Author Topic: God, wrath  (Read 6322 times)

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phidelis07

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God, wrath
« on: August 10, 2007, 11:41:06 PM »


 I believe it's in John somewhere where is says God is love. The idea of a loving God is imprinted into our minds, but when i hear of a vengeful god, and a wrathful god, I don't understand it. Can someone please explain to me how a loving god is wrathful ?

Offline claypot

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Re: God, wrath
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2007, 01:07:15 AM »
Hi phi,

What's God got to be mad about?

Claypot
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

laren

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Re: God, wrath
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2007, 01:24:41 AM »


 I believe it's in John somewhere where is says God is love. The idea of a loving God is imprinted into our minds, but when i hear of a vengeful god, and a wrathful god, I don't understand it. Can someone please explain to me how a loving god is wrathful ?

 


 Rom 1:18  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;


against ungodliness of men, not the man himself. 

Self righteousnes



Offline AbbasChild

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Re: God, wrath
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2007, 05:15:46 PM »
This piece of writing by Lorraine Day might be helpfull:

God's "Wrath"

The first problem we must address is that the translators have taken great license with the translation of various words in the Bible. "Wrath" and "anger" are no exceptions.

In the New Testament, two Greek words are both translated "wrath." They are orge (#3709 in Strong's Concordance) which means desire, or violent passion and thumos (#2372) which means passion, breathing hard, or fury.

The translations in the Old Testament are much more varied. Each number on the right in the list below is for a different Hebrew word. But they ALL are translated "wrath." The Hebrew language is very precise. Each word has a specifically different meaning. This shows that the translators arbitrarily chose to translate all of these different words as "wrath." But they do NOT all mean wrath

The Hebrew word aph (#639) means rapid breathing in passion.

Chemah (#2534) is defined as hot with passion

Ebrah (#5678) means outburst of passion

Qetseph (#7110) means, literally, a splinter or "chipped off". Freely translated it means to be displeased, to fret or possibly to burst out.

Kaac (#3707) - to be grieved or sorrowful, to be troubled.

All these words have specific meanings which denote a passionate displeasure or a sorrowful troubled spirit, yet they are ALL translated "wrath." This, of course, makes God appear violent, frightening and vengeful, apparently the way the translators chose to present God to the world, a "ferocious" God that agrees with their own theology. A more accurate translation is that God is passionately sorrowful or troubled.


God, Himself, Defines His "Wrath."

Human beings define wrath as "intense anger, rage fury, vengeance" according to Webster's New World Dictionary. But God defines His wrath in a totally different way.

Look at Romans 1:18: "For the wrath (Greek word orge) of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold (suppress) the truth in unrighteousness." Then verses 24, 26 and 28 tell us how God demonstrates His wrath:

Verse 24: "Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves."

Verse 26: "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections; for even their women did change (exchange) the natural use into (for) that which is against nature."

Verse 28: "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate (debased) mind, to do those things which are not convenient (fitting)."

So we see that God's wrath is just giving us up to our own sinful ways to reap what we have sown. He doesn't punish us. He doesn't harm us in any way. He just let's us go the way we have chosen. We then punish ourselves by our wrong decisions.

God has given us the 10 Commandments as a guide for our life. He says that if we obey them, our lives will be easier and happier. If we don't obey them, our lives will be harder and more sorrowful - - - NOT because He's going to punish us, but because the natural result of our actions and behavior will bring us sorrow and pain.

When our children were young, we warned them not to play in the street. We didn't say, "If you play in the street, I'll kill you." No, we said "I love you and I don't want to see you hurt. If you play in the street, you might be injured or killed."

It's the same with God. He says, "I love you and I want your life to be happy and healthy. If you don't obey the guidelines I have given you, I won't punish you, but you will punish yourselves by bringing on yourselves the results of your behavior. You will reap what you have sown."

So we can understand that God's wrath is totally different from man's wrath
It is much more possible for the sun to give out darkness than for God to do or be, or give out anything but Blessing and Goodness.- William Law

Man can certainly flee from God... but he cannot escape him. He can certainly hate God and be hateful to God, but he cannot change into its opposite the eternal love of God which triumphs even in his hate. --Karl Barth

Offline Redlettervoice

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Re: God, wrath
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2007, 08:37:54 PM »


The "wrath" of man, the remainder of it, God's Word says He will restrain!  It also says

that the "wrath" of "Man" worketh NOT the Righteousness of God. 

