#2 -- Is use of Marijuana, SINFUL?

[willieH]

willieH: Hi again me bratha's  & Sistiz 

Here is my 2nd topic, discussed on another board... It will be interesting to hear your thoughts...

Is it a SIN to use Marijuana? 

As with drinking, I will begin by my foundational answer to this question (though I have much more to say about it) ---- NO!

Look forward to your comments and thoughts...

...willieH

[Beloved Servant]

Things like this I've learned to call "Indulging Adam"
And I know when I've done something that displeased the Lord.

[Molly]

Is doing something illegal sinful?

[Lupac]

As I have first, second, and sometimes third hand knowledge of the subject, I see no reason why I should not be the first replier.   (Damn, I wasn't the first.)

First of all, I do NOT believe it's a sin.

It's a plant that has many MANY values, it's a fiber, it's a medicine, and it's an awesome way to relax. Now, I think it can be sinful, in the same way sex can be sinful, if you commit adultery for example, or, maybe that's not a good comparison. Food can be sinful, if you're a glutton. Video games can be sinful if that's all you do with your life, and you ignore more important things. (Family, job, etc.) Likewise, cannabis (Not MJ.) can be sinful if that's all you're living for. If that makes sense.

Now, there are two reasons mainstream Christians are opposed to cannabis, and it stems more from government propaganda than the Bible. First, they use the same verse (I can't remember it at the moment.) where Paul talks about not harming your own body, or something like that. (It's the main verse used against smoking tobacco also.) Most of the negative side effects of smoking cannabis are not true. Here's a great artical that says more than I ever could:

http://hightimes.com/news/ht_admin/5508

Now, there are some negative side effects with getting high. The worst is it messes with your short term memory. One time I got high, and I was trying to wash out the home-made bong I smoked out of. I don't really know how many times I washed it, because every time I got done, I'd forget what I was doing and wash it again. If that scares you, just don't smoke it.

The other argument against it by mainstream Christians is the fact that it is illegal. They have another verse written by Paul (I don't know this one ether, it might be in Romans.) which talks about obeying the laws that are placed above you. And to that, I have no argument unless someone can post the verse I'm talking about. 1 sec... Found it, Romans 13:1-5

Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. [2] Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. [3] For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. [4] For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. [5] Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.

Well, I think this page sums it up nicely:

http://romans13.embassyofheaven.com/understanding.htm

Therefore I see nothing wrong with smoking every once in a while. (Just don't get caught.)

[jfraysse]

Is doing something legal, not sinful?

[fullarmor2]

     I think its not so much about a persons behavior, within reason that is.    Its a question of whether or not the person is in relationship with God .  Or,  in Spirit and in Truth.  Because then God enables you to be right regarding involvement in carnal things.  Meaning that the Spirit will help us to avoid getting out of balance in a carnal thing, and/or the Spirit will "check us" when we do get out of balance,  causing us to get back in balance.      So,  I think if you use your spirit about it,   meaning being wise about it,    its fine.  

  P.S. -   No, I  don't.      

[NinjaWizards777]

ive always thought it was, but as I began to revaluate my beliefs post and pre-universalism, I cant really come to any logical conclusion as to why, other than it can be harmful and addictive(but then again just about everything is potentially harmful and addictive...why do we always single out weed and alcohal?). But there are many Christians that feel smoking cigarettes is not a sin...and thats considerably more harmful . I mean how often do you hear of people dying from cigarettes? now think about marijuana?

I really dont understand why marijuana isnt legal

conclusion, due to my upbringing, I feel that its more "bad" than alcohal, but logically and biblically Im not sure how it is any more bad, if not less.

[Raggedy Anne]

It depends on who is using it.   For some people who feel in their conscience that it is wrong, it would be sinful.  But to certain others, it is not.
It has been shown to have medicinal uses in the realm of pain management.  And is legally prescribed for that purpose by some
doctors.   It's not illegal in every state.   It is legal in Holland and perhaps other parts of Europe.  Men can pass laws against anything they
want to control, but that is not what makes a thing sinful.

No, I don't smoke pot.  But I would not judge/condemn someone who did.

Anne

[WhiteWings]

Is doing something illegal sinful?

Here it's legal. Must be at least 50 shops in town here.
By law I'm allowed to grow 4 plants.
But that's not so in many other parts of the world.
So the question is: Do God's laws in any way/sometimes (partly) depend on laws of men?

[rosered]

Is doing something illegal sinful?

Here it's legal. Must be at least 50 shops in town here.
By law I'm allowed to grow 4 plants.
But that's not so in many other parts of the world.
So the question is: Do God's laws in any way/sometimes (partly) depend on laws of men?

  Good question !  the Law of the Land    what  do we obey
 
  grace verses  fleshy wisdom

2Cr 1:12 For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward. 
 
