Author Topic: Dan.12:4  (Read 5108 times)

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Roy Monis

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2009, 06:33:49 PM »
Brother Doug.

I get the gist of what you are saying (2Pet.3:8) and I am aware that Jesus was referring to His body when He spoke about raising the temple in three days. But what has all this probing to do with the ultimate goal we seek - salvation?

If we keep to the Father's rules, requirements, as our Lord demonstrated and live our lives in accord with them - Humility, Obedience and Total Submission to the will of the Father that's all He requires of us: "…seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence. For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust. Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, your brotherly kindness, love. For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins. Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;  for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you." [/b][/u]  ((2Pet.1:3-11)

If your life complies with these essential qualities and you persevere in them what purpose can be served by delving further? These qualities are of the Spirit, so there is no danger of being prompted by any other spirit.

The original Apostles possessed these qualities and they did no deep studying of the Scriptures so why is it necessary today?  During their day it was a common occurrence for the sick to be healed, the lepers cleansed, demons cast out and the dead raised. We don't see that happening today. Why?

The  hidden mysteries were revealed by Our Lord to His disciples - chosen children of God - and they worked those wonders then on a daily basis, why not now two thousand years on by the few claiming to be God's children granted an insight into the mysteries they studied so hard to achieve? It is the same Spirit but followed by no miracles. Why?

These are potent questions that need answes, brother.

Trust in the Lord and not in your intellect is the only answer. Christianity went wrong when intellect replaced the Holy Spirit of Life - Jesus Christ.

Love 

Roy   (UK)

Livelystone

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2009, 06:43:23 PM »
Quote
It is the same Spirit but followed by no miracles. Why?

Harmony with God along with knowledge of and obedience to our Father my Dear Brother is the key to when God chooses to work His miracles through His chosen. When they are all present there are still lots of miracles................. it is just that Jesus said to go and tell no man that we don't see some of them written about on this thread.  :thumbsup:

Blessings

Doug

Roy Monis

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2009, 07:27:59 PM »
NOT doing this, has led to many errors in doctrine already, and almost a complete lack of understanding of references pertinent to Jewish feasts, ect. in the NT, which we need to fully see the types and shadows come to life. Blessings to you....

Hi Cardinal

I'd be more inclined to lean the other way and suggest that it is due to man's persistence in trying to unravel the mysteries using his intellect that has caused the enormous amount of errors resulting in dozens, possibly hundreds, of divisions, such as - Catholic, Protestant, Pentecostal, Methodist, Lutherism, JWs, Mormons, Moonies, Spiritists etc. etc. all taking cover under the umbrella of Christianity. Intellect is for going to the moon and has no place in God's realm as Moses found out at the foot of God's Holy Mountain. "Then He said, "Do not come near here; remove your sandals from your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground." He said also, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." Then Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God." (Ex.3:1-6).
And what Joshua reaped his reward for: "Joshua the son of Nun and Caleb the son of Jephunneh, of those who had spied out the land, tore their clothes; and they spoke to all the congregation of the sons of Israel, saying, "The land which we passed through to spy out is an exceedingly good land. "If the LORD is pleased with us, then He will bring us into this land and give it to us—a land which flows with milk and honey. "Only do not rebel against the LORD; and do not fear the people of the land, for they will be our prey. Their protection has been removed from them, and the LORD is with us; do not fear them." But all the congregation said to stone them with stones. Then the glory of the LORD appeared in the tent of meeting to all the sons of Israel." (Num.14:6-10), after which Israel enjoyed a long period of peace till the last of the elders had died of.

The original disciples did in accord to the will of God not their own understanding - Intellect -and the Holy Spirit was within them working signs wonders and miracles. When man started using his own understanding - Intellect - following in Israel's ways within the first century of our Lord's departure the Holy Spirit left, it's as simple as that. NO Holy Spirit no MIRACLES.

