Author Topic: Judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah  (Read 266 times)

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Offline gregoryfl

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Judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah
« on: June 28, 2015, 01:32:08 PM »
Unlike translations, the Hebrew text is broken into various parshiot, which are selected readings of the text. There are two types:

P'tuchot, which are large groups of thought divided by the beginning of a new line, and
Stumot, which are shorter groups of thought divided by at least 9 blank spaces between words.

Unlike the English paragraph breaks, these two breaks in a torah scroll serve a bit of a different purpose, and help the reader to find themes that otherwise might not be easily seen. One such example is in the Parsha called Wayeira (And he did appear). It starts at Genesis 18:1 and ends at 22:24.

The first Parsha division is from Genesis 18:1-19:38. This happens to be a very long parsha, containing two stories: one concerning Abraham and Sarah, and the other concerning Lot in Sodom and Gomorrah.

The fact that these two stories are contained in one parsha tells us that there is some common theme or teaching linking these together.

That common theme happens to help us understand the real reason for the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, which is recorded by Ezekiel:

Behold, this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: pride, fullness of bread, and prosperous ease was in her and in her daughters; neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.
(Eze 16:49)

According to tradition, hospitality was illegal in Sodom and Gomorrah, and punishable by death. This appears to be why, for example, while Abraham showed hospitality, he spoke of the normal order of things...

Now let a little water be fetched, wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree.
(Gen 18:4)

we find Lot doing something completely different when he showed hospitality...

and he said, "See now, my lords, please turn aside into your servant's house, stay all night, wash your feet, and you will rise up early, and go on your way." (Gen 19:2)

Lot, being afraid of the people of Sodom possibly going to his house and seeing the guests with clean feet, instead was intent on leaving their feet dirty so that he would not appear to have been showing hospitality, and possibly lose his life. This is a clue in the text verifying the truth of the tradition. Hospitality was very serious business back then.

People today, when they think of something sinful, abominable, etc, think of many things. How many times have you heard of lack of hospitality being mentioned? Not as a guilt trip or in a legalistic way, but it certainly gives me much to think about as to how I view and treat others around me. It is so easy to be so preoccupied with myself and my physical family that hospitality becomes neglected.

I personally have had opportunity to extend hospitality to two families in need, one young man and his pregnant wife that I met online on a message board who happened to live nearby that got kicked out of the mobile home park they were living in, and a few years later a single mom and daughter who lived next door to us who got evicted. On both occasions some people thought we were nuts for taking in strangers like that, but I was truly blessed by the experiences overall, as it gave me a connection to my heritage, one that has been very much lost in today's selfish world.

Ronen
« Last Edit: June 28, 2015, 01:36:10 PM by gregoryfl »

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2015, 03:38:49 PM »
Sounds good.
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline rosered

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Re: Judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2015, 05:55:01 PM »

 
 God bless you Ronen ! and you  Micah
 
 
  I thought of the foot washing   of Jesus  in John 13
 
 As "humility "and  serving one another  ,  the  teaching of Jesus   doctrine ,the WORD OF GOD     is like living waters on the feet    "the teaching of peace " and the good news  to all mankind .   AND CLEAN FEET
 you are every bit whole ,, clean because of the Word I have spoken to you     , except for your feet ,,,  JESUS  does this  himself ...
 
 romans 10


The Word Brings Salvation
…14How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed?

 How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard?

 And how will they hear without a preacher?


 15How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written,


 "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!"


16However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?"…


 
  I love that you brought out the sin of Sodom as pride  in Ezek.    amen !!   :thumbsup:
 
    There are so many examples  in the Word for our benefit ....
Jesus is the reward  !!

Offline sheila

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Re: Judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2015, 06:17:56 PM »
these things come to mind...how beautiful the feet of he that publisheth good news............

.......house to house...if ye enter a house and recieved peacefully stay there........shake the dust from your feet

  upon leaving that house which recieves ye not peaceably.

  practice hosptality..for some have entertained angels unawares in this manner.

