Author Topic: Why are most christians so cold hearted towards non-christians  (Read 3969 times)

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Shadow

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I am new to this forum so please forgive me if I've posted this in the wrong section  :mblush:

I honestly don't know where to turn, I have been viewing a few threads on this forum and followed links to other forums where the topic of Universal Salvation has been discussed, what has shocked and distressed me more than anything is the total lack of empathy/concern by those that claim to be the "elect" towards those that aren't christians, their attitude seems to be (I'm all right Jack, and that's all that matters)

I'd love more than anything to believe that there is no eternal hell, and that everyone goes to heaven eventually (unfortunately I'm not 100% convinced), my husband had to develop this fixation on Mary Baxter and Bill Weise's glimpses of an eternal hell, so there's a small voice constantly asking, what if they are right :mshock:

I guess I have asked this question on this forum instead of another christian forum is because even if you're not right about universal salvation, at least you can understand and empathize with me not being able to love and worship a god that would knowingly and willingly create people (that never asked to be born) that he knew would never accept him :mshock: and torture them forever :omg:

I have visited an ex-christian forum (one of the links here led to it from another topic here) and I sense such bitterness as those people have been badly let down by christianity, I feel something inside me die when I see responses like this

 http://christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=42625522&postcount=28

I have read a few of L Ray Smith's articles and I love the way he answers some of the letters (eg - take your pious holier than thou attitude somewhere else, when someone gets on their high horse about ET) :icon_jokercolor: :girlheart: :bgdance:

I am also reading a e book called hope beyond hell

Anyway in closing I'm astounded that the topics on universal salvation (especially if it's the truth all christians should be hoping for are being closed down on other christian forums, it was by sheer chance that I happened to come across this topic on another forum which lead me to investigate it further), yet they can have such mandane topics such as painting your nails, what movies you like etc etc :mshock:

Anyway I'm sure as confused and depressed as I am about the different flavors/variations of christianity, I'm sure of one thing, I will NEVER be happy with the ET doctrine and the cold-heartedness of a sermon preaching HELL IS FAIR

Only GOD KNOWS :sigh:


Offline 97531

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Re: Why are most christians so cold hearted towards non-christians
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2008, 07:41:03 PM »
Hi shadow

May I suggest reading this article from Gary - it kinda puts it all in perspective.

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Offline studier

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Re: Why are most christians so cold hearted towards non-christians
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2008, 08:34:12 PM »
Quote
I'd love more than anything to believe that there is no eternal hell, and that everyone goes to heaven eventually (unfortunately I'm not 100% convinced), my husband had to develop this fixation on Mary Baxter and Bill Weise's glimpses of an eternal hell, so there's a small voice constantly asking, what if they are right

Even if they saw what they saw, they would have no way of truly knowing exactly what they saw. There is no way to tell if what they saw was forever, or lasts for so long as it lasts. They were there by the Spirit, but even John (who wrote Revelation) could not explain or understand what he saw in his vision.

I have a friend who died on the operating table getting a liver transplant, and he saw two demons come up from the ground and start to pull him down. He was scared and got angry at them and commanded them in the Name of Jesus, to cease because He was a child of God through Jesus Christ. Then his vision became clear, they were not two demons dragging him away to Hell, but in fact two angels holding him down and allowing God to heal him. He didn't know it, but his liver was rejected and he died on the operating table, they were just about to take the liver back out after declaring him dead, when he awoke and the liver worked perfectly.

Just because a person sees something, does not always mean what they seen was true, what they seen was real but they could not interpret it in it's proper context because we do not know everything and fear has a way of distorting the truth.

martincisneros

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Re: Why are most christians so cold hearted towards non-christians
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2008, 05:12:06 AM »
I have a friend who died on the operating table getting a liver transplant, and he saw two demons come up from the ground and start to pull him down. He was scared and got angry at them and commanded them in the Name of Jesus, to cease because He was a child of God through Jesus Christ. Then his vision became clear, they were not two demons dragging him away to Hell, but in fact two angels holding him down and allowing God to heal him. He didn't know it, but his liver was rejected and he died on the operating table, they were just about to take the liver back out after declaring him dead, when he awoke and the liver worked perfectly.

Wow!  Interesting testimony.

