How Much Do We Not Know?

[WhiteWings]

Ian's movie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqhGRD25h2A
Interviews with Ian and other stuff: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ian+mccormack&aq=0&oq=ian+mcco

[sheila]

eaglesway comment..Holy spirit....I leave the specks of dust,for those with a log in their eye to stumble over"....and this.......

     I FELT LIKE A SPECK OF DUST BEING DRAWN UP IN A BEAM'log'? OF LIGHT.......


     there is a beam[tree] of LIGHT[spiritual tree] in the spirit that blinds us to physical sight........'I judge no man.

       AND THERE IS A  LOG[spiritual ]tree] that cause such to stumble[ye judge after the flesh]

[Molly]

I've see Ian's movie/docu. It surely is a positive one. As are many if you look beyond the heavily promoted hell NDEs. The question is; should they be accepted as anything else than a standard Hollywoord ghost movie?

There is no doubt in my mind that Ian is telling the truth.  Don't ask me why.  Maybe it's because it's similar enough to experiences I have had.  Maybe it's because I recognize God's MO.  [The voice told me to pray.  I didn't know how to pray.  Suddenly I saw the words of the Lord's prayer in front of my eyes.---wasn't that from Ian's story?  lol...if not, it's typical]  It's a long time since I heard it, but it had me jumping out of my seat.

[micah7:9]

I've see Ian's movie/docu. It surely is a positive one. As are many if you look beyond the heavily promoted hell NDEs. The question is; should they be accepted as anything else than a standard Hollywoord ghost movie?

Nope.

[WhiteWings]

I've see Ian's movie/docu. It surely is a positive one. As are many if you look beyond the heavily promoted hell NDEs. The question is; should they be accepted as anything else than a standard Hollywoord ghost movie?

Nope.

Not to argue but why not? What are your personal criteria to accept or reject an NDE?

[Molly]

"I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly." (John 10:10)

"abundantly"

G4053
περισσός
"perissos
"per-is-sos'
From G4012 (in the sense of beyond); superabundant (in quantity) or superior (in quality); by implication excessive; adverb (with G1537) violently; neuter (as noun) preeminence: - exceeding abundantly above, more abundantly, advantage, exceedingly, very highly, beyond measure, more, superfluous, vehement [-ly].


For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23).


What is superabundant life beyond measure--the life that we are freely given by Christ Jesus?


...my cup runneth over.

6Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever. [Psa 23]

[sheila]

 I am thinking about the scripture where God states....in the last days I will pour out my spirit on ALL flesh.............and I am thinking of the spirit

  interceding for those that groan..with words unuttered.

[eaglesway]

All things work together for good to those who love God and are called according to His purpose....


6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life PAST


TODAY, if you hear His voice


: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever. [/color]FUTURE   [Psa 23]

[micah7:9]

I've see Ian's movie/docu. It surely is a positive one. As are many if you look beyond the heavily promoted hell NDEs. The question is; should they be accepted as anything else than a standard Hollywoord ghost movie?

Nope.

Not to argue but why not? What are your personal criteria to accept or reject an NDE?

Do NDE's write books? Are they guests on TV? Do they make money off telling their stories? The "imaginations" of the mind of man woven with fiction and Hollywood and to make money.....I just don't buy it, perhaps He has not revealed it to me.

[Molly]

Goodness and mercy are pursuing me, hunting me down, chasing after me, and that's not my imagination.  I can't escape it, out run it, or hide from it.



Surely goodness and mercy
"shall follow" [me]
H7291
רדף
râdaph
raw-daf'
A primitive root; to run after (usually with hostile intent; figuratively (of time) gone by): - chase, put to flight, follow (after, on), hunt, (be under) persecute (-ion, -or), pursue (-r).

[micah7:9]

Goodness and mercy are pursuing me, hunting me down, chasing after me, and that's not my imagination.  I can't escape it, out run it, or hide from it.



