willieH: Hi Seth...
Please don't receive this answer in any other tone than brotherly love bro...
Let me ask you, ...what if the OPPOSITE is manifest bro? What if I were to use marijuana, and a song or speech which EDIFIES and EXALTS GOD, proceeds from me? (which it has)... what then?
What I mean by edification is the embodiment of God's character for teaching or example to others and even to one's self.
Thanks for that answer bro, but it did not really answer my question...
For the record, ...what is the definition (within your perception) of the "embodiement of God's character" bro?
This "embodiement" is a pretty big thing... and it only leads back to Him, that which HE sent out. If marijuana was put here by Him (and it was)... and He did not specify GUIDELINES for its use... then how can we
determine MISUSE of it?
As I see it, ...except by observing it with common sense, and moderation, there is no MISUSE of it...JESUS
threw over the tables in the temple... would THAT
be part of the "embodiement"? If so, how?
Now, I think where my words were misunderstood were the idea that I was saying that anything that does not actively edify God is sinful, as though walking, swimming, eating pie were sinful if it did not edify God. NOT what I said or meant, only that each believer who wishes to edify God must examine their motives to see if they are compromising that.
I agree... since I have become a follower of God, I have used marijuana. And never once was my motive to be disobedient to God... Nor did I use it to "escape" anything.
Just as I would enjoy a steak (no offense to vegans), or ride a wave on a surfboard... I did it to enjoy the LIFE that God has given me... (same motive with the waves as with the pot)
Because if they are smoking pot to please the Adam nature of wanting to be led of another husband in the mind, that is how idols are created. That was more of a statement of how smoking pot CAN be sinful, rather than a blanket statement of "no" which would apply to all cases.
I agree again...
God created SEX... and the proper USE of it is NOT SINFUL, however the IMPROPER use of it, IS SIN...
God created ALCOHOL... and the proper USE of it is NOT SINFUL, however the IMPROPER use of it IS SIN... see what I mean?
Anything that is within our ability to choose personal involvement, CAN
be SINFUL... but the SILENCE of Scripture concerning use of marijuana, or even Alcohol as "SIN"... is proof enough that it is NOT...
In these areas of SILENCE, ...if a man ESTEEMS it as sin... then it is SIN to that man... Rom 14:14
~~ Is it Seth? Have you smoked or eaten pot? If you have, then you will KNOW that it hardly affects the mind NEGATIVELY, nor CONTROLS the mind...
~~ If you have NOT, then you are basing your statement that notes pot as "powerful" as opposed to "mudane" upon hearsay.
I used to smoke alot. And I have actually seen it affect both my mind and other people's minds negatively.
Wow bro... There must be behaviors
in the Bay area, that are not present in Los Angeles or Spokane! I smoked pot for 10 solid
years in Los Angeles and Spokane --- and a good 15 years (of much lesser use) in Spokane, with countless people on countless occasions, and NEVER ONCE did I ever witness NEGATIVITY arising from anyone using it in proximity to me -- NEVER ONCE!
I played in bands, went to parties where it was being used, etc. And never witnessed another becoming negative due to the use of pot...
For me, it did control my mind because it made me less than sober.
What do you mean by "less than sober" bro? "Sober" has quite a few applicable meanings...
In what way or ways did it "control" your mind?
I was not sober minded at all and it would lead to thoughts other than pure.
I see... This is understandable... but maybe marijuana was not the culprit. Don't mean to be sarcastic... but (unfortunately) I too, have had impure thoughts during my lifetime that had nothing to do with marijuana... They were moments that I will be happy to have stricken from the record, but when this occured during the use of marijuana, it was not the marijuana that "caused" the thoughts... nor imposed control of those thoughts... It was my mind that (in that moment) was not submitted to CHRIST
, that "caused" those "impure" thoughts, not the marijuana.
Each of us is different, and I salute you for abandoning that which you find is an encumberance to your service to God (marijuana)... I do not find this encumberance concerning marijuana...
I found it to be a hinderance which is why I made the choice for myself not to do it.
Again, what the individual personally esteems, is an individual concern. My question in this thread was more IN GENERAL... Such as, ...what the WORD
might broadcast as a direction or teaching concerning it...
