Author Topic: #2 -- Is use of Marijuana, SINFUL?  (Read 12048 times)

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Offline Seth

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Re: #2 -- Is use of Marijuana, SINFUL?
« Reply #75 on: November 26, 2009, 08:24:22 AM »
Hi WillieH,
I had to make my answers short so didn't want you to think I am being short with YOU.  :grin: :HeartThrob:

Thanks for that answer bro, but it did not really answer my question...  :dontknow:

For the record, ...what is the definition (within your perception) of the "embodiement of God's character" bro?  

Being Christlike, soberminded, righteous, godly in this present age.  :dontknow:

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This "embodiement" is a pretty big thing... and it only leads back to Him, that which HE sent out.  If marijuana was put here by Him (and it was)... and He did not specify GUIDELINES for its use... then how can we determine MISUSE of it?

The leading of the Holy Spirit. And, by examining ourselves and our usage of it, which of course he guides us in. And anyone can say anything about what the Spirit leads them to do. But it's each person's issue according to their conscious.


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As I see it, ...except by observing it with common sense, and moderation, there is no MISUSE of it...

That's a big exception.

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JESUS threw over the tables in the temple... would THAT be part of the "embodiement"?  If so, how?

Passion for what is right. It depends on how one is led by the Spirit.



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I agree... since I have become a follower of God, I have used marijuana.  And never once was my motive to be disobedient to God... Nor did I use it to "escape" anything.

Ok.  :dontknow:


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God created SEX... and the proper USE of it is NOT SINFUL, however the IMPROPER use of it, IS SIN...

God created ALCOHOL... and the proper USE of it is NOT SINFUL, however the IMPROPER use of it IS SIN... see what I mean?

Bingo, that was my whole point. :thumbsup:

Improper use. And how do we determine what is improper? It's up the individual to examine himself with the guidance of the Spirit to know that.  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

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Anything that is within our ability to choose personal involvement, CAN be SINFUL...  but the SILENCE of Scripture concerning use of marijuana, or even Alcohol as "SIN"... is proof enough that it is NOT...

So when you ask, "is marijuana use sinful" I say "It can be." However, silence of scripture concerning the use of pot or alcohol is not proof enough for me it is not. That would be an argument from silence. I would say the improper use of anything, including pot would be sinful even though the written word does not mention pot specifically.

Quote from: willieH
~~  Is it Seth?  Have you smoked or eaten pot?  If you have, then you will KNOW that it hardly affects the mind NEGATIVELY, nor CONTROLS the mind...

~~  If you have NOT, then you are basing your statement that notes pot as "powerful" as opposed to "mudane" upon hearsay.



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Wow bro... There must be behaviors in the Bay area, that are not present in Los Angeles or Spokane!  I smoked pot for 10 solid years in Los Angeles and Spokane --- and a good 15 years (of much lesser use) in Spokane, with countless people on countless occasions, and NEVER ONCE did I ever witness NEGATIVITY arising from anyone using it in proximity to me -- NEVER ONCE!

I sure have, and I have been all around CA.
 



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What do you mean by "less than sober" bro?  "Sober" has quite a few applicable meanings...  :JCThink:

In what way or ways did it "control" your mind?  :scratchhead:

I mean that I smoked it, and then I was stoned and my thoughts became far from God, and that is just me. It controlled my mind in that way to where I did not feel in control of my thoughts.



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I see... This is understandable... but maybe marijuana was not the culprit.  Don't mean to be sarcastic... but (unfortunately) I too, have had impure thoughts during my lifetime that had nothing to do with marijuana... They were moments that I will be happy to have stricken from the record, but when this occured during the use of marijuana, it was not the marijuana that "caused" the thoughts... nor imposed control of those thoughts...  It was my mind that (in that moment) was not submitted to CHRIST, that "caused" those "impure" thoughts, not the marijuana.

Well for me, the pot was indeed the culprit.

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Each of us is different, and I salute you for abandoning that which you find is an encumberance to your service to God (marijuana)... I do not find this encumberance concerning marijuana...

That's why I said that each person needs to examine himself. That was my whole point in saying that.


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Again, what the individual personally esteems, is an individual concern.  My question in this thread was more IN GENERAL... Such as, ...what the WORD might broadcast as a direction or teaching concerning it...

Now I know your question was more in general, but in fairness, you didn't specify. IMHO The Word will let people know individually whether it's fine or not.





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Brother... ANYTHING can be IDOLIZED...


Brother, have I not been saying that?


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and most of those I know who smoke or have smoked or eaten marijuana, did not embrace it as something IDOLIZED.  

Ok,  :dontknow:

My experiences have been different.


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Idolatry is a pretty common thing in the human race.  Any man completely enamored by a beautiful woman, has indulged in this... Or anyone who just LOVES a given entertainer... or any SPORTS fanatic... or any CUISINE LOVER... or any DOG lover... or anyone who CLEANS his/her house obsessively... there is an UNENDING number of IDOLATRY considerations within human behavior...

