suddenly and mysteriously the serpent appears on the scene! There is a man that is perfect, but innocent and the amazing thing is that in the presence of God and that man, there is a devil.

Can you not see how it is, my beloved, that when the sons of God present themselves before the Lord, Satan comes also among them? This very same experience happened to none other than our blessed Lord Jesus the Pattern Son. Did you notice how strangely Matthew and Mark speak of Christ's temptation? "And immediately the Spirit drove Him into the wilderness to be tempted of the Devil" (Mk. 1:2; Mat. 4:1). What a strange statement! Jesus had just presented Himself before the Father at Jordan, and the Father witnessed of Him before all: "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased." Just as God declared Job to be a perfect man, so He declared His Son to be well pleasing to Him in every way. Then immediately the Holy Spirit of God drives the sinless Son of God into the wilderness to be tempted by Satan, the arch enemy of all righteousness, a murderer from the beginning, and the father of lies! Ah, but it was necessary for the Son of God to be proven, to be made strong, to overcome in these realms before proceeding on into His glorious ministry and the agony and death of the cross.
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline jabcat

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Re: DEMONS~
« Reply #129 on: November 03, 2011, 08:53:13 PM »


I see no humor.
If you please, what exactly is so funny to you?


don't you find it interesting?  we, myself and i believe you included, can be so sure we have the "true" opinion, when that's often what it is...an opinion. 

i'm not throwing stones at these 2 men.  as far as i'm concerned, they're both great men of God.  But don't you find place to pause that they would see a doctrinal issue so differently?  then what does that say about the rest of us?

« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 09:01:49 PM by jabcat »
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: DEMONS~
« Reply #130 on: November 03, 2011, 08:54:52 PM »


I find Bros. Eby and Roach on the same page.


Offline Taffy

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Re: DEMONS~
« Reply #131 on: November 03, 2011, 08:55:28 PM »


I see no humor.
If you please, what exactly is so funny to you?

come on, try.  maybe you can see some humor.

don't you find it interesting?  we, myself and i believe you included, can be so sure we have the "true" opinion, when that's often what it is...an opinion. 

i'm not throwing stones at these 2 men.  as far as i'm concerned, they're both great men of God.  But don't you find place to pause that they would see a doctrinal issue so differently?  then what does that say about the rest of us?
May each man be convicted in their OWN mind~
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Taffy

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Re: DEMONS~
« Reply #132 on: November 03, 2011, 08:56:42 PM »


I find Bros. Eby and Roach on the same page.

whats Ive read be it not much # Like two peas from the same Pod Beloved~ :icon_flower:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: DEMONS~
« Reply #133 on: November 03, 2011, 09:00:07 PM »
As long as people continue to dance on the foundation that the carnal mind is the adversary/satan it will continue to be a circle dance.
Romans 8:7

(ASV)  because the mind of the flesh is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be:

(CLV) because the disposition of the flesh is enmity to God, for it is not subject to the law of God, for neither is it able."

(KJV)  Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

(Rotherham)  Inasmuch as, what is preferred by the flesh, is hostile towards God, for, unto the law of God, it doth not submit itself, neither in fact can it.

(WNT) Abandonment to earthly things is a state of enmity to God. Such a mind does not submit to God's Law, and indeed cannot do so.

(YLT)  because the mind of the flesh is enmity to God, for to the law of God it doth not subject itself,

Joh 3:6 Whatever has been born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever has been born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 6:63  It is the spirit which gives Life. The flesh confers no benefit whatever. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and are Life.

1Co 2:16  For who hath come to know the mind of the Lord, that shall instruct him? But, we, have, the mind of Christ.

MIND G3563 nous  the intellect, that is, mind (divine or human; in thought, feeling, or will); by implication meaning: - mind, understanding.

Can we not see the obvious?


Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline jabcat

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Re: DEMONS~
« Reply #134 on: November 03, 2011, 09:00:57 PM »


I find Bros. Eby and Roach on the same page.

You're probably read them more than me (I know you have Eby...I believe once you said you'd read all X # of his Kingdom series.  I have not.)

So, maybe I am truly misunderstanding something, and if so, I'm sorry.

But I take it that Mr. Eby believes satan to be an outside entity (that can affect one's mind), while Mr. Roach believes it to be the carnal mind.  Is that inaccurate?
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: DEMONS~
« Reply #135 on: November 03, 2011, 09:02:13 PM »


I find Bros. Eby and Roach on the same page.