Love

Roy   (UK)

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2009, 07:31:02 PM »
"But as for you, Daniel, CONCEAL these words and SEAL UP the book until the end of time; many will go back and forth, and knowledge will increase."(Dan.12:4)

"And thou, O Daniel, hide the things, and seal the book till the time of the end, many do go to and fro, and knowledge is multiplied." (Dan.12:4, YLT)

"Hide the 'dabar' and seal the book" is, "Till the end of time" or, "till the time of the end" (KJV). Take that with what Jesus says of Himself:  "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." (Rv 22:13, AV)  As far as words on paper, Daniel's "the time of the end" and Jesus' "I am...the end" are the same.  Has the time of Jesus already come upon us?  There is something, mentioned for instance in the book of Revelation, called, "The Time."  While we are in this, from the time the indwelling of the Holy Spirit began to be revealed to us we began to be aware of it.  We may not have develped that awareness very much; but, we can and some have.

I believe there are levels of opening.  The "Equadistant Letter Sequencing Code" or "The Bible Code" is one very real opening of the book.  To me this is something like a sign proving the world itself is entering into "The Time."  Researchers are convinced there is another code, or even several, that can interact with the ELS Code and open it farther.  Gematria, known for millennia, reveals real patterning but hasn't been made to work with the ELS Code yet.  I do believe I recognize certain raised awareness of what is written among the holy people.  They are getting rid of barriers of false teachings that have been and still are preventing many from entering on into understanding what is in the Book.
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Roy Monis

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2009, 07:35:48 PM »
Thank you for the info Doug.  :hithere: and  :ty:

Love

Roy   (UK)

Roy Monis

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2009, 08:23:37 PM »
Quote

Jeremiah 9:20
Yet hear the word of the LORD, O ye women, and let your ear receive the word of his mouth, and teach your daughters wailing, and every one her neighbour lamentation.

Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Dear Doug

I will have to answer this posting from you in several sections as you pose a few questions.

The first one being, the quote above. I see no connection between this and what I've been saying. The Scriptures that I quote, I do believe, are the word of God and that is what I live by. As Jesus so often said nothing that I have said is of my own initiative.

So what is the purpose of that quote? Please explain!

Love

Roy   (UK)

Livelystone

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #31 on: June 10, 2009, 08:39:15 PM »
Brother Roy

"Every word" means just that and being as that is a commandment it needs to be followed...... according to law no witness is allowed to remain silent and that means simply stated means that all verses that have to do with knowledge need to be considered and compared for relevance to the statement that you made as to why we should not endeavor to search the mysteries.


The manner that I placed those verses before you was exactly in the manner of Isa. 28 that I spoke of in my first response concerning 1. line upon line 2. precept upon precept ( such as the law I just mentioned that requires every verse pertaining to the subject be considered...... this is part of what guides us towards truth and away from false doctrines). 3. "Here a little and there a little" aka "to and fro" as well as out of" old and new" throughout the Bible that is a mean to an end of how our knowledge is to be obtained and increased in these end times.

Hope that helps

Blessings

Doug

PS....... what does "UK" stand for?   your place of residence such as United Kingdom or Union Kentucky?

Roy Monis

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #32 on: June 10, 2009, 09:04:59 PM »

Quote
John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Hi Doug.

Now to the second section. For a start I do not accept the use of that word study in your quote it is not in the original Scriptures. The KJV is full of erroneous words. Hell is also used quite a lot, I don't suppose you would accept that so why study? Is it because it suits your purpose better? Examine, search and such are more appropriate.

Next, you wouldn't by any chance be inferring that I don't keep His commandments and as such I don't love Him and He wouldn't manifest Himself to me, would you? Does He manifest Himself to you only?

Indeed I quote love a lot because I love a lot and believe that LOVE is God. "Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love. By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him."  (1Jn.4:7-9).

If that is so, forgive me for saying this, brother, let us not be carried away by our self-righteousness it is not of God.

Love

Roy   (UK)

Livelystone

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #33 on: June 10, 2009, 09:23:28 PM »

FYI I use the AKJ because that is the Bible that He told me to use but it really does not matter  :sigh:

As far as I am concerned you are out of line with both me and the scriptures......... maybe somebody else would like to work with you  :dontknow:

Blessings

Doug


Roy Monis

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #34 on: June 10, 2009, 09:56:59 PM »
Quote
Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy child.

