Author Topic: The Hell Thread  (Read 13451 times)

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Online WhiteWings

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Re: The Hell Thread
« Reply #50 on: April 01, 2009, 07:33:04 AM »
Legoman,

You are right about Gehenna. And IMO partly right about Tartarus.
Indeed Tartarus is translated as hell; but it's never linked to the faith of humans. Only the most wicked of the angels. Not that is really matters (in this discussion).

Quote
Either we do it now in this life (judged in this life), or do it later in the lake of fire (judged in the lake of fire).  One way or another we are judged into righteousness (Isaiah 26:9).
So LoF is an afterlife version of Gehenna? If your answer is yes then I don't understand how.
When I read about LoF I see it as sort of punishment but mostly a way to come to spiritual understanding.
So LoF has a teaching effect. Something I can't say of Gehenna. People cast in Gehenna usally got killed/executed. The majority of them died in a state hate. So I see no teaching.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2009, 05:42:11 PM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline legoman

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Re: The Hell Thread
« Reply #51 on: April 01, 2009, 04:17:36 PM »
Hi WW,

Yeah I haven't studied tartarus too much, I just know its used only in one verse.

This is how I see Gehenna.  Gehenna, the literal place, was a burning garbage dump, where the city threw its trash, and they burned up the bodies of criminals.  Whether the criminals were dead or alive when they were thrown in there, I'm not sure.  So it was a place to burn up the refuse, the stuff they didn't want.  It was for purging.

Jesus said it would be better if we should cast off our our offending limb or eye, instead of throwing our whole body into Gehenna fire.  Now of course Jesus was not talking about the literal valley of Gehenna, but only using it as a symbol.  A symbol for throwing away the stuff we don't want - for purging.

What did Jesus mean when he said we should cut off our hand or cut out our eye?  He is talking spiritually here - His words are spirit.  Say we have a lustful eye that likes to look at pretty women (not that far of a stretch!) - how should we deal with this sinful nature?  Cut it out!  The physical eye is not the problem - the problem is the "spiritual eye" in our heart.  Spiritually, remove the eye so we don't do that behavior anymore.

This is really talking about being judged right now in this life.  Part of what this life is about is purging the spiritual limbs that cause us to sin - we can get rid of them by judging ourselves now and with God's help we will be free from sin.  Eventually we won't do the sinful behavior if we learn how not to.  This is the learning process of Gehenna - and ultimately it won't happen for you unless God wills it.  The learning process is the purging effect that the literal Gehenna did, which is analogous to the purging we must do in our own life.

So Jesus is saying its better if we learn ourself now, rather than later in the Lake of Fire.  But either way, our sinful behavior is going to be cut out - a little bit at a time in this life - or all at once in the Lake of fire.  Perhaps it is a bit gentler to see our flaws slowly in this life, rather than have them all exposed at once in the lake of fire.  I'm not really sure.

What is the lake of fire?  IMHO it is composed of God and the body of believers who will be the chosen elect.  They will be the judges and priests that will help save the mass of unbelievers. 

JMHO, and myself, I still have a long way to go before I am done with my spiritual gehenna...


Online WhiteWings

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Re: The Hell Thread
« Reply #52 on: April 01, 2009, 05:48:56 PM »
Ok, a spiritual Gehenna.
I assume that it takes place right here, right now.
Because AFAIK the only afterlife 'fire' is LoF.

Quote
So Jesus is saying its better if we learn ourself now, rather than later in the Lake of Fire.  But either way, our sinful behavior is going to be cut out - a little bit at a time in this life - or all at once in the Lake of fire.  Perhaps it is a bit gentler to see our flaws slowly in this life, rather than have them all exposed at once in the lake of fire.  I'm not really sure.
I'm sure you are not far from the truth because Jesus repeatinly warned for severe afterlife judgement.
So I bet it won't be a process that takes a nano second.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Raggedy Anne

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Re: The Hell Thread
« Reply #53 on: April 01, 2009, 06:21:36 PM »
Legoman -