How do we escape this? As sinful entities, we cannot.  And, IMO in some ways, we should not.

I believe Christ is what caused me to escape it.



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  Redirecting the "IDOLIZING" by giving thanks to the giftings of our Creator, in submitting ourselves to Him...

Yes, I agree.  :thumbsup:


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I am proud of my 33 year marriage to my beautiful wife, whom I remain PLEASED every time I see her face.  Does this mean I "idolize" her?  NO... it does not...

It means that I LOVE her, and CHERISH GOD for giving her to me... just as I give thanks to Him before breaking bread, and before going to sleep, for ALL the things He has given to me into my life... including the Detroit Lions...  :pointlaugh:

IDOLATRY is (IMO) to LOVE something, leaving GOD -- out of it!

Great word! Idolatry is replacing God with something else.

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As I said in my question above... If I use marijuana, and a wonderful and TRUTHFUL  revelation comes forth from within me, ...is this WRONG in some way, because marijuana was a part of it?  :mshock:

I'm really not the judge of that in each individual case. God is your judge on matters like that, not me.  :dontknow:


A
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greed bro... but aside from that, marijuana and heroin are 2 completely different things -- in 2 completely different categories.  

HEROIN

Heroin can KILL you if you overdose yourself.  
Heroin is PHYSICALLY addictive after the first few uses.
Heroin does NOT come from the ground -- AS IS.  
Heroin must be PROCESSED/manufactured in order to be used.

MARIJUANA

Marijuana cannot KILL you by overdose.
Marijuana is NOT PHYSICALLY addictive, even after hundreds of uses.
Marijuana COMES from the ground (and from GOD) -- AS IS
Marijuana needs NO PROCESSING to be used.

This is true, that heroin is different than pot. My point there was not to compare the two as similar or the same but to give and example of a gradation of things which can be more powerful than others in bringing someone to slavery. For me, food might be a bigger pull. For others pot might be that way.

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I meant by "SILENCE", that GOD chose not to mention Marijuana in the written WORD, neither did He note MISUSE of it, nor did He note any directive concerning it... i.e. --> "silence".  If NOTHING is said... then NOTHING is said.

Yes I agree, in the written word it is silent. However, the living Word is given for guidance in our daily lives, who is not silent. That was my point.



Quote from: willieH
So can EATING (I enjoy a good breakfast or dinner)...   ...or SPORTS (I enjoy sports)... or WATCHING MOVIES (I also enjoy movies -- have quite a collection!)...  

For if one ESTEEMS too highly the FOOD, or the ATHLETES, or the ACTORS, then one is IDOLIZING, and that dear brother is SIN, in the very same way, as is proposed of marijuana.


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As I previously stated... "SIN" that is not PLAINLY defined in Scripture, becomes a matter of PERSONAL conviction... and any personal conviction, must remain personal... and should not be leveled (as a measure) toward another which does not hold the same conviction...  :punish:

IOW -- you might love mayonnaise, but I do not... because I do not, ...I must be careful to not hold any ill feelings or judgment toward you -- for loving it...  :laughing7:

That I used the word "NO" in the OP... was for brevities sake, and as promised, I have had more than -- "NO" -- to say about the subject.

PS... I hope this (my belief that marijuana is NOT of itself, nor in moderate use, is evil) does not lessen our friendship in any way.   :friendstu:

WillieH, I hope I am not sounding like as though I would think differently of you. In fact I think if you read my posts, they pretty much say that there is no fast and hard rule on that subject, which is something you agree with right?

BTW, I HATE mayo. That is why I smiled when I saw that.  :laughing7:
« Last Edit: November 26, 2009, 08:54:37 AM by Seth »

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: #2 -- Is use of Marijuana, SINFUL?
« Reply #76 on: November 26, 2009, 09:47:50 AM »
Is doing something illegal sinful?
Here it's legal. Must be at least 50 shops in town here.
By law I'm allowed to grow 4 plants.
But that's not so in many other parts of the world.
So the question is: Do God's laws in any way/sometimes (partly) depend on laws of men?

Good question, WW...

NEVER do God's laws IN ANY WAY depend on the laws of men...  :laughing7:

...willieH  :laughing7:
Yeah but there is also a verse like "give the king what is of the king"???
So it could be God is completly neutral about weed but somewhere in the Bible it's implied that in the neutral cases we should follow the rules of the earthly kings....?
« Last Edit: November 26, 2009, 10:06:38 AM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline jabcat

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Re: #2 -- Is use of Marijuana, SINFUL?
« Reply #77 on: November 26, 2009, 09:54:04 AM »
 :thumbsup:  I've been tossing that around in my head tonight WW.  In I Peter 2:13, as well as a scripture in Hebrews, it talks about obeying the laws of the land as our service to God.  

