Discussions Relating to Universal Reconciliation > Judgement and Punishment

Romans 1:20 - They are without excuse (who are they?)

<< < (2/6) > >>

sheila:
  maybe Adam's 'first" wife[wife of the flesh was spiritually blind  Leah]  maybe Eve's first husband[Adam's flesh/blind pahrisee's because yousay you see] was blind.

  the scriptures are full of  things like..the older will serve the younger..your first father sinned against me/..etc........all with the image of the corruptible..

  and image of incorruptible.  just throwing out thoughts!

WhiteWings:
I'm trying to catch them, but you throw to high :boydance:

eaglesway:

--- Quote from: WhiteWings on September 23, 2012, 02:28:59 PM ---(Rom 1:20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

The above verse is often used as proof that each and every indivual on earth has/had lots of chances to start believing in God before they die and get their rightfully deserved eternity in hell.

Who is "they"? Are they pagans, atheists, people of the wrong denomination, etc?
Nope, they refers to ET scholars.




(Rom 1:21) Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
(Rom 1:25) Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

The red part is the key. They are people who knew about the God of Abraham. Christians and Jews. Not pagans etc. Yeah, many muslims have heard about Father and Son but I think that's not 'knew God'.
'Knew' is a much deeper level than having heard something about a person.


(Rom 1:18) For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
(Rom 1:19) Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God has showed it to them.
(Rom 1:20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
(Rom 1:21) Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
(Rom 1:22) Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
(Rom 1:23) And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and four footed beasts, and creeping things.
(Rom 1:24) Why God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves:
(Rom 1:25) Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
(Rom 1:26) For this cause God gave them up to vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

--- End quote ---

Not necessarily so, notice "From the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made"... this includes, at least possibly, the inhabitants of earth before the flood of Noah from Adam to Noah. We do not really know how God related to men in those days, but we know their wickedness was great, both in violence and perversity.

eaglesway:
For as I passed along and carefully observed your objects of worship, I came also upon an altar with this inscription, To the unknown god. Now what you are already worshiping as unknown, this I set forth to you.
The God Who produced and formed the world and all things in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in handmade shrines.
Neither is He served by human hands, as though He lacked anything, for it is He Himself Who gives life and breath and all things to all [people].
And He made from one [common origin, one source, one blood] all nations of men to settle on the face of the earth, having definitely determined [their] allotted periods of time and the fixed boundaries of their habitation (their settlements, lands, and abodes),
So that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel after Him and find Him, although He is not far from each one of us.
For in Him we live and move and have our being; as even some of your [own] poets have said, For we are also His offspring.
Since then we are God's offspring, we ought not to suppose that Deity (the Godhead) is like gold or silver or stone, [of the nature of] a representation by human art and imagination, or anything constructed or invented.every
Such [former] ages of ignorance God, it is true, ignored and allowed to pass unnoticed; but now He charges all people where to repent (to change their minds for the better and heartily to amend their ways, with abhorrence of their past sins),
Because He has fixed a day when He will judge the world righteously (justly) by a Man Whom He has destined and appointed for that task, and He has made this credible and given conviction and assurance and evidence to everyone by raising Him from the dead.

(Act 17:23-31)

IMO, The people who lived, among the Gentiles, during these "former ages of ignorance", will be judged by the secrets of their hearts on that day. Will ignorance be their excuse? No there is no excuse. Jesus, the Logos, the Creator of All, is the Light that Lights EVERYMAN THAT COMES INTO THE WORLD. The divine nature is imprinted(and always has been), as the "conscience" of EVERYMAN. Jesus did not come to judge the world, but so that the world could be made whole by Him. Those who have the gospel will be judged by it as to the motivation of their WORKS and their REWARD or lack thereof. Those who had only the law will be judged by it as to the motivation of their works and their REWARD or the lack thereof. ALL THROUGHOUT ALL TIME will be judged BY THE SECRETS OF THEIR HEARTS. It is written that the law came to MAKE SIN MORE EXCEEDINGLY SINFUL, to provoke it to the surface, as a tutor to lead us to Christ. It DOES NOT SAY their was NO CONSCIOUSNESS OF SIN before the law. Indeed we know for a fact that there was CONSCIOUSNESS OF SIN from the beginning, by the actions of Adam and Eve after the fall and by the actions of Cain after he slew his brother.

So, as we continue to read the word through the prism of JUDGMENT and interpret the word "saved" as meaning deliverance from kolassis, we might be missing that save(sozo) merely means heal, make whole, deliver- and is not focused merely on the judgment.

Actually, every thing God does involves PROGRESSIVE LEVELS OF HEALING AND DELIVERANCE, the making whole of that which was once bound in futility, namely mankind. So, I think that IT WAS TOO EARLY for Paul to be speaking STRICTLY OF JEWS AND CHRISTIANS in Romans one. I think there is a broader application of the principle he was illustrating in those verses, which, in my opinion, is more about HOW God discerns the hearts than WHO FROM WHEN He judges.

That's jus my opinion, :o), Peace out





VineBranch:

--- Quote from: WhiteWings on September 23, 2012, 02:28:59 PM ---(Rom 1:20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

--- End quote ---

I have always thought that this referred to the Jewish Priests of the time.  They were more interested in selling their little 'thingies' and souvenirs to the people, therefore the created became more important than the creator.  Aaron's golden calf may have been the first 'created' thing the Jews as a people worshipped when they assumed God wasn't enough.


--- Quote from: sheila on September 23, 2012, 09:34:18 PM --- maybe Adam's 'first" wife[wife of the flesh was spiritually blind  Leah]  maybe Eve's first husband[Adam's flesh/blind pahrisee's because yousay you see] was blind.

--- End quote ---

I thought in the myth her name was Lilith.

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page

Go to full version