Your post makes a lot of sense to me.  The New Testament scriptures urge us to purify ourselves as He is pure.  The time we have in this world can be used wisely... to cut off those sinful limbs and pluck out those sinful eyes, etc... so that when it comes our time to pass out of the natural world, we are not hurt by the 2nd death which is the Lake of Fire.  There is a scripture that says, "Who shall dwell with the devouring fire....?"  and another that says "Our God is a consuming fire".   Also, "Flesh and blood can not inherit the Kingdom of God"....  I deduce that our ultimate destiny is to be reunited with God completely and there are many spiritual things which will be burned up in His presence.  I think while in this body of flesh, we are not able to truly see the brightness of God's glory for all that it is.  It all sounds very serious and scary, and perhaps in that sense, we should have more godly fear.   Even many devout people have become rather cavalier about spiritual purity (myself included) because this world is constantly tugging on us to become comfortable with our present circumstances.   I will grant you that I'm just thinking out loud.  I don't know exactly what it is like to 'leave this body'.  Some think of it more as a deliverance from suffering - a more heavenly experience in which we are bathed in the light of love.   I suppose we will all find out soon enough.

Peace -
Anne
Ours is not to make up anybody's mind, but to open hearts.
You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind.

NinjaWizards777

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Re: The Hell Thread
« Reply #54 on: May 11, 2009, 08:57:16 AM »
the concept of Hell is still really confusing to me. Because were talking about gehenna, sheol, tartarus, hades (and for the ET person "death")....all these different terms described as one word...Hell. but as gary amiralts poem is titled "what the hell is hell?"

is sheol a place, a "hell" where people go for a time...the dead? to be cast into the lake of fire for purification?

is "hell" in all its essence merely a state of mind here on earth as ive heard it described many times?

blah...im tired. more tomorrow

Offline sven

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Re: The Hell Thread
« Reply #55 on: May 11, 2009, 03:23:25 PM »
I see it this way:

Sheol/Hades, the realm of souls both good and evil (I'm convinced of soulsleep)
Gehenna, the valley of Hinnom, symbolic threat of a shamefull death
Tartarus (also Abyssos), prison of angelic beings
the lake of fire = second death, here ones can speculate what second death is

Offline marie glen

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Re: The Hell Thread
« Reply #56 on: February 16, 2011, 11:07:22 PM »
Psalm 21:8, 9 - "Your hand will find out all your enemies; your right hand will find out all who hate you. You will make them as a fiery furnace when-you-appear. The LORD will swallow them up in his wrath, and fire will consume them."

God does not appear until after the second resurrection and judgment day is over.

Where does it say the Book of Life is closed to the adding of any more names before the second resurrection, and closed all during the long 'day' of judgment (the long day of the examination of all things when "all the books will be opened" and "not one thing shall remain hidden that shall not be uncovered")?

The LORD's appearing - Revelation 21:1-5. The above reference is from the New Revised Standard Version, but the Young's Literal is interesting too..
 
YLT - Psalm 21:8,9 - "Thy hand cometh to all Thine enemies, Thy right hand doth find Thy haters. Thou makest them as a furnace of fire, At the time of Thy presence. Jehovah in His anger doth swallow them, And fire doth devour them."

 --- Anyone not born again at His (Jehovah/YHWH/ the LORD's)  appearing will be consumed "our God is a consuming fire" -  it's His substance.. But! His appearing is not until after the second resurrection and day of judgment.

YLT - Revelation 21

 1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth did pass away, and the sea is not any more;

 2and I, John, saw the holy city -- new Jerusalem -- coming down from God out of the heaven, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband;

 3and I heard a great voice out of the heaven, saying, `Lo, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and He will tabernacle with them, and they shall be His peoples, and God Himself shall be with them -- their God,

 4and God shall wipe away every tear from their eyes, and the death shall not be any more, nor sorrow, nor crying, nor shall there be any more pain, because the first things did go away.'

 5And He who is sitting upon the throne said, `Lo, new I make all things; and He saith to me, `Write, because these words are true and stedfast;' 
"If a stranger enters the room & all are talking in strange tongues, how will they understand?"

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