Author Topic: Dan.12:4  (Read 3857 times)

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Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #50 on: June 12, 2009, 04:38:06 PM »
1 or 1 million God hears all prayers.   He answers them according to his will.

If prayer was the true vehicle for true belief that gets us our preferences, then Jesus would not have been crucified.   Sure people can say he desired Gods will,  but he PRAYED harder than anyone has ever prayed for anything in their life that he not be.  I guess Jesus didn't believe enough.

I've seen more discouragement from the genie doctines than I care to see.  People struggling to get an answer from people who have no answer.   They teach that only if you believe and do not have the means to teach anyone just when you know that you've believed enough.

Oh yeah, you've believed enough when you get what you want like they did.  Cop out.   I know a guy who tries so hard, prays and believes and is faithful.   Just isn't getting the healing he desires while people around him suggest this guy and that guy.  Go here, do this, do that,  oh, you need to increase your faith and it will happen.   At one point he felt he watched to much TV,  well don't you know there are "good" faithful people that will say that very thing,  oh allowing too much of the world in your mind.

None of that has anything to do with why a person does not get the healing they want.

This battle is not about flesh and blood, don't try to make it so, you decieve and discourage your brothers and sisters when you do so and the physical law of averages will make it appear otherwise.

Jesus knew how people percieved him and knew they would take a look at him and say Physician heal thyself,   Maybe Jesus should have watched less TV or created benny hinn sooner.


Livelystone

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #51 on: June 12, 2009, 04:39:09 PM »
[
Brother Cardinal


Love 

Roy    (UK)



 :mshock: :mshock: :mshock:



Offline reFORMer

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #52 on: June 12, 2009, 05:01:01 PM »
You quote Matthew 10:7-10 as if it was the sole standard by which to operate as a servant of God.  Yet look at what Jesus says in the followup to the sending of the 70:

Luke 22:35-38, (AV)...
35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

I had a sinus problem.  There is a long several stories regarding it, but not for now.  I was also being treated for injuries due to falling through a hatch.  The combination of narcotics, anti-depressants and sinus medication has so affected people that they end up forgetting their name, slobbering in a wheelchair; yet, the symptoms disappear within about two week of getting off that combination of pills.  The sinus medication is over the counter and people take it without tellin their doctor and end up in trouble.  Sinus medication shrinks blood vessels, including those in the brain.  I say this because it is no small matter, the headaches and related complications from sinus conditions.

I had casually turned on the TV and Benny Hinn was on.  After a little, he said something to the effect that, "Someone with a sinus condition, there's power over your head...Jesus is healing you right now." He may have said, "There's a ball of power over your head," I don't remember.  I know he said it was over my head.  Yet I experienced God manifesting in a ball of gentle power in front of the bridge of my nose, where the nose and eyebrows meet, in front of my forehead.  It was around the size of a ping-pong ball, a little bigger maybe...softball size was maybe another time.  Anyway, I was absolutely healed.  I had been on sinus medication for about 4 1/2 years.  Didn't take it again but once a couple days later sort of out of habit.  I just didn't need it any more.  I like to turn on his program.  I sometimes experience a flowing forth of power from him.  There's also something spiritually edifying in the healing experiences of others. 

There are many things that have another side to them.  For instance, I saw a supposedly reliable TV expose' of Benny Hinn's hotel stays in very expensive hotels and suites.  Yet it wasn't based on his own financial statement, only that he'd stayed in a place that was so much a night.  It didn't say if these were complimentary stays or if some wealthy person had financed them.  Beyond the blessing to a brother who owned a hotel to offer the use of his best, the press coverage makes such a donation more than worth it.  With his notariety it would be unwise to stay somewhere without sufficient security for his privacy.  It is very costly for large arenas for the literally millions of people in attendance.  To appear in 20 or 30, or so countries a year in front of huge gatherings having his own plane is much better than even trying to go commercially, not only economically, but to maintain the schedule, security, and other issues.  You pray like Benny does for a minimum of 5 hours a day for the next 20 years and get back to me about what you think has transpired, at least in part, because of it.

