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Offline 97531

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Unforgiveable Sin
« on: February 27, 2008, 07:33:54 AM »
Query from Chris

Hi, please I really need your help. I think I have committed the unforgivable sin. I was on bed reading the word of God and came by the scripture which talks about blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Instantly I thought a disgusting thought in my head. Curse words came into my head and I don't know how but I cursed the Holy Spirit. Sometime it comes back into my head and I hate it.

I don't know why this happened, but after reading on the internet I saw that it had happened to other people. I don't hate the Holy Spirit, I love God and I was even praying that the Holy Spirit would come into me and help me to serve God better. I was really hungry for God and growing spiritually each day. Now I am absolutely terrified that I am going to Hell, it is so frightening.
 
It has ruined me and I have stopped going to church. No matter how much I read about it on sites like these and people tell me that I haven't committed this sin I still think I am lost forever. It seems nothing can comfort me because I am just so unsure. How can I know, or anyone else know for sure? Doesn't it say that if you committ this sin that you while not be forgiven in this age, or the age to come and that all blasphemy shall be forgiven, but blasphemy against the holy spirit will not? I want forgiveness so badly, but it feels so far away from me, I feel like I am beyond forgiveness.
Please please help me, thanks, Chris
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Offline Kratos

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Re: Unforgiveable Sin
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2008, 09:16:25 AM »
Chris,

I can tell you of a surety that you have not committed any unpardonable sin. No one can seek forgiveness or be drawn to want God except by the Holy Spirit. If you had done what you fear, you would not care a bit or want to be forgiven. The very fact that you want forgiveness and to be right with God proves that you still have the Holy Spirit working in you and with you. The truth is that God has already forgiven you when you asked the first time, but the enemy is lying to you trying to convince you otherwise. Please believe me as I have nothing to gain by not telling you the truth.

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« Last Edit: April 21, 2008, 06:40:07 PM by SeekerSA »
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Offline 97531

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Re: Unforgiveable Sin
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2008, 09:59:39 AM »
Hi Chris

Here are a few other thoughts on the matter.

The famous Unpardonable sin

I concur with Kratos

Blessings
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Offline AbbasChild

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It is much more possible for the sun to give out darkness than for God to do or be, or give out anything but Blessing and Goodness.- William Law

Man can certainly flee from God... but he cannot escape him. He can certainly hate God and be hateful to God, but he cannot change into its opposite the eternal love of God which triumphs even in his hate. --Karl Barth

Offline Tony N

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Re: Unforgiveable Sin
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2008, 01:58:58 AM »
Chris, to blaspheme the holy spirit is to attribute the miracles Christ wraught to the work of Satan rather than God.

Also, even if you did commit the blasphemy of the h.s. it does not bear eternal consequences. The one who did so in Christ's day does not receive a pardon **in this eon nor in that [eon] which is impending**. So you would not receive a pardon during this eon in which we live nor during the 1000 year millennial reign of Christ. But afterward is the new earth eon and after that God will be All in all.

So chil.

Tony
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

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Re: Unforgiveable Sin
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2008, 10:05:16 AM »
Hi im Erica...and i just wanted to respond to your post Chris...as long as you have asked God to forgive you of your sin...you are definately forgiven! Please do not be tormented by how you feel. Trust me i have sinned alot...and I too felt like i was not going to make it to heaven, but then God told me that im forgiven! So if you asked God to forgive you then your forgiven! If you need prayer feel free to let me know...God bless you!

In Christ...Erica :happygrin:

martincisneros

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Re: Unforgiveable Sin
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2008, 11:58:17 AM »
As far as the unpardonable sin, I'm sorta standing here as Exhibit-A regarding this sin.  Thoughts were the least of what I did several years ago.  I know I crossed that line.  Christians with no knowledge of what I'd done had some interesting comments for me during that season, that could have only come from the Holy Spirit.  I'm not talking about a single incident or even a few incidents.  It would be nice to say that I was demonized at the time so that it could be said that perhaps it wasn't me spewing all of that, but....

Jesus said some things about the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, and then He took a beating on His Face and released Water from His side on the Cross in order to separate you from the present time demension.  All of these sins have been eternally punished in the Body of Jesus Christ.  And if you're moved by the love and atoning work of the Son of God, then take that opportunity to totally cast the whole of your past, of your present, and of your future at His feet. 

