Author Topic: Judged after death?  (Read 6004 times)

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Offline micah7:9

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Judged after death?
« on: September 15, 2011, 07:17:07 AM »
Are we judged after we are dead?
Clarified, for those who believe or accept the belief that when we die(dead) and go to the grave; were those souls judged before they died?

When a soul is executed for a heinous crime, and he dies dead, has he been judged or does that soul await judgement?
How many judgments are there?


Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline WhiteWings

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1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Judged after death?
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2011, 08:51:02 AM »
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Judged after death?
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2011, 09:15:50 AM »
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Judged after death?
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2011, 09:30:54 AM »
Well, I do feel better :grin: :happy3:

 Butt I just HAte that OOOOOOOOOOOOO I JuSt haTE it... :mblush: when He does that!!~! :mshock:


Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline CHB

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Re: Judged after death?
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2011, 03:28:39 PM »
 :laughing7:

CHB

Offline jabcat

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Re: Judged after death?
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2011, 08:32:20 PM »
 :bigGrin:

You'll probably get more practice at hatin' it, cause it'll probably happen again from someone else.  It's a pretty common practice on discussion forums to reference past threads that may address in great (helpful) detail, a "new" question or thread.  So keep your hater handy.   :laughing7:

Also, in those threads listed, WW had quite a bit to say about the subject.   :2c:

Carry on  :angel5:
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Judged after death?
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2011, 09:08:05 PM »
Maybe this helps:

http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/bible_verses_used_assert_not_all_will_be_saved/hebrews_927_die_then_judgment_9013.0.html
http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/bible_verses_used_assert_not_all_will_be_saved/hebrews_927_after_death_comes_judgement_9660.0.html

I Hate That! I mean I REALLY Hate that!!!!!! I mean I REally dooo HAte that!!! :eyebrow: I mean why don't have words of your own?
Why are you even doing this???
It took me a whole day to process this reply. I've never been accused of being silent before  :laughing7:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Judged after death?
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2011, 09:33:01 PM »
:bigGrin:

You'll probably get more practice at hatin' it, cause it'll probably happen again from someone else.  It's a pretty common practice on discussion forums to reference past threads that may address in great (helpful) detail, a "new" question or thread.  So keep your hater handy.   :laughing7:

Also, in those threads listed, WW had quite a bit to say about the subject.   :2c:

Carry on  :angel5:

Sorry about using the word hate, the reply was meant to one of humor I'm sure you knew that. No as i have said hes a searcher, and appreciated :bigGrin:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Judged after death?
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2011, 09:41:31 PM »
:bigGrin:

You'll probably get more practice at hatin' it, cause it'll probably happen again from someone else.  It's a pretty common practice on discussion forums to reference past threads that may address in great (helpful) detail, a "new" question or thread.  So keep your hater handy.   :laughing7:

Also, in those threads listed, WW had quite a bit to say about the subject.   :2c:

Carry on  :angel5:

Sorry about using the word hate, the reply was meant to one of humor I'm sure you knew that. No as i have said hes a searcher, and appreciated :bigGrin:

I thought it was funny   :wink:   
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Judged after death?
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2011, 09:58:08 PM »
:bigGrin:

You'll probably get more practice at hatin' it, cause it'll probably happen again from someone else.  It's a pretty common practice on discussion forums to reference past threads that may address in great (helpful) detail, a "new" question or thread.  So keep your hater handy.   :laughing7:

Also, in those threads listed, WW had quite a bit to say about the subject.   :2c:

Carry on  :angel5:

Sorry about using the word hate, the reply was meant to one of humor I'm sure you knew that. No as i have said hes a searcher, and appreciated :bigGrin:
Don't be so sure about that. I really thought it was a serious reply (although I had no clue what was so wrong about my post :winkgrin:). I asked Jabcat to ban you but he didn't take me serious either...
 :friendstu:
(no harm done buddy)
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Judged after death?
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2011, 10:16:25 PM »
Cool :cool: :ok: :happyclap:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Judged after death?
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2011, 10:32:10 PM »
Are we judged after we are dead?
Clarified, for those who believe or accept the belief that when we die(dead) and go to the grave; were those souls judged before they died?

When a soul is executed for a heinous crime, and he dies dead, has he been judged or does that soul await judgement?
How many judgments are there?

 :2c:

We see through a glass darkly. One thing I do believe tho, is that it says,

"It is given to man once to die"

Hmmm so what about the second death?

Guess the bible is contradictory huh?

"and then comes the judgment"- krisis- means "to stand before a tribunal" so, even for those of us who believe in the judgment to come, Great White Throne etc., it doesnt say

"It is given to man once to die and then be cast into hell to burn forever or be annihilated"   which is what most people "hear" in that verse

All it says is that you die once(physically, in general, not including lazarus and the woman's son that elijah saved and some others who died twice :o)- and then you will pass before the tribunal.