But many times, "man" thinks it does!

And I assure you "death" is an enemy to be overcome! And by that, I am not talking "casket" .....I am
talking the 'spirit' of this world.........it is to be overcome by the Spirit of God in us.


Jesus paid the penalty and nailed  the law of sin and death, to the tree, and replaced it with the "wrath" of
God, which wrath is against our "enemies" instead of us.

In the book of Revelation, the word "wrath" means "orgy" and I sort of get this impression in myself
of God saying "It is enough!" They've suffered enough!  When Elijah was hiding in the cave, running from Jezebel, that
sort of thing......God moved him on up higher.....they even wondered where he was! ha

I believe it more today than I did yesterday and I expect that all His words are gonna make us believe
it even more and more!
To HIM be all the glory!

vagabond

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Re: God, wrath
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2007, 01:34:13 AM »
Romans 12:19
Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.


"Vengeance is mine saith the Lord"

That's the title of a song written by a woman who's child was gang raped.

Can you imagine the anger this woman had when these men got off with a mere slap on the wrist?

She was so angry that she declared, "they won't get away with it, God will punish them". Her husband quietly asked her, "and how do you suppose that God will do that?"
"They will have daughters one day and they'll be raped!" She raged.
"So now you think God would have little girls raped?" He asked.
The woman, a God fearing christian just stood and stared at him. Knowing the answer, but not wanting to admit defeat. She stormed out of the house got in her car and started driving. At first she just drove and cried, but the words of her husband kept ringing through her ears.
Talking to her husband later, after she had collected her emotions, she asked him how God would repay.
He told her, the worse thing God could do to the demonic spirits that drove them men to rape a little girl was to show his love and grace and convert the men into christians.
A few days later she wrote these words in a song:
Vengeance is mine saith the Lord, I will repay saith the Lord, with my love, my mercy and grace.

Offline hopeful

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Re: God, wrath
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2007, 01:52:41 AM »
Romans 12:19

A few days later she wrote these words in a song:
Vengeance is mine saith the Lord, I will repay saith the Lord, with my love, my mercy and grace.


Wow.   :gsigh:
You're welcome to visit http://toknowhimmore.blogspot.com/

Offline Dallas

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Re: God, wrath
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2007, 12:45:02 AM »
Simply put, as was stated before, wrath is a horrible transliteration.

In fact the movie, The Passion of The Christ is the litteral rendering of the greek wrath of God.

Wrath's, in my opinion, best transliteration would be, "the fiery emotion", and then contected to whom is the noun.

The wrath of God is God's fiery passion, it is what God is excited about, it's what He is engaged in.

Rom 1:18  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

For the fiery passion of God is revealed from heaven, when it encounters the ungodliness of men, who are suppresing the truth of what God has put in them, His own fiery passion to bring about the revelation of Jesus, His own Love.

For most people that tares them apart. the presence of God destroys the death that is in man yet man resists and unrighteousness is displayed as men fight the goodnews of the Holy Ghost in them.

Offline Taffy

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Re: God, wrath
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2007, 01:24:40 AM »
Hi

Got  a go down the lines of Dallas here...

The wrath of God is ON the Children of Disobedience...so it be interesting to whats Disobedience?

For mine its those who HOLD the TRUTH in Unrighteousness...those who had a form of TRUTH in the law

and that can ONLY be the Jews who clung to IT

Rom 4:14  For if they which are of the law [be] heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:


 Rom 4:15  Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, [there is] no transgression.


 Rom 4:16  Therefore [it is] of faith, that [it might be] by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,


 Eph 5:6  Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.


 Eph 5:7  Be not ye therefore partakers with them.


 Eph 5:8  For ye were sometimes darkness, but now [are ye] light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

 Eph 5:9  (For the fruit of the Spirit [is] in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)


For mine The wrath of God is Not the Bogey Man....

of Course VENGEANCE is the THATOF OUR LORD..itS HE and ONLY HE who can UNLOCK the Blindness..PURIFYING THE MIND.

