Author Topic: Logical Assertions/Implications of Christianity's Hell  (Read 378 times)

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Offline Jordanwhite

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Logical Assertions/Implications of Christianity's Hell
« on: February 17, 2015, 01:33:49 AM »
Each of these are the assertions necessary, or conclusions unavoidable of belief in eternal Hell (or Hell at all). The form of notation I am using is meant to picture an imaginary tree. When those assertions or conclusions under the first assertion are marked with "1A." or "1B.", that is meant to give the idea of a branch on the same tree (assertion). With each differentiation under "1" it is only meant to signify another branch of the same thought. The other subdivisions are "1BB," and "1Bb." 1 After these comes "1BBB," and "1Bbb. This is done just to distinguish each line of thought from the other.

I offer these because I know this list is incomplete or needs more critical thought, and what better place than this forum? Feel free to edit this list and offer your thoughts. I do ask that you make your additions and alterations (as regards the list, your discussion and whatnot need not be according to my pattern lol) according to the pattern and system already set, but that's not at all a requirement (it's a free country they say). All in all (I love that phrase) I hope this starts good discussion, and can edify and build up. My reason for this list is that I'm preparing for a book I'm writing. P.S, forgive my abuse of the English language.

1. Hell assumes an immortal soul. Scripture never connected immortality with "soul." The soul is us, our being and Scripture says it dies. Immortality is only said of the spiritual body. Immortal soul is literally a self contradicting concept. Immortality is never connected with our soulish body, only with our spiritual one

1A. Physical feelings of pain apart from a body. This assumes, against Scripture, that those things which pertain to our soulish existence continue after it ceases. In fact pain is only connected with our life now as "souls." Scripture says there will be no more pain in life as immortals, no conscious torment!

1B. Christ did not suffer eternal torment. If he is meant to be our ransom/redemption from death and sin, why is he exempt from the supposed penalty and consequence of both, eternal torment? Now either his sufferings do not meet the standard necessary for Him to be satisfied by its fruit (Isaiah 53), or the wages of sin are not eternal torment/separation. It is either this or a third option: God was unwilling to place upon him the entirety of our sins, or our sins entire weight because of the eternal consequences. That would mean God's love and will was intentionally thwarted by himself. All of these options leaves one with an incapable or unwilling Savior, which is what Christianity has (see Calvinism and Arminianism).

1Aa. That would be speaking beyond what is written.

1AA. God has said that the spirit of his creations returns to him. The spirit, which is the life, leaving is why the dead "know nothing."

1Bb. This means that Christ did not meet God's requirement of everyone else if eternal Hell is true.

1BB. This also means that Christ did not defeat death since death actually means eternal Hellfire, and he is consequently defeated by sin.

1Aaa. We must be careful to stick strictly to what is known and can be known. From the beginning things have been very apparent, and Paul's revelation has made the purposes of death, judgement, and resurrection very evident.

1AAA. The spirit and the body is separated. It was only when they were brought together that Adam, the living soul, was made. If they are separate it goes to reason that we return to the state of knowing nothing, just as we return to the state of dust.

1Bbb. God's requirement for people not believing in his son (or following his law before him) is all equal punishment: unbearable pain forever, but again his Son did not meet this. This punishment works counter productive to the work of Christ in goal, nature, and function. Christ goal was to save all. The nature of the work was great sacrificial love, and doing good to those who despitefully used him. It's function is to resurrect every person to new life. He did this by dying and resurrecting, dying is said to be the penalty of sin, and life the result of Christ, both worked for all.

2. Aion as "Eternity"

3. God as a house divided

3A. States that his love, which is too all, works to a different end. What his love, which he is, wants his justice, which is what comes out of him can't accomplish.

3AA. God has to be much more than the definitions of love that we find in Scripture, or else can he be love? He's literally the fulness of all those wonderful things and some how he turns into an eternal torturer.

4. Denies the significance of the Resurrection and it's Intention

Philippians 3:21 Who will transfigure the body of our humiliation, to conform it to the body of His glory, in accord with the operation which enables Him even to subject all to Himself.

(Note: The transformation of the body into immortality is the operation which enables Christ to subject all)

4A. If the righteous could have and already do have life apart from the resurrection for what did Christ die, and for what was he roused? I mean it literally devolves into absurdity, past satisfying an incredibly wrathful God for the sake of the righteous (those who would believe, or those who were predestined and thus called to belief).