I too, in my youth, had visions of "eternal Hell," but since they didn't stand indepth scrutiny with the Word of God, I've of course since then rejected those visions GLADLY.

A vision is no guaranty that it's from God.  And a vision is not always a vision.  Deepest fears and beliefs can run the movie projector of the subconscious.  A real vision strengthens faith in the finished work of Christ rather than in the finished work of Adam and Satan.  The two don't blend very well in the Scriptures, inspite of evangelicals trying to mix them and sorta [implicitly] falling from grace thereby.  Just as you can't mix law and grace and have a good standing in grace, you can't really mix faith in the ongoing work of Adam and Satan and believe that Jesus Christ finished ANYTHING.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2008, 05:19:09 AM by martincisneros »

Offline Akira Takahashi

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Re: Why are most christians so cold hearted towards non-christians
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2008, 08:49:21 PM »
Well, it seems that you and I are in the same boat.  I, too, feel appalled by the lack of concern for the unsaved, and I'm particularly fretting over my brother, who has claimed that he'd rather be in Hell, trying to take down God (he believes he's a tyrant, if he exists, and my brother does not believe in the existence of God), than sitting brainwashed in Heaven.  I've tried everything with him, but he will not budge, so I'm hoping for universal salvation.  I hope for it, but I'm not convinced.  Certain passages continue to haunt me.

Anyway, people like us are always welcome on here, so feel free to ask questions.  Like you, I always wondered how God could possibly go ahead with creation if He knew that the majority of his creations would end up with Satan.  Would that not make Satan victorious in one way?  Even if Satan ultimately looses the battle for Heaven, he still would have bragging rights for having successfully turned so many away from their Creator.

My hope is that when the Bible says that all of creation will be in Heaven, then it should mean all men, animals, plants, etc.  I think I believe this to be true.

Shadow

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Re: Why are most christians so cold hearted towards non-christians
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2008, 11:43:58 AM »
Well, it seems that you and I are in the same boat.  I, too, feel appalled by the lack of concern for the unsaved, and I'm particularly fretting over my brother, who has claimed that he'd rather be in Hell, trying to take down God (he believes he's a tyrant, if he exists, and my brother does not believe in the existence of God), than sitting brainwashed in Heaven.  I've tried everything with him, but he will not budge, so I'm hoping for universal salvation.  I hope for it, but I'm not convinced.  Certain passages continue to haunt me.

Anyway, people like us are always welcome on here, so feel free to ask questions.  Like you, I always wondered how God could possibly go ahead with creation if He knew that the majority of his creations would end up with Satan.  Would that not make Satan victorious in one way?  Even if Satan ultimately looses the battle for Heaven, he still
would have bragging rights for having successfully turned so many away from their Creator.

My hope is that when the Bible says that all of creation will be in Heaven, then it should mean all men, animals, plants, etc.  I think I believe this to be true.

A poem I read on another forum that touched me deeply

Quote
A Word to the Elect (by Anne Bronte)

YOU may rejoice to think yourselves secure;
You may be grateful for the gift divine–
That grace unsought, which made your black hearts pure,
And fits your earth-born souls in Heaven to shine.

But, is it sweet to look around, and view
Thousands excluded from that happiness
Which they deserved, at least, as much as you,–
Their faults not greater, nor their virtues less?
And, wherefore should you love your God the more,
Because to you alone his smiles are given;
Because he chose to pass the many o'er,
And only bring the favoured few to Heaven?

And, wherefore should your hearts more grateful prove,
Because for ALL the Saviour did not die?
Is yours the God of justice and of love?
And are your bosoms warm with charity?

Say, does your heart expand to all mankind?
And, would you ever to your neighbor do–
The weak, the strong, the enlightened, and the blind–
As you would have your neighbor do to you?

And, when you, looking on your fellow-men,
Behold them doomed to endless misery,
How can you talk of joy and rapture then?–
May God withhold such cruel joy from me!

That none deserve eternal bliss I know;
Unmerited the grace in mercy given:

But, none shall sink to everlasting woe,
That have not well deserved the wrath of Heaven.
And, oh! there lives within my heart
A hope, long nursed by me;
(And, should its cheering ray depart,
How dark my soul would be!)

That as in Adam all have died,
In Christ shall all men live;
And ever round his throne abide,
Eternal praise to give.

