#2 -- Is use of Marijuana, SINFUL?

[Seth]

In my youth I used marijuana OFTEN... matter of fact, in many cases -- daily!

That's why your posts are so colorful

Haha....I would have guessed LSD for that.

[WhiteWings]

I think everyone here would agree that the physical plant is not a sin in and of itself.

I don't agree. Sorry.
I think the plant itself is very sinful. That's why it should be burned!

[rosered]

I think everyone here would agree that the physical plant is not a sin in and of itself.

I don't agree. Sorry.
I think the plant itself is very sinful. That's why it should be burned!

LOL !!!!!  Golly ,  ha ha ha ha 
  as long as you dont inhale eh ?

[WhiteWings]

It's a plant that has many MANY values, it's a fiber,

That's hennep. The male plant. The female plant is used for weed.

[Seth]

I think everyone here would agree that the physical plant is not a sin in and of itself.

I don't agree. Sorry.
I think the plant itself is very sinful. That's why it should be burned!

LOL !!!!!  Golly ,  ha ha ha ha 
  as long as you dont inhale eh ?

haha...I have a feeling WW might take occasion to stretch and .......yaaaaaaawwwn

[WhiteWings]

I think everyone here would agree that the physical plant is not a sin in and of itself.

I don't agree. Sorry.
I think the plant itself is very sinful. That's why it should be burned!

LOL !!!!!  Golly ,  ha ha ha ha  
  as long as you dont inhale eh ?

Don't worry. I won't smoke it. It stinks. Until 22 I never smelled the stuff.
I always lived on teh edge a small city. Farmers sometimes burned leaves. Mostly of beans IIRC.
When I moved to a bigger city I smelled weed the first time in my life. In the center of the city.
Hu, farmers? Here?  

[willieH]

willieH: Hi brother Seth

Thanks for your comments... 

Is doing something legal, not sinful?

It can be. But I think doing a drug which is clearly illegal is sinful unless someone can prove that smoking marijuana is doing the Lord's work versus the work of man...

I think Beloved Servant had a good point: even if Marijuana is legal, would smoking it edify God, or please the Adam in us?

   Hmmm...

Does "eating a piece of apple pie" edify God?  Or please the "Adam" in us? 
Does "watching a movie" edify God?  Or please the "Adam" in us? 
Does "buying a new car" edify God?  Or please the "Adam" in us?
Does "going on a camping trip" edify God?  Or please the "Adam" in us?

God gave us this life to enjoy, as well as to learn of His purposes.  I do not see that using marijuana is any more, or less "edifying" -- than is any of the above.  I do not consider buying a new car, watching a movie, eating a piece of apple pie, or going on a camping trip -- as "pleasing the Adam in us"... I see these as the ENJOYMENTS of the wonder of the gift of LIFE... 

I can tell you this... I have written SEVERAL of my most cherished and annointed GOSPEL tunes while using marijuana... 

And could bet (if I were a "bettin' man"  ), that if I played you a selection of 10 of my songs... that you would pick several of the ones written while using marijuana, as most "inspired"... 

Anything which becomes an idol in the temple (which is us) that is when it becomes sinful.

I completely agree bro... but as I noted above... is there really -- IDOLIZING --intended by ...watching a movie?

Not all of us shall enjoy the same things.  But if the WORD of God is not compromised in the enjoyment of a given thing, then to me COMPROMISE of the TEMPLE is not present.

We must be careful to use the WORD as the measure of our lives in ALL situations.  And when the WORD does not address something specifically (such as a "new car, apple pie, or marijuana"), then we must observe these things (concerning our lives) in our individual esteem as Paul notes in Rom 14:14

And in that, leave the esteem of others concerning those things, to THEM and their individual use or abstination of these within their own lives.

There are many gray areas of course and we could spend much time looking at gray-area circumstances, but that is why each person has a walk and each person must examine themselves whether they be in the faith.

I agree... the trouble is that most believers, use their individual determination (how they "esteem" apple pie) of these "gray areas" in their observations of others, outside themselves... 

...willieH 

[WhiteWings]

haha...I have a feeling WW might take occasion to stretch and .......yaaaaaaawwwn

To be honest I a bit scared of the stuff. For some people it has little effect and for some it hits hard. You know I'm fond of ladies. Likely to much.... But I'm proud that I never touched one "unautorized". And I like to keep it that way! I do drink alcohol. But never drink 'till you drop. Kinda for the same reason. Plus endangering others in for example traffic.
Besides I don't need the stuff to be relaxed and have fun. All I need is some smilies to play with.

