Author Topic: "EVIL" ......... it's creation and use  (Read 666 times)

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Hennessey

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"EVIL" ......... it's creation and use
« on: November 29, 2007, 01:45:51 AM »
This is taken from an an ancient post of mine and I can't remember whom I borrowed some of the thoughts from or who first compiled the list of scriptures. Rather than mix it in the "freewill?sovereignty" discussion which wore me out I thought to just post it here)

In Exodus we are told, "The people stood at a distance, while Moses drew near to the thick darkness where God was" (Exodus 20:21).

In the second book of Samuel God speaks to David who describes the event saying, "Thick darkness was under his feet and he made darkness around him a canopy (2 Samuel 22:10-14).

In the first book of Kings' story of the dedication of the Temple, Solomon said, "The Lord has said that he would dwell in thick darkness" (1 Kings 8:10-12).

In Psalm 97, we hear, "The Lord is King! Let the earth rejoice; let the many coastlands be glad! Clouds and thick darkness are all around him; righteousness and justice are the foundation of his throne" (Psalm 97:1-2).

The prophet Isaiah told us a lot about light and darkness, particularly saying that the Messiah would be a light to the nations. But Isaiah also wrote, "I will give you treasures of darkness and riches hidden in secret places, so that you may know that it is I, the Lord, the God of Israel, who call you by name" (Isaiah 45:3).

       Some people cannot comprehend that God is the creator, sustainer, and orchestrator of all things good and evil. They do not recognize that all evil originates in God. Instead they think that God is at war with evil, and that the rumor of his total sovereignty is a myth. This doctrine is the deification of Satan, and elevates the carnal mind of man to the status of creator. Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator.

       The truth is quite the opposite. God is not at war with evil, he empowers it. If God has an enemy, it exists in your mind. Satan is a created entity that does the bidding of the master like a whipped dog, and you are no better. Neither you nor Satan can modify God's plan in any fashion at all. Nothing in this universe happens except by God's command. All things are in accord with his supreme wisdom. Nothing can violate his will. All the actions of Satan and man have been foreseen and arranged by God.

       This does not mean that evil is good. This means that evil is of God. You should not condone sin in any form at any time, for you are not God. God's privileges are far greater than yours. You must come to recognize that every evil action has been ordained for a supernal purpose. Evil works the work of God. It is part of his plan and it exists to accomplish his will.


Scriptures:  God Creates and utilizes Evil
 

Genesis 3:1       

Genesis 3:16     

Genesis 3:22     

Genesis 22:2     

Genesis 45:8     

Genesis 50:20   

Exodus 7:3         

Exodus 10:1       

Exodus 20:21     

Exodus 32:14     

Leviticus 23:17   

Numbers 21:6   

Deuteronomy 2:30           

Deuteronomy 7:16           

Deuteronomy 13:8           

Deuteronomy 29:21         

Deuteronomy 32:39         

Joshua 23:15     

Judges 9:23       

Judges 14:4       

1 Samuel 15:2-3

1 Samuel 16:2   

1 Samuel 16:14 

2 Samuel 12:11 

2 Samuel 12:15 

2 Samuel 24:16 

1 Kings 9:9       

1 Kings 14:10   

1 Kings 22:22   

2 Kings 6:33     

2 Kings 22:16   

1 Chronicles 21:13-14     

1 Chronicles 21:15         

2 Chronicles 10:15         

Nehemiah 13:18

Job 2:3

Job 2:10           

Job 9:22           

Job 12:22         

Job 13:15         

Job 19:6           

Job 19:8           

Job 19:21         

Job 30:26         

Job 42:7           

Psalm 44:9       

Psalm 44:12     

Psalm 46:8       

Psalm 71:20     

Psalm 90:3       

Psalm 102:9-10 

Psalm 109:29   

Psalm 116:15   

Proverbs 21:1     

Isaiah 1:28       

Isaiah 3:4         

Isaiah 9:19       

Isaiah 30:20       

Isaiah 31:2       

Isaiah 40:22       

Isaiah 42:14       

Isaiah 42:24       

Isaiah 43:28       

Isaiah 48:8       

Isaiah 53:10       

Isaiah 54:16       

Isaiah 60:10       

Isaiah 66:16       

Jeremiah 4:6     

Jeremiah 11:23 

Jeremiah 12:1-2

Jeremiah 18:4   

Jeremiah 18:8   

Jeremiah 18:11 

Jeremiah 19:3   

Jeremiah 21:5-7

Jeremiah 21:10 

Jeremiah 23:12 

Jeremiah 25:29 

Jeremiah 26:3   

Jeremiah 26:19 

Jeremiah 35:17 

Jeremiah 45:3   

Jeremiah 45:5   

Jeremiah 51:7   

Ezekiel 3:20       

Ezekiel 5:11       

Ezekiel 7:4         

Ezekiel 7:9         

Ezekiel 8:18       

Ezekiel 9:4-6     

Ezekiel 9:9         

Ezekiel 14:21     

Daniel 6:26       

Daniel 9:24       

Daniel 11:36     

Daniel 12:7       

Hosea 5:15       

Hosea 6:1         

Hosea 9:16       

Joel 2:25           

Amos 3:6         

Amos 9:3         

Jonah 3:10       

Micah 1:12       

Micah 4:10       

Matthew 4:1     

Matthew 4:10   

Matthew 11:27   

Matthew 13:33   

Matthew 26:39   

Luke 9:53         

Luke 22:31-32   

John 9:2-3         

Acts 9:16         

Romans 8:20     
Romans 9:18     

2 Corinthians 12:7           

2 Corinthians 12:9           

Galatians 6:17   

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 

2 Thessalonians 2:13       

Hebrews 2:10   

Hebrews 10:9   

Revelation 17:17 

 