Offline marie glen

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Re: Logical Assertions/Implications of Christianity's Hell
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2015, 01:55:31 AM »
Could it be? someone openly using the formula of "where will/would such and such an idea logically lead?"

OOps! I've not read but the first couple of sentences of your post so back I go now, i just had to stop and make that comment.. :laughing7:
Atonement = "kaphar ...reconcile (-liation)" / Day of Atonement, Israel's holiest day of the yr known as annual judgment day .."priests served a copy and shadow of things to come"
 ~ And I saw the dead, small & great, stand before God & books were opened... ..The wages of sin is death. ...Only on the tenth of this seventh month is a day of atonements; ye shall afflict your souls, whoever does not afflict/torment their soul shall be cut off.. an atonement for all the people of the assembly.. ..then you shall cause the trumpet of the Jubilee to sound ...on the Day of Atonement ~ doa 4 the doa

Offline Lazarus Short

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Re: Logical Assertions/Implications of Christianity's Hell
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2015, 02:51:28 AM »
Here's a couple of logical consequences of Hell being real, off the top of my head:

If Hell is real, how can Death and Hell the Grave be thrown into the Lake of Fire?  If people are at that time dead and in Hell, the Bible is contradictory.

If Hell is real, how can God ever become All in all?

BTW, I am also writing a book - the working title is Heaven, Yes, Hell, No. See my thread here:  http://tentmaker.org/forum/hellbusters-hallow/heaven-yes-hell-no
« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 02:55:55 AM by Lazarus Short »
Socrates taught Plato.  Plato taught Aristotle.  Aristotle tutored the son of Philip of Macedon.  This boy grew up to become Alexander the Great, largely by slaughtering a lot of people.  That's philosophy.

Jesus spoke the Truth.  He blessed the poor.  He healed the sick.  He even raised the dead.  He died on a cross for us, lived again, and came back long enough to tell us to love one another.  That's religion.

Offline marie glen

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Re: Logical Assertions/Implications of Christianity's Hell
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2015, 02:57:31 AM »


1Bbb. God's requirement for people not believing in his son (or following his law before him) is all equal punishment: unbearable pain forever, but again his Son did not meet this. This punishment works counter productive to the work of Christ in goal, nature, and function. Christ goal was to save all. The nature of the work was great sacrificial love, and doing good to those who despitefully used him. It's function is to resurrect every person to new life. He did this by dying and resurrecting, dying is said to be the penalty of sin, and life the result of Christ, both worked for all.


As i was reading this.. up to here, I really could see and felt like an iron wall.. like what you were saying just could not possibly be not true.. I mean, dah, really, we're so silly.. humans that it.. If Jesus paid the price.. paid it.. and then to boot, it says right out, printed in black and white, the wages of sin is death.. which is what He paid..

 :cloud9: nice! I love ironclad truth. I mean, what other kind of truth is there? "He will rule the nations with a rod of iron" :)



2. Aion as "Eternity"

3. God as a house divided

3A. States that his love, which is too all, works to a different end. What his love, which he is, wants his justice, which is what comes out of him can't accomplish.

3AA. God has to be much more than the definitions of love that we find in Scripture, or else can he be love? He's literally the fulness of all those wonderful things and some how he turns into an eternal torturer.


 :LH:  :rolllol: I have to say I agree..



4. Denies the significance of the Resurrection and it's Intention

Philippians 3:21 Who will transfigure the body of our humiliation, to conform it to the body of His glory, in accord with the operation which enables Him even to subject all to Himself.

(Note: The transformation of the body into immortality is the operation which enables Christ to subject all)

4A. If the righteous could have and already do have life apart from the resurrection for what did Christ die, and for what was he roused? I mean it literally devolves into absurdity, past satisfying an incredibly wrathful God for the sake of the righteous (those who would believe, or those who were predestined and thus called to belief).

..absolutely.. and then it's God who chose.. "He hardens whom He will harden"!

So what would that mean? He is going to torture forever those who He assigned that role (of not believing) to? Is it the preacher in Ecclesiastes that says God made life simple but man has many inventions (has really complicated every thing)! oh man those strongholds.. those strongly held beliefs in the human psyche.. one of the topmost ones being "surely.. you won't die.." said so long ago in Eden..