[jabcat]

I just had a thought, that honestly, I don't think very much.  All the bracelets and everything may have made the thought sort of become trite.

However, my thought was, what would Jesus do?

teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.  Titus 2:12

For the time already past is sufficient for you to have carried out the desire of the Gentiles, having pursued a course of sensuality, lusts, drunkenness, carousing, drinking parties and abominable idolatries.  I Peter 4:3

Having, then, these promises, beloved, may we cleanse ourselves from every pollution of flesh and spirit, perfecting sanctification in the fear of God;  2 Cor. 7:1

..continually be imitators of God, as His early loved children...Eph. 5:1

Blessings, James.

[WhiteWings]

I agree... the trouble is that most believers, use their individual determination (how they "esteem" apple pie) of these "gray areas" in their observations of others, outside themselves... 

I think they also (partly) want to add self invented good works.

[natcat86]

To be honest I a bit scared of the stuff. For some people it has little effect and for some it hits hard. You know I'm fond of ladies. Likely to much.... But I'm proud that I never touched one "unautorized". And I like to keep it that way! I do drink alcohol. But never drink 'till you drop. Kinda for the same reason. Plus endangering others in for example traffic.
Besides I don't need the stuff to be relaxed and have fun. All I need is some smilies to play with.
[/quote]

Dont worry WW the last thing you will be able to do when stoned is flirt! Its amazing my husband and I ever got together!   Squint and its a dancing spliff! I think the main 'sin' danger for most people (everyone is different) is that being too stoned makes you lazy, I have seen people completely check out of life, friends, family. BUT if you have life in Christ, life to the full then I dont think there is much danger you will check out.

[Seth]

  Hmmm...

Does "eating a piece of apple pie" edify God?  Or please the "Adam" in us?  
Does "watching a movie" edify God?  Or please the "Adam" in us?  
Does "buying a new car" edify God?  Or please the "Adam" in us?
Does "going on a camping trip" edify God?  Or please the "Adam" in us?

God gave us this life to enjoy, as well as to learn of His purposes.  I do not see that using marijuana is any more, or less "edifying" -- than is any of the above.  I do not consider buying a new car, watching a movie, eating a piece of apple pie, or going on a camping trip -- as "pleasing the Adam in us"... I see these as the ENJOYMENTS of the wonder of the gift of LIFE...  

I can tell you this... I have written SEVERAL of my most cherished and annointed GOSPEL tunes while using marijuana...  

And could bet (if I were a "bettin' man"  ), that if I played you a selection of 10 of my songs... that you would pick several of the ones written while using marijuana, as most "inspired"...  

Hi willie,

I actually clarified my meaning about edifying God (and who I was speaking about) throughout the convo regarding edifying God and what things may or may not get in the way of that. Pot and pie do not affect the mind the same way, and if pot brings one into its control and authority in a way to which edifying (ie embodying the character) of God is compromised, that is indeed sinful, even in as much as eating too much pie can be. The difference between the two is that pot is much more powerful than the more mundane things you brought up, like pie.

I think James nailed it as to the gradation of power in each thing that can be set up as an idol whether legal or illegal.

I completely agree bro... but as I noted above... is there really -- IDOLIZING --intended by ...watching a movie?

Right, but please see above. Read through the conversation with WW because I go into more detail about what I mean about that.

Not all of us shall enjoy the same things.  But if the WORD of God is not compromised in the enjoyment of a given thing, then to me COMPROMISE of the TEMPLE is not present.

I agree. And as I said to WW, we must each have a responsibility not in a blanket form as to what others think it is a sin, but to examine ourselves. What is really the sin is being led of another and allowing Adam to be the controlling factor (I define that later too) in our decisions.

I agree... the trouble is that most believers, use their individual determination (how they "esteem" apple pie) of these "gray areas" in their observations of others, outside themselves...  

I think it is important to use the Word as you said. for that which leads me away from the Lord is sinful, which is why I make the personal choice not to do it, and why I determined it to be sinful for me. Now, just in case there are any lurkers watching, I am not talking about relative morality, but simply how I am led of the Spirit to approach it.