There are as many demensions of time as there are individuals in the Creation, and Jesus Christ can transport you from that road to destruction and can convey you not only into His loving embrace, heaven, the new earth, etc., but He can part the waters of time that would separate you from Him and He can cast away from you all of that condemnation and raise you up even from this death that you've died in your soul for having committed this sin.  I know about this particular death because I died it a few years ago.

Look at the Light and at the Blood in the Light.  Don't look at the Darkness.  Tune out the laughs and moans that you might hear in your quieter moments.  Tune out the nervousness and the bottomless feeling in the pit of your stomach.  Reach for that nail pierced Hand as you look into those tear-filled eyes that have never given up on you!  He warned you of the danger of this sin and of the magnitude of the damage that you'd create with it.  But He's not pushing you away.  That's a demon that would try to exclude you from His grace, even if it's quoting Scriptures to you as it did to Jesus when it tempted Him.

You can climb up that well that you've fallen into.  Don't let this thing swallow you!  God's Hand is on the other side of the mouth of this beast whose belly you feel like you're trapped within.  The fear, the shame, the condemnation that you're feeling for having done this isn't coming from your heavenly Father.  It's a cloud of deception that's surrounded you whose origins are religious, demonic, and psychic.  Grab a Bible and start reading St. Paul's epistles. 

If it's still too heavy, then go to one of the healing ministries like Kenneth E. Hagin's or Oral Roberts ministry* and get an audio copy of the healing Scriptures so you can listen to those over and over and over again.  Go to www.haroldlovelace.com and order a copy of his book on the Universal Restoration.  It's called "Read And Search God's Plan...of His mercy upon all..."  Read through that book after you've listened to one of those healing Scriptures tapes or CDs a few times and when you get to the Scripture section of Harold's book, just spend hours reading those Scriptures of God's mercy upon all over and over and over again. 

In your Bible, read Ephesians, Colossians, and Romans chapter 8 over and over and over again and just bathe your mind in God's Word.  You don't have to "produce" something or have anything memorized.  Just bathe in it and hide in God's Word from all of the religion, politics, and entertainment industry that surrounds you.  This is a season where you're working on something.  Hide in God's Word until there's nothing screaming at you any more except for God's passionate, passionate and intoxicating love for you and for all of Creation!





*As a bit of clarification, I'm always going to point you in the direction of the Scriptures, more than necessarily at either the particular doctrines of others or whatever, although I may mention specific ministries for the sake of letting you know where to find this or that, that I personally believe would be most helpful.  My advocation of a particular product isn't necessarily an advocation of everything that particular teachers and ministries would have to offer in product catalogues or in their meetings.  The Scriptures on audio cassette or audio CD are very helpful, particularly when they're as many Scriptures as possible on a particular theme and particularly when the themes are various aspects of the Goodness of our Lord.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2008, 12:51:45 PM by martincisneros »

Offline AbbasChild

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Re: Unforgiveable Sin
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2008, 11:44:41 PM »
Hi Martin,
thank you for sharing. About ten years ago I was going through a similar experiemce that almost cost me my life. It truly was the dark night of the soul.

But our Abba Father's Love prevailed in the end and now I know that nothing can seperate me from His Love in Christ Jesus. Shortly after this the flow of the Holy Spirit was released in my life accompanyied by the gift of tongues.

Hang in there Chris, Abba is going to reveal His Unconditional Love, Radical Grace and Unlimited Mercy to you.
It is much more possible for the sun to give out darkness than for God to do or be, or give out anything but Blessing and Goodness.- William Law

Man can certainly flee from God... but he cannot escape him. He can certainly hate God and be hateful to God, but he cannot change into its opposite the eternal love of God which triumphs even in his hate. --Karl Barth

martincisneros

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Re: Unforgiveable Sin
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2008, 02:00:25 AM »
I'd noticed this on the guest board a while back and I wasn't sure about whether or not to comment on it, because this sin has such a stigma associated with it.  It's sorta like how some of the denominations were treating the divorced for years and years.  Either nobody with half a brain really commits this sin, or the only real danger is if a cessationist opens their mouths about a miracle ministry in the Body of Christ.  Those are pretty much how the theories go.  And then the magnitude of consequences that Jesus attached to this sin probably leads a lot of people in the Body of Christ to think "nobody that I personally know has ever stepped across those lines!"  And then all of the excuses start coming up if there's a nervousness that this sin has been committed.  The ol' "the devil made me do it" that used to be a favorite excuse on a bunch of other stuff.

