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Offline WhiteWings

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Baked with leaven
« on: October 26, 2011, 02:45:32 PM »
ACVLev 2
11 No meal-offering, which ye shall offer to LORD, shall be made with leaven, for ye shall burn no leaven, nor any honey, as an offering made by fire to LORD.

ACVLev 23
16 Ye shall number fifty days, even to the morrow after the seventh Sabbath, and ye shall offer a new meal-offering to LORD.
17 Ye shall bring out of your habitations two wave-loaves of two tenth parts [of an ephah]. They shall be of fine flour. They shall be baked with leaven, for first-fruits to LORD.

Leaven represents sin and is required for the Pentecost offer but forbidden for all other offerings.
One tenth refers to a tithe?



ACVMatt 13
33 He spoke another parable to them. The kingdom of the heavens is like leaven, which having taken, a woman hid in three measures of meal until it was all leavened.

The signs for Saul becoming king:

ACV1Sam 10
3 Then thou shall go on forward from there, and thou shall come to the oak of Tabor. And there shall meet thee there three men going up to God to Bethel, one carrying three kids, and another carrying three loaves of bread, and anothe
4 And they will salute thee, and give thee two loaves of bread, which thou shall receive from their hand.


Who or what do the two/three loaves represent?

Toughts?  :bgdance:


1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline sheila

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Re: Baked with leaven
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2011, 09:29:09 PM »
PERTAINING TO SIGNS FOR sAUL,AFTER SAMUEL ANNOINTED HIM.   THREE MEN GOING UP TO GOD...REPRESENTS ENOCH,ELIJAH AND CHRIST.AS THREE

  THAT ASCENDED ALIVE TO HEAVEN.[ALSO ELIJAH,MOSES AND CHRIST ON MOUNT OF TRANSFIGURATION.] TWO LOAVES SAUL WAS TO RECEIVE ,AND

 ACCEPT=PROPHETS,LAW[FOR JESUS HADN'T BEEN GLORIFIED YET,]TO MEET A PROCESSION OF PROPHETS COMING DOWN FROM GOD..

   [the procession of prophets culminate with John the Baptist bearing wittness to Jesus Christ/please note  the ascending to God and descending pattern]

      The spirit of the Lord will come upon you in power[holy spirit,3rd loaf] AND YOU WILL PROPHESY WITH THEM AND YOU WILL BE CHANGED INTO

  ADIFFERENT PERSON,    ONCE THESE SIGNS ARE FULFILLED...DO WHATEVER YOUR HAND FINDS TO DO,FOR GOD IS WITH YOU

   

Offline Taffy

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Re: Baked with leaven
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2011, 09:39:12 PM »
PERTAINING TO SIGNS FOR sAUL,AFTER SAMUEL ANNOINTED HIM.   THREE MEN GOING UP TO GOD...REPRESENTS ENOCH,ELIJAH AND CHRIST.AS THREE

  THAT ASCENDED ALIVE TO HEAVEN.[ALSO ELIJAH,MOSES AND CHRIST ON MOUNT OF TRANSFIGURATION.] TWO LOAVES SAUL WAS TO RECEIVE ,AND

 ACCEPT=PROPHETS,LAW[FOR JESUS HADN'T BEEN GLORIFIED YET,]TO MEET A PROCESSION OF PROPHETS COMING DOWN FROM GOD..

   [the procession of prophets culminate with John the Baptist bearing wittness to Jesus Christ/please note  the ascending to God and descending pattern]

      The spirit of the Lord will come upon you in power[holy spirit,3rd loaf] AND YOU WILL PROPHESY WITH THEM AND YOU WILL BE CHANGED INTO

  ADIFFERENT PERSON,    ONCE THESE SIGNS ARE FULFILLED...DO WHATEVER YOUR HAND FINDS TO DO,FOR GOD IS WITH YOU

   
:icon_flower:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Baked with leaven
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2011, 10:16:02 PM »
PERTAINING TO SIGNS FOR sAUL,AFTER SAMUEL ANNOINTED HIM.   THREE MEN GOING UP TO GOD...REPRESENTS ENOCH,ELIJAH AND CHRIST.AS THREE

  THAT ASCENDED ALIVE TO HEAVEN.[ALSO ELIJAH,MOSES AND CHRIST ON MOUNT OF TRANSFIGURATION.] TWO LOAVES SAUL WAS TO RECEIVE ,AND

 ACCEPT=PROPHETS,LAW[FOR JESUS HADN'T BEEN GLORIFIED YET,]
But the Pentecost after Jesus died there where still two loaves of bread. Not three....?