But my main point was that when you said "Is marijuana use a sin" my answer is that it certainly can be. The Spirit is there for guidance.

[WhiteWings]

However, my thought was, what would Jesus do?

Just guesswork but I think Jesus was a happy man. Not some grumpy person that never laughed.
I think even Jesus relaxed once in a while and simply did some other stuff than praying and in the last part of His life teaching.
Could be just me but having fun and laughing are parts of love.
God=Father. Fathers don't look grumpy all day long. Fathers laugh and play with the children and the dog.
Not a single verse to prove it. But well that's how I see them when I try to picture them.

So I think even Jesus enjoyed worldly pleasures not being sin.

[Seth]

However, my thought was, what would Jesus do?

Just guesswork but I think Jesus was a happy man. Not some grumpy person that never laughed.
I think even Jesus relaxed once in a while and simply did some other stuff than praying and in the last part of His life teaching.
Could be just me but having fun and laughing are parts of love.
God=Father. Fathers don't look grumpy all day long. Fathers laugh and play with the children and the dog.
Not a single verse to prove it. But well that's how I see them when I try to picture them.

So I think even Jesus enjoyed worldly pleasures not being sin.

I noticed you came JUST shy of saying that Jesus would smoke pot. ;) Do you think Jesus would roll a joint and smoke out with you? I mean that honestly not a trap, just curious.

[WhiteWings]

If it's in even the slightest way sinful the answer is no.
Besides of that: Could He afford it (price)? Did He find smoking (pot or not) repulsive.

Answer: It is possible.
Basicly IMO Jesus could have done anything that's not sinful.

You know I get the impression people on this forum always look up to Father, Son and HS. As if they are the very highest authority. And yes they are. But they also present themselfs as one of us.
Yes king/judge is above people. But Father, Son, is with/among the people. God walks with us. Jesus came as a humble person. Lived with humble people. There is a lesson in that for me. He could just as well have come down as the most powerful ruler ever that with a snap of His fingers crushed whole armies.
And to be among you people you must also take part of their ways. Except of course the sinful parts.

[Seth]

If it's in even the slightest way sinful the answer is no.
Besides of that: Could He afford it (price)? Did He find smoking (pot or not) repulsive.

Answer: It is possible.
Basicly IMO Jesus could have done anything that's not sinful.

You know I get the impression people on this forum always look up to Father, Son and HS. As if they are the very highest authority. And yes they are. But they also present themselfs as one of us.
Yes king/judge is above people. But Father, Son, is with/among the people. God walks with us. Jesus came as a humble person. Lived with humble people. There is a lesson in that for me. He could just as well have come down as the most powerful ruler ever that with a snap of His fingers crushed whole armies.
And to be among you people you must also take part of their ways. Except of course the sinful parts.

Lol, could he afford it? Well, he OWNED it right? ;)

[willieH]

willieH: Hi brother S...

  Hmmm...  

Does "eating a piece of apple pie" edify God?  Or please the "Adam" in us?  
Does "watching a movie" edify God?  Or please the "Adam" in us?  
Does "buying a new car" edify God?  Or please the "Adam" in us?
Does "going on a camping trip" edify God?  Or please the "Adam" in us?

God gave us this life to enjoy, as well as to learn of His purposes.  I do not see that using marijuana is any more, or less "edifying" -- than is any of the above.  I do not consider buying a new car, watching a movie, eating a piece of apple pie, or going on a camping trip -- as "pleasing the Adam in us"... I see these as the ENJOYMENTS of the wonder of the gift of LIFE...  

I can tell you this... I have written SEVERAL of my most cherished and annointed GOSPEL tunes while using marijuana...  

And could bet (if I were a "bettin' man"  ), that if I played you a selection of 10 of my songs... that you would pick several of the ones written while using marijuana, as most "inspired"...  

Hi willie,

I actually clarified my meaning about edifying God (and who I was speaking about) throughout the convo regarding edifying God and what things may or may not get in the way of that.

Cool... I was not intending to joust with you bro (), rather, to point out that uses of such things as marijuana in its natural, UNPROCESSED, "God created state", is no different than the use of those other things.