You're probably read them more than me (I know you have Eby...I believe once you said you'd read all X # of his Kingdom series.  I have not.)

So, maybe I am truly misunderstanding something, and if so, I'm sorry.

But I take it that Mr. Eby believes satan to be an outside entity (that can affect one's mind), while Mr. Roach believes it to be the carnal mind.  Is that inaccurate?



Yes.

Offline jabcat

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Re: DEMONS~
« Reply #136 on: November 03, 2011, 09:04:41 PM »
I'd like to add one thing, actually reinforce one thing Shawn said;  that knowing and pursuing Christ is our greatest call.

I believe many doctrinal issues, understandings, etc. are important.  But still, knowing Christ and Him crucified, AND RISEN!  Hallelujah!  is the supreme focus.

Blessings.
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline Taffy

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Re: DEMONS~
« Reply #137 on: November 03, 2011, 09:10:22 PM »


I find Bros. Eby and Roach on the same page.

You're probably read them more than me (I know you have Eby...I believe once you said you'd read all X # of his Kingdom series.  I have not.)

So, maybe I am truly misunderstanding something, and if so, I'm sorry.

But I take it that Mr. Eby believes satan to be an outside entity (that can affect one's mind), while Mr. Roach believes it to be the carnal mind.  Is that inaccurate?



Yes.
Do you suppose the Devil came to Jesus there as a weird looking creature, with little, evil looking horns protruding from his temple, and a pointed tail? How often with our childish and distorted understanding have we pictured Jesus confronted by that legendary figure in the red suit, with a pitchfork in his hands! This is nought but foolishness, for Satan is spirit, even that spirit which now works in the sons of disobedience (Eph. 2:2). How many times have you been tempted by the Devil? Can you count the times? How often has he spoken to you, enticing, suggesting, compelling? Have you ever seen him? Have you ever heard his audible voice? Certainly not! Yet you have sensed his presence, you have heard his voice, you have felt his power! It was all in your MIND, in your EMOTIONS. Does not our Lord, the Spirit of Truth, speak to us in the same way? That still small voice, the inner urging, the inward knowing, the spiritual consciousness all from a dimension beyond the natural senses. Because it is all in our mind and heart does not mean that it is imagination or hallucination! In the depths of my spirit I am absolutely certain that there was not some hideous personality materializing before the eyes of Jesus in that Judean wilderness. Remember Jesus was not only the Son of God, He was the Son of man. Being both He was capable not only of hearing from God, but hearing those things that be of man. So when we speak of that ancient Serpent which is the Devil and Satan, we are not talking about some mighty fallen angel, but that mind that savors the things of man the carnal mind.
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Taffy

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Re: DEMONS~
« Reply #138 on: November 03, 2011, 09:11:31 PM »
Quote
knowing Christ and Him crucified, AND RISEN!  Hallelujah!  is the supreme focus.

 :icon_flower:
  :icon_flower:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline jabcat

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Re: DEMONS~
« Reply #139 on: November 03, 2011, 09:19:14 PM »
found this interesting.  he appears to look at the big picture, considering different angles and possibilities.

http://www.sigler.org/shofar/janeleade/egintro.htm

excerpt;    "Preston Eby, P.O. Box 371240, El Paso, TX 79937, has excellent writings on this subject, and after speaking with him while in El Paso on our last trip, and after reading and studying those writings, I agree with his conclusions concerning Satan, that old (ancient) serpent, the Devil. His contention is that, as the Bible states, Satan is a spirit; the spirit which now works in the children of disobedience. But this spirit works through man's carnal mind. That doesn't make it any less a spirit, for we are told that we must be renewed in the spirit of our minds (Eph.4:23)".

He also says;  "Therefore, let the reader be led of the Lord as to those with whom he might seek to share these things. They are not for all. While there are those who seek the recognition and admiration of others through their great revelation and understanding of deep things, let us realize that we are called to be stewards of the mysteries of God, and one must be initiated into the mysteries of God."

Blessings.
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: DEMONS~
« Reply #140 on: November 03, 2011, 09:29:22 PM »
found this interesting.  he appears to look at the big picture, considering different angles and possibilities.

http://www.sigler.org/shofar/janeleade/egintro.htm

excerpt;    "Preston Eby, P.O. Box 371240, El Paso, TX 79937, has excellent writings on this subject, and after speaking with him while in El Paso on our last trip, and after reading and studying those writings, I agree with his conclusions concerning Satan, that old (ancient) serpent, the Devil. His contention is that, as the Bible states, Satan is a spirit; the spirit which now works in the children of disobedience. But this spirit works through man's carnal mind. That doesn't make it any less a spirit, for we are told that we must be renewed in the spirit of our minds (Eph.4:23)".