I can be critical about so many persons and the organizations raised up around them.  To some extent, because they are public we should.  But if engaged in, it must be with awarenes that a wrong attitude here can block you from progress in your spiritual life and its expression in many ways.  People I've known who made a good start in following the Lord, some of them getting free even for years from drug and alcohol abuse, one of the common signs of their impending fall back into a sordid lifestyle which shortly transpired is criticism of the "Christian-ness" of the more prominent believers or ministries in their life.   A certain friend I tried in various ways to turn on to the Lord.  One day I make some insightful and deeply dismissive observations about a televangelist I struggle to not absolutely loathe because of his doctrine and attitude and he responded how he'd taken to watching him regularly and been so inspired by him.  I really tried to back-track, but...feathers to the wind.

Just leave others to their own assignments and transgressions.  If we are to be a direct influence, person to person in someone's life that is a different matter.  But, for our own advancement in the things of God we need to realize we are not responsible for all those other people out there and what they do or do not do.  We are only to pray in secret for them.  If we do that even for our enemies, we won't make it the subject of conversation.  We dealt with God.  We each must answer for our own self and, "...receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." (2 Co 5:10, AV)
« Last Edit: June 12, 2009, 05:58:52 PM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #53 on: June 12, 2009, 05:11:18 PM »
 :cloud9: Hi Roy........I'm going to reply to something you said in your reply to Martin first. People falling under the power of God, do fall backwards. It's in there. It's called being slain in the Spirit, and it is because, in principle, that no enemy can stand in the presence of God and that enemy is between our eyes. When you are slain, you feel the Spirit of God coming directly at your head, addressing that which is enmity against Him, the carnal mind.

As for it being hysteria, far from it. I received the baptism in the HG and was slain in the Spirit at the same time, 4 months after I came to the Lord, by what I was allowed to see as "comet" shaped ball of fire coming down thru the heavens. It was 4 months before the Lord quickened to me that it was the "tongues" of fire spoken of on the day of Pentecost, tongue there as the tongue or flame.

At one crusade I took a rabid skeptic with me, a very analytical highly intelligent sort of professional person, who did not believe it, either. Her husband and 18 year old son went as well; her son had begged to go, I found out he had been watching on TBN before, and he believed.

We were way up in the nosebleed seats of a stadium that was packed. He told us to hold hands; the Lord told me NOT to, else she would think when we fell that I pulled her down. Benny did what you described, and we all started falling rows at a time, as a what I can only describe as a wave of His presence bowled us all over like an ocean wave at the beach.

My guest and her family was no exception, and she looked up at me in shock and the first words out of her mouth, with tears rolling down her face were, "YOU didn't do it!"
Now the interesting thing is, I found out later, that her husband considered himself a "warlock", as his pagan mother had introduced him to witchcraft at an early age, which was apparently why the Lord moved on me to invite her in the first place. ALL came to the Lord as a result of this, and are serving Him to this day.

And me? I was healed of the damage a heart attack from stress, had done to my heart when I was a mere 32, only a few months after the attack happened. I felt a literal fire ball hit me in the chest, I went limp in the seat for twenty minutes, and oh yes, Benny himself was not even on the podium yet, the anointing was present anyway. The Lord had told me to go, and I was obedient to do so; that's all that mattered to me.

I was healed so well, the doctor could not even find where the damage had been. Two decades later, I still have a heart like a young person, according to all the doctors who cannot figure out why my pulse is so low as if I was an athlete, and have neither high blood pressure nor high cholesterol.

So that aside, let me ASSURE you I am no way condoning any inappropriate behavior in his or any other man's ministry, nor do I have ANY man on a pedestal of any sort. But I would like to add to that, Abraham was the richest man in his day, as Job was in his. God is not offended by great wealth, it is the LOVE of money that He is concerned with. God looks on the motive of the heart.