      God has really really blessed those who practice hospitality!

Offline Tom

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Re: Judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2015, 07:09:42 PM »

"The two messengers came to Sodom in the evening, as Lot was sitting in the gateway of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he arose to meet them, and he bowed down with his brow to the earth. And he said: Behold, now, my lords, please turn in and lodge at the house of your servant and wash your feet. Then you can rise early and go on your way. Yet they said: No, for we shall lodge in the square. But he urged them so intensely that they turned in with him and entered his house. He made a feast for them and baked unleavened bread, and they ate. They had not yet lain down when the men of the city, men of Sodom that they were, surrounded the house, from youth even to old man, all the people without exception. They called out to Lot and said to him: Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them forth to us, and let us know them. So Lot went forth to them, toward the portal, and closed the door after him. He said to them: Oh do not do such evil, my brothers. Oh behold, I have two daughters who have not known a man. Oh let me bring them forth to you. Do to them as is good in your eyes. But do not do anything to these men; for on this account they have come under the shadow of my rafters. But they replied: Come close, yonder! And they added: This one came to sojourn here as an alien, yet he is judging, yea judging. Now we shall do more evil to you than to them. And they urged intensely against the man, against Lot, and they came close to break the door. Then the two men stretched out their hands and brought Lot in to them, into the house, and closed the door. As for the men who were at the portal of the house, they smote them with a dazzled perception, from the small unto the great, so they tired of finding the portal. The two men said to Lot: Do you have anyone else here? Son-in-law and your sons and daughters and all who are yours in the city, bring them forth from this place. For we are about to bring this place to ruin, because great is the outcry over them before the face of Yahweh. And Yahweh has sent us to wreck it." (Genesis 19:1-13)

"Behold, this was the depravity of Sodom, your sister: For herself and her daughters there was pomp, surfeiting with bread and quiet ease, yet she did not hold fast the hand of the humble and needy. They were haughty and committed abhorrences before Me; so I put them away just as you see." (Ezekiel 16:49,50)

"With a male you shall not lie as bedding with a woman. This is an abhorrence." (Leviticus 18:22)

I have read commentary before, by those who seem to want to minimize the sexual sin, about the "sin of Sodom" simply being failure to extend hospitality, but it seems evident by the context of the story of Lot that the epitome of their inhospitality was the desire to commit homosexual rape with strangers, which seems to obviously classify as "depravity" and one of the "abhorrences" mentioned in Ezekiel 16:49,50.

The US government has more than one law that is unjust and doesn't conform to the word of God. All US citizens should have civil rights, but marriage is more than a civil right. God created man, then woman from man, to be one flesh together and one spirit with Christ and God. Legal validation of homosexual sin is a victory for atheists and homosexuals because it invalidates the word of God. Many of us may have been guilty of heterosexual sin in our lives, but we haven't had that sin legally validated through political pressure, which seems to be the case here.

We of the nations who are the ecclesia, the body of Christ, are not subject to the law of Israel.

"For the entire law is fulfilled in one word, in this: 'You shall love your associate as yourself.'" (Galatians 5:14)

But most people seem to confuse love with desire. Even, if some people love other people of the same gender, which all believers should, that doesn't mean it's all right to act out sexual desire with people of the same gender, and just because a corrupt government justifies that doesn't mean it's no longer sin according to the word of God.

Offline rosered

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Re: Judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2015, 07:40:55 PM »

 
  Yes Tom I  get that  , thank you
  I also know they call this "GAY PRIDE"    
 
  After reading Romans 1 I can see that it lies in more   that homosexuality it is    "sexual immorality "'   and this can apply to every human being on the face of the earth..
  Divorcement ,adultery ,  multiple marriages , fornication   child molesting etc... its perversion   and sickened state of humanity   and to their shame
 
 Because of worshiping the creation more than the Creator   ......
 