I did some research, mostly in older encyclopedias, and dictionary, a little on the web, about "hell". It's actually very much a pre Christian theory. and not, as we know Hebrew.. It seems like from egypt an afterlife and place of the dead, went to Greece.. But it was in Babylon too.. Probably spread out from the tower.. I think it was Babylon actually had some fire involved..

Dante's levels of hell I read resembled something pagan written.. I don't remember from where..

Somehow, it seems difficult to pierce through the doctrine.. These are believers, you would think it wouldn't be so hard.. They are convinced that 'hell' is a teaching of the Bible and they feel they must be very loyal to that.

I also read recently, it's the Word of God that enlightens.. pierces.. I've been thinking a lot about that.. That and fruit, the "fruit of the Spirit" is our weapons :laughing7: tools..
p.s - I love the number and letter system!
Atonement = "kaphar ...reconcile (-liation)" / Day of Atonement, Israel's holiest day of the yr known as annual judgment day .."priests served a copy and shadow of things to come"
 ~ And I saw the dead, small & great, stand before God & books were opened... ..The wages of sin is death. ...Only on the tenth of this seventh month is a day of atonements; ye shall afflict your souls, whoever does not afflict/torment their soul shall be cut off.. an atonement for all the people of the assembly.. ..then you shall cause the trumpet of the Jubilee to sound ...on the Day of Atonement ~ doa 4 the doa

Offline marie glen

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Re: Logical Assertions/Implications of Christianity's Hell
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2015, 03:14:15 AM »

..."If hell is real, how could death and hell be thrown into hell?"  :Chinscratch: Well now, you do surely raise a mighty troublesome question.. :laughing7:

More and more I believe God is building guaranteed joy.. (I'm sure everyone on this forum, for instance, knows what I mean). The verses are every where.. and the logic..

Be hard for God's Kingdom to be perfect joy.. or, er, perfection! with millions of 'souls' writhing in a fiery pit somewhere.. (I can barely even write it)

It blasphemes God's Holy name and character.. every day.. And effectively keeps the good news covered..

It's gotta be hard for folks to believe such as is painted as to God's character.. Good thing we know truth triumphs (will triumph) in all ways! And in all hearts! :cloud9:
Atonement = "kaphar ...reconcile (-liation)" / Day of Atonement, Israel's holiest day of the yr known as annual judgment day .."priests served a copy and shadow of things to come"
 ~ And I saw the dead, small & great, stand before God & books were opened... ..The wages of sin is death. ...Only on the tenth of this seventh month is a day of atonements; ye shall afflict your souls, whoever does not afflict/torment their soul shall be cut off.. an atonement for all the people of the assembly.. ..then you shall cause the trumpet of the Jubilee to sound ...on the Day of Atonement ~ doa 4 the doa

Offline Lazarus Short

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Re: Logical Assertions/Implications of Christianity's Hell
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2015, 03:15:24 AM »
But it was in Babylon too.. Probably spread out from the tower.. I think it was Babylon actually had some fire involved..

Dante's levels of hell I read resembled something pagan written.. I don't remember from where..

Marie, that gets me to thinking!  :Chinscratch: First, in the Babylon of Nimrod they were building with brick, and I recall from the Book of Jasher that Abram was thrown into a brick kiln, but was delivered.  Many years later, Shadrach and company were also thrown into a brick kiln, perhaps the same one as Abram, and were also delivered.  Maybe being tossed into the kiln was a form of capital punishment in that time and place, and the idea of Hell grew from it.  Dante had himself escorted through Hell by a pagan, Roman poet, Virgil, and that was fine with the Church, which (among many other things) adorned the Vatican with pagan obelisks.  Uffda!
Socrates taught Plato.  Plato taught Aristotle.  Aristotle tutored the son of Philip of Macedon.  This boy grew up to become Alexander the Great, largely by slaughtering a lot of people.  That's philosophy.

Jesus spoke the Truth.  He blessed the poor.  He healed the sick.  He even raised the dead.  He died on a cross for us, lived again, and came back long enough to tell us to love one another.  That's religion.