He also says;  "Therefore, let the reader be led of the Lord as to those with whom he might seek to share these things. They are not for all. While there are those who seek the recognition and admiration of others through their great revelation and understanding of deep things, let us realize that we are called to be stewards of the mysteries of God, and one must be initiated into the mysteries of God."

Blessings.




I'm missing the intent of your post, jabcat.

Are you saying: Don't throw pearls before swine?





Offline Molly

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Re: DEMONS~
« Reply #141 on: November 03, 2011, 09:30:54 PM »
That's a great article, Jab.  Eby agrees that Satan is a spirit being and brings out some very important points.  Thanks!


So it is with us as human beings. One who grows up in a sheltered environment, who is pampered all his life, grows up a weak, spineless individual. ADVERSITY builds strength of character. If we were never exposed to trials and tribulation, we would grow up weak indeed! The more we are exposed to ADVERSE circumstances, the more we have to wrestle with our environment, the more we are CHALLENGED by the world around us, the stronger we become. Saints, IF WE WOULD BE THE SONS OF THE MOST HIGH we must be STRONG in the Lord and in the power of HIS might! Our Father wants us to be strong, so He has wisely given us wrestling partners to wrestle with, so we will become strong. There are opposing forces (thank God for them!) that we must constantly battle against. Some of these adverse things are the principalities and powers in the heavenlies. "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in heavenly places" (Eph. 6:12).


Now, what does God do but deliberately hand over this perfect and upright man into the hands of Satan to do his worst upon him, only that he should not touch his life. It was be cause God desired to test Job that He brought forth "the smith to blow the coals up on the fire." Please note that it was not Satan's idea to persecute poor old Job! Oh, no! it was God Himself who brought up the subject! There Satan was, presenting himself before the Lord, appearing for duty, and God asked, "Where have you been?" Satan replied, "Walking up and down in the earth" (No mention of Job at all). Well, Satan," the Lord asked, "Have you considered My servant Job? Have you noticed that he eschews evil and fears God? Have you noticed that, Satan?" You can be assured, dear ones, that Satan HAD noticed Job, but he wasn't doing anything to him.

One of the most glorious testimonies of the preservation of the saints of God is given here in this passage by Satan himself. "Does Job fear God for naught? Have You not made a hedge around him and about his house and about all that he has on every side?" Praise the Lord! Yes, there truly is a hedge around the people of God, and that hedge is Jesus Christ Himself. The Psalmist recognized and rejoiced in this fact when he said, "He that dwells in the secret place of the Most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. will say of the Lord, HE IS MY REFUGE and my fortress: my God in Him will I trust: (Ps. 91:1-2). "You've put a hedge around him," Satan said, "and I can't get to him!" Then he went on to say, "You must put forth YOUR HAND and touch all that he has, and he will curse You to Your face." But the Lord, who searches the reins of the heart, who knows them that are His, knows who can be trusted with affliction, and will not allow any to be tested beyond what they are able to bear. He therefore said to Satan, "Behold, all that he has is in your power - in your hand - only upon himself put not forth your hand."



The New Testament abounds with this same truth, Did you notice how strangely Matthew and Mark speak of Christ's temptation? "And immediately the Spirit drove Him into the wilderness to be tempted of the Devil" (Mk. 1:12; Matt. 4:1). What a strange statement! The Holy Spirit of God drives the sinless Son of God into the wilderness to be tempted of Satan, the arch enemy of all righteousness, a murderer from the beginning, and the father of lies! Ah, but it was necessary for the Son to be PROVEN, to be made STRONG, to OVERCOME in these realms before proceeding on into His glorious ministry and the death of the cross. Truly God creates evil and uses it, too, for His glory! The apostle Paul fully understood this great truth and practiced it himself. He instructed the Corinthian believers to "deliver such as one to Satan FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF THE FLESH that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus," and he declares in his letter to Timothy that he himself has delivered certain brethren unto Satan "that they might learn not to blaspheme." But the apostle had experienced something of this kind of discipline also, for he says, "Lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, THE MESSENGER OF SATAN TO BUFFET ME, lest I should be exalted above measure." All this clearly shows that Satan is a creature created by God for a specific work, and even that work shall result in blessing for God's children and redound to the glory of God!