Have I made myself very clear Roy?........ I want you to understand that not only does not seeking the truth of the mysteries lead to apostasy it has been the lack of knowledge that has caused the Glory of God to depart from the church

Dear Doug.

This is the third part of your posting. Again you assume that I have rejected knowledge and as a result suffer from a lack of it. You certainly are one for assuming things, aren't you? What gives you that right? Could it be a self-righteous attitude like the Pharisees of old, I hope not?
"Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you." (Matt.7:1-2).

In what way are you making yourself clear to me? I seek the TRUTH and I put my trust for it in my Teacher who is God, not man. Can God lead me into apostasy, I wonder? That's a new one on me. "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you. Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful. (Jn.14:26-27) and "As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and and you have no need for anyone to to teach you.just as it has taught you, you abide in Him." (1Jn,2:27)

I see no mention of man in any of those two Scriptures, can you? Moreover did you get that last bit highlighted and underlined?

Love

Roy    (UK)

Roy Monis

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2009, 10:23:39 PM »
Quote
It is very simple to see that those who do keep His commandments and do not search out the Word to show themselves approved before God are not only not approved.......... they really do not love Him as they think that they do..

So Roy would you agree that if we do have to make this point again we can continue to move forward together in obedience to God while learning knowledge and uncovering the mysteries?


Hi Doug

Now finally you, my brother, are talking my language. It is indeed very simple to see that those who do not search out His word are not approved, but the mere fact that we quote His word in all dialogue proves that we do search it out and that we do love Him and keep His commandments.

Yes I agree! Humility, Obedience and Total Submission to the will of the Father. But we don't have to probe for it, He will supply it. "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!!   (Matt.7:7-11).

Love

Roy   (UK)

Roy Monis

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2009, 11:12:33 PM »
Quote
"Every word" means just that and being as that is a commandment it needs to be followed...... according to law no witness is allowed to remain silent and that means simply stated means that all verses that have to do with knowledge need to be considered and compared for relevance to the statement that you made as to why we should not endeavor to search the mysteries"

Brother Doug

I have no argument against that. The Scriptures are Holy and they have to be respected as such, full stop. To me the Holy Bible is a Holy History Book and a Holy Reference Book but not a STUDY book to be pried into. If we want to know anything we must humbly ask and it will be given. Yes I agree we must search the Scriptures for what we are looking for and then, as we normally do in physical life, politely - ASK. It is a treasure house of untold wealth which one sells all to buy, and when he has bought it he seaches for what he wants and then politely asks for it, and it will be given - not if we make an unruly grab for it.

I humbly follow my Lord Jesus Christ's example of HUMILITY, OBEDIENCE and SUBMISSION TO THE WILL OF GOD. (Heb.10:5-7) And He is supplying all that I need and I pray some drops on fertile ground here.

Love

Roy   (UK)

PS. UK stands for United Kingdom. And I put that in as there are Roys in all countries. There are plenty of them in the UK as well so I'll have to put a tag on it as and when the need arises.
 

Roy Monis

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2009, 06:00:59 PM »
Quote
When they are all present there are still lots of miracles................. it is just that Jesus said to go and tell no man that we don't see some of them written about on this thread. 


Brother Doug.

If you recall, the person He told to tell no man, blabbered his head off almost immediately. And when the Apostles and disciples worked those miracles virtually on a daily basis they didn't tell those they healed, cleansed and raised from the dead to tell no man, that is how those works come to be recorded in our Holy Referebce Book, the Bible, today. These miracles were worked specifically for the Jews so they would believe: "And He answered and said to them, "Go and report to John what you have seen and heard: the blind receive sight, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, the poor have the gospel preached to them." (Luke 7:22).
"And answering him, Jesus said, "What do you want Me to do for you?" And the blind man said to Him, "Rabboni, I want to regain my sight!" And Jesus said to him, "Go; your faith has made you well." Immediately he regained his sight and began following Him on the road." (Mark 10:51-52).

In the face of these two Scriptures and more, your deduction does not hold water, brother. All the healings were done in full public view so the recipients had no cause to keep quiet.