 The born this way    mentality,  instead of being Born again  and new creation in Christ 

  and leave  them things behind us 

 
   This is only my opinion , but glad you brought it up    ..
 I want to say   you can love the     person  to the point of praying for their souls
 
 I have seen the outward manifestation of the inward    spiritual struggle of mankind  being they are   "spiritually perverted "in Romans 1 
 
  added to more than just the condition of sexual immorality      for me anyways .
 
 and agree what all the law must be fulfilled and not one stroke of the pen/jot/ iota    shall pass away till  all the law is fulfilled    Jesus confirms it   ..
Jesus is the reward  !!

Offline sheila

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Re: Judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2015, 07:59:02 PM »
  this is designated 'Gay Pride" month. San Fransisco is having their 'Gay PRIDE" parade today..........

        Lot was tormented of their 'filthy' conversations....blatant rebellion against God is pride and arrogance.

  note..this stranger 'Judges' us.  Jesus said ..' There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does

not accept my words;that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day"

   and as far as those in christendom that embrace this practice..Jude 4-10

      they serve as an 'EXAMPLE OF THOSE" who recieve the judgement of eternal fire. [ LOF prepared

  for satan and his demons.] These people are captive of the devil and his messengers...

   godless men who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ

   Our Sovereign and Lord.

     such are turned over to satan for the destruction of the flesh..that the spirit may be saved on the Day

  of the Lord.

   Does God hate them? No, He sent His son and 'Word' to save us from such captivity..that we not become

 ensnared of such machinations of the devil.

Offline sheila

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Re: Judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2015, 08:02:55 PM »
...the gospel being 'veiled' to them..that they not 'turn' from their sin and I heal them.

Offline sheila

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Re: Judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2015, 08:18:16 PM »
Ezekiel 16;55 and your sisters Sodom and her daughters,and Samaria,and her daughters

  will return to what they were before. and you and your daughters will return to what you were before.

  v 56  You would not even mention your sister Sodom on the day of your PRIDE.

    seems like 'Pride" always cometh before the fall......

   no flesh shall boast.

Offline rosered

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Re: Judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2015, 08:23:37 PM »
 
   Shelia ,,, :thumbsup:
 
  God help us all .. 
 romans 1 God's Wrath Against Sinful Humanity
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness,


 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.

 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful;

they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy.

32 Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.



This to me is describing the body of death  that lies against the Truth ,,

  The LAW  being  Love God first and your neighbour as yourself ...   and it is  a spiritual law    against God   as well as a moral law     /sinning against your own body
 
 I was not going to  go  here     ,,,  I am sorry if anyone is offended     
  I / we   / All  /  need Gods love mercy and grace  the same as anyone    ,   sin/error   does  stunt spiritual growth  ,      we can do nothing against the truth but for the Truth   as we undestand it .
 2Corh 13

Examine Yourselves
…7Now we pray to God that you do no wrong;


not that we ourselves may appear approved,

 but that you may do what is right, even though we may appear unapproved.


8For we can do nothing against the truth, but only for the truth.

 9For we rejoice when we ourselves are weak but you are strong;

this we also pray for, that you be made complete.…
 Living in the Spirit of Christ guidance is  what true Life means and is   
Jesus is the reward  !!

Offline jabcat

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Re: Judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2015, 09:06:28 PM »

   
 I was not going to  go  here     ,,,  I am sorry if anyone is offended     
  I / we   / All  /  need Gods love mercy and grace  the same as anyone

Nope, I believe you and multiple others are saying the "right" things about this today.  IMO, there's a truth that does offend, just as the cross is offensive to the world.  There's a truth that is Good News to the spirit (Jesus saves) and there's a truth that is hard, painful news to the flesh (there's nothing good in it, and nothing to be proud of or glory in).  The Word cuts.

