2 witnesses - 144.000 - 72.000 - 72

[Nathan]

The first question that screams out in me is "Who taught you that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the two witnesses?"

The reason I ask is not because I disagree . . but because I see the exact same as you.  I believe that all of you that have shared this have had the same experience as I, it's not something you read out of a book or commentary . .but it's something the Father has "revealed" to your spirit and your mind has been able to see it as well . . .praise God for those with eyes and can see . .and those with ears and can hear!!!


Reformer, Cardinal and Shiela . . .wonderful posts!!!!  There is a great resonation coming from what you've written.

Just an outside comment to the very last verse you quoted Reformer . . there is another Scripture that says where two or three agree on any one thing . . .the word "agree" actually speaks of "coming into harmony".  When we sing . . .as these posts are doing . . .when we sing together in harmony, the will of the Father manifests in us, in the posts, and in those who read them.

I'm a tenor.

[Cardinal]

   Nathan.......You should enjoy this comment about singing. Years ago, I asked the Lord what the "new song" was we were going to sing.

He said, "To sing means to RAISE the voice", ie. resurrected out of speaking out of that which is corruptible, and into that which is of the NEW creation. Blessings...

[Nathan]

  Nathan.......You should enjoy this comment about singing. Years ago, I asked the Lord what the "new song" was we were going to sing.

He said, "To sing means to RAISE the voice", ie. resurrected out of speaking out of that which is corruptible, and into that which is of the NEW creation. Blessings...

Wow . . so singing is when you enter into the upper room and go dimensional!!  An ascended voice of truth pouring out into the fields of men . . .sounds good to me!!

[Cardinal]

  Well, what you got is truth too,    but I need to rephrase what I said.

What He dropped into my spirit with wisdom was closer to this; resurrected out of speaking out of the realm of corruption (carnal mind), to speaking out of the realm of incorruption (mind of Christ).

Sometimes you just can't say what you want to say, with one try.  Blessings....

[SPOKENFOR]

While I generally agree Nathan, I try it out in other ways too, always seeking to have an open ear.  One thing I figured out a few years ago was if there would come to be 144,000 people walking on the earth as Jesus walked, functioning in an hundredfold anointing...consider them evenly distributed over the whole earth according to population numbers in various countries.  That would put something like 12,000 of them in the USA.  Should that ever occur, things would never be the same again.  Somehow we are looking for something like that to happen, the manifestation of the sons of God, sons being huis, mature inheritors standing in the full right of the family name "Jesus," the name to which all is subject.

Hi Reformer...This is exactly what I believe it to be and some insight to my question. .......

[SPOKENFOR]

The two witnesses are suppose to be killed and resurrected? mmm.........

[Nathan]

Revelation 1:1
1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John
The book is an unveiling of Jesus.  His natures, his purposes, his personalities. 

The purpose of the book being revealed and written was to show the servants of God things that were SHORTLY to come . . shortly . . .not 2000 years after the fact . . .

And lastly and most importantly, the things John was about to see were sent and "signified" . . .they were in signs .  . . they were not in literal wording, and they were not to be "interpreted".  But they were to be "translated". 

1 Peter 1
20 Above all, you must realize that no prophecy in Scripture ever came from the prophet's own understanding,[h] 21 or from human initiative. No, those prophets were moved by the Holy Spirit, and they spoke from God

A translation is overlaying a message with a pattern, a blue print, a principle . . .using Scripture to interpret Scripture is not really interpreting as much as it is translating . . .

By that I mean, God orginally established blueprints of things that were connected to the nature of Jesus . . .everything is connected to Jesus . . .the tabernacle of Moses is a huge one . . . Noah's ark is another, the ark Moses was hidden in . . .even David and Goliath . . .every story has an inward revelation applicable to one's "self". 

Right now I'm preaching through Samson . . .it's amazing to see the things emerge when you begin looking at them from a totally different perspective.  The simplest comparisons of patterns unlocks a whole other realm of truth.  Hair, for instance is the covering of ones mind . . . each strand of hair represents each single thought within one's mind . . .some people's minds are much like hair styles . . .I've always thought it amusing to see the "fashion" for a trendy guy is to have his hair messed up on purpose, and then moosed so that it will stay messed up . . .

But when you start meditating on simple little things like that . .so many other things begin to unlock.  You can't stop a bird from flying over your "head" but you can keep him from making a nest in your "hair".  Your head is your mind, your hair is your thoughts.  The bird is an unclean thing . . .or it is a clean thing, depending on the context of your situation. 