If time's a factor in keeping anyone away from the Lord because of a sin of this nature, the Lord's more than capable of creating a brand new time line upon which to place the person who has committed this sin.  Some might say that there's no promise of that.  And in my early years in UR, I'd of given precisely the exact same answer as Tony Nungesser gave above.  And then after a while, I got to thinking.... But, wait a minute, [letter of the law vs. life-giving Spirit again] I've done this kinda crap both in my preteens and in my early 20s around 1996 and 1997.  And yet, few in the history of mankind have ever been recipients of as much of the grace of God as I've received, IF anybody else has ever received this much grace 'cause absolutely all grace without any limitation or qualification is abounding towards me perpetually without any end in sight. 

The beautiful thing about our Lord though, is that as much grace as I've been a recipient of, it's available to anyone else that's ever committed this sin.  All of God's grace is even available for those who have a bit of the nervousness about having committed this sin.  Whether or not they got into a God cursing, God cussing fit that included some underwhelming observations and declarations about the Holy Spirit and having quite a mouthful about various well-known ministries that probably have more of the supernatural touch from the Lord than the Lord even uses to sustain the multiverse, or if they're under the impression that they've done other things that were just as bad.  God's grace is greater!

Afterlife punishments in the Old Testament tended to work out in the lives of one's descendants instead of being something that one would personally face post mortem.  I'm starting to believe that Jesus was speaking to a Jewish culture about the sins against the Holy Spirit being passed down to the third and fourth generation when He said that there wasn't forgiveness for this sin in this age or in the age to come.  However, that mostly related to that generation to which He was ministering that faced a very very rough end to the century with the destruction of Jerusalem.  It was a warning that if they didn't repent, then it wouldn't go well with their kids and grand kids, that had a very sad fulfillment because they didn't heed His warning.  He wasn't threatening them with a level of harm that His Cross couldn't reclaim them from.  Otherwise a sin would have successfully challenged His power, wisdom, provision, lovingkindness, and tender mercies!

Having one's name rubbed out in the Old Testament was about having one's name rubbed out from under heaven as God sometimes spoke to the Israelites about with regards to how severe they were to come down on their enemies.  This was the practice of other cultures as well, that in some instances, they'd completely wipe out the memory of some from under the sun.  This could be the case with individuals, families, and cities.  But this hardly related to one's post mortem condition.

Solomon said that the spirit of the man would return to God Who gave it.  Period.  There's no other afterlife provisions that have been made either in the Old or New Testaments.  Those who died through Adam will most surely be made alive through Jesus Christ, each in their own order of life and death generation after generation until the resurrection.  And the resurrection will be about participating on the New Earth.

As soon as UR goes mainstream, there have got to be dozens of books that are published with regards to this particular sin 'cause a lot of people have committed it.  And if they're unrepentant, then they are "dead men walking," but there is recovery for all from every imaginable and unimaginable sin through Jesus Christ.  Jesus Christ in His death overshadowed the entire spectrum of what scientists would call "superstring theory" and every time demension in existence finds it's summation and consummation in Him.  And from the perspective of His foreshadowing and overshadowing of all of time with His glory, His death, and His resurrection He HAS TAKEN AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD.

Offline AbbasChild

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Re: Unforgiveable Sin
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2008, 07:45:42 PM »
I'd noticed this on the guest board a while back and I wasn't sure about whether or not to comment on it, because this sin has such a stigma associated with it.  It's sorta like how some of the denominations were treating the divorced for years and years.  Either nobody with half a brain really commits this sin, or the only real danger is if a cessationist opens their mouths about a miracle ministry in the Body of Christ.  Those are pretty much how the theories go.  And then the magnitude of consequences that Jesus attached to this sin probably leads a lot of people in the Body of Christ to think "nobody that I personally know has ever stepped across those lines!"  And then all of the excuses start coming up if there's a nervousness that this sin has been committed.  The ol' "the devil made me do it" that used to be a favorite excuse on a bunch of other stuff.

If time's a factor in keeping anyone away from the Lord because of a sin of this nature, the Lord's more than capable of creating a brand new time line upon which to place the person who has committed this sin.  Some might say that there's no promise of that.  And in my early years in UR, I'd of given precisely the exact same answer as Tony Nungesser gave above.  And then after a while, I got to thinking.... But, wait a minute, [letter of the law vs. life-giving Spirit again] I've done this kinda crap both in my preteens and in my early 20s around 1996 and 1997.  And yet, few in the history of mankind have ever been recipients of as much of the grace of God as I've received, IF anybody else has ever received this much grace 'cause absolutely all grace without any limitation or qualification is abounding towards me perpetually without any end in sight. 