As I think about this topic (and other things in my life - speeding  :mblush:) I just can't see how something's OK if I just don't get caught, if it is something that's against the law of the land.  Admittedly, I think this can be a difficult topic, in that "what if man's law contradicts God's law", etc.  However, when it comes to speeding or smoking pot, I'm thinking that may not be the case.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: #2 -- Is use of Marijuana, SINFUL?
« Reply #78 on: November 26, 2009, 10:04:53 AM »
I thought I'd take another crack at this topic.
Good choice of words for this topic Lupac :thumbsup:
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It's a plant that has many MANY values, it's a fiber,
That's hennep. The male plant. The female plant is used for weed.

Yes, I know that. I was just making a point that both plants (Male and female, they're both still cannabis.) has many uses
You should educate our local police :winkgrin:
We have an argicultural university that does all kind of experiments. You know like finding plants that need little water (Africa) The grow stuff in green houses and in fields they own. One experiment was with the male plant. To find a eco friendly fiber IIRC. The field was hidden in a corn field. For obvious reasons..... Somehow the police dicovered it. The average police officer overhere isn't very bright. You join the police if all other jobs are taken. So they got a bulldozer and destroyed the whole field :winkgrin:
No Lupac they didn't burn down the field.

Make me think of another strory. Could be a urban legend. Near a small town in Italy a certain flower grows in abundance.
Dunno how it's called in English but some flowers like pop their ultra tiny seeds in the air let the wind spread them.
Those seeds are mildly intoxicating but the plants popped nearly at teh same time and the whole town is yearly in a state of euphoria for a few weeks.
Maybe thats the garden of Eden  :laughing7:
« Last Edit: November 26, 2009, 10:11:22 AM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: #2 -- Is use of Marijuana, SINFUL?
« Reply #79 on: November 26, 2009, 10:14:22 AM »
If it's in even the slightest way sinful the answer is no.
Besides of that: Could He afford it (price)? Did He find smoking (pot or not) repulsive.

Answer: It is possible.
Basicly IMO Jesus could have done anything that's not sinful.

You know I get the impression people on this forum always look up to Father, Son and HS. As if they are the very highest authority. And yes they are. But they also present themselfs as one of us.
Yes king/judge is above people. But Father, Son, is with/among the people. God walks with us. Jesus came as a humble person. Lived with humble people. There is a lesson in that for me. He could just as well have come down as the most powerful ruler ever that with a snap of His fingers crushed whole armies.
And to be among you people you must also take part of their ways. Except of course the sinful parts.
Lol, could he afford it? Well, he OWNED it right? ;)
Humz, personally I think He payed for the food and other goods on the market. Instead of just taking it away. :winkgrin:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Molly

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Re: #2 -- Is use of Marijuana, SINFUL?
« Reply #80 on: November 26, 2009, 10:28:28 AM »
Marijuana is not the mild mannered drug it's portrayed to be.  It can have a lot of bad side effects.  In particular, the brains of children are growing and developing until 25 years of age, and it can negatively impact the developing brain by changing the brain chemistry and structural integrity of the brain which can result in behavior problems, mental problems,  addiction, and other problems for the individual and society.



Marijuana side effects come from smoking or consuming the drug and marijuana side effects influence the mind and body of the user. Marijuana side effects can be as seemingly innocent as an increased appetite to as life threatening as lung cancer. Increased likelihood for accidents is also one of the marijuana side effects. Studies show that 6 to 11 percent of fatal accidents are contributed to by marijuana side effects. Other external marijuana side effects include legal problems, work and financial problems and troubles at home.

Marijuana is most often smoked but can be eaten or steeped in tea to drink. Most over-doses occur actually when the drug is eaten because it is easier to consume a large dose all at once. Marijuana side effects from an overdose include toxic psychosis including hallucinations, delusions and a loss of self-identification. When smoked, marijuana is rolled up into a cigarette called a joint or smoked in a pipe or water pipe called a bong. Marijuana has many street names like pot, hash, chronic and there are many paraphernalia available to smoke it.

Over 11 million people smoked marijuana last month. Many may not have severe marijuana side effects from taking the drug but many people will. Marijuana side effects include physical problems like breathing difficulties and deteriorating physical abilities. Despite a popular belief, marijuana side effects speed up the heart, blood and breathing rate. The body is taxed more and this speeds up the aging process just like methamphetamines do. The marijuana side effects from this extra exertion on the body include a higher risk for lung cancer, heart attacks and strokes.

Marijuana side effects also wreak havoc on the brain when the drug is used habitually. The natural chemical balance of the brain is disrupted affecting the pleasure centers and regulatory systems. The ability to learn, remember and adapt quickly to changes is impaired by marijuana use. Depression often occurs with marijuana usage, which feeds into the cycle of more drug use to treat the pain created by drug use. This cycle of addiction is very powerful and users soon find that they cannot stop using the drug even if they want to.