I've read two other interpretations. A simple one and a more complex one.

#1
The simple one is that has two variations.
a] The two loaves are Christianity and Judaism.
b] One loaf reprints the high priest(s) <--- this loaf is presented by one person.  The other loaf is presented by a group of persons representing teh Jewish nation is a nation of priests.

#2
A more complex pattern but worth your time I think.
The loaves presents the number of millenia the church has.
Three were planned but shorted to two millenia. There is a link between king Saul and Saul/Paul.
It's also about resurrection and how seemingly diffrent days are actually the same.
Day 1 is day 7. Day 8 is day 1. Saturday Sabbath is Sunday Sabbath. 2000=3000 etc

Main article  --> A sub-article you must read for better understanding of overlapping days
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline sheila

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Re: Baked with leaven
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2011, 10:26:32 PM »
 Hi ww,

    I just read it and spoke of what pattern I saw,off the top of my head.

    law/moses[1]loaf prophets[1 loaf] Christ=one with law=fulfilled....1 with grace fulfilled...through spirit.   spirit =leavenen...whether of the Pharisees of Christ

    Power come on Saul after he received to loaves

    I see the patterns in the other interpretations,too

Offline Taffy

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Re: Baked with leaven
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2011, 10:31:17 PM »
Quote
    I see the patterns in the other interpretations,too
:icon_flower:

two Or three witnessess~Amen~
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Baked with leaven
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2011, 07:34:33 AM »
law/moses[1]loaf prophets[1 loaf] Christ=one with law=fulfilled....1 with grace fulfilled...through spirit.   spirit =leavenen...whether of the Pharisees of Christ
I find that hard to believe Sheila.
Jesus represented by leaven? Spirit=leaven?
Leaven eqauls sin? Lev 2:11 shows God doesn't accept leavened products.
In the whole Bible leaven basicly equals an insult, imperfection and sin.
Yet, the 2 of the greatest/purest spiritual powers (Jesus, HS) of the universe are represented by leaven?
Please explain  :thumbsup:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline sheila

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Re: Baked with leaven
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2011, 02:29:43 PM »
 ww........you can be raised up in Christ or raised up in pride like Pharisees?   the kingdom of heaven is like a woman who took a measure of levening and hid

  it in a bowl of flour, until the whole bowl of flour was leavened.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Baked with leaven
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2011, 03:27:23 PM »
I still don't understand...


Lev 2:11 No meal-offering, which ye shall offer to LORD, shall be made with leaven, for ye shall burn no leaven, nor any honey, as an offering made by fire to LORD.

God doesn't accept leaven but on Pentecost leavened loafs are offered.
But basicly you are saying there is good and bad leaven?

1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline sheila

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Re: Baked with leaven
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2011, 04:14:06 PM »
yes,

   Here's how I see it. Picture a scale with a lump of flour of equal measures....one lump leavened with sin...=all died in Adam...

   the other[balance] one lump raised with leaven of Christ[all died in Adam raised in Christ= perfect justice and mercy of God...

    an aside........leavening can symbolize anything or one that comes between creator and creation. Ex; when Israel demanded a king like the nations

   around them and God in His anger,over their rejection of Him,gave them one. Or like the people saying Moses to speak to them and not God.

   Jesus Christ as mediator of the New covenant...to bring us back to Father.

      God's relationship with His creation is like unleavened bread...one on one intimate relationship.   when sin entered it parted/breached that

   and when Christ entered He stood in the breach.     [love is a perfect bond of union/Jesus love for the Father,and Father's love for him,Jesus love for mankind/

   as His Fathers  becomes the glue[ten] of the bread of life and living bread.]    Restored relationship between any man and God is unleavened bread[sincereity]

      also,you can licken one loaf of leaven bread,leavened with sin....and one loaf leavened with Christ=two loaves of leavened bread,as you know,

   the showbread of His presence[God dwelling with men] is unleavened loaves[12] shaped in cubes[squares/like foundation stones of Jerusalem above]

     He who has the son has the Father.

      John 16;26  in that day you will ask in my name,I AM NOT SAYING THAT I WILL ASK THE FATHER ON YOUR BEHALF.NO,THE FATHER HIMSELF LOVES YOU

   BECAUSE YOU HAVE LOVED ME AND BELEIVED THAT I COME FROM GOD.

      good leaven and evil leaven[only GOD IS GOOD]

Offline sheila

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Re: Baked with leaven
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2011, 04:42:56 PM »
p.s.