The beautiful thing about our Lord though, is that as much grace as I've been a recipient of, it's available to anyone else that's ever committed this sin.  All of God's grace is even available for those who have a bit of the nervousness about having committed this sin.  Whether or not they got into a God cursing, God cussing fit that included some underwhelming observations and declarations about the Holy Spirit and having quite a mouthful about various well-known ministries that probably have more of the supernatural touch from the Lord than the Lord even uses to sustain the multiverse, or if they're under the impression that they've done other things that were just as bad.  God's grace is greater!

Afterlife punishments in the Old Testament tended to work out in the lives of one's descendants instead of being something that one would personally face post mortem.  I'm starting to believe that Jesus was speaking to a Jewish culture about the sins against the Holy Spirit being passed down to the third and fourth generation when He said that there wasn't forgiveness for this sin in this age or in the age to come.  However, that mostly related to that generation to which He was ministering that faced a very very rough end to the century with the destruction of Jerusalem.  It was a warning that if they didn't repent, then it wouldn't go well with their kids and grand kids, that had a very sad fulfillment because they didn't heed His warning.  He wasn't threatening them with a level of harm that His Cross couldn't reclaim them from.  Otherwise a sin would have successfully challenged His power, wisdom, provision, lovingkindness, and tender mercies!

Having one's name rubbed out in the Old Testament was about having one's name rubbed out from under heaven as God sometimes spoke to the Israelites about with regards to how severe they were to come down on their enemies.  This was the practice of other cultures as well, that in some instances, they'd completely wipe out the memory of some from under the sun.  This could be the case with individuals, families, and cities.  But this hardly related to one's post mortem condition.

Solomon said that the spirit of the man would return to God Who gave it.  Period.  There's no other afterlife provisions that have been made either in the Old or New Testaments.  Those who died through Adam will most surely be made alive through Jesus Christ, each in their own order of life and death generation after generation until the resurrection.  And the resurrection will be about participating on the New Earth.

As soon as UR goes mainstream, there have got to be dozens of books that are published with regards to this particular sin 'cause a lot of people have committed it.  And if they're unrepentant, then they are "dead men walking," but there is recovery for all from every imaginable and unimaginable sin through Jesus Christ.  Jesus Christ in His death overshadowed the entire spectrum of what scientists would call "superstring theory" and every time demension in existence finds it's summation and consummation in Him.  And from the perspective of His foreshadowing and overshadowing of all of time with His glory, His death, and His resurrection He HAS TAKEN AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD.

 :thumbsup:

Good stuff!

My thinking goes in this direction as well.

Just found this excerpt by Thomas Allin again and found it rather interesting:

"HE THAT SHALL BLASPHEME AGAINST THE HOLY GHOST HAS NEVER FORGIVENESS, BUT IS IN DANGER OF ETERNAL DAMNATION." S. Mark iii. 29, S. Matt. xii. 32.

 

On a question involving the interpretation of a phrase, drawn from a language still living in their day, it is most important to note the attitude of most Fathers towards this sin. "The notion," says BINGHAM, "that most of the antients had of the sin against the Holy Ghost, was not that it was absolutely unpardonable, but that men were to be punished for it both in this world and in the next, unless they truly repented of it." - vol. ii. 921 So ATHANASIUS says of this sin, "If they repent they may obtain pardon, for there is no sin unpardonable with God to them who truly repent." - De comm. essent. So S. CHRYSOSTOM, "We know that this sin was forgiven to some that repented of it." * * What is then the than meaning of it? That it is a sin less capable of forgiveness than all others, - Hom. xlii. in S. Matt. xii. So VICTOR of Antioch - Comm. in S. Marc. iii., S. AMBROSE - De penit. ii .4, &c. And so DIONYSIUS (Syrus), as late as the tenth century, says: "Many, who did blaspheme. against the Holy Ghost, afterwards repented, and obtained pardon," - translated from a Syriac MSS. (Dubl. 1762.) Two points are very noteworthy; (I.) that these Fathers did not believe any sin to be in itself unpardonable, (II.) that they did not believe the phrases eis ton aiona or aionios, to mean in strictness "never," or "everlasting," as our version renders them. And so nobody will press the similar phrase as to the iniquity of Eli's house not being purged for ever - 1 Sam. iii. 14, to mean that it was literally unpardonable.