I'm absolutely commanded and required to love everyone, "the sinner" (which includes me).  We all sin.  But there is sin that is so against the very basics of God's creation, that it's degradation.  So even though "sin is sin", IMO, there's some sin that should not even be spoken of (lightly reveling in? Eph. 5:12), much less paraded around about.  Even though I'm required to love the person and desire to deal with them kindly and respectfully, with God's help being as loving as I can be, I don't have to approve of the activity, attitude, laws, environment (Rom. 1 says "those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them..")  As we are to love, God loves so much more, and deals with each of us according to our sin, and He is merciful.  That's between each of us and God.   

I agree with EW, I believe America has gone beyond a point of no return except when divine intervention occurs, Jesus making all things new.  Until then, I also believe what micah said, about finding glory under the rubble of earthquakes.  i don't know what's going to happen in the meantime, but I believe God will deliver us.  It may get ugly leading up to that.  We'll find shelter underneath His wings. 
« Last Edit: June 29, 2015, 02:27:58 AM by jabcat »
Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

Offline jabcat

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Re: Judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2015, 09:16:07 PM »
After posting, I realize my response is also tied into the other ("are they accepted") thread.  I agree with Tom that there's more to the judgment of Sodom (context, connections, consequences, etc.) than exclusively hospitality.  But Ronin may just be wishing to focus on that one aspect of it for means of discussion (not to the expense of dismissing the rest - just focusing on that)? 
Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

Offline gregoryfl

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Re: Judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2015, 10:20:15 PM »
But Ronin may just be wishing to focus on that one aspect of it for means of discussion (not to the expense of dismissing the rest - just focusing on that)?
Yes Jabcat, that is what I was doing. I had originally posted much more here but decided to delete it since I think it will just cause more debate, and take away from what I was originally sharing.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2015, 10:58:44 PM by gregoryfl »

Offline rosered

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Re: Judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2015, 11:22:48 PM »



Quote
Quote from: jabcat on Today at 09:16:07 PM
But Ronin may just be wishing to focus on that one aspect of it for means of discussion (not to the expense of dismissing the rest - just focusing on that)?
Quote
Yes Jabcat, that is what I was doing. I had originally posted much more here but decided to delete it since I think it will just cause more debate, and take away from what I was originally sharing.


Oh, I am not debating dear Ronen ,
 none whatsoever .
  If you wish for me to delete them 2 posts I will 
 God bless ..
 
 
Jesus is the reward  !!

Offline jabcat

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Re: Judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2015, 11:38:25 PM »
i'm not ronen, he can respond when he gets back..:)    but i think what you posted was very good rosie.   i think ronen's just saying he's focusing on a certain thing in this particular thread, and had thought some other aspects about it but decided to just keep it more narrow...but i believe what's been said has been good..   i think he's agreeing there's much more to it as far as if it were branched out into a wider discussion  :2c:



« Last Edit: June 28, 2015, 11:41:45 PM by jabcat »
Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

Offline gregoryfl

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Re: Judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2015, 11:42:48 PM »



Quote
Quote from: jabcat on Today at 09:16:07 PM
But Ronin may just be wishing to focus on that one aspect of it for means of discussion (not to the expense of dismissing the rest - just focusing on that)?
Quote
Yes Jabcat, that is what I was doing. I had originally posted much more here but decided to delete it since I think it will just cause more debate, and take away from what I was originally sharing.


Oh, I am not debating dear Ronen ,
 none whatsoever .
  If you wish for me to delete them 2 posts I will 
 God bless ..

No, I apologize. When I said 'more debate' I was not referring to the posts you all shared. I just meant me posting something that would possibly cause more debate, as in more in the future. Lol, perhaps that is not the best way to express my thought in English. :)

Offline rosered

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Re: Judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2015, 11:51:33 PM »

 
  Thank you bros!!\
 
 For all your understanding     
 I found the post helpful Ronen

 love the fact you could  share  hospitality with    those in need ..     :HeartThrob:
Jesus is the reward  !!