An ET question.

[fullarmor2]

    Has anyone else noticed this inconsistency.  ET'ers  who believe eternal life can be lost,  do not believe eternal punishment can be lost.   It seems to me that both would be conditional and would depend on how a person responds to God's will.

[hopeful]

Never thought about that one! 

[SLN]

I believe their take on it is that you only get a chance in this life. Eternal damnaton is the default setting, so there's no way to lose it. Eternal bliss is a gift you can take, then turn your back on. This would automatically put you back to the default setting of eternal damnation.

When playing by their rules, it's not inconsistant. 

[fullarmor2]

    Good point.

[Sarah]

Hell by default...and they call Him benevolent?

[Gizmo]

Has anyone else noticed this inconsistency.  ET'ers  who believe eternal life can be lost,  do not believe eternal punishment can be lost.   It seems to me that both would be conditional and would depend on how a person responds to God's will.

The gospel is completely unmerited forgiveness.  God was in Christ reconciling the WORLD, all of us whether we believe or not.  Christianity teaches merited forgivess...IF you believe, THEN you are forgiven.  They don't see the yeast of the Pharisees in the core of their doctrine.  The yeast of legalism bakes some pretty inconsistent bread!!!

Giz

[fullarmor2]

The gospel is completely unmerited forgiveness.  God was in Christ reconciling the WORLD, all of us whether we believe or not.  Christianity teaches merited forgivess...IF you believe, THEN you are forgiven.  They don't see the yeast of the Pharisees in the core of their doctrine.  The yeast of legalism bakes some pretty inconsistent bread!!!

    I agree.  What I'm referring to is people's response to what God has done for us. If we respond appropriately we experience life and liberty. Here and in the next life.  If we do not respond right, depending to what extent,  we don't experience it until we are corrected and restored.  It just does not make sense for folks to recognize that persons  can lose their liberty by rebelling,  But those who get incarcerated for rebelling cannot be restored.?  If rebelling gets you incarcerated,  repenting and receiving correction will get you restored,  all according to justice.

[Gizmo]

Fullarmor2-

In my understanding, the only way to "rebel" is to go back under works, to set up our own righteousness before God.  It's the "Jesus, and..." message of Christianity.

I don't see out of control behavior as being "rebellious" against God, since the law which works wrath is no longer counted against anyone.  Those actions may not be beneficial, but I can think of many times when "acting right" isn't beneficial for a person too.

Thanks,
Giz

[studier]

Has anyone else noticed this inconsistency.  ET'ers  who believe eternal life can be lost,  do not believe eternal punishment can be lost.   It seems to me that both would be conditional and would depend on how a person responds to God's will.

Hahaha, yes indeed. I addressed this inconsistancy, a paradox of reason, back when I was in Bible School and I even wrote a sermon on it to conclude that eternal life could never be lost. Thus, establishing once saved, always saved doctrine. Though, since Universal Salvation was never in mind during that study, the path to that understanding was closed to me.

[Average_Bear]

.... ET'ers  who believe eternal life can be lost,  do not believe eternal punishment can be lost.   It seems to me that both would be conditional and would depend on how a person responds to God's will.

ET is loaded with inconsistencies. i.e.
His love endures forever         His merciless torture endures forever
Jesus loves you                        Only if you love him more
Jesus died for your sins           But if you don't receive him the right way, you will have to pay an even greater                                   
                                                     price
I could list a hundred more, but I have to go bake some fish.

[jabcat]

I was raised right in the middle of these teachings, in small Pentecostal churches, and you better believe "Hell" is the default setting.  Not only so, but you might lose your salvation any moment of any day, all based upon your works (after you "get saved" the right way), but then it's up to you...and watch out, or you'll split hell wide open.  The "sermons" I've heard..wow...That was such a tenuous position, I swung the other way, spending the last 25+ years of my life in the Baptist denomination, in which they believe the once saved always saved doctrine..just resigned from that denomination, but sure believe closer to their doctrine, at least that God will keep His hand on us/stay after us (redeeming us/perseverence of the saints/He knows how to fix us) and not toss us into some eternal place of torment if we somehow step out of line...Still, even with the Baptists, doomed for Hell is still the default setting, but they believe in a more sure escape than some sects...

[CHB]

Hi jabcat,

Do you know of any Baptist denominations who believe in The salvation of all?
Am curious.