And lastly, the Lord taught me a valuable lesson years ago. It was the tying together of these two scriptures, involving the word APPROVED. One, we are to study to show ourselves approved, and two, that Jesus was approved among us by signs and wonders. So that tells me if ANY MAN, has signs and wonders following his/her ministry, I would do well to not speak against God's anointed, irregardless of whether or not I approve, as it is plain to see, God ALREADY HAS.

And another thing He spoke to me one day just as my foot hit the pavement getting ready to tear into my Baptist uncle for making my mother cry the previous week over her being in a "Pentecostal cult", was this; "WHO are YOU to judge another man's servant? You will hug him and tell him you love him and nothing more."

Now let me make this plain, because again I don't want you to think I am saying this on Benny's behalf, as I am NOT; but on YOUR behalf that you do not reap the fruit of your lips. If you have ought against him, you have a God-given directive to lift him up as a sacrifice is lifted up and offered to the Lord. The LORD will decide what to do with it from there. Blessings.....
« Last Edit: June 12, 2009, 05:38:37 PM by Cardinal »
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #54 on: June 12, 2009, 05:24:53 PM »

If people start saying that people aren't healed then that is just as discouraging.  the point is that there are people who aren't healed physically but are healed spiritually and see their affliction as a blessing.   People will doubt they should feel that way, but it is people who seek what God knows is best.

God can heal at anytime through anything.  People are healed everyday just because.  People start excersizing and their troubles go away, some give credit to God, some give credit to themselves.  Maybe HANS abnd FRANS pumped them up and they got healed, but who is the ultimate cause?   Who's will prevails, what is healing anyway.


I know a person I grew up around, one of my partying buddies,  drunk most of the time,  but you know he was a fun guy to be around.  He had mental problems, was supposed to take medicine, didn't half the time and the other half he was drinking while taking the medicine.

Few years ago he was drunk and passed out across a set of railroad tracks.  Train come along and cut both his legs off.  And of course the "faithful" people I grew up around talked like if he had just come to God, believed in Jesus he'd still have his legs.

Well, what happened was is that through no ones help, he now thanks God that he is alive and after 30-40 years of drinking, doesn't touch the stuff anymore.  Even after that, they don't care about his belief, because they will not look past the loss of his legs and the drunk that he WAS.  They remain in the physical.

Healing without belief in the first place.   God is everywhere in all things.   My old pal doesn't register on the religiscope though, very very sad.

« Last Edit: June 12, 2009, 05:36:04 PM by Paul Hazelwood »

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #55 on: June 12, 2009, 05:33:09 PM »
 :cloud9: Good points, Paul, and yes that is sad. Praise God your friend is "walking" free....blessings......
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Roy Monis

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #56 on: June 12, 2009, 05:40:41 PM »
Brother Cardinal

I am truly overjoyed by your experience and healing.

But it was trust in God, your faith, that was your healing card and it had nothing to do with Benny Hinn. Give God the credit, you could have received the same healing sat comfortably in your sitting room if you had asked with the same faith that you put in Benny Hinn.

My experiences occurred in times of crisis and I'll mention just two of them briefly of the many I've experienced. I will share full details in the appropriate section of the forum..

1)…. I was a very heavy smoker and was given six months to live by the consultant at the chest clinic if I didn't stop smoking immediately. If you have no experience of how difficult it is to kick the smoking addiction, ask a 60-70 a day smoker. I was given 6 months to live. I used to pass out coughing. On one occasion I remembered a friend's advice and as I was recovering called on the name of Jesus, "Lord Jesus please help me!" That was the extent of my prayer because at the time I was a non believer. That was 50 years or so ago and I stand here today at 89 with untainted lungs and fully cured as witness.

2)…….I was starting out in business as employment was very limited at the end of World War 11 and the country was on its knees, devastated. I had no finance and no supplier would supply materials unless you had a permanent shop premises.  I saw an empty shop and approached the owner but a deposit I didn't have was required, so that fell through.

Foolishly or wisely I don't know but I procured a wife that I loved and also a child to support. I didn't know Jesus then, but I knew there was a God, and I always imagined Him looking down at us through a little hole in the sky. So in desperation I remember looking up at that imaginary hole and crying out in my heart, "My God what am I to do?"