CHRIST turned water INTO WINE... a LARGE amount of it!  At a PARTY, no less!  After much drinking had already taken place... Point being that He meant no condemnation in His action to "keep the celebration" going... and His "water/wine" was the BEST of all!

Pot and pie do not affect the mind the same way, and if pot brings one into its control and authority in a way to which edifying (ie embodying the character) of God is compromised, that is indeed sinful

Neither does water and wine affect the mind the same way bro...  

I do not know your experience (or non-experience) with marijuana... but I can witness to you, that marijuana has NEVER "controlled" me OR my mind.  It has had an ENHANCING and CALMING effect if anything... and NEVER alters or "controls"... especially from an "authority" standpoint!

Let me ask you, ...what if the OPPOSITE is manifest bro?  What if I were to use marijuana, and a song or speech which EDIFIES and EXALTS GOD, proceeds from me? (which it has)... what then?

even in as much as eating too much pie can be. The difference between the two is that pot is much more powerful than the more mundane things you brought up, like pie.

~~  Is it Seth?  Have you smoked or eaten pot?  If you have, then you will KNOW that it hardly affects the mind NEGATIVELY, nor CONTROLS the mind...

~~  If you have NOT, then you are basing your statement that notes pot as "powerful" as opposed to "mudane" upon hearsay.

I think James nailed it as to the gradation of power in each thing that can be set up as an idol whether legal or illegal.

Again... IDOLIZING is not the point.  You just noted EATING is a "mundane" thing compared to using Marijuana... Tell that to an OVERWEIGHT person battling obesity.  EATING is a POWERFUL thing in such a life... and is OUT of CONTROL... and is IDOLIZED...

If on occasion and IN MODERATION (which is how anything within LIFE should be treated to avoid IDOLIZATION of it), ...I eat or smoke marijuana, how can this be IDOLIZING it?  

I completely agree bro... but as I noted above... is there really -- IDOLIZING --intended by ...watching a movie?

Right, but please see above. Read through the conversation with WW because I go into more detail about what I mean about that.

I will & will get back 2ya!  

Not all of us shall enjoy the same things.  But if the WORD of God is not compromised in the enjoyment of a given thing, then to me COMPROMISE of the TEMPLE is not present.

I agree. And as I said to WW, we must each have a responsibility not in a blanket form as to what others think it is a sin, but to examine ourselves. What is really the sin is being led of another and allowing Adam to be the controlling factor (I define that later too) in our decisions.

 

I agree... the trouble is that most believers, use their individual determination (how they "esteem" apple pie) of these "gray areas" in their observations of others, outside themselves...  

I think it is important to use the Word as you said. for that which leads me away from the Lord is sinful, which is why I make the personal choice not to do it, and why I determined it to be sinful for me. Now, just in case there are any lurkers watching, I am not talking about relative morality, but simply how I am led of the Spirit to approach it.

Again, I agree with this... If the WORD does not IMPLICATE marijuana as EVIL, then it does not.  The silence is the directive, and therefore becomes an INDIVIDUAL conviction one way or the other.  The biggest problem is the influences which bring about conviction.

IOW -- if the WORD in its SILENCE, did not bring about the conviction because it remains SILENT concerning it... then, something else brought the conviction... eh?  It is THIS"something else" -- which I bring into question.

But my main point was that when you said "Is marijuana use a sin" my answer is that it certainly can be. The Spirit is there for guidance.

So can EATING (I enjoy a good breakfast or dinner)...   ...or SPORTS (I enjoy sports)... or WATCHING MOVIES (I also enjoy movies -- have quite a collection!)...  

For if one ESTEEMS too highly the FOOD, or the ATHLETES, or the ACTORS, then one is IDOLIZING, and that dear brother is SIN, in the very same way, as is proposed of marijuana.  

...willieH

[willieH]

I think everyone here would agree that the physical plant is not a sin in and of itself.

I don't agree. Sorry.
I think the plant itself is very sinful. That's why it should be burned!

 

[Seth]

Cool... I was not intending to joust with you bro

I know, I didn't take that way at all. In fact I took it the opposite.

CHRIST turned water INTO WINE... a LARGE amount of it!  At a PARTY, no less!  After much drinking had already taken place... Point being that He meant no condemnation in His action to "keep the celebration" going... and His "water/wine" was the BEST of all!

Yup, nothing wrong with that.