CHB

[jabcat]

Hi jabcat,

Do you know of any Baptist denominations who believe in The salvation of all?
Am curious.

CHB

No, not a one.  Not saying they don't exist, but I've sure never run across one.  What I've found is they're more likely to be dividing within each other over other "Baptist-type" issues, such as predestination, traditional vs. contemporary, conservative vs. "liberal", etc., you know, all those important, crucial doctrinal issues   I do know one really cool old Baptist preacher fellow who I cautiously stuck a hook out at wrt UR, and he made a statement of "when it's all said and done, God's going to bring them all in".  However, he went on to say something like "only those few who absolutely choose to go to hell will be there", so go figure...to quote Maxwell Smart, "missed it by that much"...God's blessing.

[hopeful]

I know there is at least one Primitive Baptist Church that believes- don't know if it's all of them though.

[97531]

Well the Baptist have it right in a way, we are all doomed to hell, it is the default setting.  Problem is, there is NO ESCAPE.

Clue - Grave

Blessings

[CHB]

I know there is at least one Primitive Baptist Church that believes- don't know if it's all of them though.

Really? That is interesting, I will have to check this out. There are so many different beliefs within the Baptist denominations. I see so many different names like, Free Will Baptist, First Baptist, Second Baptist, Independant Baptist. I could go on and on. I wonder what each one believes that the other one doesn't. Probably something silly seperates them all.  There are lots of Baptist Churches where I live and not one person that I know of who believes in the salvation of all.

CHB

[hopeful]

Let's see...  Here's what I remember- whether or not it's acurate, I don't know.

There is a book called Sinners in the hands of A Happy God- and it was written by a Primitive Baptist minister in WV.  As I looked into it, it seems like his congregation was of like mind with him.  I found all this on the Internet.

Also, I had a mid- wife who was Primitive Baptist and all I remember is that they only met once a month and when they did it was an all day event.

[jabcat]

I know there is at least one Primitive Baptist Church that believes- don't know if it's all of them though.

Really? That is interesting, I will have to check this out. There are so many different beliefs within the Baptist denominations. I see so many different names like, Free Will Baptist, First Baptist, Second Baptist, Independant Baptist. I could go on and on. I wonder what each one believes that the other one doesn't. Probably something silly seperates them all.  There are lots of Baptist Churches where I live and not one person that I know of who believes in the salvation of all.

CHB

Well, I can offer a few bit of info, and yes, that's part of my concern, the divisions/dividing the body of Christ.  I'm believing membership is based on belief in (from) the Savior, not based on denomination.  Anyway Free Will Baptist = you can lose your salvation, as opposed to Southern or Missionary Baptist = once save always saved.  First Baptist (believe it or not) = the first organized Baptist congregation in whatever community. Independent Baptist = not a member of the Southern Baptist Convention, ans usually much more legalistic (short hair for men, dresses for women, only piano/organ in services, hymns not choruses, etc.  General Baptist = their own organization apart from Southern B., generally a little more emotional/loosely structured services, American Baptist = their own organization, seen (by the SBC) as being more liberal, i.e., women pastors, more accepting of homosexuals, etc.  Actually, I don't know much about Primitives...but I'll check out the group mentioned as possibly UR...Thanks, God's blessing, James.

[CHB]

Thanks for that information James. Isn't it funny, the crazy things that keep brothers apart?

I don't know if there is a Primitive Baptist Church in my area or not, I will have to keep an eye out for one.

CHB

[jabcat]

Thanks for that information James. Isn't it funny, the crazy things that keep brothers apart?

Amazing, and I've been like many, just trooping merrily along...

[gr8wuf]

I was raised right in the middle of these teachings, in small Pentecostal churches, and you better believe "Hell" is the default setting.  Not only so, but you might lose your salvation any moment of any day, all based upon your works (after you "get saved" the right way), but then it's up to you...and watch out, or you'll split hell wide open.  The "sermons" I've heard..wow...

I spent 11 years in this same setting, trying to toe the line, always failing. Developed an inner attitude of defiance against the altar calls and decided I would NEVER participate in a Sunday night altar call only to fail again Monday morning. What horrible bondage I was under. Never free to be me and experience God's love.

I thank God he wrapped himself around me and forced me elsewhere.

[jabcat]

It's been a long journey out, over many years, but the revelation of UR a year ago was more of a "giant step" along the way...sort of a, "wow, things sure make a lot more sense".