Surely goodness and mercy
"shall follow" [me]
H7291
רדף
râdaph
raw-daf'
A primitive root; to run after (usually with hostile intent; figuratively (of time) gone by): - chase, put to flight, follow (after, on), hunt, (be under) persecute (-ion, -or), pursue (-r).

I believe you.

[PaoloNuevo]

Seriously, how much DON'T we know yet??

How do we know that the Bible is even real and true about what it says on UR and the Victorious Gospel? It's a 2000 year old text and these NDE's about heaven and hell seem real and recent...

[micah7:9]

Seriously, how much DON'T we know yet??

How do we know that the Bible is even real and true about what it says on UR and the Victorious Gospel? It's a 2000 year old text and these NDE's about heaven and hell seem real and recent...

My friend does the word FAITH come to mind?
Have you ever considered that man's imaginations have created "a heaven" and "a hell," in their minds through what man has imagined (by whatever means) what "a heaven" and "a hell" is?
The Book "23 minutes in Hell," tells us what "hell" is like. Can you find ANYWHERE in the Bible where what Bill Wiese describes about "hell," in the Bible? If so please tell me what.
Or can you find evidence of his offering in movies and books?
What does the Bible say or tell about "heaven," as to what a NDE person describes?
Or what they describe as heaven" or does it show what man has imagined what "heaven," is all about?
Or are they describing what movies and books have offered as to what "heaven" is?

[jabcat]

How do we know that the Bible is even real and true about what it says on UR and the Victorious Gospel? It's a 2000 year old text and these NDE's about heaven and hell seem real and recent...

 

My friend does the word FAITH come to mind?
Have you ever considered that man's imaginations have created "a heaven" and "a hell," in their minds through what man has imagined (by whatever means) what "a heaven" and "a hell" is?
The Book "23 minutes in Hell," tells us what "hell" is like. Can you find ANYWHERE in the Bible where what Bill Wiese describes about "hell," in the Bible? If so please tell me what.
Or can you find evidence of his offering in movies and books?
What does the Bible say or tell about "heaven," as to what a NDE person describes?
Or what they describe as heaven" or does it show what man has imagined what "heaven," is all about?
Or are they describing what movies and books have offered as to what "heaven" is?

 

[micah7:9]

Thank you my friend

[PaoloNuevo]

How do we know that the Bible is even real and true about what it says on UR and the Victorious Gospel? It's a 2000 year old text and these NDE's about heaven and hell seem real and recent...

 

My friend does the word FAITH come to mind?
Have you ever considered that man's imaginations have created "a heaven" and "a hell," in their minds through what man has imagined (by whatever means) what "a heaven" and "a hell" is?
The Book "23 minutes in Hell," tells us what "hell" is like. Can you find ANYWHERE in the Bible where what Bill Wiese describes about "hell," in the Bible? If so please tell me what.
Or can you find evidence of his offering in movies and books?
What does the Bible say or tell about "heaven," as to what a NDE person describes?
Or what they describe as heaven" or does it show what man has imagined what "heaven," is all about?
Or are they describing what movies and books have offered as to what "heaven" is?

 

 

[jabcat]

You're welcome.    

I'm personally not saying absolutely none of the NDEs are true.  What I'm saying is, I think it pays to be careful, perceptive, AND test all things against the scriptures as best we can understand with the Holy Spirit's revelation.  We see through a glass darkly, even understanding God's workings and His Words, but to say I'd trust someone's esoteric experience over the scriptures is, IMO, a pretty slippery slope.

I was wondering just a day or two ago about these NDEs - what scriptural evidence there is for them.  [I know Bro. Micah you lean more toward the interpretation of the "dead know nothing" to mean "nothing in any realm".  I understand that, many believe it that way, and I can see some of the reasons for thinking so.]  But sort of even setting that aside for a moment.  Even if one believed there is consciousness in another, spiritual realm (that "the dead know nothing scrip" has more to do with the earthly realm] - and so believe that at least some NDEs are real;  IMO, there still wouldn't be anything there that would directly contradict the scriptures.  I.e., [extreme example] say a Muslim met Muhammad in a NDE and reports back that he is truly God's only begotten son and told him just to be filled with love and say 3 prayers a day;  I'd have to conclude that's a false NDE, because it directly contradicts the scriptures.  You get the point.