Again... IDOLIZING is not the point.
Not whose point? It was a point I made that it can become an idol more easily for some than others, which I think is a pretty valid point since it shows that pot use can become sinful.
Brother... ANYTHING can be IDOLIZED... and most of those I know who smoke or have smoked or eaten marijuana, did not embrace it as something IDOLIZED.
Idolatry is a pretty common thing in the human race. Any man completely enamored by a beautiful woman, has indulged in this... Or anyone who just LOVES
a given entertainer... or any SPORTS fanatic... or any CUISINE LOVER... or any DOG lover... or anyone who CLEANS his/her house obsessively... there is an UNENDING number of IDOLATRY considerations within human behavior...
How do we escape this? As sinful entities, we cannot. And, IMO in some ways, we should not. Redirecting the "IDOLIZING" by giving thanks to the giftings of our Creator, in submitting ourselves to Him...
I am proud of my 33 year marriage to my beautiful wife, whom I remain PLEASED every time I see her face. Does this mean I "idolize" her
? NO... it does not...
It means that I LOVE her, and CHERISH GOD for giving her to me... just as I give thanks to Him before breaking bread, and before going to sleep, for ALL the things He has given to me into my life... including the Detroit Lions
IDOLATRY is (IMO) to LOVE something, leaving GOD -- out of it!
As I said in my question above... If I use marijuana, and a wonderful and TRUTHFUL revelation comes forth from within me, ...is this WRONG in some way, because marijuana was a part of it?
You just noted EATING is a "mundane" thing compared to using Marijuana... Tell that to an OVERWEIGHT person battling obesity. EATING is a POWERFUL thing in such a life... and is OUT of CONTROL... and is IDOLIZED...
You just described me. Food has always been more my drug than anything else. Food became sinful for me. As I said, anything can become sinful, yet there is definitely a gradation of power in certain things over others, exceptions noted. For example, shooting heroine has more of a chance of bring someone into slavery than walking or swimming, GENERALLY speaking.
Agreed bro... but aside from that, marijuana
are 2 completely different things -- in 2 completely different categories. HEROIN
Heroin can KILL you if you overdose yourself.
Heroin is PHYSICALLY addictive after the first few uses.
Heroin does NOT come from the ground -- AS IS.
Heroin must be PROCESSED/manufactured in order to be used. MARIJUANA
Marijuana cannot KILL you by overdose.
Marijuana is NOT PHYSICALLY addictive, even after hundreds of uses.
Marijuana COMES from the ground (and from GOD) -- AS IS
Marijuana needs NO PROCESSING to be used.
Again, I agree with this... If the WORD does not IMPLICATE marijuana as EVIL, then it does not. The silence is the directive, and therefore becomes an INDIVIDUAL conviction one way or the other. The biggest problem is the influences which bring about conviction.
The written word wasn't really what I was talking about. The living word is never silent. But I agree with the conclusion.
I meant by "SILENCE", that GOD chose not to mention
Marijuana in the written WORD
, neither did He note MISUSE of it, nor did He note any directive concerning it... i.e. --> "silence". If NOTHING
is said... then NOTHING
So can EATING (I enjoy a good breakfast or dinner)... ...or SPORTS (I enjoy sports)... or WATCHING MOVIES (I also enjoy movies -- have quite a collection!)...
For if one ESTEEMS too highly the FOOD, or the ATHLETES, or the ACTORS, then one is IDOLIZING, and that dear brother is SIN, in the very same way, as is proposed of marijuana.
That's true, which is why I said that a plain "no" to the question of whether or not pot use is sinful does not cover the fact that it can be.
, brother S...
As I previously stated... "SIN" that is not PLAINLY defined in Scripture, becomes a matter of PERSONAL conviction... and any personal conviction, must remain personal... and should not be leveled (as a measure) toward another which does not hold the same
IOW -- you might love mayonnaise, but I do not... because I do not, ...I must be careful to not hold any ill feelings or judgment toward you -- for loving it...
That I used the word "NO"
in the OP
... was for brevities sake, and as promised, I have had more than -- "NO
" -- to say about the subject.
PS... I hope this (my belief that marijuana is NOT of itself, nor in moderate use, is evil) does not lessen our friendship in any way.