You're not going to believe this but that very evening an elite Bently car drew up at my front door. And when I answered the knock I was confronted by a lady in the finest of fur coats. I had no furniture as such, a dining table and four chairs on the HP. At my request she drew a chair and sat down. This was the conversation briefly. "Are you the gentleman that came to my house enquiring after that empty shop?" I replied, "Yes but I can't have it as I don't have the required deposit." She responded "You were dealing with my husband and our lawyer but I am the owner and I heard all you had to say. Are you prepared to do what you considered to be your only option. A set weekly sum, no deposit and no misses?" I couldn't believe it, I was stunned,"Yes!" I stammered.

This is no lie. The shop with living accommodation was worth then £1500 pounds sterling which at today's valuation would be £250,000 sterling. She pulled out an ordinary club card and a set of keys and said, "Use this card as a record of your payments, when it is complete you'll have the deeds and freehold rights and these are the keys. You can take possession immediately and good luck." That was it, no written agreement, no deposit, no fuss, no bother, she got up and went. That was my God at work.

So my brother I can assure you Benny Hinn had no part of it, you could have had your request granted in the comfort of your own sitting room with the same faith that you placed in Benny Hinn. Give God not man Benny Hinn Full credit. Always remember: "TRUST IN THE LORD WITH YOUR WHOLE HEART AND DO NOT LEAN ON YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING "
(pro.3:5).

Give God the credit and praise Him, leave man and his and your own intellects well alone. Consign them to the thrash bin as I have done, and never had to look back.

Love

Roy    (UK)

Roy Monis

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #57 on: June 12, 2009, 06:11:56 PM »
Quote
If prayer was the true vehicle for true belief that gets us our preferences, then Jesus would not have been crucified.   Sure people can say he desired Gods will,  but he PRAYED harder than anyone has ever prayed for anything in their life that he not be.  I guess Jesus didn't believe enough

Brother Paul

Be very careful, do not blaspheme. Jesus, the man, prayed for deliverance as you or anyone else would in that position, knowing He was going to be nailed to a stake in the ground. He sweated drops of blood that's how hard He prayed but regardless He submitted His will to His Father for your sake and mine and the whole world's, so do not blaspheme. Get down on your knees and beg forgivness and thank Him for His mighty sacrifice. Would you pray for someone who would stick a spear in your side and nail you to a cross, I doubt it. "Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing."  (Luke 23:34). That's what he was praying for you, my brother, whist nailed to a cross in the process of giving all for you and DON'T EVER FORGET IT. Don't join those at the foot of the cross who were dividing His clothes.

Love

Roy    (UK)

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #58 on: June 12, 2009, 06:19:37 PM »
 :cloud9: Praise God Roy, for His blessings towards you.  :thumbsup:

I think we have a failure to communicate here, Roy.  :winkgrin: I am not suggesting the glory should not go to God. I am not "advocating" for Benny, I am "advocating" for what GOD is choosing to do thru the man's ministry. Benny, is, as is ALL other anointed flesh, just a "point of contact" like Paul's handkerchief. I hope you can see the distinction I am making here. Blessings...
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #59 on: June 12, 2009, 06:46:36 PM »
Quote
If prayer was the true vehicle for true belief that gets us our preferences, then Jesus would not have been crucified.   Sure people can say he desired Gods will,  but he PRAYED harder than anyone has ever prayed for anything in their life that he not be.  I guess Jesus didn't believe enough

Brother Paul

Be very careful, do not blaspheme. Jesus, the man, prayed for deliverance as you or anyone else would in that position, knowing He was going to be nailed to a stake in the ground. He sweated drops of blood that's how hard He prayed but regardless He submitted His will to His Father for your sake and mine and the whole world's, so do not blaspheme. Get down on your knees and beg forgivness and thank Him for His mighty sacrifice. Would you pray for someone who would stick a spear in your side and nail you to a cross, I doubt it. "Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing."  (Luke 23:34). That's what he was praying for you, my brother, whist nailed to a cross in the process of giving all for you and DON'T EVER FORGET IT. Don't join those at the foot of the cross who were dividing His clothes.