   God can do all things .........
 
Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work, 


 Tts 3:2   To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, [but] gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. 


 Tts 3:3   For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, [and] hating one another. 


 Tts 3:4   But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 


 Tts 3:5   Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy SPIRIT ; 


 Tts 3:6   Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 
 Tts 3:7   That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 


 Tts 3:8  [This is] a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

 
  magistrates 1) to obey (a ruler or a superior)
 
  anything  that makes you  guilty  as charged  if you  have or have not done wrong but are accussed  falsly or  true
  should be  considered
 
   some can do anything and feel nothing , some can never be ashamed
 of doing anything ,  they do not  have  a  conscience  towards God or fellow man   
 what is the  hot iron  that sears the conscience  God will do if you dont learn from  mistakes in the past ?
 
 one can do the other cannot do  to me it is all how you "percieve God  "and His will .....    so much can be said of  this ..  many examples



Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 


 1Ti 4:2   Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 


 1Ti 4:3   Forbidding to marry, [and commanding] to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 


 1Ti 4:4   For every creature of God [is] good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 


 1Ti 4:5   For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. 
 

  I dont want to pay a fine  for  breaking the laws of the land
  but some  by the desires will take thier chances of getting caught  in the act
  I did in the past  do such things , but now they seem   less desirable    ....... after having something of God within , nothing else will do ........

[natcat86]

My husband used to smoke a couple of spliffs a day before he knew the Lord. Now he has no inclination. I've had some great times after having a few blasts where I haven't done anything sinful, just been happy and mellow. Like anything which makes us 'not sober' you have to look at your motives for using it. If its to escape life, think it through- except no imitations but life in Christ! If its just to enhance life like a nice meal, glass of wine, seeing a play, having a massage and Jesus is your number one, you have felt no prompting from the Holy Spirit not to do it then I think that its ok.

I havent smoked it since before I was pregnant and I wont untill my children are grown up if I ever do again because I think its a complicated issue and i dont want to be hypocrite, becuase I woulnd't want my children to do it unless they were right with the Lord and I knew they were listening to the Holy Spirit.

For those who do think that its ok is it because its naturally grown, what about mushrooms?

[WhiteWings]

For those who do think that its ok is it because its naturally grown, what about mushrooms?

I think the word "pure" should be used in this discussion.
XTC, cannabis, is not that harmful. But.... because it's only semi legal attracts teh bad kind of people.
Mixing all kind of junk with it. More like toxic waste.
So very often there is a secret ingredient X. And that X usually is the real killer.

[natcat86]

So very often there is a secret ingredient X. And that X usually is the real killer.

Apparently thanks to genetic engineering weed is a lot stronger these days than say the weed that Bob Dylan would have introduced The Beatles to!

[WhiteWings]

Yep, it's no longer pure nature. Pure nature is soil+seed+water.
We have growshops here with all kind of stuff for showing. I can tell you they sell much more than a few seeds. It's almost sience...
BTW I don't use it. I don't smoke at all.
I stick to alcohol. 2 parts Red Bull + 1 part Bacardi Razz 

[Seth]

Is doing something legal, not sinful?

It can be. But I think doing a drug which is clearly illegal is sinful unless someone can prove that smoking marijuana is doing the Lord's work versus the work of man...

I think Beloved Servant had a good point: even if Marijuana is legal, would smoking it edify God, or please the Adam in us?

Anything which becomes an idol in the temple (which is us) that is when it becomes sinful. There are many gray areas of course and we could spend much time looking at gray-area circumstances, but that is why each person has a walk and each person must examine themselves whether they be in the faith.

[WhiteWings]

I think Beloved Servant had a good point: even if Marijuana is legal, would smoking it edify God, or please the Adam in us?

Does eating, drinking, sleeping, walking, swimming, working, going to the toilet, singing, showering, vote, drive, etc etc etc edify God?

[Seth]

I think Beloved Servant had a good point: even if Marijuana is legal, would smoking it edify God, or please the Adam in us?

Does eating, drinking, sleeping, walking, swimming, working, going to the toilet, singing, showering, vote, drive, etc etc etc edify God?

Singing can edify God sure. All the others are pretty neutral. I didn't say that something neutral is sinful if it doesn't actively edify God. Is that what you got? This thread is about Marijuana smoking. Pot is an illegal mind altering drug. So if it were legal and someone smoked it would they be doing it to edify God or please the Adam in us? That is a decision people who wish to edify God have to make.