Offline AbbasChild

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Re: "EVIL" ......... it's creation and use
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2007, 12:18:37 PM »
Hi Jack,
just wanted to say that I don't believe that Father is at war with evil (even though there are scriptures that say that He hates it). Just wanted to point out that while I understand where you are coming from and why this is so important to you (I also think that the idea that the universe is a battlefield between two almost equal powers is absolute heresy), I wanted to point our that it doesn't say anywhere that our Father is darkness. He might hide and clothe Himself in darkness and even make it, but He Himself is Light and there is no darkness in Him at all. That's why I think it is wrong to say that darkness or evil orginates from within Him. Rather it is Him withdrawing something of His Light and Goodness that brings forth darkness and evil (for whatever reason). Now all this is still in His hands, cause He is omnipresent. However, what I have a problem with is that it could look like you are saying that there is darkness in the Father, in His heart or center. Scripture is also very clear that He is Good, it doesn't say anywhere that He is evil (which I don't believe you are saying by the way). This is not to criticise you, just something I personally would feel uncomfortable with in the way it is expressed (but hey, it is almost impossible to describe the mystical things of our Heavenly Father in human language). While Father obviously created the temporal tension in the universe (which is also an inadequate way of putting it I think and I understand how it could be misunderstood) He also makes it very clear what He thinks of evi and darkness.

Amos 5:14-15 "Seek good and not evil, that you may live, and so the Lord, the God of hosts, shall be with you, as you say. Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate."

Proverbs 8:13. "The fear of the Lord is to hate evil, pride, arrogancy, and the evil way."

Psalm 97:10 "O ye who love the Lord, hate evil."

Romans 12:9 "Abhor that which is evil and cleave to that which is good."

As I said that doesn't mean that the universe is a battle between Light and darkness. It just means that one of them is temporaly and the other one will remain. Both have a purpose. Another thing is that I believe that what comes out of the Light is eternal, because of its nature, while everything that was created in another way (by withdrawing this Light) will cease. The Light shines in the darkness and when darkness is swallowed up in His Light, it will be transformed into Light, and evil into Goodness.

By the way I don't think that you want to justify evil, that was not the reason why I posted the scriptures. No one who has read your writings-especially on my church- would come away with that impression. I still think that human language is very inadequate to describe all this Divine mysteries and that's one of the reasons why we end up in all this debates (sometimes of course we simply miss the point and need to grow out of our own thinking).

Blessings,

Florian
« Last Edit: November 29, 2007, 03:55:40 PM by Floyd »
It is much more possible for the sun to give out darkness than for God to do or be, or give out anything but Blessing and Goodness.- William Law

Man can certainly flee from God... but he cannot escape him. He can certainly hate God and be hateful to God, but he cannot change into its opposite the eternal love of God which triumphs even in his hate. --Karl Barth

Offline Pierac

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Re: "EVIL" ......... it's creation and use
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2007, 04:48:42 PM »

Quote from: Hennessey
Some people cannot comprehend that God is the creator, sustainer, and orchestrator of all things good and evil. They do not recognize that all evil originates in God. Instead they think that God is at war with evil, and that the rumor of his total sovereignty is a myth. This doctrine is the deification of Satan, and elevates the carnal mind of man to the status of creator. Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator….This does not mean that evil is good. This means that evil is of God. You should not condone sin in any form at any time, for you are not God. God's privileges are far greater than yours. You must come to recognize that every evil action has been ordained for a supernal purpose. Evil works the work of God. It is part of his plan and it exists to accomplish his will.

This is a hard concept to wrap our minds around. So I have a question. A serious question. Let's say I bought a puppy, A pit bull puppy. And I treated it with kindness and love but the puppy grew into a dog that chose to be mean (evil). This dog would let no one near him but me.  Any one who attempted to offer kindness was greeted with rage and an attempt to rip that person apart.  Let's say that one day I saw children playing across the street in an empty field. I then opened my front door and let that dog out without a leash. The dog rushes across the street and proceeds to kill the children. Would I be innocent?  Who would  be the first person the police would contact.  Me, why? Because I had authority over that dog.

Now, let's look at Satan.  God created Satan, either he fell from grace or he was created the way he is from the beginning. Either way, God has authority over him. Yet, Satan roams free. A powerful spiritual being running free attacking children.

Luk 8:12  "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.

Even after he is chained back up in the yard, he is released on the children again.

Rev 20:7  When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,  and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.