I do not know your experience (or non-experience) with marijuana... but I can witness to you, that marijuana has NEVER "controlled" me OR my mind.  It has had an ENHANCING and CALMING effect if anything... and NEVER alters or "controls"... especially from an "authority" standpoint!

That's good.

Let me ask you, ...what if the OPPOSITE is manifest bro?  What if I were to use marijuana, and a song or speech which EDIFIES and EXALTS GOD, proceeds from me? (which it has)... what then?

What I mean by edification is the embodiment of God's character for teaching or example to others and even to one's self.

Now, I think where my words were misunderstood were the idea that I was saying that anything that does not actively edify God is sinful, as though walking, swimming, eating pie were sinful if it did not edify God. NOT what I said or meant, only that each believer who wishes to edify God must examine their motives to see if they are compromising that. Because if they are smoking pot to please the Adam nature of wanting to be led of another husband in the mind, that is how idols are created. That was more of a statement of how smoking pot CAN be sinful, rather than a blanket statement of "no" which would apply to all cases.

~~  Is it Seth?  Have you smoked or eaten pot?  If you have, then you will KNOW that it hardly affects the mind NEGATIVELY, nor CONTROLS the mind...

~~  If you have NOT, then you are basing your statement that notes pot as "powerful" as opposed to "mudane" upon hearsay.

I used to smoke alot. And I have actually seen it affect both my mind and other people's minds negatively. For me, it did control my mind because it made me less than sober. I was not sober minded at all and it would lead to thoughts other than pure. I found it to be a hinderance which is why I made the choice for myself not to do it.

Again... IDOLIZING is not the point.  

Not whose point? It was a point I made that it can become an idol more easily for some than others, which I think is a pretty valid point since it shows that pot use can become sinful.

You just noted EATING is a "mundane" thing compared to using Marijuana... Tell that to an OVERWEIGHT person battling obesity.  EATING is a POWERFUL thing in such a life... and is OUT of CONTROL... and is IDOLIZED...

You just described me. Food has always been more my drug than anything else. Food became sinful for me. As I said, anything can become sinful, yet there is definitely a gradation of power in certain things over others, exceptions noted. For example, shooting heroine has more of a chance of bring someone into slavery than walking or swimming, GENERALLY speaking.

If on occasion and IN MODERATION (which is how anything within LIFE should be treated to avoid IDOLIZATION of it), ...I eat or smoke marijuana, how can this be IDOLIZING it?  

Just to be clear I wasn't saying that you are idolizing it.

Again, I agree with this... If the WORD does not IMPLICATE marijuana as EVIL, then it does not.  The silence is the directive, and therefore becomes an INDIVIDUAL conviction one way or the other.  The biggest problem is the influences which bring about conviction.

The written word wasn't really what I was talking about. The living word is never silent. But I agree with the conclusion.

So can EATING (I enjoy a good breakfast or dinner)...   ...or SPORTS (I enjoy sports)... or WATCHING MOVIES (I also enjoy movies -- have quite a collection!)...  

For if one ESTEEMS too highly the FOOD, or the ATHLETES, or the ACTORS, then one is IDOLIZING, and that dear brother is SIN, in the very same way, as is proposed of marijuana.  

That's true, which is why I said that a plain "no" to the question of whether or not pot use is sinful does not cover the fact that it can be.

[Cardinal]

  And again.......this is not to any one person, speaking in situation specifics here.

The bottom line is, we live or have His Spirit life, by every word/breath that proceeds from the mouth of God. Did God tell you not to do it (WHATEVER "it" is) and you did it anyway? That's sin; simple as that.

Now what if someone can't hear God and/or doesn't read His Word?

Their conscience convicts them, UNTIL they have "silenced" it by ignoring it over and over and over again, which is why it says our conscience can be seared by a hot iron.

If you burn yourself, it creates scar tissue. As anyone who's ever had a burn knows, they are extremely painful and if it's bad enough you have a lot of thick scar tissue that does not have the normal sensitivity of the regular flesh, because it's thicker and more like calloused flesh.

So what I said applies to anything but let's go back to the particular topic. The real test of your conscience is this; if Jesus was literally sitting in the room with you, do you HONESTLY think you'd light up in front of Him?

No? Why not? I think it'd be because once you felt all that unconditional love in one spot (in spite of), and you realized all that He laid down for you, you'd feel enough gratitude (among other things) to lay down something for Him, especially after comparing what was in your hands, with what was in His. My   Blessings....  