Marijuana addiction is a progressive disease and marijuana side effects include withdrawal and obsessive thought with the drug when it is not made available. Addiction is identified as a compulsive, uncontrollable craving for the drug even with pending negative consequences. Often users will attempt to stop smoking marijuana for an important event such as a job interview or court hearing and find themselves using very close or just before the event. This act goes beyond a flexing of willpower. This describes being enveloped by a disease that has taken control and needs to be treated.

http://www.marijuana-addiction.net/marijuana-side-effects.htm

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: #2 -- Is use of Marijuana, SINFUL?
« Reply #81 on: November 26, 2009, 10:29:30 AM »
The Bible tells us that our mind is the enemy of God. Or something to that extend.
It blocks contact with our 'inside'.
But mild use of pot or alcohol seems to relax people. Often the whole atmosphere gets more like one of friendship.
But the brain sorta switches to a lower gear. Doesn't that mean pot reduces the enimity towards God?
Just a thought.....
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline jabcat

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Re: #2 -- Is use of Marijuana, SINFUL?
« Reply #82 on: November 26, 2009, 10:33:31 AM »
1Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.  2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.
3 ...think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith  Rom. 12

Offline Molly

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Re: #2 -- Is use of Marijuana, SINFUL?
« Reply #83 on: November 26, 2009, 10:40:34 AM »
The Bible tells us that our mind is the enemy of God. Or something to that extend.
It blocks contact with our 'inside'.
But mild use of pot or alcohol seems to relax people. Often the whole atmosphere gets more like one of friendship.
But the brain sorta switches to a lower gear. Doesn't that mean pot reduces the enimity towards God?
Just a thought.....
The Bible tells us God gives us a sound mind, not a drugged out, doped up mind.

But, more than that, think about it--these drugs started becoming widespread in our country around the time when the elites started pushing their final agenda--and they needed people to drop out and just not be present or to care what they did in the world and to the world.

So you see the Vietnam war, an undeclared illegal war, happening at the same time as the hippie make love not war generation was coming into adulthood.  That generation could have changed the course of our country because they were the baby boomers, based on sheer numbers--had they not been so diverted by sex, drugs, and rock and roll.  None of that happened by accident.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: #2 -- Is use of Marijuana, SINFUL?
« Reply #84 on: November 26, 2009, 10:42:03 AM »
 :cloud9: I'm not sure why there is such an emphasis on the fact it comes from the earth, but nearly everyone I have ever listened to about this, mentions that. So did Cain's offering and look where it got him. And since our body is God's temple, and our heart is the stone(y) altar, isn't that like an offering from the ground again? Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: #2 -- Is use of Marijuana, SINFUL?
« Reply #85 on: November 26, 2009, 10:43:47 AM »
Marijuana is not the mild mannered drug it's portrayed to be.
According to many. And according to many it's not.
Here we have a few Christian political parties. They set a standard of lies that is even out of reach for satan.
Anyway joint-is-bad scientificly backed reports often come from those circles.
But equally scientific reports state it's harmless.

I think it's extremly important not to confuse cannabis with secret ingredient X.
Best example is perhaps XTC.
It was used very often on house parties. If used pure and with drinking lots of water it's a great drug to keep dancing all night long. But some criminal minds started mixing in all kinda stuff like PCP and whatever is cheap. Then it got really dangerous.

For pot I'm not so sure, so I hope air head Willie  :laughing7: will correct me if I'm wrong.
I see people growing cannabis by just taking a large bucket put in a few seeds and water the plant. That's it.
I also see it done much more profesional. Plants don't drink water but lets call it 'chemical substance'.
Maybe the stuff is harmless. But it just as well could be bad. In that case the joint is bad. Then we should ask ourself the question. What exactly is bad? The natural cannabis plant or the toxic waste man puts in it.

If I give you a poisoned apple and you die. Did you die of the apple or the poison....?
« Last Edit: November 26, 2009, 10:48:06 AM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline jabcat

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Re: #2 -- Is use of Marijuana, SINFUL?
« Reply #86 on: November 26, 2009, 10:50:53 AM »
The Bible tells us that our mind is the enemy of God. Or something to that extend.
It blocks contact with our 'inside'.
But mild use of pot or alcohol seems to relax people. Often the whole atmosphere gets more like one of friendship.
But the brain sorta switches to a lower gear. Doesn't that mean pot reduces the enimity towards God?
Just a thought.....
The Bible tells us God gives us a sound mind, not a drugged out, doped up mind.

But, more than that, think about it--these drugs started becoming widespread in our country around the time when the elites started pushing their final agenda--and they needed people to drop out and just not be present or to care what they did in the world and to the world.

So you see the Vietnam war, an undeclared illegal war, happening at the same time as the hippie make love not war generation was coming into adulthood.  That generation could have changed the course of our country because they were the baby boomers, based on sheer numbers--had they not been so diverted by sex, drugs, and rock and roll.  None of that happened by accident.