Because you can't keep unclean thoughts from passing through your mind . .but you can keep that unclean though from accumulating with other unclean thoughts and making a home in your thinking.

It's very much connected to when Eve ate of the tree and nothing happened . . .but when she gave to Adam . . the world went into disarray.  Eve is your mind, Adam is your spirit . . .when your mind eats of the things of the flesh . .when ungodly thoughts enter in, nothing happens because authority was not given to the mind of man, but to the spirit of man.  When man acts on an ungodly thought, it is evidence that man submitted his spirit to his mind and the body follows which ever one we give authority to.

It's all symbolic . . .everything is spiritual . . .I've said that before.  And I do understand there are some that see that it can be taken more ways than one . .and I totally agree . .but the one we're directed to pursue is the spiritual . . .it is only in the spirit that our spirits can sustain life.

So being concerned about a literal 12,000 in the world around us really isn't the issue . . .it's what it represents spiritually that I'm really wanting to pursue.

[SPOKENFOR]

I think the book of Revelation is both Spiritual and Literal. It depends on what part of it you are reading.

[Nathan]

I think the book of Revelation is both Spiritual and Literal. It depends on what part of it you are reading.

But that's the point . . .who's to say what is spiritual and what is literal?  Who's the one drawing that line?

Jesus is the SAME yesterday (1st dimension) today (2nd dimension) and forever (3rd).  he doesn't change.  It's all literal . . .to those to whom it was literally written to . . .but it's also all spiritual, to them and to us . . but it can't be literal to them, and then literal again to us.  It wasn't written to us for the reasons it was written to them.  Pursuing the spirit isn't applying written Scripture to natural events 2,000 years after the fact.  Life is in the spirit of truth.  that's all I'm trying to say here. 

[Roy Monis]

It's sad to see a conversation about something that's intended to bring light and freedom, instead bring dissention and condemnation.  If I am at fault for this . . .I apologize.

Dear brother Nathan

There is no need to apologize.

You are perfectly right. Is that not what I have been saying all along, that studying the Scriptures with the intellect brings with it confrontation and division. This is the division I was referring to and it is evident. 

This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet which he spoke: "Lord, who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?" For this reason they could not believe, for Isaiah said again, He has blinded their eyes and He hardened their heart, so that they would not see with their eyes and perceive with their heart, and be converted and I heal them." (Jn.12:38-40) "Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces. (Matt.7:6).  Amen!!

Love

Roy   (UK)
 
 
 

[trettep]

Is it correct that there will be 144.000 witnesses send out in 72.000 pairs of 2 witnesses to 72 (Biblical) nations?

The two witnesses are those that present the True Witness of Christ.  The Two Tables of the Testimony (Witness) of the Old Covenant were a TYPE of the Two Witness of the New Covenant.  The Ark of the New Covenant is MAN and the tables of the New Covenant are fleshy tables of the heart.  So these two witness under the New Covenant is not specifically two persons.  It is just a references to those that exhibit the Spirit of God as a true testimony of Christ Jesus. They are of the Candlesticks that are before God.  Label each stick with the name of the Churches listed in Revelations Chapters 2 and 3 and remove those that God found disfavor with and you will remain with Philadelphia and Smyrna, and you will also find that Christ is in the midst of them. Those were the two that God doesn't speak with disfavor.  Those exhibited the Spirit of God as a true witness.  Those two Spirits of God have remained before Him as part of the seven eyes before the Lord.   

Paul

[Roy Monis]

 

It baffles me that you openly claim your status as athieist and yet your the one that goes on the attack against someone who openly claims not just belief, but intimacy with the very thing you claim you don't believe in.

Brother Nathan

This thread babbles me. For someone openly claiming to be an atheist, to be quoting the Word of God and from all appearances defending it, doesn't make sense. The norm as I understand it is, that if one does not believe in God then he speaks against Him not for Him. So what's going on here? Like you I think I should follow another thread. This man hasn't got the golden virtue of forgiveness like Jesus, which I admit none of us would have when hanging in agony on a cross, but he is not hanging on a cross as far as I can see.

Love 

Roy   (UK)

[Cardinal]

  Are you SERIOUS? That OFFENDS you???? 

Have you never seen the Spirit of God moving upon an "unsaved" person before? If WW isn't a witness to the power of God and incidentally, UR, then I don't know what is.

In this hour, the call has gone out to the "Lazarus generation", so steeped in the grave clothes/doctrines of the carnal mind they stinketh, so that none but the Master would even THINK of raising/touching them up, for fear of "contaminating" themselves with the "dead", but I tell you THEY WILL have their place at Abraham's table. Blessings to ALL.....