Love

Roy    (UK)



I am pointing out what Prayer is NOT by example.   

Offline Molly

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #60 on: June 12, 2009, 06:48:24 PM »
Quote from: Roy
You're not going to believe this but that very evening an elite Bently car drew up at my front door.

I'd believe it.  Sounds just like Him.  I love hearing testimonies like this.  Thanks, Roy!

2 Corinthians 9:8
And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:

Roy Monis

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #61 on: June 12, 2009, 09:16:46 PM »
Quote
You quote Matthew 10:7-10 as if it was the sole standard by which to operate as a servant of God.  Yet look at what Jesus says in the followup to the sending of the 70:

Brother reFORMer

I'll have to answer your full post separately.

I see the above as two different scenarios,

1)...........In scenario (1) they were sent to reap the harvest that was ready for the picking, under His protection because of the wolves out there,. Their purses were empty before leaving and they were the same when they returned, no one had a purse bursting at the seams. The houses they were welcomed into fed them and provided for their needs in return for receiving the Word of God from them. Food and clothing and such, no money was asked for and none given. And under the Lord's protection no sword was necessary among the wolves.

2)..........He issues a warning to the same disciples, because Satan aware of what lay ahead was now on the prowl. Satan's first target was Peter and he had a fair measure of success. Once the Lord's protection was no longer available Satan would pounce and have a feast, so they would, in symbolic terms, need a sword: "....in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.   (Eph.6:16-17). IMO  The Word of God is the sword He was referring to, because one of His disciples took Him literally and carried a sword and struck off the guards ear and what was the Lord's response: "But Jesus answered and said, "Stop! No more of this." And He touched his ear and healed him." (Luke 22:51).

Love

Roy    (UK)

Livelystone

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #62 on: June 12, 2009, 10:43:17 PM »
A few years back I had attended a Passover conference in Detroit during the time I was site administrator for Great Eagle Ministries Forum. During that time period I had some words with a number of Pastors (LOL some things never change) of doctrines and what had been as well as what would be.

One of the speakers had also been one of those I disputed with although I was very fond of him as a person. Anyway at the end of his message he stopped for a second and then called me forward......... I knew this was to be our reconciliation and when he put his hand on my head I went down like sack of rocks ...... some of those present said that there was at the same time lightening and thundering ....... I can't verify that though and for the next maybe 10 minutes I lay on the floor in front of everyone there basically powerless to move.

What I can verify was during this time period I was suffering from a severe urinary track infection that caused normal bodily functions to be few and far between along with a great deal of discomfort.............. but a couple of hours later while in my room I realized what had been untreatable and chronic was gone and without looking to be healed I had been healed

I did not ask for a healing nor was one offered.......... but one was given.

Acts 14:9
The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed,


And the funny thing about it was .......... the speakers name was Paul  :thumbsup:

Doug
« Last Edit: June 13, 2009, 01:41:38 AM by Livelystone »

Roy Monis

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #63 on: June 12, 2009, 10:44:59 PM »
Quote
I had a sinus problem
.

Brother reFORMer

I am delighted to hear of the healing of your sinus problem. It is a nasty complaint. I know a few people with it and the medication adds to rather than relieves the problem. But you know how it is, when you mention "Ask Jesus to cure it." they laugh me to scorn, but they are the suferers not I. So if they want to keep it what right have I to deny their wish.

But my brother, believe me, your healing card came from the Spirit within you. Benny Hiin was just a catalyst to bring that faith forward seeing his antics on stage. Exercise that faith sitting in the comfort of your front room and your focus on God, with the TV switched off, and in all humility let your heart cry out to Him and your cry will be answered. All through the Scriptures you can hear that cry when trouble arrives: "Then we cried to the Lord, the God of our fathers, and the Lord heard our voice and saw our affliction and our toil and ouroppression; and the Lord brought us out of Egypt with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm and with great terror and with signs and wonders;" (Deut.26:7-8).