     I just read an article # hope of Israel.org about showbread....that says showbread was problably leavened........I can't get into it all now,

    but this matter needs looking into and fine descernment to 'rightly' divide.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Baked with leaven
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2011, 06:19:12 PM »
ḥāmēṣ. Leaven, leavened bread. This is the primary word for food which is in process of fermenting or has fermented. Normally, it is limited to the grain foods: wheat, barley, and spelt. In the Old Testament these grains are theologically significant because when ground and mixed with yeast, their use is prohibited in certain religious activities. In the discussion of the verb form, it was noted that anyone who ate leavened bread during the passover could be excommunicated. The noun is used in this context (Ex 12:15) and reference is made in Ex 13:3, 7 that no leavened bread is permitted in house or on table during the Passover because of the Exodus event and God's act of bringing the Hebrews out of Egypt quickly (see also Deut 16:3).
Leavened bread was also prohibited in connection with the offering of sacrifices involving blood (Ex 23:18; 34:25). Neither it nor honey could be burned with a meal offering (Lev 2:11) and it cannot be baked with the fire offering (Lev 6:15). But leavened bread could be eaten with the thank-offering (Lev 7:13; Amos 4:5) and with the firstfruit offerings (Lev 23:17).
In later Jewish thought leavened bread became a symbol of corruption and impurity, as also in Jesus' teachings (Mt 16:2; Mk 8:15) and in one remark by Paul in I Cor 5:8.


So according to TWOT there are different rules for sacrife and thank offerings.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 06:39:30 PM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Baked with leaven
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2011, 06:51:10 PM »
This article takes an opposite approach. If leaven isn't mentioned it isn't in the loaf.
http://www.stempublishing.com/magazines/cf/1879/The-Table-of-Showbread.html


Neither it nor honey could be burned with a meal offering (Lev 2:11) and it (leaven) cannot be baked with the fire offering (Lev 6:15).

"And thou shalt put pure frankincense upon each row, that it may be on the bread for a memorial, even an offering made by fire unto the Lord." (Lev. 24: 7.)
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Nathan

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Re: Baked with leaven
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2011, 11:06:15 PM »
I still don't understand...


Lev 2:11 No meal-offering, which ye shall offer to LORD, shall be made with leaven, for ye shall burn no leaven, nor any honey, as an offering made by fire to LORD.

God doesn't accept leaven but on Pentecost leavened loafs are offered.
But basicly you are saying there is good and bad leaven?

Leaven in the natural is connected to that of the flesh, mainly pride.
Leaven in the spiritual is connected to that which "ascends" which is the active ingredient to what the Holy Spirit does in us.  When we try to raise ourselves up in this realm, the result is pride.  But when we "decrease" our "self" that "he" may increase in us, we are then resurrected up with him where he "is". 

It just depends from which dimension you choose to look at it.

Offline Taffy

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Re: Baked with leaven
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2011, 11:11:20 PM »
I still don't understand...


Lev 2:11 No meal-offering, which ye shall offer to LORD, shall be made with leaven, for ye shall burn no leaven, nor any honey, as an offering made by fire to LORD.

God doesn't accept leaven but on Pentecost leavened loafs are offered.
But basicly you are saying there is good and bad leaven?
uts the continual Division of the natural to the Spiritual~

Leaven in the natural is connected to that of the flesh, mainly pride.
Leaven in the spiritual is connected to that which "ascends" which is the active ingredient to what the Holy Spirit does in us.  When we try to raise ourselves up in this realm, the result is pride.  But when we "decrease" our "self" that "he" may increase in us, we are then resurrected up with him where he "is". 

It just depends from which dimension you choose to look at it.
t5he need again to Divide~the natural from the Above~
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 11:44:45 PM by Taffy »
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Baked with leaven
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2011, 11:10:31 PM »
ww........you can be raised up in Christ or raised up in pride like Pharisees?   the kingdom of heaven is like a woman who took a measure of levening and hid

  it in a bowl of flour, until the whole bowl of flour was leavened.

(John 6:35) Jesus said to them, I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will, no, not hunger, and he who believes in me will, no, not ever thirst.
(Matthew 26:26) And as they were eating, Jesus, having taken bread, having expressed thanks, broke in pieces, and he gave to the disciples, and said, Take, eat, this is my body.