I've been thinking along these lines Molly.  In fact, I've said what's happening right now is a culmination of what started in the 60's.  We've just been building to this point.  I believe if one looks back with open eyes, there are MANY signs littered along the way.  God help us.  Bring your salvation and deliverance.  Judgment begins at the house of the Lord.  Thankfully, when God's judgments are in the land, we learn righteousness.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2009, 10:56:00 AM by jabcat »

Offline Molly

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Re: #2 -- Is use of Marijuana, SINFUL?
« Reply #87 on: November 26, 2009, 10:54:24 AM »
Quote
What exactly is bad? The natural cannabis plant or the toxic waste man put in it.

I'm not going to search for the scientific studies tonight, but I know they exist because I've seen them.  Any mind altering drug is dangerous because it is changing the chemistry of the brain.  Once you change the chemistry of the brain, you have no guarantee it will revert to normal, especially in younger subjects.  We are talking here about a drug that can cause halucinations, delusions, paranoia, and is well known as a stepping stone to the opiates and other addictive drugs.

This whole drug thing is a way to get people to drop out and not care what they do.  It's been used for decades to control societies all over the world.  How do you think the British built their empire?

Offline Cardinal

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Re: #2 -- Is use of Marijuana, SINFUL?
« Reply #88 on: November 26, 2009, 11:01:05 AM »
 :cloud9: I've talked to people in my lifetime that there in the formation of some organizations that will remain nameless from their very beginnings were tied into the cold war Russians funds trying to make us communist leaning people.

And they said that the Russians also financed the beginnings of the drug trade here for the express purpose of destroying us from within. Given that introduced generational curses, I'd say they've done a pretty good job of it. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Molly

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Re: #2 -- Is use of Marijuana, SINFUL?
« Reply #89 on: November 26, 2009, 11:05:46 AM »
If somebody could just tell these kids whose pockets their money is going into so they can be destroyed in body, mind, and soul, and what that money is being used for, none of them would ever touch another drug again.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: #2 -- Is use of Marijuana, SINFUL?
« Reply #90 on: November 26, 2009, 11:18:16 AM »
whose pockets their money is going into
You mean the Crack Import Agency?  :laughing7:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Molly

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Re: #2 -- Is use of Marijuana, SINFUL?
« Reply #91 on: November 26, 2009, 11:20:13 AM »
 :Whistle:

noname

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Re: #2 -- Is use of Marijuana, SINFUL?
« Reply #92 on: November 26, 2009, 02:56:04 PM »
intersting how this thread got 4 pages with replies and the alcohol one only 1 so far...

i'm addicted to jelly sweets...is that an adamic sin?

natcat86

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Re: #2 -- Is use of Marijuana, SINFUL?
« Reply #93 on: November 26, 2009, 04:51:40 PM »
Well maybe in America pot smoking is all part of a conspiracy to dull the minds of the proles. But drugs like weed have been used for thousands of years by civilisations from all over the world, for medicine, spiritual experience, social bonding experiences and just plain fun.

natcat86

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Re: #2 -- Is use of Marijuana, SINFUL?
« Reply #94 on: November 26, 2009, 04:52:36 PM »
Its not all about America guys!  :gblum:

:kiss2:

Offline Cardinal

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Re: #2 -- Is use of Marijuana, SINFUL?
« Reply #95 on: November 26, 2009, 05:29:26 PM »
 :cloud9: whah??? You didn't get the memo, either? LOL Happy Thanksgiving guys.........
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Lupac

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Re: #2 -- Is use of Marijuana, SINFUL?
« Reply #96 on: November 26, 2009, 05:52:58 PM »
I wasn't going to reply again, but Molly, congratulations! I'm going to pick apart ever paragraph you posted from the lying marijuana addiction site. I will use http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/ as my main source, since they cite their sources, unlike your site.

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Marijuana is not the mild mannered drug it's portrayed to be.  It can have a lot of bad side effects.  In particular, the brains of children are growing and developing until 25 years of age, and it can negatively impact the developing brain by changing the brain chemistry and structural integrity of the brain which can result in behavior problems, mental problems,  addiction, and other problems for the individual and society.

I want you to show me a study where the evidence led to that conclusion.

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Myth: Marijuana Can Cause Permanent Mental Illness. Among adolescents, even occasional marijuana use may cause psychological damage. During intoxication, marijuana users become irrational and often behave erratically.

Fact: There is no convincing scientific evidence that marijuana causes psychological damage or mental illness in either teenagers or adults. Some marijuana users experience psychological distress following marijuana ingestion, which may include feelings of panic, anxiety, and paranoia. Such experiences can be frightening, but the effects are temporary. With very large doses, marijuana can cause temporary toxic psychosis. This occurs rarely, and almost always when marijuana is eaten rather than smoked. Marijuana does not cause profound changes in people's behavior.