That even the wicked shall at last
Be fitted for the skies;
And, when their dreadful doom is past,
To life and light arise.

I ask not, how remote the day,
Nor what the sinners' woe,
Before their dross is purged away;
Enough for me, to know

That when the cup of wrath is drained,
The metal purified,
They'll cling to what they once disdained,
And live by Him that died.




« Last Edit: August 19, 2008, 02:42:39 PM by Shadow »

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Why are most christians so cold hearted towards non-christians
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2008, 01:49:28 PM »
what has shocked and distressed me more than anything is the total lack of empathy/concern by those that claim to be the "elect" towards those that aren't christians, their attitude seems to be (I'm all right Jack, and that's all that matters)

Are you amazed by that? It's 'normal' human behavior. When you feel little find another group that even more useless (in your mind)
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Kimberlaina

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Re: Why are most christians so cold hearted towards non-christians
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2008, 05:34:53 AM »
People who are nonchalant or cold about people going to hell are disturbing.  But have you ever encountered someone who takes his or her mission to share the (ET) gospel with mankind seriously? 

These people were cold-hearted, too, but you couldn't accuse them of not practicing what they were preaching.  In college I joined a Bible study through an evangelical campus association whose leaders insisted that I go door to door -- in a building where soliciting was prohibited, no less -- and tell people that they were destined for hell.  This was before I believed in UR, and I refused because my conscience just told me it was wrong, among other reasons.  They cared about people getting into heaven, but they also regarded non-Christians sortof like lepers with whom we could speak but whom we were not to touch or befriend.  Of course if they came to Christ, that changed everything.  It was very strange.

Whether they care about people's eternal destiny or not, many Christians seem almost worried that hell is going to rub off on them  :mshock:

SQ

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Re: Why are most christians so cold hearted towards non-christians
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2008, 12:14:17 AM »
I believed in ET probably for 20 years or more, then when my father died who was a real rebel rouser in his day, I almost lost my sanity believeing he was in hell. This went on for around 5 years then one day peace came.
Another thing that got my attention was a few years before I was married to my husband, I had an abusive boyfriend I prayed God would punish him good for the things he had done, I was bitter.
  A thought came to my mind which gave me another perspective was, he is my child too. This was before I had considered that God was love. 
I thought he loved me but hated my boyfriend for being such a jerk..ha
I believe this was the beginning of believing God wouldn't punish anyone for an eternity for a few short years here on earth.
We all may have to spend some time in the lake of fire, but surely not forever.
I now have a peace it is in God's hands, scriptures say he will save all.
I learn more by J Preston Eby and L Ray Smith and others.
What I am trying to figure out now is who is the elect?
Is this believers?
Some that say they are the elect seem to be a bit, well shall I say a bit to proud.
*Note I said some seem to proud, not everyone*.

« Last Edit: December 16, 2008, 12:22:49 AM by SQ »

jadestorm

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Re: Why are most christians so cold hearted towards non-christians
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2009, 10:55:13 AM »
I realize this is an older post, but I just wanted to add my two cents for what it's worth.

A person can't give away what they don't have. Christians who are cold hearted simply haven't had a relational encounter with Father. They've had encounters with doctrine and religion. You can't give grace and Mercy to others when you haven't figured out that it's been given to you in the first place.

I was raised in a very scary, religious doctrine and it took years of God working on my heart to meet Him for Who He Is, and then for that to translate into my behavior and love towards others. It's His Kindness that leads us to repentance. ;)

So as frustrating as it is to have a "rub" with hard hearted Christians, remember that God has a desperate heart to see them as free as anyone else.
I love the parable of the Prodigal Son. I'm not entirely convinced the son who had to find his way back home was really the one with the deepest "issues".
often it is the son (the hard-hearted Christian), who stayed at home but never understood the Father he lived with, kept score, and couldn't find it within himself to rejoice. I have been both "sons" (daughter - hee hee) at different times in my life.
I have to honestly say that being the hard hearted one is the tougher road. How does God correct the heart that thinks they have the answers better than the Father? It's a prideful place that blinds and enslaves. So in answer to your question, 'Why are most christians so cold hearted towards non-christians?' Very simply, I really believe they think God is cold-hearted. They only give away from the abundance of their hearts, and their hearts are cold. So may our hearts be tender towrds the Church and the un-churched alike that we may warm their hearts with the Message from Home that Father Loves us.  :HeartThrob:

preistsplace

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Re: Why are most christians so cold hearted towards non-christians
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2009, 08:58:19 PM »
I honestly don't know where to turn, I have been viewing a few threads on this forum and followed links to other forums where the topic of Universal Salvation has been discussed, what has shocked and distressed me more than anything is the total lack of empathy/concern by those that claim to be the "elect" towards those that aren't christians, their attitude seems to be (I'm all right Jack, and that's all that matters)