Love

Roy   (UK)

Roy Monis

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #38 on: June 11, 2009, 06:18:14 PM »
Quote
I believe there are levels of opening.  The "Equadistant Letter Sequencing Code" or "The Bible Code" is one very real opening of the book.  To me this is something like a sign proving the world itself is entering into "The Time."  Researchers are convinced there is another code, or even several, that can interact with the ELS Code and open it farther.  Gematria, known for millennia, reveals real patterning but hasn't been made to work with the ELS Code yet.  I do believe I recognize certain raised awareness of what is written among the holy people.  They are getting rid of barriers of false teachings that have been and still are preventing many from entering on into understanding what is in the Book

Brother reFORMer

Forgive my ignorance, but I have not a clue as to what all that means. I keep strictly to God's Holy Word and any such thing as "The Bible code, Gematria and ELS code" are Intellect driven assumptions and as such, I regret to say, I confine them to the dust bin.

Sorry for being so blunt, believe me no offense is intended, it's just that I have no time to spend of such speculations.

Love

Roy    (UK)

Livelystone

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #39 on: June 11, 2009, 06:39:27 PM »
Quote
When they are all present there are still lots of miracles................. it is just that Jesus said to go and tell no man that we don't see some of them written about on this thread. 


Brother Doug.

If you recall, the person He told to tell no man, blabbered his head off almost immediately. And when the Apostles and disciples worked those miracles virtually on a daily basis they didn't tell those they healed, cleansed and raised from the dead to tell no man, that is how those works come to be recorded in our Holy Referebce Book, the Bible, today. These miracles were worked specifically for the Jews so they would believe: "And He answered and said to them, "Go and report to John what you have seen and heard: the blind receive sight, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, the poor have the gospel preached to them." (Luke 7:22).
"And answering him, Jesus said, "What do you want Me to do for you?" And the blind man said to Him, "Rabboni, I want to regain my sight!" And Jesus said to him, "Go; your faith has made you well." Immediately he regained his sight and began following Him on the road." (Mark 10:51-52).

In the face of these two Scriptures and more, your deduction does not hold water, brother. All the healings were done in full public view so the recipients had no cause to keep quiet.

Love

Roy   (UK)

You just do not get it   :sigh:

Did Jesus go around bragging of miracles ?......... did the apostles?.......... no they did not and neither will those who God chooses to work through today.

Scammers yes but the true person of God is humble and recognizes that it is God working and not them

I know people who have seen the dead raised and healings that could not be done by man but they have yet to ever go and tell people that they have seen these works through THEIR hands

On the other hand you say that you do not know of these miralcles or where they take place

Well did you ever stop and wonder why that is so..................... here is your answer because birds of the same feather........

Luke 13: 18Then said he, Unto what is the kingdom of God like? and whereunto shall I resemble it?

 19It is like a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and cast into his garden; and it grew, and waxed a great tree; and the fowls of the air lodged in the branches of it.

 
Blessings

Doug



Offline Cardinal

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #40 on: June 11, 2009, 07:15:24 PM »

I believe there are levels of opening.  The "Equadistant Letter Sequencing Code" or "The Bible Code" is one very real opening of the book.  To me this is something like a sign proving the world itself is entering into "The Time."  Researchers are convinced there is another code, or even several, that can interact with the ELS Code and open it farther.  Gematria, known for millennia, reveals real patterning but hasn't been made to work with the ELS Code yet.  I do believe I recognize certain raised awareness of what is written among the holy people.  They are getting rid of barriers of false teachings that have been and still are preventing many from entering on into understanding what is in the Book.

 :cloud9: Amen, it is fascinating and HOLY what is being discovered. Blessings.....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Roy Monis

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #41 on: June 11, 2009, 08:48:36 PM »
Quote
The manner that I placed those verses before you was exactly in the manner of Isa. 28 that I spoke of in my first response concerning 1. line upon line 2. precept upon precept ( such as the law I just mentioned that requires every verse pertaining to the subject be considered...... this is part of what guides us towards truth and away from false doctrines). 3. "Here a little and there a little" aka "to and fro" as well as out of" old and new" throughout the Bible that is a mean to an end of how our knowledge is to be obtained and increased in these end times.


Brother Doug.