I thought of Paul's experience "in the third heaven", but I don't believe he was having a NDE.  Other than that, I'm just not sure there's any Biblical evidence of these.  Anyone got anything on this?

[jabcat]

P.S.  My mother-in-law is passing from cancer.  Her doctor is a very special woman.  She visited my in-laws' home today, and told my wife that after her aunt died, God gave her a vision of her.  She said her aunt was laying in a green field, covered with lavender.  She said lavender is her favorite, and with her senses, she could smell it.  She said God showed her that her aunt was OK, and said "your mom will be too".   

[micah7:9]

Not to be cold or indifferent, but one of man's emotions is sympathy and the pain of losing a loved one and how we comfort the ones left behind. Also the one passing has their emotions which I am sure are pleasant and resting on how the have understood this moment in their life.

[Molly]

P.S.  My mother-in-law is passing from cancer.  Her doctor is a very special woman.  She visited my in-laws' home today, and told my wife that after her aunt died, God gave her a vision of her.  She said her aunt was laying in a green field, covered with lavender.  She said lavender is her favorite, and with her senses, she could smell it.  She said God showed her that her aunt was OK, and said "your mom will be too".   

Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.

--Mat 5:4

[Pierac]

How much do we not know?

1Co 13:9  For we know in part and we prophesy in part;


1Co 13:12  For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.

You know! 
Paul

[micah7:9]

Yes!

[WhiteWings]

I've see Ian's movie/docu. It surely is a positive one. As are many if you look beyond the heavily promoted hell NDEs. The question is; should they be accepted as anything else than a standard Hollywoord ghost movie?

Nope.

Not to argue but why not? What are your personal criteria to accept or reject an NDE?

Do NDE's write books? Are they guests on TV? Do they make money off telling their stories? The "imaginations" of the mind of man woven with fiction and Hollywood and to make money.....I just don't buy it, perhaps He has not revealed it to me.

The Apostles wrote books also. When, for example, Daniel had a vision (which isn't very diffrenet from an NDE) what proof did he have? Why was Daniel's vision trusted and the vision of the guy downtown rejected?
Personal thought. If all those people in the OT had truthfull visions why can't people living right now have visions? Personally I think it's 100% Biblically correct to accept that people can have truthful NDEs/visions/etc. Using the same criteria it's sure many visions are false or completly made up for monetairy gain.
Surely the most safe thing to do is reject everything that can't be completely supported by verses. That includes everything from a full scale vision to "I have a feeling that".
But again back to Daniel. One of teh great of the OT. Why was he trusted? He did mainly long range prophesies nobody could check at that time. Why was he trusted?
 

[micah7:9]

I believe Daniel was a faithful servant to the Lord. He had faith, God had given him a purpose, He would use him.

NDE's are regular folk who may or may not believe in God. NDE's who are human beings who lived their natural life with books, movies, TV, stories, and their imaginations.

I contend there is a great deal of difference.

[WhiteWings]

I'm not saying Daniel had no faith etc. My point is how did his neighbors knew?
There is no difference between Daniel and Bill Wiese. Both are normal looking men. Both claim to be honest. Both claim to believe. Etc etc.
But still "everyone" says Daniel can be trusted for a full 100%. Not so for Bill Wiesse.

I contend there is a great deal of difference.

I'm not saying that's wrong but how do you "measure" that? Color of his eyes? Shoe size? Or....???
Remember that Jesus was rejected by many people in His time. No idea about the exact numbers but Jesus was rejected by 75% of the people. Bill Wiesse is rejected by 75% of the people.
No I'm not saying Bill equals Jesus I'm just saying people always have an opinion about everyone but very often they are wrong. 75% was wrong about Jesus. Very likely 75% was wrong about Daniel. 100% minus 7 people where wrong about Noach.
Well you get the point.
I hope