[Seth]

Card, good word. This is why Paul said that honest self-evaluation is so necessary. If I smoked pot my conscious would convict me only because I know God does not want ME doing it. I feel tempted to do it, yet He leads me away. If I went against that, I would be sinning.

Anything that leads me away from "denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world" is a sin to me, and that is why I must continue to take every thought captive. For me, speaking individually, marijuana use would not only take me away from living soberly, but could also lead someone into it if they saw me doing it, and could destroy them as well, people I know personally. So I just made a choice not to mess with it because I don't even want that possibility at all if I can avoid it. But my situation is different than others.

[Lupac]

I thought I'd take another crack at this topic

It's a plant that has many MANY values, it's a fiber,

That's hennep. The male plant. The female plant is used for weed.

Yes, I know that. I was just making a point that both plants (Male and female, they're both still cannabis.) has many uses.

To be honest I a bit scared of the stuff. For some people it has little effect and for some it hits hard. You know I'm fond of ladies. Likely to much.... But I'm proud that I never touched one "unautorized". And I like to keep it that way! I do drink alcohol. But never drink 'till you drop. Kinda for the same reason. Plus endangering others in for example traffic.
Besides I don't need the stuff to be relaxed and have fun. All I need is some smilies to play with.

Dont worry WW the last thing you will be able to do when stoned is flirt! Its amazing my husband and I ever got together!    Squint and its a dancing spliff! I think the main 'sin' danger for most people (everyone is different) is that being too stoned makes you lazy, I have seen people completely check out of life, friends, family. BUT if you have life in Christ, life to the full then I dont think there is much danger you will check out.
[/quote]

IMO, even if you're under the influence of something. It still can't "make" you do anything. You're still choosing to do whatever it is, the substance (Alcohol, Cannabis.) just makes it easier/harder.

However, my thought was, what would Jesus do?

Just guesswork but I think Jesus was a happy man. Not some grumpy person that never laughed.
I think even Jesus relaxed once in a while and simply did some other stuff than praying and in the last part of His life teaching.
Could be just me but having fun and laughing are parts of love.
God=Father. Fathers don't look grumpy all day long. Fathers laugh and play with the children and the dog.
Not a single verse to prove it. But well that's how I see them when I try to picture them.

So I think even Jesus enjoyed worldly pleasures not being sin.

I noticed you came JUST shy of saying that Jesus would smoke pot. ;) Do you think Jesus would roll a joint and smoke out with you? I mean that honestly not a trap, just curious.

I have no doubt if I bought some weed to Jesus, he would smoke it with me. But I'd imagine he'd have more important things to do.

On a side note, what's with all this talk about joints/spliffs? Glass all the way man!

[willieH]

willieH: Hi bro... 

I noticed you came JUST shy of saying that Jesus would smoke pot. ;) Do you think Jesus would roll a joint and smoke out with you? I mean that honestly not a trap, just curious.

Well, maybe CHRIST would not "smoke" marijuana, but what would prevent Him from EATING it?    After all, ...it was HE that created marijuana as it IS!  Why should He "create" something that He found undeserving of His use? 

God has PURPOSE in ALL THINGS... and there is NOTHING in the WORD that condemns His created "herbs"... (that I have found -- have you found any?) -- many herbs are meant for and have MEDICINAL intention... not for EATING...

It is interesting that God said:

Gen 1:29 -- and God said, behold, I have given you EVERY herb bearing seed which is upon the face of the earth, and EVERY tree in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat

Yet EVERY herb and tree does NOT bear edible food... There are several HERBS and TREES which bear POISONOUS seed and fruit...  So this statement if carefully examined does not mean ALL TREES and HERBS are meant for FOOD... rather, ALL TREES and HERBS which are EDIBLE are meant for FOOD.

Interestingly enough, Marijuana is NOT POISONOUS, and CAN be eaten... 

...willieH 

[willieH]

Is doing something illegal sinful?

Here it's legal. Must be at least 50 shops in town here.
By law I'm allowed to grow 4 plants.
But that's not so in many other parts of the world.
So the question is: Do God's laws in any way/sometimes (partly) depend on laws of men?

Good question, WW...