 

I may add that if we retain the authorized text in S. .Mark, the word rendered "damnation" is merely "judgment." But the true reading is probably hamartematos=sin, i.e., is guilty of a. sin, whose results last into a future age or ages. The phrase translated "never," is so far from meaning this literally, that it is elsewhere in Scripture followed by "and beyond," i.e., and after, e.g., Ex. xv. 18, Dan. xii. 3, &c. In S. Matt, the parallel passage is differently worded. "It shall not be forgiven in this world (i.e., age) nor in that which is to come." These words imply that there is forgiveness for sin after this life in very many cases - (an awkward fact for the traditional creed,) and therefore repentance after death is quite possible. Next, there is no assertion whatever that, after this age, and that to come, there may not be forgiveness even for the sin v. the Holy Ghost. A few words may be added. This terrible sin is the sin of the Scribes and Pharisees, i.e., of the hard, narrow religionist, and not of the ungodly. The sin itself is very clearly defined, "because they said, He has an unclean spirit," v. 30. Its essence lies in confounding the works of the Good and Evil Spirits, as, e.g., assigning to God any kind of evil act, p. 37,8. Must it not be a near approximation to this awful sin to assign to God deeds which, like endless torture, our conscience tells us are evil and cruel?
It is much more possible for the sun to give out darkness than for God to do or be, or give out anything but Blessing and Goodness.- William Law

Man can certainly flee from God... but he cannot escape him. He can certainly hate God and be hateful to God, but he cannot change into its opposite the eternal love of God which triumphs even in his hate. --Karl Barth

martincisneros

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Re: Unforgiveable Sin
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2008, 12:00:44 AM »
I'd posted a link to this thread on another thread or two and just became aware of difficulties people were having of being able to view this thread if they were logged in and didn't have the certain number of posts to the boards under their belt to be able to post replies on the Guest Book.  I'd assumed that though they might not have been able to have replied to this thread that they'd still be able to see this thread.  That was my error. 

I'm hoping that by moving this thread here that this resolves the difficulty with viewing this thread that I've posted a link to on a couple of threads.  Unregistered guests can view both this board and the Guest Book board.  They can start threads on the Guest Book board, but they can't reply to threads on the Guest Book board, so I'm doing no one any injury by moving this.  And if it makes it more viewable and accessible by all, I'm deeply sorry that I wasn't aware of the need to move this thread sooner.  Hopefully this resolves the issue with being able to see this thread and if anyone wishes to post to it, by all means do so!

Offline anti_nietzsche

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Re: Unforgiveable Sin
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2008, 07:12:01 AM »
I've had that problem too once. I think it's rather common. It's like this, someone tells you don't think of a blue bird or you will be damned. Then the mind feels drawn to that thought and most people would end up thinking of a blue bird. It's very normal and very human. I think such blasphemy has the prerequisite that you bother with the devil, that you really and actually betray God, like for financial gain, like what this couple did that lied to the spirit about money. It's really really difficult to get there.

Maybe you feel like I did when that happened to me, and now often have wicked thoughts that you don't want to have but which come anyway. Simply pray much and ask God to give you a clean heart. You must trust in God knowing your heart and that you did not want this. God is greater than our hearts and knows what's going on in there.

God not only will forgive but already has forgiven you. Spend some time at the cross ... imagine and empty cross, and an empty tomb. God just loves you, man. And will always do.

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Re: Unforgiveable Sin
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2008, 08:16:46 AM »
That article by George MacDonald that AbbasChild posted was fantastic.  Thank you so much for posting that.

I love this:
"I think, when Judas fled from his hanged and fallen body, he fled to the tender help of Jesus, and found itI say not how."

and this:

"My friends, I offer this as only a contribution towards the understanding of our Lord's words. But if we ask him, he will lead us into all truth. And let us not be afraid to think, for he will not take it ill."

I struggled with the unforgivable sin in almost exactly the same way as Chris.  I was mad at my parents about something, so I swore/cursed/cussed at God and later worried that I'd said it against the Holy Spirit.  Then I became "really saved" a couple years later (long story...) and had to deal with whether or not I actually was "really saved" and "maybe I did commit the unpardonable sin" in an endless cycle, until I found (was shown) UR.

I'm so glad to be released of that burden.

martincisneros

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Re: Unforgiveable Sin
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2008, 09:31:15 AM »
As important as all of the promises of the Universal Restoration are throughout the Old and New Testaments; and as important as all of the various examples and legal precidents are of the limited duration of God's judgments: I can almost go so far as to say that if this one sin be disproven from having eternal consequences then even without going through all of the intricate theology and locating all of the promises -- Eternal Separation stands or falls pretty much on this one issue of an "unpardonable sin."  I don't wish to oversimplify something that's [genuinely] based upon over 600 verses of Scripture, as demonstrated by Dr. Harold Lovelace, and various other authors too numerous to be cited, but just think about it for a minute.  If one were ultimately excluded from entrance into 1Corinthians 15:28, then something by intent, design, or acquiescence was "unpardonable."