Offline marie glen

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Re: Logical Assertions/Implications of Christianity's Hell
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2015, 05:34:45 AM »
But it was in Babylon too.. Probably spread out from the tower.. I think it was Babylon actually had some fire involved..

Dante's levels of hell I read resembled something pagan written.. I don't remember from where..

Marie, that gets me to thinking!  :Chinscratch: First, in the Babylon of Nimrod they were building with brick, and I recall from the Book of Jasher that Abram was thrown into a brick kiln, but was delivered.  Many years later, Shadrach and company were also thrown into a brick kiln, perhaps the same one as Abram, and were also delivered.  Maybe being tossed into the kiln was a form of capital punishment in that time and place, and the idea of Hell grew from it.  Dante had himself escorted through Hell by a pagan, Roman poet, Virgil, and that was fine with the Church, which (among many other things) adorned the Vatican with pagan obelisks.  Uffda!

 :Chinscratch: like fuzzy memories passed on as legends / mythology..
Atonement = "kaphar ...reconcile (-liation)" / Day of Atonement, Israel's holiest day of the yr known as annual judgment day .."priests served a copy and shadow of things to come"
 ~ And I saw the dead, small & great, stand before God & books were opened... ..The wages of sin is death. ...Only on the tenth of this seventh month is a day of atonements; ye shall afflict your souls, whoever does not afflict/torment their soul shall be cut off.. an atonement for all the people of the assembly.. ..then you shall cause the trumpet of the Jubilee to sound ...on the Day of Atonement ~ doa 4 the doa

Offline Jordanwhite

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Re: Logical Assertions/Implications of Christianity's Hell
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2015, 07:07:20 AM »
Lazarus, I will check out that link, maybe I can be of some service. And great additions I must add (catholic that play on words). I had begun to think that no one would reply to this post, but those who were meant to did (thank God). I recall reading that in Jasher as well, whether or not it is true is not for me to say, but it does correspond to Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego (Idk if this are spelled right).

Thank you Marie Glen! It's really just grasping the infinitely valuable truth of God's Word in a very finite way, but that is what we call logic (the limits of our reason in light of Creation/Order). I was finding the same things in encyclopedias. It is worthy to note that both those who firstly and enduringly populated Babylonia and Ethiopia (southern Egypt, known by the name of Ham's son Cush) were from the same man, Cush. Maybe the family relation helped in the spreading of that particular brand of lie we call "Hell." It makes sense that since Egypt holds some of our most ancient records, that they would be the ones that we could see recorded the lie the earliest, whether or not it originated there.

The number and letter system seemed like the only way to make sense of all the points, plus the visual image of a "logic tree" helps a lot. It is hard to pierce through the doctrine, both in belief and in comprehension. It seems beyond the domain of sober consideration; it is thought to make men sober, but in my experience it does the exact opposite: it makes them hardened or insane. I recall I verse in Isaiah 53 that talks about Christ satisfaction from his sufferings. The question is will the purpose of his suffering ever be satisfied? How dare we say otherwise!

"From the toil of His soul He shall see light, And He shall be satisfied by His knowledge; My righteous Servant shall justify many, And with their depravities He Himself shall be burdened. Therefore I shall apportion to Him iamong the many, And with the staunch shall He apportion the spoils, Inasmuch as He empties out His soul to death, And with transgressors is He counted; He Himself bears the sin of many, And for transgressors shall He cmake intercession."

Marie Glen, we should be research partners.

Offline marie glen

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Re: Logical Assertions/Implications of Christianity's Hell
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2015, 04:10:50 PM »
It really is amazing isn't it? in a negative way that is, how deeply held such a totally illogical doctrine and belief could become.. so deeply entrenched.. To some the idea of hell is seen as part of the gospel message - why the apostles and Paul never warned of it would be anybody's guess!

I mean is it so hard to trace it back to what it once was as sheol?? But even sheol gets translated in some versions as 'hell'..

The only thing equal to it in absurdity is man's theory of origins, another belief that lacks support where its support is supposed to be.. but that's another topic.. yet they are like twins in the depth of the belief and lack of supporting evidence..

I'm fascinated with ancient history, I'd like to know exactly where/when the first spark of hell came about.