Like Benny Hinn, you, I and all God's children who receive His Spirit are the annointed of God so you have as much power - if not more, because you know your credentials but you do not know his - to do even greater things so build on your faith and leave Benny Himm alone: As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him." (1Jn.2:27). These words are not mine they come straight out of God's Holy Reference Book.  You must have read them, why not believe in them and abide by them?

Cast off the old self of INTELLECT RULE and put on the new the SPIRIT OF GOD..

I believe that if the Spirit is in, then the Intellect must be put out. But if the Intellect is allowed in then the Spirit will leave and we will be left as orphans and lose the blessing: "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me; because I live, you will live also. (In.14:18-19)

I am not attempting to teach or influence anyone, all I'm doing is answering questions and expessing my belief. God forbid that I should aspire to be a teacher, we only have one: "But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers. (MATT.23:8) and He is within us.

Love

Roy    (UK)

   

Roy Monis

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #64 on: June 12, 2009, 11:52:40 PM »
 
Quote
Hi Roy........I'm going to reply to something you said in your reply to Martin first. People falling under the power of God, do fall backwards. It's in there. It's called being slain in the Spirit, and it is because, in principle, that no enemy can stand in the presence of God and that enemy is between our eyes. When you are slain, you feel the Spirit of God coming directly at your head, addressing that which is enmity against Him, the carnal mind.

Brother Cardinal

Where in the Scriptures does it mention "Slain in the Spirit" and where does it say that those thus slain fall backwards. This is the Word of God and the Word of God must be quoted in all such cases. So where, brother?

Regarding speaking in tongues; every nation present could plainly hear in their own language what was being spoken by the Apostles. If English is the language of the hearer then he should be able to understand what was being said, but does he? " So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to those who believe. Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?

But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all;"
(1 Cor.14:22-24). So the speaking of tongues is not for the edification of the Church, but more for private commune with God and not for public demonstration, to brng disrepute on the Church. And it should be used with great discretion and not bandied about with as is happening: "So also you, unless you utter by the tongue speech that is clear, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air." (1Cor.14:9). (And as popular belief would have it, it not a sign of one having or not having the Spirit, as not all Spirit filled people speak in toingues: "All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? But earnestly desire the greater gifts." (1Cor.12:30-31).  And the greatest gift of all is LOVE. "But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love."  (1Cor.13:13).

Love

Roy     (UK)

Offline jabcat

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #65 on: June 13, 2009, 01:49:55 AM »
Following this thread, I did a little research and found this.  It may be helpful in the discussion;

"The first thing one should notice is that the word touch actually means physical harm. What it does not mean is saying something about another person publicly that is true. How do we know this? Because that's exactly what David did about Saul. It was David who said he would not harm God's anointed, who was King Saul at the time but He spoke out publicly about him.

In 1 Sam.16:13-16 ....David rebukes Saul before all his troops....Saul then repented for his rash behavior and called himself a fool. David returned Saul's possessions and said, "For the Lord delivered you into my hand but I would not stretch out my hand against the Lord's anointed." Notice what this means, not to bring physical harm.

....Paul called the Berean's more noble than the others. For what reason? They looked to the Scripture to see if what Paul was teaching was accurate.  Paul never said, "Touch not God's anointed" or "do my prophets no harm"; you will never find an apostle teach this, nor is this found ONCE in the whole New Testament."

www.letusreason.org

IMO, it may be a tricky balance, as we're also told to not judge.  May we all seek to rightly divide the Word of Truth.  God's blessing, James.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2009, 03:33:31 AM by jabcat »
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline jabcat

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #66 on: June 13, 2009, 08:22:28 AM »
I stand here today at 89.


Awesome!   You have my respect, brother.  :hihat:
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Roy Monis

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #67 on: June 13, 2009, 01:17:00 PM »
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In 1 Sam.16:13-16 ....David rebukes Saul before all his troops....Saul then repented for his rash behavior and called himself a fool. David returned Saul's possessions and said, "For the Lord delivered you into my hand but I would not stretch out my hand against the Lord's anointed." Notice what this means, not to bring physical harm.