This tribunal is described in Romans chapter two, as occuring on "the day when God judges the secrets of men's hearts through Jesus Christ, their consciences either accusing them or excusing them"

The record God is keeping within our own conscience is all the tribunal that is needed(the books will be opened, soul and spirit will be separated, the secrets of the heart revealed- His eyes are as flames of fire and a two edged sword comes out of His mouth). For all we know it will happen, "in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye" when we die and leave this realm- we may all awaken in the same moment.... or it may occur when the earth and the sea give up there dead at the end of the millienial reign, or, since the veil will be rent and time may be no more, maybe all of those things occur simultaneously in the other-where and ever-when of time transcendent eternity.

"For we shall all appear before the judgment seat of Christ to give account for the life in the body, according to what we have done, good or evil (kakos-worthless, defiled, bad)"

Thank God that there is now no more condemnation for those who are in Jesus Christ, who walk according to the Spirit.

It is so hard for us.....headstrong and soulish as we tend to be, to leave the wood hay and stubble of our own imaginations about how much we "know"- and how bad others need to "know" that we know. That tree of knowledge just tastes soooo good to the flesh. Thus the strife and contests of words and the emptiness.This is why we will suffer loss, but no fear, the burning is only consuming all those imperfect works so that our soul and spirit may be preserved whole and intact on the Day :o)


"If any man thinks he knows anything, he knows not yet as he ought to kno"- Paul the apostle



The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Offline sheila

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Re: Judged after death?
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2011, 11:10:29 PM »
Romans 6;7

  because anyone who has died has been freed from sin. 

   Rev 14;13  Then I heard a voice from heaven say,'WRITE BLESSED ARE THE DEAD WHO DIE IN THE LORD FROM NOW ON"

     YES,SAYS THE SPIRIT,THEY WILL REST FROM THEIR LABOUR,FOR THEIR DEEDS[done in body]WILL FOLLOW THEM

    Romans 4;7,;8  Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven,whose sins are covered

   Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord  will never count against him

Offline shawn

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Re: Judged after death?
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2011, 11:24:09 PM »
Are we judged after we are dead?
Clarified, for those who believe or accept the belief that when we die(dead) and go to the grave; were those souls judged before they died?

When a soul is executed for a heinous crime, and he dies dead, has he been judged or does that soul await judgement?
How many judgments are there?

 :2c:

We see through a glass darkly. One thing I do believe tho, is that it says,

"It is given to man once to die"

Hmmm so what about the second death?

Guess the bible is contradictory huh?

"and then comes the judgment"- krisis- means "to stand before a tribunal" so, even for those of us who believe in the judgment to come, Great White Throne etc., it doesnt say

"It is given to man once to die and then be cast into hell to burn forever or be annihilated"   which is what most people "hear" in that verse

All it says is that you die once(physically, in general, not including lazarus and the woman's son that elijah saved and some others who died twice :o)- and then you will pass before the tribunal.

This tribunal is described in Romans chapter two, as occuring on "the day when God judges the secrets of men's hearts through Jesus Christ, their consciences either accusing them or excusing them"

The record God is keeping within our own conscience is all the tribunal that is needed(the books will be opened, soul and spirit will be separated, the secrets of the heart revealed- His eyes are as flames of fire and a two edged sword comes out of His mouth). For all we know it will happen, "in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye" when we die and leave this realm- we may all awaken in the same moment.... or it may occur when the earth and the sea give up there dead at the end of the millienial reign, or, since the veil will be rent and time may be no more, maybe all of those things occur simultaneously in the other-where and ever-when of time transcendent eternity.

"For we shall all appear before the judgment seat of Christ to give account for the life in the body, according to what we have done, good or evil (kakos-worthless, defiled, bad)"

Thank God that there is now no more condemnation for those who are in Jesus Christ, who walk according to the Spirit.

It is so hard for us.....headstrong and soulish as we tend to be, to leave the wood hay and stubble of our own imaginations about how much we "know"- and how bad others need to "know" that we know. That tree of knowledge just tastes soooo good to the flesh. Thus the strife and contests of words and the emptiness.This is why we will suffer loss, but no fear, the burning is only consuming all those imperfect works so that our soul and spirit may be preserved whole and intact on the Day :o)


"If any man thinks he knows anything, he knows not yet as he ought to kno"- Paul the apostle

Beautiful, I was greatly blessed by that.

Offline Nathan

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Re: Judged after death?
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2011, 12:43:46 AM »
Ever wonder if the "once to die" is pertaining more to a spiritual death rather than a physical one?  I think that's kind of been some of the arguments that come from the subject eventually.  It's given to MAN  . . .the carnal man in me once to die and then judgment. 

First, what kind of judgment are we talking about?  Didn't Jesus already take upon himself "our" judgment of destruction?  So, if it's judgment exercised upon man, "that" has already been through Christ so God's judgment is not to be something of a destructive nature of men, but perhaps his judgment is righteousness.  We are what he declares we are.  He declared Abraham righteous, do we think Abraham had to go through judgment at his death?  Is Abraham still waiting somewhere in the netherworld for the Great White Throne?  Ever wonder why it's called "WHITE" throne judgment?  Shouldn't "that" be an indication as to what type of judgment this is to be?