What kind of Spirit is that? Love? Selfishness? Self Righteousness?
Gal 5:22  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23  Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Mat 23:13  But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Mat 23:14  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
Mat 23:15  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Mat 5:20  For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 7:15  Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16  Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17  Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18  A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19  Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20  Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
It seems that the scriptures have something to sayabout that type of attitude

preistsplace

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Re: Why are most christians so cold hearted towards non-christians
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2009, 09:08:51 PM »
Anyway I'm sure as confused and depressed as I am about the different flavors/variations of christianity, I'm sure of one thing, I will NEVER be happy with the ET doctrine and the cold-heartedness of a sermon preaching HELL IS FAIR

The different flavors and variations come from mans interpereting scripture to be what he thinks it is . Here in this world it is tragic that almost all of mainstream Christianity will openly confess that the actions of Adolf Hitler, and Joseph Stalin were atrocious and despicable, but turn around and tell you that God will do thing infinitely more horrible and depraved.Here is a link to one of L.Rays articles that I just read.
http://bible-truths.com/hagee1htm

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Why are most christians so cold hearted towards non-christians
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2009, 10:31:59 PM »
Dear priestsplace,
You will never be happy in any flavor of christianity.
As Jadestorm so aptly put; God is not a religion, He is a relationship.
A Father/Son relationship.
But He desires mature Sons — Heirs.
Not children requiring milk.
We grow into Christ.
In the process he consumes all that is not of Him.
He is the all-consuming fire.
And what do we grow into?
Love, pure love, For God is love. And we shall be pure love.
That is the greatest commandment.
To love one another as He has loved us.
And there is no condemnation in Christ.
What of those who are not in Christ?
For God will be in All in All.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2009, 12:46:27 AM by Beloved Servant »

preistsplace

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Re: Why are most christians so cold hearted towards non-christians
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2009, 01:29:08 PM »
Dear priestsplace,
You will never be happy in any flavor of christianity.
As Jadestorm so aptly put; God is not a religion, He is a relationship.
A Father/Son relationship.
But He desires mature Sons — Heirs.
Not children requiring milk.
We grow into Christ.
In the process he consumes all that is not of Him.
He is the all-consuming fire.
And what do we grow into?
Love, pure love, For God is love. And we shall be pure love.
That is the greatest commandment.
To love one another as He has loved us.
And there is no condemnation in Christ.
What of those who are not in Christ?
For God will be in All in All.
Yes exactly. Oh and I was quoting from a post by Shadow.

Tim B

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Re: Why are most christians so cold hearted towards non-christians
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2009, 12:25:48 AM »
I think it's because a lot of Christians don't realize the implications of the very Hell they believe in. In some ways or another, those who do not evangelize that believe in Hell are being the most selfish people on the planet. I among them (when I believed in Hell). Yet, it's interesting, because even when I believed in Hell I felt like God did not want me to go around on the streets and such and just randomly evangelize, but I felt I was led to evangelize when the right opportunity came up. Now I don't even believe in Hell, but now, I do feel more open with sharing the good news with others. There's no better conversation stopper than telling people that if they don't believe in what you say they'll spend eternity in everlasting, unimaginable pain and torment, and now I don't preach that.  :bigGrin: (To be honest, I don't think I ever told a single person they'd ever go to Hell, I just tried to tell them about the good news, on occasion.)

Also, there's of course man's cruelty and need to be right and insult others. It's obnoxious. I see it all the time on forums with Christians. :( (Although there's usually more really nice people!) I wish people could get over the idea of Hell. It's both philosophically and emotionally nonsensical and disgusting. The atheists at least have that part right in life, about Hell being completely outrageous, no wonder they abandon the faith and/or hate God.