Discussions Relating to Universal Reconciliation > Judgement and Punishment

How Much Do We Not Know?

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We've had soul sleep discussions from time to time on the boards, including recently in another ongoing thread or two.

My personal belief is, there's probably some truths somewhere in the middle that we're missing/just unable to see.  Maybe it's too big for us.  Maybe we're not ready for it.  Maybe we won't know for sure until "later".  My question is, "how much is there that we just don't know"?

Seems to me there are these basic beliefs in Christendom.

a)  Belief; we live, die, immediately go to heaven or hell for eternity.  Related issues;  somehow (usually unexplained) later on there's still a judgment, then people are REALLY put where they're going to be forever.  (they leave for awhile then go back?)

b) Belief;  we live, die, go to some sort of holding place until judgment.  Related issues;  this may be thousands of years later.  There are different levels in this place, some better, some worse - better for the Christians/good folks, worse for the non-Christians/bad folks, but still not eternal heaven or hell.  That comes later after judgment.

c) Belief;  we live, die, and stay dead knowing absolutely nothing until resurrection/judgment. Related issues;  some state the scriptures this is often based on, actually have a larger context - that they are talking about IN THIS EARTHLY REALM, having to do with activities and "knowing" in THIS life - not necessarily excluding that they could be somewhere else

d) Belief;  we live, die, and have already been judged IN THIS LIFETIME.   Related issues;  What has actually happened to bring the people to the Lord that didn't know him in this lifetime?  Simply dying?  What about the Lake of Fire, the work of God to bring mankind to Him in the 'aions', the "works destroyed and the saving of the spirit in the Day of the Lord", etc.? 

e) Belief;  we live, die, and are immediately judged upon death - different times for everyone, not all judged at the same place/time.  Related issues;  same as (d) above.

I've thought and wondered about all the above.  I've waffled/changed my POV at times (obviously, from (a) when I believed in ET).  IMO, there's more to it than ANY of these options fully entail.  I believe we're missing something, that's it may be a mixture of a couple of these.

Some related thoughts;  what I shared about my dad in this post [last paragraph] http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/judgement_and_punishment/why_is_death_feared_thing_9956.msg128234.html#msg128234;    NDEs I've read;  a statement I saw on a documentary about 9/11, where a man states (I believe his brother, killed in the horrible attacks) "said" to him, "I can't explain to you how beautiful it is here".  [Really "him" in some plane/realm?  Something posing as an angel of light?  Imagination?  I'm not sure.]

REQUEST:  Please don't just "jump" to defend your current position tooth and nail, just because as humans we can, well, get defensive. :smile:

 Do you think it's possible the question is valid, "How much do we not know"?

Just me personally, the brother who heard what he says, probably heard it... in his "heart" that emotional part of feelings[cant explain that,] there was I "think" a great and close bond. I do not disbelieve he heard what he says he heard, I just suggest that is what he felt that his brother would have said if it were to be possible to know.
This may sound abrasive, I dont mean to be that way, but I feel its all in how you have been raised or chose to understand someone close dying.

It is a good question to ponder. Thanks :bigGrin:


I personally have been considering immediate judgment, and then for unbelievers, whatever conditions one needs set to bring repentance and bowing and confessing Jesus as Lord.

But then the main thing that throws me there is, not sure where the resurrections would fit in there.

My answer to my own question;  I think there's much we don't know, and since we don't know, we can't say what all it is that we don't know.   :laughing7:

Where were you when I laid the foundations, I'm the one who stretches out the heavens.

These types of things along with the vastness of the universe, the anthropomorphic principal of the universe (the fine tuning required for sustaining life on earth, in our solar system, galaxy, etc) the amazing design of the human body, and the tiny little bit we actually understand about it, DNA , the incredible depth of complexity to the Bible, etc etc, make me realize we know jack squat.

Peter had a hard time understanding Pauls new revelation of the mystery.  Quite possibly the disciples themselves misunderstood Johns Revelation thinking it meant the immediate (by AD 70) bodily return of Jesus.

Creation was subject to futility, the mind is tainted.

A very good apologetic for UR I think.  How could we be expected to get it right (on our own) with all of the above in mind.  I don't think it matters, because we can't get it right on our own anyway, we're all exactly where we're supposed to be.  Not that we shouldn't strive for the truth, what better goal to have then to know Him face to face.

as to the question at hand again I don't think it matters, by that we won't know either way, and outside of the spacetime continuum time is irrelevant.  To us here it would pass as 10,000 years, but to the person who dies its like blinking, one blink you're here then you either go to heaven immediately, or you don't but you don't know because you've stepped outside of spacetime once you die and time is irrelevant, (or at least is no longer linear) to the people on earth time will pass, not for you.  so when the resurrection happens everyone wakes up at the same? time, and each person feels like they have only just closed their eyes like blinking. 

Thats the way I see things :happy3:

I understand this and I believe this, those who have ears to hear To Day, now are being judged. And I also understand that those who hear To Day are going through the LOF now To Day and are being judged (Gehenna fire) now and will be in the first rising again[resurrection] and they will be there to judge along with Jesus. These are called the Manifested Sons, The Overcomer, received The Prize of the High Calling, Those completing the Race.

At least that's how I understand it. I am sure that a lot of people who hear, cannot believe that they can possibly be in that wonderful group, but that is up to HIM. As for me, I will continue on this walk and hope that my pace is the pace of the race.

Bless the Lord.
Psa 100:4  Enter ye His gates with thanksgiving, His courts with praise, Give ye thanks to Him, bless ye His Name.
Psa 100:5  For good is Jehovah, to the age His kindness, And to generation and generation His faithfulness!


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