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      Iverson, Leslie. "Long-term effects of exposure to cannabis." Current Opinion in Pharmacology 5(2005): 69-72.

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      Weiser and Noy. "Interpreting the association between cannabis use and increased risk of schizophrenia." Dialogues in Clincal Neuroscience 1(2005): 81-85.
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      "Cannabis use will impair but not damage mental health." London Telegraph. 23 January 2006.

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      Andreasson, S. et al. "Cannabis and Schizophrenia: A Longitudinal study of Swedish Conscripts," The Lancet  2 (1987): 1483-86.

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      Degenhardt, Louisa, Wayne Hall and Michael Lynskey.  "Testing hypotheses about the relationship between cannabis use and psychosis," Drug and Alcohol Dependence 71 (2003): 42-4.

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      Weil, A. "Adverse Reactions to Marijuana: Classification and Suggested Treatment." New England Journal of Medicine 282 (1970): 997-1000.

and

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Myth: Marijuana Is More Potent Today Than In The Past. Adults who used marijuana in the 1960s and 1970s fail to realize that when today's youth use marijuana they are using a much more dangerous drug.

Fact: When today's youth use marijuana, they are using the same drug used by youth in the 1960s and 1970s. A small number of low-THC samples seized by the Drug Enforcement Administration are used to calculate a dramatic increase in potency. However, these samples were not representative of the marijuana generally available to users during this era. Potency data from the early 1980s to the present are more reliable, and they show no increase in the average THC content of marijuana. Even if marijuana potency were to increase, it would not necessarily make the drug more dangerous. Marijuana that varies quite substantially in potency produces similar psychoactive effects.

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      King LA, Carpentier C, Griffiths P. "Cannabis potency in Europe." Addiction. 2005 Jul; 100(7):884-6
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      Henneberger, Melinda. "Pot Surges Back, But It's, Like, a Whole New World." New York Times 6 February 1994: E18.

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      Brown, Lee. "Interview with Lee Brown," Dallas Morning News 21 May 1995.

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      Drug Enforcement Administration. U.S. Drug Threat Assessment, 1993. Washington, DC: U.S. Department of Justice, 1993.

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      Kleiman, Mark A.R. Marijuana: Costs of Abuse, Costs of Control. Westport: Greenwood Press, 1989. 29.

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      Bennett, William. Director of National Drug Control Policy, remarks at Conference of Mayors. 23 April 1990.


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Marijuana side effects come from smoking or consuming the drug and marijuana side effects influence the mind and body of the user. Marijuana side effects can be as seemingly innocent as an increased appetite to as life threatening as lung cancer. Increased likelihood for accidents is also one of the marijuana side effects. Studies show that 6 to 11 percent of fatal accidents are contributed to by marijuana side effects. Other external marijuana side effects include legal problems, work and financial problems and troubles at home.

YOU CAN'T GET LUNG CANCER FROM SMOKING CANNABIS! Damn, how many times do I have to repeat this. No study has even led to evidence that it might cause cancer. I'll cite TWO sources for this, one is from http://hightimes.com/news/ht_admin/5508

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For 30 years, Donald Tashkin has studied the effects of marijuana on lung function. His work has been funded by the vehemently anti-marijuana National Institute on Drug Abuse, which has long sought to demonstrate that marijuana causes lung cancer. After 3 decades of anti-drug research, here's what Tashkin has to say about marijuana laws:


    "Early on, when our research appeared as if there would be a negative impact on lung health, I was opposed to legalization because I thought it would lead to increased use and that would lead to increased health effects," Tashkin says. "But at this point, I'd be in favor of legalization. I wouldn't encourage anybody to smoke any substances. But I don't think it should be stigmatized as an illegal substance. Tobacco smoking causes far more harm. And in terms of an intoxicant, alcohol causes far more harm." [McClatchy]

    UCLA's Tashkin studied heavy marijuana smokers to determine whether the use led to increased risk of lung cancer and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, or COPD. He hypothesized that there would be a definitive link between cancer and marijuana smoking, but the results proved otherwise.

     

    "What we found instead was no association and even a suggestion of some protective effect," says Tashkin, whose research was the largest case-control study ever conducted.

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Myth: Marijuana is More Damaging to the Lungs Than Tobacco. Marijuana smokers are at a high risk of developing lung cancer, bronchitis, and emphysema.

Fact: Moderate smoking of marijuana appears to pose minimal danger to the lungs. Like tobacco smoke, marijuana smoke contains a number of irritants and carcinogens. But marijuana users typically smoke much less often than tobacco smokers, and over time, inhale much less smoke. As a result, the risk of serious lung damage should be lower in marijuana smokers. There have been no reports of lung cancer related solely to marijuana, and in a large study presented to the American Thoracic Society in 2006, even heavy users of smoked marijuana were found not to have any increased risk of lung cancer. Unlike heavy tobacco smokers, heavy marijuana smokers exhibit no obstruction of the lung's small airway. That indicates that people will not develop emphysema from smoking marijuana.