Dear saints of God, don't believe for one moment that anything in all God's great universe is out of control! God is GOD, He IS in full control of every sphere of activity, and Satan himself is under the province of God. May God enlighten our minds to perceive the truth that Satan has no power at all except that which God delegates to him. Do you REALLY believe that Satan could cause all the trouble in the world UNLESS GOD HAD ORDAINED IT? My friend, if you believe Satan is a problem to Almighty God, then your God is entirely too small! Satan is no thorn in God's side who made him in the first place, who binds his hands daily, who sets his boundaries and limits his power and marks his path. Oh, yes, those who would be Sons of God MUST OVERCOME HIM. Beloved, when that purpose is accomplished, Satan will have completed his course as an INSTRUMENT in the hand of God who has everything under control! Hallelujah!

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/serpent/Serpent.htm
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 09:48:39 PM by Molly »

Offline Molly

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Re: DEMONS~
« Reply #142 on: November 03, 2011, 09:43:36 PM »
Quote from: Taffy
Because it is all in our mind and heart...

No, it's not all in my mind and heart.   God is out there, existing independently of me.  So is Satan.

There is a branch of philosophy that believes that, but not me.


solipcism

 the philosophical idea that only one's own mind is sure to exist.






Offline Taffy

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Re: DEMONS~
« Reply #143 on: November 03, 2011, 09:54:28 PM »
Quote from: Taffy
Because it is all in our mind and heart...

No, it's not all in my mind and heart.   God is out there, existing independently of me.  So is Satan.

There is a branch of philosophy that believes that, but not me.


solipcism

 the philosophical idea that only one's own mind is sure to exist.
to takeminor quote from a Post I can find please give me the link
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Molly

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Re: DEMONS~
« Reply #144 on: November 03, 2011, 09:56:37 PM »
Quote from: Taffy
Because it is all in our mind and heart...

No, it's not all in my mind and heart.   God is out there, existing independently of me.  So is Satan.

There is a branch of philosophy that believes that, but not me.


solipcism

 the philosophical idea that only one's own mind is sure to exist.
to takeminor quote from a Post I can find please give me the link

Your last post:


"Because it is all in our mind and heart does not mean that it is imagination or hallucination! In the depths of my spirit I am absolutely certain that there was not some hideous personality materializing before the eyes of Jesus in that Judean wilderness. Remember Jesus was not only the Son of God, He was the Son of man. Being both He was capable not only of hearing from God, but hearing those things that be of man. So when we speak of that ancient Serpent which is the Devil and Satan, we are not talking about some mighty fallen angel, but that mind that savors the things of man the carnal mind.'

Offline Taffy

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Re: DEMONS~
« Reply #145 on: November 03, 2011, 09:56:57 PM »
I can see Prestons Point but have read elwin on the Trudecer~ it makes equally sense~~# let each man Be convicted in His own Mind~~# Great Link On Elwins Beloved# not read His take before either~~~ Im not given to reading others much~I may even read at Least One article Brother Garys has written one day~ :icon_flower:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline redhotmagma

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Re: DEMONS~
« Reply #146 on: November 03, 2011, 09:57:55 PM »
Quote from: Taffy
Because it is all in our mind and heart...

No, it's not all in my mind and heart.   God is out there, existing independently of me.  So is Satan.



Molly God is in You, and you are in Him, He is not dependent on us, but we are not independent from Him

Offline Taffy

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Re: DEMONS~
« Reply #147 on: November 03, 2011, 09:58:55 PM »
my last post was This ~knowing Christ and Him crucified, AND RISEN!  Hallelujah!  is the supreme focus.

Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Taffy

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Re: DEMONS~
« Reply #148 on: November 03, 2011, 10:01:08 PM »
Quote from: Taffy
Because it is all in our mind and heart...

No, it's not all in my mind and heart.   God is out there, existing independently of me.  So is Satan.



Molly God is in You, and you are in Him, He is not dependent on us, but we are not independent from Him
again Im not sure what Molly Ona bout concerning my post, Id have to read again~ But I see as  an analogy , men being Fish made of water , He being the WATER of the sea they swim in and Him In the Fish~
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Molly

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Re: DEMONS~
« Reply #149 on: November 03, 2011, 10:01:28 PM »
Quote from: Taffy
Because it is all in our mind and heart...

No, it's not all in my mind and heart.   God is out there, existing independently of me.  So is Satan.



Molly God is in You, and you are in Him, He is not dependent on us, but we are not independent from Him

What I mean to say is--God exists with or without me or all the people on the face of the earth.