Hi! James

Thank you, my brother, fo that very important information a point which has completely escaped my notice. But that is the purpose of this exercise that we help one another. Continue to search and humbly ask the Lord and He will provide the truth: "So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and he who seeks, finds; and to him who knocks, it will be opened. Now suppose one of you fathers is asked by his son for a fish; he will not give him a snake instead of a fish, will he? Or if he is asked for an egg, he will not give him a scorpion, will he? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?" (Luke 11:9-13).

Seek and ask in humility, my brother, do not put yourself under bondage to Satan by probing with your intellect.  He, the Spirit of God, will fill your cup to overflowing, be patient it takes time depending on how you respond to His appeal: "I WILL DWELL IN THEM AND WALK AMONG THEM; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE. Therefore, COME OUT FROM THEIR MIDST AND BE SEPARATE," says the Lord. "AND DO NOT TOUCH WHAT IS UNCLEAN; " (2Cor.6:16-17). And again: "I heard another voice from heaven, saying, "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues; for her sins have piled up as high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities." (Rev.18:4-5).

Who then is He calling to? The Catholics; the Protestants; the Pentecostals; the Methodists; the Jehovah Witnesses: the Mormons or who? Each group of the hundreds taking cover under the umbrella of Christianity claim that He means them. But who does He really mean?

The answer is none of them, they are all  under the bondage of INTELLECT and corrupt. He is calling His chosen people who, like Noah, Joshua and Moses who kicked out evil - INTELLECT- and chose to follow good - Spirit. They all:   "TRUST IN THE LORD WITH YOUR WHOLE HEART AND DO NOT LEAN ON YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING " (Pro.3:5), trusted in the Lord and not their own understanding - Intellect - and we must learn from their example, that is why our God has recorded these events in His Holy History Book for our perusal. Please read it and the consequence of disobedience "THERE IS A WAY THAT SEEMS RIGHT TO A MAN, BUT ITS END IS THE WAY OF DEATH."   (Pro.14:12 & 16:25) in your Bible and follow it through all the generations.

And what is it that is UNCLEAN and SIN? Why is it not Satan your intellect which is enmity to God? "…because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so." (Rom.8:7).

Love

Roy    (UK)


Roy Monis

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #68 on: June 13, 2009, 02:22:47 PM »
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And lastly, the Lord taught me a valuable lesson years ago. It was the tying together of these two scriptures, involving the word APPROVED. One, we are to study to show ourselves approved, and two, that Jesus was approved among us by signs and wonders. So that tells me if ANY MAN, has signs and wonders following his/her ministry, I would do well to not speak against God's anointed, irregardless of whether or not I approve, as it is plain to see, God ALREADY HAS.

Dear brother Cardinal

Please quote the Scripture where it says all these things? And, brother, it is not my place to deter you from what you believe, my purpose here is to express what I believe the Lord is saying to me and sharing it peacefully with all you lovely people, I love you all, and would do nothing intentionally to harm you or deter you from what you believe. We will all individually answer to Almighty God for our actions.

If you believe in Benny Hinn then so be it. But brother, please remember that stage hypnotists and illusionists can perform some unbelievable things infront of your very eyes by a process known as "auto-suggestion_" where people do some strange things, bark like dogs and such at the suggestion of the hypnotist.  Yes, you can be cured of various ailments by the process of auto-suggestion. But give these people their due they are honest and confess that it is an illusion and they are doing it for entertainment and a living. There can be nothing wrong in that.

But can we be sure that this is not the method used in the name of God? "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits." (Matt.7:15-20). These are warnings and we must heed them and be very wary.
"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNES." (Matt.7:22-23).