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      Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse. "Legalization: Panacea or Pandora's Box." New York. (1995): 36.

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      Turner, Carlton E. The Marijuana Controversy. Rockville: American Council for Drug Education, 1981.

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      Nahas, Gabriel G. and Nicholas A. Pace. Letter. "Marijuana as Chemotherapy Aid Poses Hazards." New York Times 4 December 1993: A20.

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      Inaba, Darryl S. and William E. Cohen. Uppers, Downers, All-Arounders: Physical and Mental Effects of Psychoactive Drugs. 2nd ed. Ashland: CNS Productions, 1995. 174.

As for the driving accidents:

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Myth: Marijuana Use is a Major Cause Of Highway Accidents. Like alcohol, marijuana impairs psychomotor function and decreases driving ability. If marijuana use increases, an increase in of traffic fatalities is inevitable.

Fact: There is no compelling evidence that marijuana contributes substantially to traffic accidents and fatalities. At some doses, marijuana affects perception and psychomotor performances- changes which could impair driving ability. However, in driving studies, marijuana produces little or no car-handling impairment- consistently less than produced by low moderate doses of alcohol and many legal medications. In contrast to alcohol, which tends to increase risky driving practices, marijuana tends to make subjects more cautious. Surveys of fatally injured drivers show that when THC is detected in the blood, alcohol is almost always detected as well. For some individuals, marijuana may play a role in bad driving. The overall rate of highway accidents appears not to be significantly affected by marijuana's widespread use in society.

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      Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse. "Legalization: Panacea or Pandora's Box". New York. (1995):36.

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      Swan, Neil. "A Look at Marijuana's Harmful Effects." NIDA Notes. 9.2 (1994): 14.

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      Moskowitz, Herbert and Robert Petersen. Marijuana and Driving: A Review. Rockville: American Council for Drug Education, 1982. 7.

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      Mann, Peggy. Marijuana Alert. New York: McGraw-Hill, 1985. 265.


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Marijuana is most often smoked but can be eaten or steeped in tea to drink. Most over-doses occur actually when the drug is eaten because it is easier to consume a large dose all at once. Marijuana side effects from an overdose include toxic psychosis including hallucinations, delusions and a loss of self-identification. When smoked, marijuana is rolled up into a cigarette called a joint or smoked in a pipe or water pipe called a bong. Marijuana has many street names like pot, hash, chronic and there are many paraphernalia available to smoke it.

First of all, THC, and other cannabinoids are not water soluble, this means you can't collect it in water by cooking it in water. Just wanted to make that clear. YOU CANNOT OVERDOSE ON CANNABIS! Read this:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/827177/how_marijuana_can_kill_you_why_a_cannabis.html?cat=22

That's right, you'd have to eat or smoke 1500 pounds of the stuff in 15 minutes! You show me someone who can do that. Also, they get the names wrong, pot is fine, hash is made from just the tri... You know what? Forget it.

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Over 11 million people smoked marijuana last month. Many may not have severe marijuana side effects from taking the drug but many people will. Marijuana side effects include physical problems like breathing difficulties and deteriorating physical abilities. Despite a popular belief, marijuana side effects speed up the heart, blood and breathing rate. The body is taxed more and this speeds up the aging process just like methamphetamines do. The marijuana side effects from this extra exertion on the body include a higher risk for lung cancer, heart attacks and strokes.

What, really? You believe this? It speeds up aging like meth? Wha? I'm stumped, only because that argument is so stupid, no one has ever made it before. I will leave you with this:

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Myth: Marijuana's Harms Have Been Proved Scientifically. In the 1960s and 1970s, many people believed that marijuana was harmless. Today we know that marijuana is much more dangerous than previously believed.

Fact: In 1972, after reviewing the scientific evidence, the National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse concluded that while marijuana was not entirely safe, its dangers had been grossly overstated. Since then, researchers have conducted thousands of studies of humans, animals, and cell cultures. None reveal any findings dramatically different from those described by the National Commission in 1972. In 1995, based on thirty years of scientific research editors of the British medical journal Lancet concluded that "the smoking of cannabis, even long term, is not harmful to health."

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      United States. National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse. Marihuana: A signal of misunderstanding. Shafer Commission Report. Washington, D.C.: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1972.

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      "Deglamorising Cannabis." Editorial. The Lancet 356:11(1995): 124

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Marijuana side effects also wreak havoc on the brain when the drug is used habitually. The natural chemical balance of the brain is disrupted affecting the pleasure centers and regulatory systems. The ability to learn, remember and adapt quickly to changes is impaired by marijuana use. Depression often occurs with marijuana usage, which feeds into the cycle of more drug use to treat the pain created by drug use. This cycle of addiction is very powerful and users soon find that they cannot stop using the drug even if they want to.