I have never disagreed with the Scriptures you quoted, now have I? It is the intellectual  interpretation of it that I disagree with. "To whom would He teach knowledge, and to whom would He interpret the message? Those just weaned from milk? Those just taken from the breast? "For He says, 'Order on order, order on order, Line on line, line on line, a little here, a little there.' " Indeed, He will speak to this people through stammering lips and a foreign tongue, He who said to them, "Here is rest, give rest to the weary," And, "Here is repose," but they would not listen. So the word of the Lord to them will be, "Order on order, order on order, line on line, line on line, a little here, a little there,"
That they may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive."
(Isa.28:9-13).

This is God's Holy Word and it is exactly that for me. But who does it apply to? Once again you assume it applies to me and not you. Can you be absolutely sure of that? Because I have my doubts.

Revelation (5:1) I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a book written inside and on the back, sealed up with seven seals. .

The Book has been sealed with seven seals; signs, symbols, metaphors, parables, allegories, examples and visions, all topped with a libral measure of a deluding spirit:"For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness. But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Chrrist. (2 Thess.2:3-14).

Now ask yourself who approaches it like a child: "Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all." (Luke 18:17), and who doesn't: "The heart is more deceitful than all else, and is desperately sick who can understand it?" (Jer.17:9), because "…because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so." (Rom.8:7). Which means that, "There is a way which seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." (Pro.14:12 & 16:25.

Love          :Peace:

Roy   (UK)

Offline Molly

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #42 on: June 11, 2009, 08:55:10 PM »
Quote from: Roy
The Book has been sealed with seven seals; signs, symbols, metaphors, parables, allegories, examples and visions, all topped with a libral measure of a deluding spirit:"

Yes, it's a sealed book--which is why at some point we have to start all over again and learn directly from Him through the eyes of a little child--born again--born from above--because we find out that everything we ever knew was wrong.  (I'm agreeing with you, in other words.)

Matthew 11:29
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2009, 08:58:41 PM by Molly »

Roy Monis

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #43 on: June 11, 2009, 10:25:46 PM »
Quote
Well did you ever stop and wonder why that is so..................... here is your answer because birds of the same feather........

Luke 13: 18Then said he, Unto what is the kingdom of God like? and whereunto shall I resemble it?

 19It is like a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and cast into his garden; and it grew, and waxed a great tree; and the fowls of the air lodged in the branches of it
.

Brother Doug

I gather from the above qoute that you are getting angy and starting to throw trees and birds at me. Don't do that, brother, trees are heavy and birds peck something awful.

But I have just read your response to my reference to the Book sealed with seven seals, and how lovely it is to see you not angry and agreeing that we have to divest ourselves of all our preconceived ideas and values and start as truly Born Again little children of God. That is exactly my point, brother, so please don't get angry with me, as anger is not good and not of God. I am only expressing what the Word of God is saying to me and what I have been trying to put across.

Not very successfully I gather with having birds and trees thrown at me, that's naughty!

By Born Again I don't mean the deplorable exhibitions we see at Evangelical meetings and from podiums where after a parrot fashion recital of some concocted sinners prayer the person is reckoned as saved - born again irrespective of the fact that they are living with someone else's wife or husband or some such scandalous behaviour......idiotic rubbish. 

Love   

Roy    (UK)

Roy Monis

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #44 on: June 11, 2009, 11:06:01 PM »
Quote
Did Jesus go around bragging of miracles ?......... did the apostles?.......... no they did not and neither will those who God chooses to work through today.

Scammers yes but the true person of God is humble and recognizes that it is God working and not them

I know people who have seen the dead raised and healings that could not be done by man but they have yet to ever go and tell people that they have seen these works through THEIR hands

On the other hand you say that you do not know of these miralcles or where they take place

Sorry brother Doug.

But I'm having to answer your post in several separate small posts.

I woudn't dare say that my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ went round bragging and boasting. And I didn't, now did I? So why say it? I said He did everything in open public view and the record is of healings and miracles that occurred during our Lord's and the Apostles' life time, there is a big difference between the two statements.