Offline anti_nietzsche

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Re: Unforgiveable Sin
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2008, 10:38:19 AM »
Oh yeah, and I had a kind of vision about this once. I thought about what this sin means, then I was reminded to our german constitution and heard the word, spoken very softly and solemnly, "preamble". Now the preamble to a constitution, in old times at least, always meant something solemn. People promised to each other that they would honor their covenant. It was about keeping the solemn spirit.

Likewise, we christians are supposed to honor God, particularly Him as the Holy Spirit who is so tenderly loving us and who, I think, has promised to Himself that He would lead us into all truth and be our parakletos. It's like when you marry, there is something to the solemnity. It's not just a feeling, it means something.

But, when a bad thought comes up and you struggle with God and without thinking you utter some bad word, but then repent of it, of course it can be forgiven. The constitution of the New Covenant, so to speak, is ratified with Jesus' own blood and rests on eternal love and togetherness with God. And if you repent, if you regret that crap, of course God will forgive. That is in the preamble too :).

The difficult thing, at least for me, was to get back into this mood of solemnity and love. So that I could have real tender reverence for God. I was always fearing I could have evil thoughts again. For a time in my life this meant that I withdrew from God, simply because I feared things would get bad again and some thoughts slipped by. But at some point, I felt forgiven. I heard a voice, believing it to be the Holy Spirit, that said "I talked with the Father and He said that at some point this fear would just wane". And from this point I was virtually free of the fear of blaspheming the Holy Spirit. And even when bad thoughts slip by I know that I am forgiven.

And then, we can't take complete responsibility for our thoughts. Simply sit down and say to yourself now I only want to have really good thoughts. Doesn't work like that except sometimes only. We are humans and our hearts are not always set right. We make mistakes.

Doesn't mean you shouldn't take this sin lightly. By all means try to keep God sacred to you, all of the Godhead, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. But don't forget that it's all about mercy and love lest you get too strict with yourself, that you don't become phariseic.

Much love,

Daniel
 

autoimmune

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Re: Unforgiveable Sin
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2008, 06:35:00 AM »
Hi, Martin.  There is another thread on this elsewhere.  here is what I posted there as my take on the unpardonable sin:

After Jesus rose, He appeared to his apostles, blew on them, and said that whatever they loosed (forgave) on earth was loosed (forgiven) in heaven. Whatever they bound on earth was bound in heaven.

We are told in several places that in the end we in Christ will judge the world.

Christ was telling His apostles they would be judges and was giving them the authority they would need to do that.

People think the "unforgivable sin" is one that cannot be forgiven, ever, in any way.

I believe it simply means that a sin against the Holy Spirit is the only one Christ's apostles (and other later members of the Body) do not have the authority or power to loose or bind through Christ's presence in us. In essence, it is "unforgivable" in that respect.

We will be able to loose or bind any sin by MAN against Man. But only the Holy Spirit, who was the one grieved, has the power to forgive or bind a sin by man against Him, God's Spirit.

I agree with Kratos, anti_neitzche and others.  It's a human failing to think what we believe we shouldn't when told not to. And since Chris took it to the Spirit, he cannot have done what he fears he has.

Even if he did, just by going to the Holy Spirit he can receive the forgivenes needed since it was the Holy Spirit he grieved by that errant and fleeting thought.

ME 

martincisneros

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Re: Unforgiveable Sin
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2008, 07:06:50 AM »
Hi Mary Ellen,

The power on earth to forgive sins that's been given to believers is an awesome responsibility that most "Protestants," or Nondenominational folks have really failed a lot of times to pray about until they received understanding from the Lord on ministering that way.  It's a part of the ministry of reconciliation that many believers are leery of because of their leeriness of the Roman Catholic Church.  But as most Nondenominational or Denominational folks don't toss out the bread and the cup when they feel like they can't buy into transsubstantiation, but simply have their own beliefs and practices regarding that, this area over here in the closing part of the Gospel of John is something that people need to really pray through. 