Marijuana addiction is a progressive disease and marijuana side effects include withdrawal and obsessive thought with the drug when it is not made available. Addiction is identified as a compulsive, uncontrollable craving for the drug even with pending negative consequences. Often users will attempt to stop smoking marijuana for an important event such as a job interview or court hearing and find themselves using very close or just before the event. This act goes beyond a flexing of willpower. This describes being enveloped by a disease that has taken control and needs to be treated.

http://www.marijuana-addiction.net/marijuana-side-effects.htm

These arguments are so off the wall, I don't even know how to reply to them. It's like, arguing a TV is dangerous because something could come out of the screen and kill you.

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Myth: Marijuana Impairs Memory and Cognition. Under the influence of marijuana, people are unable to think rationally and intelligently. Chronic marijuana use causes permanent mental impairment.

Fact: Marijuana produces immediate, temporary changes in thoughts, perceptions, and information processing. The cognitive process most clearly affected by marijuana is short-term memory. In laboratory studies, subjects under the influence of marijuana have no trouble remembering things they learned previously. However, they display diminished capacity to learn and recall new information. This diminishment only lasts for the duration of the intoxication. There is no convincing evidence that heavy long-term marijuana use permanently impairs memory or other cognitive functions.

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      Wetzel, C.D. et al., "Remote Memory During Marijuana Intoxication," Psychopharmacology 76 (1982): 278-81.

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      Deadwyler, S.A. et al., "The Effects of Delta-9-THC on Mechanisms of Learning and Memory." Neurobiology of Drug Abuse:  Learning and Memory. Ed. L. Erinoff. Rockville, MD: National Institute on Drug Abuse 1990. 79-83.

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      Block, R.I. et al., "Acute Effects of Marijuana on Cognition: Relationships to Chronic Effects and Smoking Techniques." Pharmacology Biochemistry and Behavior 43 (1992): 907-917.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: #2 -- Is use of Marijuana, SINFUL?
« Reply #97 on: November 26, 2009, 06:04:31 PM »
Happy Thanksgiving guys.........
That holyday is completly gone here.
Fun fact: First celebration in the (now) USA St. Augustine Florida September 8th 1565
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: #2 -- Is use of Marijuana, SINFUL?
« Reply #98 on: November 26, 2009, 06:05:33 PM »
One of the things that the Lord spoke to me about this subject was the point of origin and the transportation/distribution of this plant.
Many lives are lost/destroyed including the innocent and children with the production of this plant.
Machine guns and murder go hand-in-hand with the demand for it's use.
Many lives would be saved if people would forgo their personal use and pleasure.

Lupac

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Re: #2 -- Is use of Marijuana, SINFUL?
« Reply #99 on: November 26, 2009, 06:08:59 PM »
Marijuana is not the mild mannered drug it's portrayed to be.
According to many. And according to many it's not.
Here we have a few Christian political parties. They set a standard of lies that is even out of reach for satan.
Anyway joint-is-bad scientificly backed reports often come from those circles.
But equally scientific reports state it's harmless.

I think it's extremly important not to confuse cannabis with secret ingredient X.
Best example is perhaps XTC.
It was used very often on house parties. If used pure and with drinking lots of water it's a great drug to keep dancing all night long. But some criminal minds started mixing in all kinda stuff like PCP and whatever is cheap. Then it got really dangerous.

For pot I'm not so sure, so I hope air head Willie  :laughing7: will correct me if I'm wrong.
I see people growing cannabis by just taking a large bucket put in a few seeds and water the plant. That's it.
I also see it done much more profesional. Plants don't drink water but lets call it 'chemical substance'.
Maybe the stuff is harmless. But it just as well could be bad. In that case the joint is bad. Then we should ask ourself the question. What exactly is bad? The natural cannabis plant or the toxic waste man puts in it.

If I give you a poisoned apple and you die. Did you die of the apple or the poison....?

Very few people will lace weed, because of one simple fact. It scares customers away. The dealer is trying to make money, other drugs cost money, sometimes more than the weed itself. However, there are some things done to street weed that make it dangerous. It's referred to as "grit weed" here in America. The dealer will add things like ground up glass, or an unidentifiable powered to make it weigh more. This is dangerous, but it isn't the cannabis' fault.

One of the things that the Lord spoke to me about this subject was the point of origin and the transportation/distribution of this plant.
Many lives are lost/destroyed including the innocent and children with the production of this plant.
Machine guns and murder go hand-in-hand with the demand for it's use.
Many lives would be saved if people would forgo their personal use and pleasure.

Ah, the old "Marijuana Funds Terrorism" argument. First of all, the only people that destroy their lives are the dealers, and the ones growing it. Because it's illegal. (In the USA) The DEA has destroyed more lives than every illegal drug combined. I suggest you watch a movie called "The Union". Just search on google videos and you'll find it.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2009, 06:15:28 PM by Lupac »