2 TH1:8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

for mine GODS judgement is NOW...and its GOOD

Blessings
Taffy











« Last Edit: August 24, 2007, 01:36:35 AM by Taffy »
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

laren

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Re: God, wrath
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2007, 02:03:10 AM »
Hi

The wrath of God is ON the Children of Disobedience...so it be interesting to whats Disobedience?

For mine its those who HOLD the TRUTH in Unrighteousness...those who had a form of TRUTH in the law

and that can ONLY be the Jews who clung to IT

Blessings
Taffy


Hi Graham, your above statements confuse me some, you say

For mine its those who HOLD the TRUTH in Unrighteousness...those who had a form of TRUTH in the law

and that can ONLY be the Jews who clung to IT


But yet, the other day I asked you this:  "Wondering, do you see the law as still in force today, or do you see that system as having been destroyed? 

Can we put ourselves under the law now??  Or do many try to put themselves under the law, even though that system was done away with??

hope this makes sense

Laren"

then your reply was

Hi Laren.
yes I see the law in force yesterday, today and  tomorrow..but it for those STILL under it , The laws PURPOSE is to LEAD people to Christ ,I see many churches in the World still mix the two Covenants old wine with New , Babes if you will .


Can you explain why in the first part, you say "that can only be the jews", yet you say the law is still in effect, and I'm assuming you mean people still cling to it, and therefor the wrath of God is upon them???

thanks

Laren
« Last Edit: August 24, 2007, 09:49:37 AM by SeekerSA »

Offline Taffy

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Re: God, wrath
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2007, 02:17:39 AM »
Hi

The wrath of God is ON the Children of Disobedience...so it be interesting to whats Disobedience?

For mine its those who HOLD the TRUTH in Unrighteousness...those who had a form of TRUTH in the law

and that can ONLY be the Jews who clung to IT

Blessings
Taffy


Hi Graham, your above statements confuse me some, you say

For mine its those who HOLD the TRUTH in Unrighteousness...those who had a form of TRUTH in the law

and that can ONLY be the Jews who clung to IT


But yet, the other day I asked you this:  "Wondering, do you see the law as still in force today, or do you see that system as having been destroyed? 

Can we put ourselves under the law now??  Or do many try to put themselves under the law, even though that system was done away with??

hope this makes sense

Laren"

then your reply was

Hi Laren.
yes I see the law in force yesterday, today and  tomorrow..but it for those STILL under it , The laws PURPOSE is to LEAD people to Christ ,I see many churches in the World still mix the two Covenants old wine with New , Babes if you will .


Can you explain why in the first part, you say "that can only be the jews", yet you say the law is still in effect, and I'm assuming you mean people still cling to it, and therefor the wrath of God is upon them???

thanks

Laren

Hi Bro No worries..For mine ALL are Under LAW,if you will ,awaiting Judgement...

BUT as For those who CLING to it for rightouessness,which we understand to be UN righteousness , Scripture shows the examples as with the Pharisees where HIS wrath lies...

I see life as a course..BORN...knowing it or not we all born UNDER LAW , we then pass to throu LAW, moving from a One to another..unto faith and Christ,..

The examples we see within scripture are for those who remain in the physical,and REFUSE to see the TRUTH..I see Gods wrath has his PASSION for them to move on......

Both old and NEW covenants bear witness to each OTHER.. simply put..its Just Gods Way

Hope this makes sense bro..if not let me know

Blessings
Taffy 
« Last Edit: August 24, 2007, 09:50:37 AM by SeekerSA »
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Redlettervoice

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Re: God, wrath
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2007, 02:02:21 PM »



Laren, we can put ourselves under the law for a law abiding society, but we cannot put ourselves
under the law "for RIGHTEOUSNESS" as pertains to "salvation."  Neither do we judge one that has '
broken those laws "for his salvation" for if ONE point was broken, scriptures say all is., that is why it says "judge not that ye be not judged" ........therefore
as for "salvation" we all meet on equal ground. 

I believe that is what it means when it says "if I build again those things I destroyed" "I make myself
a "transgressor."  That it is going back "under the law" FOR our SALVATION, rather than giving HIM
ALL the glory!  For others, as well as myself........God got these two laws working, law of sin and death
and law of life and the law of life is what sets us FREE...............slowly, it seems, but it is for the
second man......eventually going to swallow up ......does that make sense?
Seems it takes the forming of PERFECT LOVE to bring this all about.........