On the other hand I have to be quite honest and say that I have not seen anyone raise the dead or permanently heal the cronically sick. You are indeed blessed in that respect, but I live a very secluded life style and don't have the opportunity to see such marvels being incapacitated and housebound. I am aware of the money grabbing scandalous perfomances of the Benny Hinn culture that is presently rife, but that doesn't impress me one bit. I am not alone, God is my life, if you follow what I mean: "Behold, an hour is coming, and has already come, for you to be scattered, each to his own home, and to leave Me alone; and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me." (Jn. 16:32)

Love 

Roy    (UK)

Roy Monis

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #45 on: June 11, 2009, 11:24:12 PM »
Quote
Yes, it's a sealed book--which is why at some point we have to start all over again and learn directly from Him through the eyes of a little child--born again--born from above--because we find out that everything we ever knew was wrong.  (I'm agreeing with you, in other words.)

Thank you Molly bless you.

It is so very difficult to put these things in words, I just pray when I sit down to answer the posts that not my hand but His mighty hand will take over the key board and convey the message. It has to be left to the Spirit, man alone cannot and will not be able to do it.

Molly, from what I gather from your posts you have read and reread the Holy Scriptures several times over like I have, so I'd like to ask you if you'd do me a favour and try my new posting titled "The River of Life."

Love 

Roy   (UK)

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #46 on: June 11, 2009, 11:39:38 PM »
Quote
Did Jesus go around bragging of miracles ?......... did the apostles?.......... no they did not and neither will those who God chooses to work through today.

Scammers yes but the true person of God is humble and recognizes that it is God working and not them

I know people who have seen the dead raised and healings that could not be done by man but they have yet to ever go and tell people that they have seen these works through THEIR hands

On the other hand you say that you do not know of these miralcles or where they take place

Sorry brother Doug.

But I'm having to answer your post in several separate small posts.

I woudn't dare say that my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ went round bragging and boasting. And I didn't, now did I? So why say it? I said He did everything in open public view and the record is of healings and miracles that occurred during our Lord's and the Apostles' life time, there is a big difference between the two statements.

On the other hand I have to be quite honest and say that I have not seen anyone raise the dead or permanently heal the cronically sick. You are indeed blessed in that respect, but I live a very secluded life style and don't have the opportunity to see such marvels being incapacitated and housebound. I am aware of the money grabbing scandalous perfomances of the Benny Hinn culture that is presently rife, but that doesn't impress me one bit. I am not alone, God is my life, if you follow what I mean: "Behold, an hour is coming, and has already come, for you to be scattered, each to his own home, and to leave Me alone; and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me." (Jn. 16:32)

Love 

Roy    (UK)

 :cloud9: Hi Roy.......brother, I have been to 6 Benny Hinn crusades at the LORD's direction for various reasons both to give and to receive (I was healed at one), and while it is arguably no better or no worse than most of what you see in churchianity, one fact remains; you get 20,000 - 200,000 people in one spot praying and asking for the Lord to move, and I guarantee you, HE HEARD THAT (united) PRAYER. Blessings....

"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

martincisneros

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #47 on: June 12, 2009, 12:03:39 AM »
Actually, brother Roy, the only money grubbers are the ones who told you that about Benny.  I've experienced the lightnings of God several times through Benny's television broadcast (a most satisfactory and cleansing series of multiple experiences, I should say!!), and had a much, much richer prayer anointing after leaving one of his miracle crusades in my area.  I even found fasting to be much easier for a season after that.  Of course I'd differ with him theologically on quite a few matters as a Universalist, Postmillenialist, and a few other things I cherish and nourish my spirit on from the Written Word.  You don't have to agree with half of what anyone believes to spend enough time in fasting and prayer until you perceive the grace of God at work in someone either with them personally or their ministry.  Biblically, if he were an enemy of the Cross of Christ, that would have increased rather than diminished your spiritual responsibilities towards him.  And those wouldn't include risking crossing the line in touching God's anointed.  David repented of having cut Saul's garment simply because he had been God's anointed even though he wasn't any longer.  Better to give the wrong man a break than to break the wrong man.

Roy Monis

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #48 on: June 12, 2009, 01:44:05 PM »
Brother Martin

I get your point brother and I apologize for my judgmental attitude but it was simply based on an interview I saw him give on TV. He was sat at a table while someone was giving him a run-down on the latest donations being received. The whole interview centred on the money coming in and I mean it was in the thousands of dollars in some cases.

