Discussions Relating to Universal Reconciliation > Judgement and Punishment

Romans 1:20 - They are without excuse (who are they?)

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WhiteWings:
(Rom 1:20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

The above verse is often used as proof that each and every indivual on earth has/had lots of chances to start believing in God before they die and get their rightfully deserved eternity in hell.

Who is "they"? Are they pagans, atheists, people of the wrong denomination, etc?
Nope, they refers to ET scholars.


(Rom 1:21) Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
(Rom 1:25) Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

The red part is the key. They are people who knew about the God of Abraham. Christians and Jews. Not pagans etc. Yeah, many muslims have heard about Father and Son but I think that's not 'knew God'.
'Knew' is a much deeper level than having heard something about a person.


(Rom 1:18) For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
(Rom 1:19) Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God has showed it to them.
(Rom 1:20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
(Rom 1:21) Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
(Rom 1:22) Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
(Rom 1:23) And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and four footed beasts, and creeping things.
(Rom 1:24) Why God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves:
(Rom 1:25) Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
(Rom 1:26) For this cause God gave them up to vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:



sheila:
hey WW,  I beleive that is bearing wittness to tokogae...only God is 'good'  and changing His image over into evil=man bearing the

  image of the corruptible about'man of sin' that sits on the throne of God and exalts himself.   Jesus called the Pharisees and sadducees

  offspring of vipers that sit on the seat of Moses...judging unrighteously[incorruptible God changed into corrupt image.]

  bearing false wittness[good-for-nothing men used as false accusors] when they put an innocent man to death.[even secular

  authorities realized there was nothing in Jesus worthy of death]

   but God used evil for the good of all that love God....

   these are those who...if a son ask for a fish..hand him a serpent........ultimately they are satan the wicked one and his works

  that remade fallen Adam into the corruptible image...liars and murders from the beginning

goodreport:
I agree "they" refers to ET Scholars...

as well as to the thousands of "religious scholars" BEFORE them

and to the thousands of "religious scholars" AFTER them...

It seems to me that Paul was referring to Adam... who was the first to "see the things that are made"    ("... from the creation of the world...")   the Greek word translated as "they" is more often translated as "him"

Rom 1:22  Professing to be wise, they became fools.    It seems to me that's what Adam did by eating the fruit...  he hearkened to the voice of his wife (Gen 3:17)   ... and well you know the rest of that story...







sheila:
 :dontknow:  maybe Adam was blind as well as naked in the garden?.it took the serpent to make Eve 'see" that the fruit of the tree was

  good for making one wise[blind guide] leading to 'dead end"?

WhiteWings:
Yeah, see.

Things get complicated. See was always so obvious. Until the OP.
The OP is eay to understand; the real problem is to determine when 'see' is (also) symblic/spiritual.
Surely both have seen the tree before. Maybe it carried fruit for the first time?

A while ago I've read an article about  the "fact" that Adam and Eve both kept their own part of the garden.
Mount Olives and Temple mount. Can't remember much about. Jewish fable? OTOH is may have deeper meaning.
IF the story is true I think Eve kept Mount Olives.

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