Who's in authority here?  Yet a powerful spiritual being is released on weak flesh. Did the children that had the word in their heart ever stand a chance?  I don't think so.  Do the nations of the four corner of the earth have a chance?  Probably not. So could the answer be God has a plan? A God of love that has a plan that includes evil?  Could it be?






Offline Cardinal

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Re: "EVIL" ......... it's creation and use
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2007, 05:14:52 PM »
 :cloud9: The revelation of Him being sovereign came to me as I was literally facing the imminent death of my body. Perhaps one has to stare death in the face before He makes Himself known in this way fully? I don't know; I just know what He made life in me and without it I would be waiting on y'all to rise up in Him and resurrect me from the REALLY dead dead, LOL.....so to GOD be ALL the glory......even the glory terrestrial......Blessings to all......
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Hennessey

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Re: "EVIL" ......... it's creation and use
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2007, 05:29:27 PM »
Quote
Perhaps one has to stare death in the face before He makes Himself known in this way fully?

Yes Card, this is where it becomes heart knowledge.

Offline studier

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Re: "EVIL" ......... it's creation and use
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2007, 02:53:14 AM »

Quote from: Hennessey
Some people cannot comprehend that God is the creator, sustainer, and orchestrator of all things good and evil. They do not recognize that all evil originates in God. Instead they think that God is at war with evil, and that the rumor of his total sovereignty is a myth. This doctrine is the deification of Satan, and elevates the carnal mind of man to the status of creator. Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator….This does not mean that evil is good. This means that evil is of God. You should not condone sin in any form at any time, for you are not God. God's privileges are far greater than yours. You must come to recognize that every evil action has been ordained for a supernal purpose. Evil works the work of God. It is part of his plan and it exists to accomplish his will.

This is a hard concept to wrap our minds around. So I have a question. A serious question. Let's say I bought a puppy, A pit bull puppy. And I treated it with kindness and love but the puppy grew into a dog that chose to be mean (evil). This dog would let no one near him but me.  Any one who attempted to offer kindness was greeted with rage and an attempt to rip that person apart.  Let's say that one day I saw children playing across the street in an empty field. I then opened my front door and let that dog out without a leash. The dog rushes across the street and proceeds to kill the children. Would I be innocent?  Who would  be the first person the police would contact.  Me, why? Because I had authority over that dog.

Now, let's look at Satan.  God created Satan, either he fell from grace or he was created the way he is from the beginning. Either way, God has authority over him. Yet, Satan roams free. A powerful spiritual being running free attacking children.

Luk 8:12  "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.

Even after he is chained back up in the yard, he is released on the children again.

Rev 20:7  When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,  and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.

Who's in authority here?  Yet a powerful spiritual being is released on weak flesh. Did the children that had the word in their heart ever stand a chance?  I don't think so.  Do the nations of the four corner of the earth have a chance?  Probably not. So could the answer be God has a plan? A God of love that has a plan that includes evil?  Could it be?

His plan includes evil, but you will find no place in Scripture; nor any thought but of the flesh; which blames God for the evil acts we do, and the evil acts we are faced with. God cannot be tempted with evil, therefore God has never done evil. The problem is evil, there is two types of evil in this world; one which is subjective evil (Which is only a perception of evil and has no-one to blame it is only subjectly evil to the one experiencing it) and objective evil.

God has never committed objective evil, but He is committing subjective evil to all creation. Only those who do objective evil, are responsible for the evil they cause; those who perform subjective evil are not guilty of objective evil, but the evil they do is very real to those subjected to it. The problem comes when one cannot distinguish the difference between the two. No matter how this is explained, only those who can distinguish between subjective and objective evil, will be able to see it because those who mistake subjective evil for objective evil, will always see it objectively not realizing the subjectivity of the evil they are seeing. The flesh will never admit that it is guilty of objective evil; it will always blame others for it's actions.

rejean

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Re: "EVIL" ......... it's creation and use
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2007, 06:04:39 AM »
The Bible attributes far greater importance to spiritual sight than to the physical. Jesus used the occasion of healing the man blind from birth to point out the reprehensibility of the Pharisees because they professed to be those with spiritual sight and willfully refused to come out of their blind condition. They were like those who loved darkness rather than light. (Joh 9:39-41; 3:19, 20) The apostle Paul spoke to the Ephesian congregation about having the eyes of their heart enlightened. (Eph 1:16, 18) Jesus points out that those who profess to be Christians but who are not conscious of their spiritual need are blind and naked, not discerning their pitiful, groping condition. (Re 3:17) Just as being in darkness for a long period of time will cause blindness to the natural eyes, the apostle John points out that a Christian who hates his brother is walking aimlessly in a blinding darkness (1Jo 2:11); and Peter warns that one not developing Christian fruitage, the greatest of which is love, is "blind, shutting his eyes to the light." (2Pe 1:5-9) The source of such darkness and spiritual blindness is Satan the Devil, who, transforming himself into an angel of light, actually is "the god of this system of things" and the god of darkness who has blinded the minds of the unbelievers so that they do not discern the good news about the Christ.—Lu 22:53; 2Co 4:4; 11:14, 15.