NEVER do God's laws IN ANY WAY depend on the laws of men... 

...willieH 

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Seth... 

Please don't receive this answer in any other tone than brotherly love bro...

Let me ask you, ...what if the OPPOSITE is manifest bro?  What if I were to use marijuana, and a song or speech which EDIFIES and EXALTS GOD, proceeds from me? (which it has)... what then?

What I mean by edification is the embodiment of God's character for teaching or example to others and even to one's self.

Thanks for that answer bro, but it did not really answer my question... 

For the record, ...what is the definition (within your perception) of the "embodiement of God's character" bro? 

This "embodiement" is a pretty big thing... and it only leads back to Him, that which HE sent out.  If marijuana was put here by Him (and it was)... and He did not specify GUIDELINES for its use... then how can we determine MISUSE of it?

As I see it, ...except by observing it with common sense, and moderation, there is no MISUSE of it...

JESUS threw over the tables in the temple... would THAT be part of the "embodiement"?  If so, how?

Now, I think where my words were misunderstood were the idea that I was saying that anything that does not actively edify God is sinful, as though walking, swimming, eating pie were sinful if it did not edify God. NOT what I said or meant, only that each believer who wishes to edify God must examine their motives to see if they are compromising that.

I agree... since I have become a follower of God, I have used marijuana.  And never once was my motive to be disobedient to God... Nor did I use it to "escape" anything.

Just as I would enjoy a steak (no offense to vegans), or ride a wave on a surfboard... I did it to enjoy the LIFE that God has given me... (same motive with the waves as with the pot)

Because if they are smoking pot to please the Adam nature of wanting to be led of another husband in the mind, that is how idols are created. That was more of a statement of how smoking pot CAN be sinful, rather than a blanket statement of "no" which would apply to all cases.

I agree again...

God created SEX... and the proper USE of it is NOT SINFUL, however the IMPROPER use of it, IS SIN...

God created ALCOHOL... and the proper USE of it is NOT SINFUL, however the IMPROPER use of it IS SIN... see what I mean?

Anything that is within our ability to choose personal involvement, CAN be SINFUL...  but the SILENCE of Scripture concerning use of marijuana, or even Alcohol as "SIN"... is proof enough that it is NOT...

In these areas of SILENCE, ...if a man ESTEEMS it as sin... then it is SIN to that man... Rom 14:14

~~  Is it Seth?  Have you smoked or eaten pot?  If you have, then you will KNOW that it hardly affects the mind NEGATIVELY, nor CONTROLS the mind...

~~  If you have NOT, then you are basing your statement that notes pot as "powerful" as opposed to "mudane" upon hearsay.

I used to smoke alot. And I have actually seen it affect both my mind and other people's minds negatively.

Wow bro... There must be behaviors in the Bay area, that are not present in Los Angeles or Spokane!  I smoked pot for 10 solid years in Los Angeles and Spokane --- and a good 15 years (of much lesser use) in Spokane, with countless people on countless occasions, and NEVER ONCE did I ever witness NEGATIVITY arising from anyone using it in proximity to me -- NEVER ONCE!

I played in bands, went to parties where it was being used, etc.  And never witnessed another becoming negative due to the use of pot...

For me, it did control my mind because it made me less than sober.

Hmmm...

What do you mean by "less than sober" bro?  "Sober" has quite a few applicable meanings... 

In what way or ways did it "control" your mind? 

I was not sober minded at all and it would lead to thoughts other than pure.

I see... This is understandable... but maybe marijuana was not the culprit.  Don't mean to be sarcastic... but (unfortunately) I too, have had impure thoughts during my lifetime that had nothing to do with marijuana... They were moments that I will be happy to have stricken from the record, but when this occured during the use of marijuana, it was not the marijuana that "caused" the thoughts... nor imposed control of those thoughts...  It was my mind that (in that moment) was not submitted to CHRIST, that "caused" those "impure" thoughts, not the marijuana.

Each of us is different, and I salute you for abandoning that which you find is an encumberance to your service to God (marijuana)... I do not find this encumberance concerning marijuana...

I found it to be a hinderance which is why I made the choice for myself not to do it.

Again, what the individual personally esteems, is an individual concern.  My question in this thread was more IN GENERAL... Such as, ...what the WORD might broadcast as a direction or teaching concerning it...