...."the brick kiln"... building with bricks...  :Chinscratch: (and a way for rulers to keep the people in line by threats concerning the after life, after all rulers were said to be 'gods' and, or part 'god', so nice brick kilns to keep the threat in remembrance? the human and satanic concept of  king and priest) ...I imagine that first tower was likely built of bricks.. and it was built in levels to represent the levels of initiation and so called ascension... levels going up.. perhaps there were levels (in the belief) going down..

I keep thinking also of Cain.. I don't know why... our first evidence/glimpse of false belief/religion?

..i wonder if the adversary used originally vague passed down 'memory' of the flaming sword barring the way back into Eden.. like memories/accounts/legends of the flood traveled to all the lands from Babel tower.. and also the so very ancient idea of a 'mother god' (which ?began as hazy memories of Eve? "the mother of us all")

Canaan of course ended up with some of the worst of this 'faith' with its form of baal being molech of the notorious fire sacrifices to him, and then so much later.. and far away.. the Aztecs!  :eek: with their own version of a stepped pyramid.. tho they say human sacrifice is in the history of all lands and ethnicities..

Is this what we're dealing with? here? with this idea of 'hell'..? ..human sacrifice? it sure seems like it.. how devious and nefarious that human sacrifice (as opposed to God's Holy Sacrifice once for aLL) should become a part of the "good" news! :mshock:



« Last Edit: March 18, 2015, 04:19:37 PM by marie glen »
Atonement = "kaphar ...reconcile (-liation)" / Day of Atonement, Israel's holiest day of the yr known as annual judgment day .."priests served a copy and shadow of things to come"
 ~ And I saw the dead, small & great, stand before God & books were opened... ..The wages of sin is death. ...Only on the tenth of this seventh month is a day of atonements; ye shall afflict your souls, whoever does not afflict/torment their soul shall be cut off.. an atonement for all the people of the assembly.. ..then you shall cause the trumpet of the Jubilee to sound ...on the Day of Atonement ~ doa 4 the doa

Offline Jordanwhite

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Re: Logical Assertions/Implications of Christianity's Hell
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2015, 06:54:56 PM »
I never thought of it like that, but I think you're on to something.

Offline marie glen

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Re: Logical Assertions/Implications of Christianity's Hell
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2015, 07:03:31 PM »
...I don't think i've thought of it before either.. it's a bit sobering to consider, I think..
Atonement = "kaphar ...reconcile (-liation)" / Day of Atonement, Israel's holiest day of the yr known as annual judgment day .."priests served a copy and shadow of things to come"
 ~ And I saw the dead, small & great, stand before God & books were opened... ..The wages of sin is death. ...Only on the tenth of this seventh month is a day of atonements; ye shall afflict your souls, whoever does not afflict/torment their soul shall be cut off.. an atonement for all the people of the assembly.. ..then you shall cause the trumpet of the Jubilee to sound ...on the Day of Atonement ~ doa 4 the doa

Offline Tom

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Re: Logical Assertions/Implications of Christianity's Hell
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2015, 07:27:57 PM »
I think it's a shame that the institution that is supposed to represent Christianity is responsible for propagating the lie of "hell" that is not "logical" if you're familiar with the truth of scripture, but Satan's most effective method of operation seems to be deception.

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Logical Assertions/Implications of Christianity's Hell
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2015, 10:04:35 PM »
The institution of the church is not the ecclesia, altho some members of the ecclesia may be wandering in its midst. They are like Israel in Babylon, or Egypt, or Assyria- Really Jews,  but not really home.

No more than the statue of something is that something.

"Come out of her, and be separate."

Organizations by their very nature solidify with alloys and impurities suspended in the midst- Babylon means,  "confusion, mixture"

Jerusalem means- "double peace"

In Babylon the soul and spirit are not divided asunder by the word of truth(Heb 4:12). The stewards do not have their "senses exercised to  know the difference". Their is contention, chaos, carnality, immaturity.

In Jerusalem there is "double peace"- peace in the spirit and the soul.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

when the spirit and the soul are separated, it is like the waters below being divided from the waters above, the image of Christ is comes forth, their is purity of heart, the works are gold silver precious stone, the fruit eternal.

We have to be rightly divided by the word before we can rightly divide the word.