I make no claim to being a prophet, God forbid that I should less He made it clear to me, but this reminds me of God's message through His prohet Ezekiel: Then He said to me, "Son of man, go to the house of Israel and speak with My words to them. For you are not being sent to a people of unintelligible speech or difficult language, but to the house of Israel, nor to many peoples of unintelligible speech or difficult language, whose words you cannot understand. But I have sent you to them who should listen to you; yet the house of Israel will not be willing to listen to you, since they are not willing to listen to Me. Surely the whole house of Israel is stubborn and obstinate. (Ezek.3:4-7).

Love

Roy    (UK)

Roy Monis

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #69 on: June 13, 2009, 02:35:15 PM »
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Now let me make this plain, because again I don't want you to think I am saying this on Benny's behalf, as I am NOT; but on YOUR behalf that you do not reap the fruit of your lips. If you have ought against him, you have a God-given directive to lift him up as a sacrifice is lifted up and offered to the Lord. The LORD will decide what to do with it from there.

Brother Cardinal

To answer the latter part of your posting. What gives you the impression that I have something against Benny Hinn? I have seen him and I love him as I love you and all the dear children of God right here on this site, he is a child of God and a charming character. What I don't like is his ministry. You like it, that's fair enough by me, but I don't. My lips speak no ill against the man which you accuse me very unfairly of. That is judgmental, very wrong and not of God I can assure you.

Love

Roy   (UK)

Roy Monis

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #70 on: June 13, 2009, 03:50:29 PM »
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Few years ago he was drunk and passed out across a set of railroad tracks.  Train come along and cut both his legs off.  And of course the "faithful" people I grew up around talked like if he had just come to God, believed in Jesus he'd still have his legs.

Well, what happened was is that through no ones help, he now thanks God that he is alive and after 30-40 years of drinking, doesn't touch the stuff anymore.  Even after that, they don't care about his belief, because they will not look past the loss of his legs and the drunk that he WAS.  They remain in the physical.

Brother Hazelwood

I fear you totally misunderstand my postings. My experience of healing was a personal matter that I believe the Lord wanted me to share, and when I received that particular post I felt that draw to shared it. I am overjoyed to hear of your buddie's life change. And my heart goes out to him and you, but that is no reason to have blasphemed.

I have never said that God would cure everyone who asked, though nothing is impossible for Him: And the LORD said to Abraham, "Why did Sarah laugh, saying, 'Shall I indeed bear a child, when I am so old?' "Is anything too difficult for the LORD?  (Gen.18:13-14). But Intellect is presently in control and if someone cried out from the heart they'd be crying out to Satan and he would be only too happy to refuse so as to demean God, inviting blasphemous posts like yours. But I will say this that the person who casts out the demon Satan and his agent intellect and re-establishes the Holy Spirit in His rightful place then ALL REQUESTS WILL BE ANSWERED: "Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it. If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. (Jn.14:13-15). That is the condition!

I agree with you there are unfortunately a lot of what one would term as religious cranks who trust everything into the keeping of their warped intellects, that's why I'm so against intellect, it is evil, it is of Satan and not of God, so please don't include me in their numbers. I only accommodate the Spirit of God in my relationship with matters relating to God and bring my intellect into use in matters relating to my everyday living and even while there I seek God's help. Other than that I leave intellect to those who want to make the world a better place without God and in the process making it into a sewer.

Love

Roy    (UK)

Roy Monis

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #71 on: June 13, 2009, 03:57:10 PM »
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Good points, Paul, and yes that is sad. Praise God your friend is "walking" free....

I say Amen!! To that Cardinal.

Love

Roy (UK).

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #72 on: June 13, 2009, 04:34:35 PM »
I fear you totally misunderstand my postings.

I do not recall addressing you personally,  they are intended for whoever they can help.

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And my heart goes out to him and you, but that is no reason to have blasphemed.


I have not blasphemed, thats your opinion.


Offline jabcat

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #73 on: June 13, 2009, 08:48:35 PM »
Continue to search and humbly ask the Lord and He will provide the truth:

Love

Roy    (UK)

Thank you, God's blessing.
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #74 on: June 13, 2009, 08:59:35 PM »

I have never said that God would cure everyone who asked


But, everyone will be cured, when and how is not of us.