When he was questioned about the lavish mansion he was building and who was going to live in it, he remarked "My family and I will be keeping it warm for when our big brother, Jesus comes." How sick can that be? I nearly spewed, believe me. And then waving his coat and saying receive the Holy Spirit from the podium as some in the audience fell on their backs in hysteria. The only reference I can find in my Bible of someone falling on their back at the presence of the Holy Spirit was poor old Eli who - DIED. The rest of the encounters with the Holy Spirit caused people to fall flat of their faces, regardless of damaging their fine looks.

If I'm wrong then I sincerely apologize and ask God to forgive my judgmental attitude. I have seen on TV people arguably cured but the same people when interviewed months later were found to be no better than they were before being, so-called, cured.

But this is moving into a direction of personal opinions right or wrong and one I don't wish to be involved in because as far as I'm concerned we are all brothers in Christ Jesus and as such we will all eventuially end up in the same place: "Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. I have sworn by Myself, the word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness and will not turn back, that to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance. They will say of Me, 'Only in the Lord are righteousness and strength.' Men will come to Him, and all who were angry at Him will be put to shame." (Isa.45:22-24)

Love

Roy    (UK)

PS  I am not yet totally humbled, brother, I still retain some of my preconceived ideas and values of the past when INTELLECT ruled my life. It took that mighty man of God - Moses - forty years roaming in the wilderness tending his father-in-law's flock before God finally humbled him to the point of acceptance like a child. By that measure, at 89 years, I don't stand much of a chance. But God is good and one can never tell. Moses was eighty, if you recall, when God called him. Nothing is impossible for our Almighty God. And the LORD said to Abraham, "Why did Sarah laugh, saying, 'Shall I indeed bear a child, when I am so old?' "Is anything too difficult for the LORD? At the appointed time I will return to you, at this time next year, and Sarah will have a son."  (Gen.18:13-14).

Roy Monis

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Re: Dan.12:4
« Reply #49 on: June 12, 2009, 03:06:48 PM »
 
Quote
Hi Roy.......brother, I have been to 6 Benny Hinn crusades at the LORD's direction for various reasons both to give and to receive (I was healed at one), and while it is arguably no better or no worse than most of what you see in churchianity, one fact remains; you get 20,000 - 200,000 people in one spot praying and asking for the Lord to move, and I guarantee you, HE HEARD THAT (united) PRAYER. Blessings

Brother Cardinal

I am overjoyed by your experience and healing. But, brother your healing was of faith and of God, give God the credit for it. You would have received it at home in your sitting room if you had asked for it with the same faith that you placed in Benny Hinn. Benny Hinn had nothing to do with it. Your trust in God was your healing card please believe me. And Jesus stopped and commanded that he be brought to Him; and when he came near, He questioned him, "What do you want Me to do for you?" And he said, "Lord, I want to regain my sight!" And Jesus said to him, "Receive your sight; your faith has made you well." (Luke 18:40-42).

I personally have never asked for healing but in times of serious crisis, which we all experience in the course of our life, I have on several occasions asked for help. And I can, hand on heart, say quite honestly, that it has never as yet been refused though not always in the way I would have liked it. In two cases miracles would be a better way to describe it, as it had nothing to do with man or of this world.

I have nothing against Benny Hinn, he is a lovable fellow and one of God's children just like you and I, and I love him but not his ministry. If you recall, Jesus said:   "And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. Freely you received, freely give. Do not acquire gold, or silver, or copper for your money belts, or a bag for your journey, or even two coats, or sandals, or a staff; for the worker is worthy of his support (Matt.10:7-10).

Now my brother without being judgmental ask yourself. How many sandals has Benny, or for that matter those of his ilk, worn out in their loxury limousines? How many coats have they worn out in their designer outfits? How empty are their money bags with the millions people send in response to their appeals? How many staffs have they needed in his executive jets? How much have they given freely other than what they ask for and sometimes demand, to be given to them (God) freely regardless of ones means? After answering these questions please feel free to come back to me.

Love 

Roy    (UK)