I've been praying about that passage for over 15 years for an understanding of it 'cause it's not the kind of thing that I hear anything taught about in Charismatic Churches.  They're so afraid of thinking that they'd be "mediating," which is an additional cuss word to Christians if it's applied to anyone but Jesus, that they totally shy away from a very valuable spiritual truth that could free people of decades of condemnation if they knew anything about it.  I don't pretend to know anything about it whatsoever.  I'm just open to the Holy Spirit using me in that way.  If it needs to accompany a healing, as when Jesus did it on one occasion, then I'm ready to go where ever the Lord tells me, even if it's to minister to one person. 

Some of the ministers that have taken so much heat from a certain U.S. Senator because they're thoroughly equipped for every good word and work have done that very thing, in spending however much it takes in jet fuel to go thousands of miles to minister to one person.  It's not with any kind of regularity...yet...  (My upcoming generation will have the resources from God to do that with real regularity!!)  But most often before the Lord will trust anyone with being ruler over many things, there will often ultimately come that one time that someone was supposed to minister to one person. 

The "one talent" isn't always a talent or some money, but sometimes is that one person that God instructs someone to go to when they've been seeking Him about releasing them into bigger things in this life.  Sometimes it'll be that one person when you're so tired or depleted in some other way; emotionally, financially, or whatever.  It'll be that one person that needs tenderness and gentleness when all you want to do is bark about a bad tooth or the price of gasoline.  God's ultimate act of trust with anyone is with another person.  Will you loose their chains?  Or send them away sorrowful?  We were never supposed to preach eternal punishment.  We were supposed to remit sins!  Oh, that sends a groan through my whole being over all of the people that have died over the centuries without knowing that they were loved INFINITELY.....

If they'd known, the superheroes that many of them would have been transformed into, instead of dying as bums with destroyed hearts.

autoimmune

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Re: Unforgiveable Sin
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2008, 09:50:22 AM »
Hi, Martin.  I was going to shut down the computer for the evening, but I wanted to reply to your wonderful post.  I read a lot of what you write and then nod my head in agreement.  I should let you know more often how valuable your threads have been to me.

I mentioned before that I wasn't sure if I could ever return to the RC church as much as a part of me wants to.  Passages like the one mentioned above are part of it.  Was it only His apostles that Christ blew on, and is it only those they "lay hands on" that this gift of forgiving sins be passed down to?  Or is this a gift for every believer on whom the Holy Spirit (Breath of God) descends and enters as the deposit for our inheritence?

As Christians we all can forgive each other, but are we forgiving each other for the harm done, or actually forgiving the sin.

My hunch is that if the Body of Christ is going to judge others at the end of time, we have been given the gift of actually remitting sins.  And as you so beautifully said, what a gift and why have we been preaching ET instead of your sins are forgiven?

There have been times in my life, as I am sure there have been for most here, when someone told me years after the fact what the small act of love and forgiveness I offered them meant to them, how it changed everything at a difficult time in their life.  Truly humbling to think that, as you said, most times I would have preferred to growl at them or reply in kind.

It's those times that the grace of Christ floors me!  It also makes me wonder how many times I failed someone because I did growl at them when they needed that sense of forgiveness and reconciliation.

Makes me understand what it means to tremble while working out my salvation :)

ME

Offline Reverend G

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Re: Unforgiveable Sin
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2008, 10:24:25 AM »
The whole concept of "unforgivable" just hits me wrong.  If any sin is wrong enough to make us unworthy, does God really need a grading system?  I seriously doubt there is anybody on this earth today who has never sinned.  Conversely, I seriously doubt there is a human who has ever walked the earth that is not forgiven.

Someone was commenting on another forum about how if you die without forgiveness, you go to hell for eternity.  What a bummer!!  So I was contrite and repentant two minutes prior to death, and just before the throes of death the pain was so intense I scream out "God Da%$ it" and it dooms me!!

It made me wonder, does God have to have an appeals court between heaven and hell?  Maybe that's purgatory?  You know, people appealling their sentence to hell because they didn't live long enough to find forgiveness?  "I only lived to 63 years old, you gave my aunt Edna 87 years, I just needed more time! It isn't fair!!" Yeah right!!

The concept of any sin being unforgivable, and of anybody being unforgiven, sure seems to cheapen the whole miracle of Christ's sacrifice for humanity.  Granted, I think His sacrifice was symbolic, He would have forgiven us without  such a painful ordeal, but we humans needed something to get that forgiveness message across to us.  Seems alot of still haven't gotten it.

Offline Nancy

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Re: Unforgiveable Sin
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2008, 12:16:46 PM »
Hi there SeekerSA,
How i can sympathise with you! I have been there and wrote a t-shirt whilst there!
I lived a perfectly living hell with this thing.