Again... IDOLIZING is not the point.

Not whose point? It was a point I made that it can become an idol more easily for some than others, which I think is a pretty valid point since it shows that pot use can become sinful.

Brother... ANYTHING can be IDOLIZED... and most of those I know who smoke or have smoked or eaten marijuana, did not embrace it as something IDOLIZED. 

Idolatry is a pretty common thing in the human race.  Any man completely enamored by a beautiful woman, has indulged in this... Or anyone who just LOVES a given entertainer... or any SPORTS fanatic... or any CUISINE LOVER... or any DOG lover... or anyone who CLEANS his/her house obsessively... there is an UNENDING number of IDOLATRY considerations within human behavior...

How do we escape this?  As sinful entities, we cannot.  And, IMO in some ways, we should not.  Redirecting the "IDOLIZING" by giving thanks to the giftings of our Creator, in submitting ourselves to Him...

I am proud of my 33 year marriage to my beautiful wife, whom I remain PLEASED every time I see her face.  Does this mean I "idolize" her?  NO... it does not...

It means that I LOVE her, and CHERISH GOD for giving her to me... just as I give thanks to Him before breaking bread, and before going to sleep, for ALL the things He has given to me into my life... including the Detroit Lions... 

IDOLATRY is (IMO) to LOVE something, leaving GOD -- out of it!

As I said in my question above... If I use marijuana, and a wonderful and TRUTHFUL  revelation comes forth from within me, ...is this WRONG in some way, because marijuana was a part of it? 

You just noted EATING is a "mundane" thing compared to using Marijuana... Tell that to an OVERWEIGHT person battling obesity.  EATING is a POWERFUL thing in such a life... and is OUT of CONTROL... and is IDOLIZED...

You just described me. Food has always been more my drug than anything else. Food became sinful for me. As I said, anything can become sinful, yet there is definitely a gradation of power in certain things over others, exceptions noted. For example, shooting heroine has more of a chance of bring someone into slavery than walking or swimming, GENERALLY speaking.

Agreed bro... but aside from that, marijuana and heroin are 2 completely different things -- in 2 completely different categories. 

HEROIN

Heroin can KILL you if you overdose yourself. 
Heroin is PHYSICALLY addictive after the first few uses.
Heroin does NOT come from the ground -- AS IS. 
Heroin must be PROCESSED/manufactured in order to be used.

MARIJUANA

Marijuana cannot KILL you by overdose.
Marijuana is NOT PHYSICALLY addictive, even after hundreds of uses.
Marijuana COMES from the ground (and from GOD) -- AS IS
Marijuana needs NO PROCESSING to be used.

Again, I agree with this... If the WORD does not IMPLICATE marijuana as EVIL, then it does not.  The silence is the directive, and therefore becomes an INDIVIDUAL conviction one way or the other.  The biggest problem is the influences which bring about conviction.

The written word wasn't really what I was talking about. The living word is never silent. But I agree with the conclusion.

I meant by "SILENCE", that GOD chose not to mention Marijuana in the written WORD, neither did He note MISUSE of it, nor did He note any directive concerning it... i.e. --> "silence".  If NOTHING is said... then NOTHING is said.

So can EATING (I enjoy a good breakfast or dinner)...   ...or SPORTS (I enjoy sports)... or WATCHING MOVIES (I also enjoy movies -- have quite a collection!)... 

For if one ESTEEMS too highly the FOOD, or the ATHLETES, or the ACTORS, then one is IDOLIZING, and that dear brother is SIN, in the very same way, as is proposed of marijuana.

That's true, which is why I said that a plain "no" to the question of whether or not pot use is sinful does not cover the fact that it can be.

Same "CAN", brother S... 

As I previously stated... "SIN" that is not PLAINLY defined in Scripture, becomes a matter of PERSONAL conviction... and any personal conviction, must remain personal... and should not be leveled (as a measure) toward another which does not hold the same conviction... 

IOW -- you might love mayonnaise, but I do not... because I do not, ...I must be careful to not hold any ill feelings or judgment toward you -- for loving it... 

That I used the word "NO" in the OP... was for brevities sake, and as promised, I have had more than -- "NO" -- to say about the subject.

PS... I hope this (my belief that marijuana is NOT of itself, nor in moderate use, is evil) does not lessen our friendship in any way.   

...willieH