Once we have been rightly divided by the "living word, the sword of the Spirit", we findourselves in Jerusalem, Free, no longer in the bondage of Babylon, dancing upon the heights of Zion.
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. www.hellisamyth.com

Offline Jordanwhite

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Re: Logical Assertions/Implications of Christianity's Hell
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2015, 04:27:26 AM »
It is sobering Marie. You're right Tom, but Christianity is a religion, a man made one with its' orthodoxy (who's in and who's out). Christ didn't come to die and found religion, but something that transcends all that pertains to this world, His Body.
Eagle, did that come off the top (of the head)? That's a lot to consider, thank you for your words

Offline marie glen

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Re: Logical Assertions/Implications of Christianity's Hell
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2015, 05:59:40 AM »
...we findourselves in Jerusalem, Free,  no longer in the bondage of Babylon, dancing upon the heights of Zion.

    :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :dsunny:
Atonement = "kaphar ...reconcile (-liation)" / Day of Atonement, Israel's holiest day of the yr known as annual judgment day .."priests served a copy and shadow of things to come"
 ~ And I saw the dead, small & great, stand before God & books were opened... ..The wages of sin is death. ...Only on the tenth of this seventh month is a day of atonements; ye shall afflict your souls, whoever does not afflict/torment their soul shall be cut off.. an atonement for all the people of the assembly.. ..then you shall cause the trumpet of the Jubilee to sound ...on the Day of Atonement ~ doa 4 the doa

Offline Tom

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Re: Logical Assertions/Implications of Christianity's Hell
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2015, 08:00:56 PM »
I think the worldly institution is the counterfeit of the ecclesia based on deception supported by forgery in the translation of scripture. I think the word "Christianity" is misunderstood by most people to be that institution which I don't think is true Christianity. That's why, when someone wants to know if I'm a Christian, I always have to explain that I don't follow the doctrine of Roman Catholicism or Protestantism. I don't even have the same understanding of what most people call "born again." I think, when Christ spoke to Nicodemus (John 3:7), he was referring to Israel being spiritually regenerated when Christ comes back (Matthew 19:28), but I don't want to start any trouble here because that seems to always cause some disagreement about just exactly what Israel is. I just consider myself to be a believer who is a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 6:15). I rarely call myself a Christian because most people associate that with the institution of orthodox theology. I believe the Hebrew and Greek scriptures are the inspired written word of God, but I have a different understanding of several things in scripture than it seems the majority of people do. I also don't read the King James Version anymore and haven't for many years because I think a more accurate translation is available. I understand that everybody has their own favorite translation of scripture and their own interpretation of scripture. I'm willing to say what I believe and why, but I'm not interested in debating Covenant Theology vs. Dispensationalism. I believe in universal reconciliation because I think it is the simple truth of scripture (Colossians 1:20). The same goes for the salvation of all mankind (1 Timothy 4:10). I also believe God's ultimate plan is to be all in all (1 Corinthians 15:28), not to torture the majority of mankind in fire forever or even one day because I believe those cast into the lake of fire will be dead and therefore know nothing (Ecclesiastes 9:5) because the lake of fire is the second death (Revelation 20:14). I know some people don't think that's literal though. I also know Gehenna is a real place, a ravine just outside the wall of Jerusalem, not hell, as it was intentionally mistranslated twelve times in the Douay-Rheims Catholic Version and the King James Version (Matthew 5:22,29 & 30, 10:28, 18:9, 23:15 & 33; Mark 9:43,45 & 47; Luke 12:5 & James 3:6). I'm open minded and willing to change what I believe if I see some information that is convincing, but, since I reluctantly began to believe universal reconciliation years ago, I haven't seen anything but nonsense used to refute it. I think the tradition of man has invalidated the word of God through the institution that masquerades as Christianity, and I found out that many people trapped by it are just as hateful as atheists when you share the truth with them. I think God reveals the truth to all of us when it's the right time to do so according to God's will. Some are blind to the truth because they haven't been given faith, and I believe they will be saved from death at the consummation of the eons because scripture says so (1 Corinthians 15:20-28). But that doesn't mean I think those who don't believe the truth of universal reconciliation are not in the body of Christ because I think people can believe the evangel without fully understanding it.   
« Last Edit: March 19, 2015, 08:46:36 PM by Tom »