[Beloved Servant]

  11 and a voice came from the sky, saying, "Thou art My Son dearly loved: in Thee is My delight."  Mark 1, Weymouth New Testament


 58  "The foxes have holes," said Jesus, "and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head."   Luke 9, Weymouth New Testament


   2 For you yourselves know perfectly well that the day of the Lord comes like a thief in the night.  1 Thessalonians 5,  Weymouth New Testament

[rosered]

Anything which becomes an idol in the temple (which is us) that is when it becomes sinful. There are many gray areas of course and we could spend much time looking at gray-area circumstances, but that is why each person has a walk and each person must examine themselves whether they be in the faith.

   You made some great points Seth  
 
  I know Paul never spoke of  "pot smoking "  in the Word
  but He did become all things to all men that he might save  some
  and  Jews dont eat pork     to be a Jew  when with them  he  did not eat pork ..  with the gents he ate whatever they offered him , thankful for the opportunity to  labour in love  to the gentiles
 to me it so depends on the circumstances  ,   His faith and more so grace of God  was so strong through  his  walk
  He  rejoiced through the suffering  for all men ...  
 wow  ,  he said idols are nothing / vanity  , to many   bellies gods/ men

But if any man love God, the same is known of him.  


 1Cr 8:4   As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that [there is] none other God but one.  
 
  Paul said we know   by the Spirit  of God that,  but many DO NOT know that
 

 1Cr 8:5   For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)  


 1Cr 8:6   But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.  


 1Cr 8:7   Howbeit [there is] not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat [it] as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.  

 1Cr 8:8   But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.  


1Cr 8:9   But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
 
But if any man love God, the same is known of him.  
  but how do you reach a drug addict ?   by  forcing them to stop  ,
 
  knew a man who loved his pot , a good man  to  who loved God and tried so  hard to stop  , went to a church  and all them voices caused him to stumble and he is  for the worse and not the better over the  whole ordeal  , alone and hurt  not able to trust ,   the church  voices made him fail  more than  his  smoking ever did .

  I am be no means justifying    him or them for what is done in the name of God  but
   just saying, many times  force gets you  no where but a little love /  and faith mixed  with  grace and  understanding goes a long long ways ,,,,,,,,,,  our strengh  is in God not in ourselves or anyone else to get us all though this life    , sometimes His grace is just sufficent  and thats all we got .
  

[WhiteWings]

I think Beloved Servant had a good point: even if Marijuana is legal, would smoking it edify God, or please the Adam in us?

Does eating, drinking, sleeping, walking, swimming, working, going to the toilet, singing, showering, vote, drive, etc etc etc edify God?

Singing can edify God sure. All the others are pretty neutral.

But they don't edify God. But still you brought in 'edify God' into teh discussion.

I didn't say that something neutral is sinful if it doesn't actively edify God. Is that what you got?

Much more actually. I was just reminding you that edifying God is not the standard of life.

This thread is about Marijuana smoking. Pot is an illegal mind altering drug.

As I wrote in my first reply it isn't illegal everywhere. Alcohol also is illegal in some places. But that are manmade rules. Jesus turned water into wine. Wine is also a mind altering drug.
If the US government forbids praying does God count your continued praying as a sin?

So if it were legal and someone smoked it would they be doing it to edify God or please the Adam in us? That is a decision people who wish to edify God have to make.

And that's why I wrote that list.
Did you eat today Seth? If so did you consider it is or isn't edifying God?

So basicly I think that edifying stuff is not what it's about. Noach was drunk too. But that was not the problem. His nakedness was. I think neither alchol or drugs is even in the slightest way against God. It does get wrong if it makes you do sinful things. No problem in smoking 5 joints on a evening. Unless you for example start swearing.

[Cardinal]

  It's all about consuming/becoming one with. Is what you're consuming edifying the flesh man Adam or the Spirit man Christ? Every man has to give an account of this choose ye this day whom ye will serve, thing. Do we choose to serve the flesh or the Spirit? All things are lawful, but not all things are expedient.

The problem I have with pot is that it gives a counterfeit peace, and a counterfeit comfort, and even a counterfeit high (joy). If we get our peace, comfort and joy from pot, then what do we need the HS for?

The defense I've heard the most often, is that God created it, so then it's "natural". Well, He MAY have created it, but He didn't create it IN YOU. Blessings....

[rosered]

It's all about consuming/becoming one with. Is what you're consuming edifying the flesh man Adam or the Spirit man Christ? Every man has to give an account of this choose ye this day whom ye will serve, thing. Do we choose to serve the flesh or the Spirit? All things are lawful, but not all things are expedient.

The problem I have with pot is that it gives a counterfeit peace, and a counterfeit comfort, and even a counterfeit high (joy). If we get our peace, comfort and joy from pot, then what do we need the HS for?

The defense I've heard the most often, is that God created it, so then it's "natural". Well, He MAY have created it, but He didn't create it IN YOU. Blessings....

  excellent point Card 
  the temporary   Adam  verses the eternal  Adam  fulling
 
   the  filling the  Spirit & soul , body  what lives and what dies   within us type desires

   till the Christ in you is  perfect / complete /mature .......
 