Okay, now the "once to die".  Is that not something that happens to the carnal man INWARDLY?  What would the judgment be that immediately follows the death of my old man?  Would it not be God's mercy, grace and forgiveness?  That's what quickens the resurrection of the anointed man in us.  The old man dies and out of the shell, like a seed that first is planted in the earth, it dies and out of it's death springs forth a life-giving nature.

Offline CHB

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Re: Judged after death?
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2011, 01:11:12 AM »
Nathan, i was thinking the same thing. Am not sure but it could be that the "once to die" is a spiritual death.

CHB

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Judged after death?
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2011, 01:48:41 AM »
Ever wonder if the "once to die" is pertaining more to a spiritual death rather than a physical one?  I think that's kind of been some of the arguments that come from the subject eventually.  It's given to MAN  . . .the carnal man in me once to die and then judgment. 

First, what kind of judgment are we talking about?  Didn't Jesus already take upon himself "our" judgment of destruction?  So, if it's judgment exercised upon man, "that" has already been through Christ so God's judgment is not to be something of a destructive nature of men, but perhaps his judgment is righteousness.  We are what he declares we are.  He declared Abraham righteous, do we think Abraham had to go through judgment at his death?  Is Abraham still waiting somewhere in the netherworld for the Great White Throne?  Ever wonder why it's called "WHITE" throne judgment?  Shouldn't "that" be an indication as to what type of judgment this is to be?

Okay, now the "once to die".  Is that not something that happens to the carnal man INWARDLY?  What would the judgment be that immediately follows the death of my old man?  Would it not be God's mercy, grace and forgiveness?  That's what quickens the resurrection of the anointed man in us.  The old man dies and out of the shell, like a seed that first is planted in the earth, it dies and out of it's death springs forth a life-giving nature.

I have considered it. I have not at this point seen it apart from a common reference to the end of life in the flesh, rather than a symbolic or metaphoric reference to spiritual death, since we are "in death in Adam" until we are "in life in Christ"- passed from death unto life, the "new birth"-entering the zoe/aionian life of the "Behold I am making all things new".Also, the context leads me to see it as related to life in the body. But perhaps the writer of Hebrews had something else in mind. I see that the prophetic metaphors run all through the instructions and the exhortations, but I rarely disregard their "on the face" meanings in order to receive the deeper message. It seems to me that both the straight forward words and the deeper views are seamlessly intertwined. I am saying all that- notjust  to make a point but to explain how I understand the scriptures, for the sake of communication and mutual understanding :o)
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

HartleyIrvinDamboiseII

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Re: Judged after death?
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2011, 02:49:31 AM »
One Judgement  then Life Eternal[/color][/size]

God's Son got all Judgement for all Mankind.  When this body goes in the grave, they are all going to eternal Life.

Lee

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Judged after death?
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2011, 03:53:26 AM »
Should the wages of sin be death and that death is a spiritual death, then Jesus' death was of nothing.

1Co 15:12  Now, if, Christ is proclaimed, that, from among the dead, he hath been raised, how say some, among you—resurrection of the dead, there is none?
1Co 15:13  But, if, resurrection of the dead, there is none, not even Christ, hath been raised;
1Co 15:14  And, if Christ, hath not been raised, void, after all, is our proclamation, void also, our faith,—
1Co 15:15  And we are found, even false-witnesses of God, because we have witnessed respecting God, that he raised the Christ,—whom he did not raise, if, indeed, after all, the dead are not raised!
1Co 15:16 For, if the dead are not raised, not even Christ, hath been raised;
1Co 15:17  And, if Christ hath not been raised, to no purpose, is your faith, yet, are ye in your sins!
1Co 15:18  Hence also, they who are fallen asleep in Christ, are lost:
1Co 15:19  If, in this life, in Christ, we have hoped—and that is all, we are, of all men, most to be pitied.
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Judged after death?
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2011, 05:17:03 AM »
Rev 20:5  and the rest of the dead did not live again till the thousand years may be finished; this is the first rising again.

Rev 14:13  And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, `Write: Happy are the dead who in the Lord are dying from this time!' `Yes, (saith the Spirit,) That they may rest from their labours--and their works do follow them!'
Rev 20:12  and I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and scrolls were opened, and another scroll was opened, which is that of the life, and the dead were judged out of the things written in the scrolls--according to their works;
Rev 20:13  and the sea did give up those dead in it, and the death and the hades did give up the dead in them, and they were judged, each one according to their works;
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Nathan

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Re: Judged after death?
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2011, 04:01:12 PM »
It's great to see you know how to copy and paste Scripture, but none of it changes anything . . .it can still be seen as spiritual death rather than physical.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Judged after death?
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2011, 05:20:09 PM »
Sure anything can be seen as something.
All verses Micah quoted reference to Jesus who was raised from a physical death.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Judged after death?
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2011, 05:22:21 PM »
Nathan, i was thinking the same thing. Am not sure but it could be that the "once to die" is a spiritual death.

CHB
What about people who are reborn and fall away later in their life? Maybe even more than once?
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Nathan

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Re: Judged after death?
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2011, 05:55:34 PM »
Are you a parent?  Ever have a child that chose to disconnect themselves from you?  Does that make them any less of a child to you?  What if this isn't about what "man" decides . . .but instead it's about what God has already decided for man???