ἄρτος
artos

Thayer Definition:
1) food composed of flour mixed with water and baked
1a) the Israelites made it in the form of an oblong or round cake, as thick as one's thumb, and as large as a plate or platter hence it was not to be cut but broken
1b) loaves were consecrated to the Lord
1c) of the bread used at the love-feasts and at the Lord's Table
2) food of any kind

Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: from G142

αἴρω
airō

Thayer Definition:
1) to raise up, elevate, lift up
1a) to raise from the ground, take up: stones
1b) to raise upwards, elevate, lift up: the hand
1c) to draw up: a fish
2) to take upon one's self and carry what has been raised up, to bear
3) to bear away what has been raised, carry off
3a) to move from its place
3b) to take off or away what is attached to anything
3c) to remove
3d) to carry off, carry away with one
3e) to appropriate what is taken
3f) to take away from another what is his or what is committed to him, to take by force
3g) to take and apply to any use
3h) to take from among the living, either by a natural death, or by violence
3i) cause to cease



(Matthew 26:17) Now on the first day of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying, Where do thou want that we should prepare for thee to eat the Passover?
(Luke 22:7) And the day of unleavened bread came during which it was necessary to kill the Passover.

Unleaved bread comes from a single Greek word.

ἄζυμος
azumos

Thayer Definition:
1) unfermented, free from leaven or yeast
1a) of the unleavened loaves used in the paschal feast of the Jews

1b) metaphorically free from faults or the "leaven of iniquity"
Part of Speech: adjective
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: from G1 (as a negative particle) and G2219
Citing in TDNT: 2:902, 302

So.... unleavend bread (azumos) contains no leaven as you may have guessed  :winkgrin:
All other bread (artos) is regular every day bread. Regular  bread contains leaven as the root of artos shows. Air0 = to raise
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Taffy

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Re: Baked with leaven
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2011, 11:21:36 PM »
Beware the LEVEN of the Pharisees~ agh    :sigh: Their Very Pride and Knowledge in the scrips and the Letter,the Knowledge which Paul says PUFFS up~ Unlike the LIGHT[ Revelation\Love] OF KNOWLEDGE~ HE who IS IN us , the LIFE of LOVE~ such is the TRUE Bread of Life, The kingdom and its FULNESS~ :icon_flower: SHALOM~
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Baked with leaven
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2011, 11:30:45 PM »
 :mblush: Forgot to make my point  :mshock:

Jesus calls Himself leavened bread.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2011, 11:35:42 PM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Molly

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Re: Baked with leaven
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2011, 11:34:03 PM »
He answered, "Haven't you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry?

He went into the house of God, and he and his companions broke the law by eating the sacred loaves of bread that only the priests are allowed to eat.

--Mat 12:3,4


David ate the [leavened] shewbread when he was hungry which was unlawful for him to do.  Yet, David was a holy man.

The shewbread is leavened.   The leavening of Christ is the Holy Spirit.

Offline Taffy

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Re: Baked with leaven
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2011, 11:49:20 PM »
:mblush: Forgot o make my point  :mshock:

Jesus calls Himself leavened bread.
Being an ex MASTER BAKER [ Business owner] Bread is My forte WW, SUCH are its Ingredients, Yeast Salt flour and water, OIL~ Each have an effect on the LOAF~
 Christ IS THE LEVEN, of  the Kingdom, the yeast, altho SALT has the controlling effect, too much SALT kills the LOAF, not enough Kills it also~~~ Oil LUBRICATES THE GLUTEN which is THE PROTIEN IN THE flour WHEN WATER IS ADDED , THE GLUTEN IS PERFECTED BY mIXING~ TOO MUCH, OVER DEVELOPMENT, NOT ENOUGH,the type like The Home made Mum normally makes, all doughy and stunted

THE Gluten IS hidden in the Flour until water is added ,its is the very structure of the LOAF being the substance of the BREAD when BAKED throu the FLAME~ a Certain Temp is required to ensure the Gluten doesnt Collapse during baking~~~and much much More :thumbsup:

ya Know Never ARM wrestle a Baker~ They Have Hands of IRON~ lol~ :laughing7:

« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 12:05:36 AM by Taffy »
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Baked with leaven
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2011, 12:45:31 AM »
ya Know Never ARM wrestle a Baker~ They Have Hands of IRON~ lol~ :laughing7:
And wrists of rubber. Bring it on dude!
BTW Margret was a baker too  :winkgrin:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...