 
 
 

[Seth]

But they don't edify God.

I think I addressed that.

I didn't say that something neutral is sinful if it doesn't actively edify God. Is that what you got?

Much more actually. I was just reminding you that edifying God is not the standard of life.

What do you mean by "standard of life?"

This thread is about Marijuana smoking. Pot is an illegal mind altering drug.

As I wrote in my first reply it isn't illegal everywhere. Alcohol also is illegal in some places. But that are manmade rules. Jesus turned water into wine. Wine is also a mind altering drug.
If the US government forbids praying does God count your continued praying as a sin?

No to the last part. Praying is the Lord's work within us. Is smoking pot? I don't think you are paying attention to me WW. Edifying God is to embody Him in our lives for others to be an ambassador in Christ's stead. So, What I said is that those who wish to edify God smoke pot even if it were legal, would they be doing it to edify God, or please the Adam in them. In other words, would it set them back in favor of pleasing the flesh? That's something a believer would need to look at. Walking and swimming probably wouldn't have that effect. That's something beside the point of whether taking one hit in private, or being totally given over to it is sinful. That is something each believer must address within themselves as to whether their actions are detracting from "righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit" in favor of pleasing the flesh. I am not saying there is a blanket standard in that. It depends on each person to examine themselves.

So if it were legal and someone smoked it would they be doing it to edify God or please the Adam in us? That is a decision people who wish to edify God have to make.

And that's why I wrote that list.
Did you eat today Seth? If so did you consider it is or isn't edifying God?

Actually if I am glottonous then food becomes an idol. So each person must look at what they do and examine themselves to see if they are taking something and making an idol out of it. If so, THEN it becomes sinful.

So basicly I think that edifying stuff is not what it's about. Noach was drunk too. But that was not the problem. His nakedness was.

You assume it wasn't a problem. We are told not to be given over to drunkenness.

 

I think neither alchol or drugs is even in the slightest way against God.

Like I said a few times now, that is something between you and God. Corporately, I believe it is perfectly fine for a gathering of believers to decide such things and deal with them as they see fit. But individually, that is between you and God.

[WhiteWings]

But they don't edify God.

I think I addressed that.

You did. But I think you don't understand why I repeated it.

I didn't say that something neutral is sinful if it doesn't actively edify God. Is that what you got?

Much more actually. I was just reminding you that edifying God is not the standard of life.

What do you mean by "standard of life?"

There is more in life that constantly praying. Doesn't God allow us to relax once in a while?

This thread is about Marijuana smoking. Pot is an illegal mind altering drug.

As I wrote in my first reply it isn't illegal everywhere. Alcohol also is illegal in some places. But that are manmade rules. Jesus turned water into wine. Wine is also a mind altering drug.
If the US government forbids praying does God count your continued praying as a sin?

No to the last part. Praying is the Lord's work within us. Is smoking pot? I don't think you are paying attention to me WW. What I said is that those who wish to edify God smoke pot if it were legal, would they be doing it to edify God or please the Adam in them.

And this my disagrement with your view. When I ask you if walking is edifying God you say that's neutral. But if it's about a joint you suddenly speak about pleasing the Adam.

So if it were legal and someone smoked it would they be doing it to edify God or please the Adam in us? That is a decision people who wish to edify God have to make.

And that's why I wrote that list.
Did you eat today Seth? If so did you consider it is or isn't edifying God?

Actually if I am glottonous then food becomes an idol. So each person must look at what they do and examine themselves to see if they are taking something and making an idol out of it. If so, THEN it becomes sinful.

So isn't that excatly what I wrote before?It's not the joint but the sin. Food isn't a sin. But if it turns glottonous then it is.

So basicly I think that edifying stuff is not what it's about. Noach was drunk too. But that was not the problem. His nakedness was.

You assume it wasn't a problem. We are told not to be given over to drunkenness.

Doesn't say exactly what I said. Being drunk is no problem. But if you start doing unlawful things then things become a problem. The unlawful thing. Not beining drunk. For some men alcohol and/or drugs lower the barrier to for example rape women. Alcohol lowers the barrier but stepping over the barrier is "given over to drunkness".

I think neither alchol or drugs is even in the slightest way against God.

Like I said a few times now, that is something between you and God. Corporately, I believe it is perfectly fine for a gathering of believers to decide such things and deal with them as they see fit. But individually, that is between you and God.

Sure but that can be said about anything. But in this thread Willie asked if a joint is sinful; and that's what I talking about.
And a fully agree with willie: NO!

[Barry DuPont]

Fantastic thread.
Really nothing to add.
Just to say that I really enjoyed the openness and willingness to discuss the topic.

WhiteWings you make me laugh my head off.
Barry