I subsequently was diagnosed with OCD. I'm not suggesting that you have this, but i think everyone has a touch of it.

I still get terrible thoughts but am learning to ignore them. As someone has said, God knows that you don't want them.

I'm not sure that this sin can be committed today, as we are not seeing Christ heal in the flesh and also somewhere i read saying that why isn't this sin mentioned by St Paul?
St. Paul tells us to test the spirits. How can we do that if we are so terrified of possibly committing this sin?

And i believe that you have to physically slander the Holy Spirits' work, for personal gain, i.e. because you are jealous and angry that your ministry/income is being taken over by the person healing, as in the Pharisee's reasons.
If you say something and you are not sure, how can that be a sin but to know that God is healing but you want to discredit the person healing, you aren't slandering them but God Himself!

Hope this helps a little!
Remember the mind is a very clever thing, as it seems to know exactly what disturbs and hurts you!

Godbless
Nancy


adam

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Re: Unforgiveable Sin
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2008, 07:27:20 PM »
Hello Nancy.  I don't think it was Seeker who had the random thoughts , he was posting on behalf of another writer.

Yes you are right a lot of people get these thoughts though.   We can't control what we think all the time,  I would say as long as its involuntry thoughts it not even a willed action let alone a sin.

In Luke 12:9 for example it says

But he who disowns me before men will be disowned before the angels of God. 10And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

Random thoughts in the privacy of your own head are not the same as disowning  before men .  Maybe the writer doesn't feel forgiven as he hasn't even committed a minor sin!

Will be praying his mind is set to rest.

God bless.

Armistead

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Re: Unforgiveable Sin
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2008, 08:58:50 AM »
It sounds like a common problem for some, if not all of us at times.
Like a song you can't get out of your head.

Your brain is triggering thoughts constantly, because you are trying so hard not to have them. In the not trying, they come even more. Like you
could be praying and at the same time the thought comes. You fight it, pray more..but sub-conciously, you are trying so hard to fight it, it will happen. This condition happens constantly with those that suffer from sexual issues..Like a woman can't have the big O, because she trying mentally to force it, instead of letting it happen. The alcoholic deals with this.

First, like others have said, you havn't commited this sin. Even those that
believe in eternal hell don't believe that the sin can be commited today.

Know that all humans can have the most terrible thoughts that just come
out of no where...thoughts that no one would want to admit.

If it's so severe that it's causing turmoil, there are generally two ways to deal with it...don't even pray about it or face it. God knows your heart, let the thoughts work themselves out. Say them out loud freely. Let the brain work them out of the sub-concious. When you pray and they come..let them, don't fight them. The fighting them will cause a cycle that will imbed
the pattern. Work them out, talk them out freely. Openly discuss them with God, he understands..is the best way. Simply, you have to break the trigger.

 

Offline Reverend G

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Re: Unforgiveable Sin
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2008, 01:43:47 PM »
Hello Nancy.  I don't think it was Seeker who had the random thoughts , he was posting on behalf of another writer.

Yes you are right a lot of people get these thoughts though.   We can't control what we think all the time,  I would say as long as its involuntry thoughts it not even a willed action let alone a sin.

In Luke 12:9 for example it says

But he who disowns me before men will be disowned before the angels of God. 10And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

Random thoughts in the privacy of your own head are not the same as disowning  before men .  Maybe the writer doesn't feel forgiven as he hasn't even committed a minor sin!

Will be praying his mind is set to rest.

God bless.


But remember, Jesus did speak about how we have already sinned in our hearts if we lust after someone in our minds.  I have always thought that ALL sin is an abomination, yet through the grace of God, evidenced by the supreme sacrifice of Christ, all are forgiven.  This is a good thing for me, since I am by nature a fallible sinner, though much less so when I attempt to do His will.

Amie

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Re: Unforgiveable Sin
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2008, 05:24:10 PM »
I have a different perspective per the "unpardonable sin" that pretty much aligns with this article:  http://womenbeyond.com/?c=126&a=1174

In it, the reason that it is unpardonable is given. 

Just my point of view,

Amie

Offline studier

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Re: Unforgiveable Sin
« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2008, 05:14:50 AM »
I have a different perspective per the "unpardonable sin" that pretty much aligns with this article:  http://womenbeyond.com/?c=126&a=1174

In it, the reason that it is unpardonable is given. 

Just my point of view,

Amie

That is what I have believed for a long time.